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Powermatic 1170 Drill Press - PICTURE HEAVY

by Chubbz
posted 01-13-2017 02:28 AM


19 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6362 posts in 2106 days


#1 posted 01-13-2017 02:34 AM

Switch is toast. And I’m pretty sure the PO knew that it was wonky, as otherwise there is no reason to disconnect the wiring when not in use.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Chubbz

34 posts in 1151 days


#2 posted 01-13-2017 02:50 AM

Agreed it is odd to disconnect every time. Though I did watch him connect it and then flip the switch. My only thought was he no good way to keep the box on the drill. Any idea on where to get a switch. I’ve been googling but not sure what to Google

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Chubbz

34 posts in 1151 days


#3 posted 01-13-2017 02:58 AM

Never mind I found the switch. It’s an Eaton rocker switch.

View Mike_D_S's profile

Mike_D_S

424 posts in 2122 days


#4 posted 01-13-2017 04:25 AM

Ok, I’m going to make a stab at this, but hopefully somebody with one of these will chime in. I’m just using some basic common wiring assumption.

First off, judging from the switch, this machine is setup for 115V even though the label indicates it can be wired for 115V/230V.

So the plug should be a standard 3 prong plug. First off, you want to make sure you can figure out which of the wires go to the plug so you know which ones are the incoming power. You’ll need a multi-meter and check for continuity between the prongs on the plug and the wires.

Ground prong – likely connected to the machine body via the green wire that’s partially visible in the pics. Check from the prong to the case to make sure it’s grounded correctly.

Neutral line – should be the wider blade on a polarized plug or the right blade if the plug is unplugged and your looking directly at the prongs. White is conventional color for neutral wires, so check to see if that blade is connected to the short black wire running to the wire nut on the two white wires.

Hot line – smaller blade on a polarized plug or the left blade if looking directly at the plug. Check to see which wire is connected to the blade on the plug. Make sure you check all the wires, one or more of them could be connected to the plug. Put some painters tape on any wire connected to the hot blade and mark it as “hot-in”.

Now I’m guessing that you found that the white wires are connected to the plug and one (or both) of the short black wires is also connected to the plug. This should leave the two blue wires (which I suspect are the motor leads) and maybe one of the short black wires.

This is where I’m having trouble. The switch plate you have has both a switch for the motor and one for a light (but I don’t see a light on the press unless it’s built into the body somewhere?).

I would expect the hot lead from the plug to have connected to the switch and then probably the blue wire with the blade connector should also connect to the plug. The other blue wire should connect to the white wires. Throwing the main switch completes the circuit to the motor.

The blue wires being the motor wires are just a guess though, though you should be able to trace them back to the motor.

The other short black lead is either also connected to the plug hot blade or it’s not. If it’s connected to the hot lead, then there is some wiring missing which should have run to the lamp. If it’s not connected to the hot side of the plug, then there was probably a short jumper and a piggyback splitter that went from the hot line in where it connected to the switch to the light switch to provide the power and the other short black wire is the wire that went from the light switch to the light.

The piggyback would have looked something like this.

Hope this helps.
Mike

-- No honey, that's not new, I've had that forever......

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Chubbz

34 posts in 1151 days


#5 posted 01-13-2017 12:57 PM

Thanks for the feedback Mike! See below for more clarification.


First off, judging from the switch, this machine is setup for 115V even though the label indicates it can be wired for 115V/230V. – Correct

So the plug should be a standard 3 prong plug. First off, you want to make sure you can figure out which of the wires go to the plug so you know which ones are the incoming power. You ll need a multi-meter and check for continuity between the prongs on the plug and the wires. – See image below. The wires at the bottom (orientation with the photo) is coming in from the plug/power, middle are the blue wires and they are going out to the light which is located just behind the chuck, and the top wires are going out to the motor.

Ground prong – likely connected to the machine body via the green wire that s partially visible in the pics. Check from the prong to the case to make sure it s grounded correctly. – Correct

Neutral line – should be the wider blade on a polarized plug or the right blade if the plug is unplugged and your looking directly at the prongs. White is conventional color for neutral wires, so check to see if that blade is connected to the short black wire running to the wire nut on the two white wires. – Correct the short black one is connected to the two white wires with the wire nut.

Hot line – smaller blade on a polarized plug or the left blade if looking directly at the plug. Check to see which wire is connected to the blade on the plug. Make sure you check all the wires, one or more of them could be connected to the plug. Put some painters tape on any wire connected to the hot blade and mark it as “hot-in”. - I can visually trace these wires back to the plug through the top compartment where the belts are.

Now I m guessing that you found that the white wires are connected to the plug and one (or both) of the short black wires is also connected to the plug. This should leave the two blue wires (which I suspect are the motor leads) and maybe one of the short black wires. - The blue wires actually go to the light which is mounted on the body of the press.

This is where I m having trouble. The switch plate you have has both a switch for the motor and one for a light (but I don t see a light on the press unless it s built into the body somewhere?). - On the body just behind the chuck.

I would expect the hot lead from the plug to have connected to the switch and then probably the blue wire with the blade connector should also connect to the plug. The other blue wire should connect to the white wires. Throwing the main switch completes the circuit to the motor.

The blue wires being the motor wires are just a guess though, though you should be able to trace them back to the motor.

The other short black lead is either also connected to the plug hot blade or it s not. If it s connected to the hot lead, then there is some wiring missing which should have run to the lamp. If it s not connected to the hot side of the plug, then there was probably a short jumper and a piggyback splitter that went from the hot line in where it connected to the switch to the light switch to provide the power and the other short black wire is the wire that went from the light switch to the light.
- So this is the part I’m having issues with. The blue wire does have the piggy back that you posted and the short black wire does not have a clamp fitting. Instead, it has just a skinny terminal fitting? It looks to have been soldered to one of the leads on the switch. I can see a small pool on the short black wire and a small outline on one of the terminals on the switch.

The piggyback would have looked something like this.

Hope this helps.
Mike

- MikeDS

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-

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MrUnix

6362 posts in 2106 days


#6 posted 01-13-2017 01:42 PM

Wow… don’t make it harder than it has to be! Ignore the blue wires for the lamp for now. You have two sets of wire coming into where the switch goes. One from the wall (power in), the other to the motor (motor out). Both have a black hot, white neutral and a green ground. The neutrals are tied together, and the black hot is switched. Simple.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View quick's profile

quick

5 posts in 406 days


#7 posted 01-13-2017 02:06 PM

Nise drill press

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quick

5 posts in 406 days


#8 posted 01-13-2017 02:07 PM

Did Delta build a solid bench top model?

View Mike_D_S's profile

Mike_D_S

424 posts in 2122 days


#9 posted 01-13-2017 02:33 PM

@MRUnix, Well from a pic without knowing what any of the wires actually went to or every having seen the item, this is about as simple as it gets. Of course if you know right off the bat that the blue wires are the lamp wires, then the problem is greatly simplified and you’re just left with the hots and the neutrals.

But Now the Op know how to hook up the new switch and now he can wire up the light knowing that he can run the hot lead piggyback to the one blue wire to get power to the light and the other blue wire gets tied to the neutrals to complete the circuit.

-- No honey, that's not new, I've had that forever......

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MrUnix

6362 posts in 2106 days


#10 posted 01-13-2017 02:42 PM

The two black/white/green lines coming in, shown in the first set of pictures, was sufficient to recognize it was just the black hot lead being switched. The switch being a SPST along with the white neutrals being tied together was also a clue. Here is a simplified wiring diagram:

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Chubbz's profile

Chubbz

34 posts in 1151 days


#11 posted 01-13-2017 02:43 PM



Wow… don t make it harder than it has to be! Ignore the blue wires for the lamp for now. You have two sets of wire coming into where the switch goes. One from the wall (power in), the other to the motor (motor out). Both have a black hot, white neutral and a green ground. The neutrals are tied together, and the black hot is switched. Simple.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

This is what I was thinking. I hooked up the two black to the two terminals on the switch and no matter which one went where the Drill would kick on with the switch in the off or on position. So I thought of what you suggested and attempted but had a small arc flash. Possibly had the switch leg tied to the wrong black. Thought it was odd though that the drill would kick on with the switch leg not attached.

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Chubbz

34 posts in 1151 days


#12 posted 01-13-2017 02:45 PM


This is very helpful! I’ll try again tonight. Thanks for the help guys!

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Chubbz

34 posts in 1151 days


#13 posted 01-14-2017 01:17 AM

If I follow what you are


Wow… don t make it harder than it has to be! Ignore the blue wires for the lamp for now. You have two sets of wire coming into where the switch goes. One from the wall (power in), the other to the motor (motor out). Both have a black hot, white neutral and a green ground. The neutrals are tied together, and the black hot is switched. Simple.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

If I follow your thoughts, I’m connecting the short black (connected to the two whites) to the black that goes out to the motor on the same terminal of switch. Then the power in black goes to the other terminal by itself. In this configuration is how it arc flashed yesterday. Maybe I had the terminals on the switch flipped?

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Chubbz

34 posts in 1151 days


#14 posted 01-14-2017 01:39 AM

If you haven’t noticed electricity isn’t my strongest subject. I’m an engineer but mostly deal with bridges… So the short black I believe goes to the light. My limited knowledge tells me I need a black and white for something to be hooked up correctly. The short black one hooked into the motor really doesn’t make sense. Plus I can see where it might have been located on the back of the busted light switch.

Update : so I disassembled the switch because I wanted to see how it worked. Fairly simple… Put it back together thought let’s give it a a whirl and it now works. No light because the light push button is busted but I now know how that gets connected. Thanks for the help!

View Mike_D_S's profile

Mike_D_S

424 posts in 2122 days


#15 posted 01-14-2017 02:41 PM

Chubbz,

So first off, the hot (generally black) and neutral (generally white) wires should never be connected directly together in the switch wiring. For the short pieces of wire connected to other wires like the short black wire connected to the whites, you need to ignore the color and just consider it as an extension of the white wires.

I took MrUnix diagram and labeled it a little more clearly. There is one misleading thing on the diagram that doesn’t match your current setup. He shows a blue wire connecting the hot side of the main switch to the light switch. This wire might have been blue originally, but you don’t physically have this wire in your picture. Neither of your blue wires would be connected to the main switch.

For the moment, I would suggest that until you get a switch for the light, you need to safely secure the extra wires. Take electrical tape and tape around the exposed ends of the loose blue wires (for the one blue wire, I mean the short black piece connected to it) and also tape around the end of the short black wire connected to the neutral white wires. This will simplify the connections as you won’t be connecting these to anything to get the drill press running.

Once you tape those three wires up, you’ll see you only have the two short black wires left and the switch only has two connections, so hook those up and you’re ready to go.

The image below has a little more detail which should help. If you want to wire the lamp, you need the following:
1. Two more female spade connectors matching the ones like on the end of the other wires.
3. The light switch.

Steps to connect the light:
1. Remove the short black wire from the blue wire. Put the orange wire nut to the side, you’ll need it in step 3.
2. Install spade connectors on both sides of that piece of black wire and set it aside.
3. Connect the blue wire without a spade connector to the short black wire that is connected to the white wires by twisting the wires together and then using the orange wire nut you took off in step 1. This completes the neutral side of the wiring so that both one side of the light and motor are both connected to the neutral coming from the wall.
4. Remove the piggyback from the end of the other blue wire and slip it onto one end of the short black wire you added spade connectors on in step 2.
5. Connect that blue wire with the spade connector to one side of the light switch.
6. Connect the end of the short black wire that doesn’t have the piggyback to the other side of the light switch.
7. Unplug the short wire “A” from the image above from the main switch. Plug the piggyback on the short black wire into the switch, then plug “A” into the piggyback.

At that point, you’ll be able to turn on the light by itself and start the machine by itself.

Mike

-- No honey, that's not new, I've had that forever......

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Chubbz

34 posts in 1151 days


#16 posted 01-14-2017 04:09 PM

Awesome Mike! Thank you!

I’m having trouble finding a push button light. Well I have found several push button switches but not sure the rating/capacity is correct. Not sure if that makes sense. The switches I’ve found are rated at different capacitys. There has to be a way to do the math that tells me what I need. The back of the current push button is busted so I can’t read it. Any thoughts?

Also, any ideas on the box/houseing for the switches? I’m not sure if any of the other powermatic switch boxes will work. I’m gonna try to call powermatic see if they can help track down some pieces.

I almost think I need to custom build a box from wood. I have some left over walnut about 1/4” thick that could work. My plan was to restore the press but no spare parts on the net.

View Mike_D_S's profile

Mike_D_S

424 posts in 2122 days


#17 posted 01-14-2017 04:55 PM

Chubbz,

First off, while the original switch was a push button, any 120 volt switch will do. This one from Radio Shack (or any SPST rocker switch rated for 120 volts) will work as well. You can go to Radio Shack (or probably any number of local hardware stores to find something like this). You don’t need this exact one as long as it only has two blades on the back and is rated for 120 volts and at least 3 amps. Also, don’t get one that is labeled “momentary”, this means that when you take your finger off it will disconnect. If it’s not specifically labeled “momentary” you should be ok.

SPST Rocker Switch

For a box, you could build one custom or you could look at getting a project enclosure. Radio shack has those as well, but you can probably find one just as easy on amazon. Basically it’ll just be a box, some will be all plastic and some may have metal lids. You can drill holes for mounting screws and cut out any openings to mount the switches, etc. It won’t be restoration quality, but will keep the wires out of the way and will look ok.

Project Enclosure example

-- No honey, that's not new, I've had that forever......

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6362 posts in 2106 days


#18 posted 01-14-2017 07:47 PM

I took MrUnix diagram and labeled it a little more clearly. There is one misleading thing on the diagram that doesn’t match your current setup. He shows a blue wire connecting the hot side of the main switch to the light switch. This wire might have been blue originally, but you don’t physically have this wire in your picture. Neither of your blue wires would be connected to the main switch.

LOL – reverse the positions of the light and switch in the diagram and all is well in the world :)
(in other words, put the switch AFTER the light, not before… electrically, it doesn’t matter)

One blue wire from the light will go to the main power switch, and it already has the proper connector:

Other blue wire goes to one side of the lamp switch, and the other side of the switch goes to neutral.
Easy Peasy.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Mike_D_S's profile

Mike_D_S

424 posts in 2122 days


#19 posted 01-14-2017 08:57 PM

Brad,

By some of the details he added in the post and his own statements, Mr Chubbz is not that familiar with electricity. You are correct that his question is easy for someone with experience dealing with electrical circuits, but it’s not easy for him.

While I agree that electrically, it doesn’t matter to the circuit whether one end of the other is switched, I feel it does matters from a safety standpoint. It is my understanding that user serviceable circuits should not be energized continuously if possible. This is to prevent the user from inadvertently closing the circuit if they make a small mistake while doing a routine task (changing a broken light bulb for example).

By wiring the light ahead of the switch, the bulb socket is continuously energized. And since we know users don’t unplug machines when they do maintenance even though they should, placing the switch ahead of the light provides some small additional level of safety for Chubbz should he make a mistake later.

So I think it would still be better for him to wire it as per the diagram as it’s a better overall solution.

Mike

-- No honey, that's not new, I've had that forever......

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