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View stefang's profile

Do we really want to become good at woodworking?

by stefang
posted 02-12-2010 01:33 AM


33 replies so far

View Drew's profile

Drew

136 posts in 1823 days


#1 posted 02-12-2010 01:41 AM

Wood cost too much to not ask questions.

-- That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.” ― Aldous Huxley

View patron's profile

patron

13146 posts in 2064 days


#2 posted 02-12-2010 01:42 AM

well , mike ,
i have been thinking of going back ,
to being a gigolo !

sometimes the stress of being an average woodworker ,
is just to much to bear !

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View rtb's profile

rtb

1099 posts in 2436 days


#3 posted 02-12-2010 01:47 AM

Hi Mike, So , whats the problem ? when we stop learning we die.

-- RTB. stray animals are just looking for love

View Jeison's profile

Jeison

947 posts in 1831 days


#4 posted 02-12-2010 01:54 AM

Look at it this way, by drawing on the knowledge of others who have already figured out some of the things you want to know, it makes more time/effort/energy available to take those lessons as building blocks and apply it to brand new ideas. Eventually you’ll come across a situation where no one has the answer and you’re the one who gets to figure it out, and then the next person can come to YOU for the answer, and then the effort THEY save can be applied to the NEXT problem, and so on.

The problem only arises when people get so used to being spoonfed answers that when they come to a roadblock instead of figuring it out for themselves, and therefore contributing to the process, they just throw their hands up and wait for someone else to do it. If everyone is waiting for someone else, nothing ever gets done.

On the topic of people interested in only bad news, I blame the tabloids for that lol. Interestingly there is an engineering maxim my dad liked that says you learn more from a failure then you do from a success.

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112535 posts in 2300 days


#5 posted 02-12-2010 01:58 AM

Hey Mike
The serious decline in mistakes is called experience now that your in you mid thirties your going to have to get over these little philosophical questions. I know you can overcome this great tendencies to brag with a little consoling. As to the risk taking you still have that,you posted here didn’t you? LOL Just having fun Mike.
I always value your input . So in all seriousness to answer you question. I just don’t know!
Hey David I’m sure you would sway all those rich beautiful woman.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View Scott Bryan's profile

Scott Bryan

27251 posts in 2545 days


#6 posted 02-12-2010 01:59 AM

Mike, I guess that woodworking is like any other lifeskill. Practice and success seem to go hand in hand up to a point and you are right about the successes seeming to be “less interesting” than the failures. With a successful build the general concensus is simply “that’s nice”. But mistakes generally seem to generate more attention.

-- Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful- Joshua Marine

View stefang's profile

stefang

13530 posts in 2057 days


#7 posted 02-12-2010 02:02 AM

Well Jei, if that’s true then that makes me a very knowledgeable woodworker! David please let me know if it goes well and you need any part time help there.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View stefang's profile

stefang

13530 posts in 2057 days


#8 posted 02-12-2010 02:06 AM

It’s too bad we don’t have a “failed project” category here on LJ. If we did I would be able to post a lot more and maybe get the recognition I deserve.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View Jeison's profile

Jeison

947 posts in 1831 days


#9 posted 02-12-2010 02:08 AM

Case in point – I know I have your tutorial on felt lining stuff favorited because I’m going to be making a jewelry armoire for my mom at some point, so that’ll save me from figuring it out on my own, and I can apply that time and frustration to screwing up some OTHER aspect of the construction, which I can then share and then the next guy can learn from that :D \o/

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

View stefang's profile

stefang

13530 posts in 2057 days


#10 posted 02-12-2010 02:23 AM

Well anyway I probably don’t have to worry too much about woodworking for awhile. My wife just had a new operation, this time to her knee and I’m taking her home from the hospital tomorrow. She never really recovered well after her hip operation last fall because of her bad knee. And she still has yet another hip operation to go. This is not easy for her and I sure wish she didn’t have to go through it. The upside is that I’m becoming a real whiz at housework. Like I told the wife the other day, heck if I knew it was this easy I might have tried it out before now. Anyway she’s probably pretty pleased about getting some payback. She richly deserves it. I will finish my hinge blog though, I hope this weekend. Actually the only housework my wife has done since last Sept. has been cooking the evening meals (self preservation) and of course doing all the brain work. Besides the housework I am in charge of transport and heavy lifting. This would probably make a lot of people happy, if they only knew! As you can see from this pitiful writing I’m not doing well without the LOML at home, so I am burdening you folks with it.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View Moron's profile

Moron

4707 posts in 2617 days


#11 posted 02-12-2010 02:32 AM

More mamsy pansy feel good, pat on the back, misguided, well intentioned let downs.

Kids. Most are ignored by their folks, the only entertainment comes form the TV, and all sit and get fat. teachers with little if any life skills,................. college instructors who have ZERO practical experience with grads who quite literally suck at this trade. Coddled kids raised by cottled parents, both generations living in a world of “entitlement”.

Videos of kids slaughtering perfectly perfect timber and folks who back them up and encourage them to do so.

I have three kids (nonof which are genetically linked to me) living under my roof. Every single one of them gets what they want for breakfast, they dine out for lunch, they dont set the table, they eat and text message during dinner and then they watch the dumbest most idiotic TV I have ever seen. They are lazy, self endulgent little bastards who have learned that their mother can, and will do it all and you know whats really bad…....compared to most kids, they arent so bad. their grades suck and they suck at sports but their mother encourages them to continue sleeping in, watching tv, she buys them pre packaged individual cheese because she knows they are too lazy to cut a slice off.

The Chinese must laugh at us, same for the germans, the swiss and its no wonder why so many nations hate us. Just keep patting people on the back, assure them they are perfect, wipe the snot from their nose and pamper their pasty butt.

I’m going to make some dust, nuff said

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Jeison's profile

Jeison

947 posts in 1831 days


#12 posted 02-12-2010 02:35 AM

aw sorry to hear bout that, burden away, always makes ME feel better lol!
Well, that and cake. I do so like cake. Cake makes everything better. Especially ice cream cake. With crunchy things in the middle. Ice cream cake solves everything. EVERYTHING
...
...
unless you’re lactose intolerant, then you’re pretty much screwed.

edit: cuts roman an extra big slice, sounds like he needs it

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

View patron's profile

patron

13146 posts in 2064 days


#13 posted 02-12-2010 02:38 AM

hope the wife is felling better , mike .

and yea , she must be proud of you for helping .

if we did have a place for mistakes ,
i would proudly join you at the podium !

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View Moron's profile

Moron

4707 posts in 2617 days


#14 posted 02-12-2010 02:47 AM

most cake sucks too, comes from a jiffy pop box where you add 2 eggs and look…........an instant pastry chef.

As much as I love “home made” cake served with real ice cream, not that store bought crap full of gasoline by-products, ethenol and a gazillion preservatives…..........I refrain.

Ya cake and ice cream works…..................it made America Fat.

chips any one????

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Mogebier's profile

Mogebier

170 posts in 1756 days


#15 posted 02-12-2010 02:48 AM

I only ask questions when I have exhausted my brain.

-- You can get more with a kind word and a 2 by 4, than you can with just a kind word.

View Jeison's profile

Jeison

947 posts in 1831 days


#16 posted 02-12-2010 02:54 AM

Well if it was GOOD for you it wouldn’t taste like pure awesome win and make me squeal in joy like a little schoolgirl, now would it? \o/

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

15024 posts in 2399 days


#17 posted 02-12-2010 03:10 AM

Mike, not sure, but I guess you guys are cheatiing me out of a lot of mistake tales. I have learned a lot here about questions I didn’t even know I had ;-)

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Jeison's profile

Jeison

947 posts in 1831 days


#18 posted 02-12-2010 03:11 AM

Aw c’mon gang. Venting is one thing, now we’re startin to go someplace nasty.

and geez if I’M trying to be the mature voice of reason you KNOW thats a bad sign.

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

View Jeison's profile

Jeison

947 posts in 1831 days


#19 posted 02-12-2010 03:13 AM

Topamax has a great point, I’ve got a scads of stuff favorited thats like “ooooohhh that trick might come in handy someday”.

-- - Jei, Rockford IL - When in doubt, spray it with WD-40 and wrap it with duct tape. The details will attend to themselves.

View Moron's profile

Moron

4707 posts in 2617 days


#20 posted 02-12-2010 03:26 AM

I raised two girls by myself. No state aid, no help. I helped them with thier school work, often till 3 and 4 in the morning. One took Judo, the other played volleyball. One now has her black belt in Judo, the other went on to win the Canadian National Volleyball Championships. One of her team mates became the womans athelete of the year in the USA.

My oldest daughter has a degree in languages, speaks cantonese, german, spanish, french and english. She also has her masters in Immigration and presently works for Amesty International as well as helping out new refugees and immigrants.

The youngest one is now attending the faculty of medicine at a Canadian University She speaks fluent spanish, english, french and mandarine. She is also an “iron man”. I could go on but I suffice to say…...they are exceptionally exceptional.

I am quite proud of the two girls I raised alone and we are still best friends.

I was also a big brother for 8 years and that young boy now plays junior A hockey and is attending the faculty of law.

I also coached competitive swimming for a decade, every morning and every night.Took in more stray kids then I can remember.

Do you have any other questions shopguryl

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Mark's profile

Mark

1787 posts in 1997 days


#21 posted 02-12-2010 03:30 AM

actually stefang when i read this it sounded very inspirational and honestly true. how do you not get a laugh, learn, or love woodwork without screwing up once in a while? sure many times it can be fustrating but you learn alot from mistakes. and if you screw up on one part you can look at it and let your mind expand to make something else with that “scrap” piece. if you screw up that puts more work on your time to get better at the second time. theres many different ideas that branch off of that topic.

-- My purpose in life: Making sawdust

View stefang's profile

stefang

13530 posts in 2057 days


#22 posted 02-12-2010 03:40 AM

I wonder if Roman knows he is ranting on the wrong thread? Oh well, we have room for everybody here. The cake sounds good, but to get cake and ice cream I would have to go shopping and I’m not about to do that voluntarily. As for being proud of me for helping, change those words to; you fill in the blanks. The problem is I am married to a turbo. When she feels ill or gets a migraine she “works it off” by doing a lot of housework. This has not been a problem until the operations began and I became her “replacement” Regardless, because of her I am a better person and becoming more productive as time goes on.

Part of this I owe to the miracle drink that I discovered on the Daily Mail newsite (U.K.). I read an article about a 50 year old woman with arthritis who got so bad she had to leave her full time job and could not play the organ at her church any longer. Somewhere she read about a woman who had the same problem and as a student nurse in the 1960’s and had to quit school in the middle of her studies. She was desperate and couldn’t get any help from the medical profession, so she apparently looked up some old home cures and found one that actually worked so well that she completed here studies and lived happily ever after (providing she took the miracle drink every day). The 50 year old did the same and she is now back on the job and playing the organ again and claims to be totally free of her arthritis. Since they published the story I suppose her amazing recovery was documented by a reporter (or not)? I have no idea.

Well, to say that I am skeptical to such stories and claims would be a gross understatement! However, the ingredients of the drink seemed to me to be completely harmless, so I thought to myself, what have I got to lose? The recipe was simple: 2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar mixed with 2 teaspoons of honey in boiling water and taken 4 times a day (sweet and sour tea). My type of arthritis is associated with psoriasis. Not a real bad psoriasis, but not very comfortable and the arthritis with not much disfiguration, but a lot of pain over the last 30 years in just about every joint, and badly damaged disks in the spine. All this makes you kind of tired and ornery. After about a week of taking this drink, my psoriasis disappeared completely and after about a month now it hasn’t returned. Coincidence? Who knows? Also my joints are still pretty stiff but the pain is 90% gone too, except for my back which nothing will help, ever. In addition I am suddenly no longer lazy! My wife is dumbfounded and probably suspects I’m my long lost twin brother or something. Maybe it’s just the sugar in the honey. I don’t know, but it good to have energy again and not feel exhausted all the time.

Am I recommending this to others? Certainly not. If I stay better for a whole year, maybe. We’ll see. The main thing is that I am re-energized for the shop and have a new lease on life, at least for now. That’s it.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View patron's profile

patron

13146 posts in 2064 days


#23 posted 02-12-2010 03:50 AM

gee , mike

thats the longest comment i’ve read of yours ,
i better start drinking this stuff too ,

in case you have anything else to say !

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View AaronK's profile

AaronK

1398 posts in 2188 days


#24 posted 02-12-2010 04:02 AM

those first several posts seemed to sum things up nicely. I will just add that my education as a woodworker began around the same time as my education as an experimental research engineer, and there are many parallels between the two (not to mention the many complementary aspects as well). LJ and its contributors is/are a fantastic research resource, and should be treated like any other – with respect, but with the realization that there are often many means to a single end and therefore always with a grain of salt.

View stefang's profile

stefang

13530 posts in 2057 days


#25 posted 02-12-2010 04:14 AM

When you say the longest comment David, that is really long. I just looked at the clock and it’s 3AM!!!! I’m usually in bed by 11 pm. Ah….the bachelor life. Just like the old days! Well folks I thank you for your company and your comments. It was all meant to be light hearted from my side, and I enjoyed the many funny comments and misdirected posts. My experience with the drink is true, though I have no proof it is the drink that is making the difference. Maybe a placebo effect? Oh, and I admit I’m totally dominated by my wife who is the best person in the world I know and only ever thinks about the welfare of others, including yours truly, and never demands anything for herself. I will be glad to get her back tomorrow just before I go nuts! Night all.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View sras's profile

sras

3911 posts in 1852 days


#26 posted 02-12-2010 04:24 AM

Mike,
To your original question, I think I still make plenty of mistakes!

-- Steve - Impatience is Expensive

View stefang's profile

stefang

13530 posts in 2057 days


#27 posted 02-12-2010 04:41 AM

I am glad to see that you are onboard Steve. Mistakes are fun, mistakes are interesting, mistakes are the spice of life, if mistakes didn’t happen naturally we would have to incorporate them into our work plans just to keep us from getting bored. Have you ever met anyone who planned their life out in detail and followed the plan to the letter? You wouldn’t have to talk to him, you could just read the plan and you would know everything he’s ever done. Interesting, Huh? Oh, and I was lying, I’m not really making less mistakes, just different ones. Who cares? I’ve got a thousands of experts at my fingertips to solve that problem.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View degoose's profile

degoose

7049 posts in 2078 days


#28 posted 02-12-2010 09:28 AM

Just a gigolo
everywhere I go
people know the part
I’m playing

Paid for every dance
selling each romance
every night some heart
betraying

There will come a day
youth will pass away
then what will they say
about me

When the end comes I know
they’ll say just a gigolo
as life goes on
without me

‘Cause I aint got nobody
nobody nobody cares for me
I’m so sad and lonely
sad and lonely sad and lonely
Won’t some sweet mama
come and take a chance with me
cause I aint so bad

Get along with me babe,
been singin love songs
All of the time
Even only be, honey only, only be
Bop bozadee bozadee bop zitty bop

I ain’t got nobody ‘cept love songs in love
Hummala bebhuhla zeebuhla boobuhla
hummala bebhuhla zeebuhla bop

I ain’t got nobody, nobody,
nobody cares for me
Nobody , nobody
I’m so sad and lonely,
sad and lonely,
sad and lonely,
Won’t some sweet mama come
and take a chance with me
cause I aint so bad

Get along with me babe,
been singin love songs
All of the time
Even only be, honey only, only be

-- Drink twice... and don't bother to cut... @ lazylarrywoodworks.com.au For lovers of all things timber...

View stefang's profile

stefang

13530 posts in 2057 days


#29 posted 02-12-2010 11:57 AM

That sounds like a good theme song Larry. See what I mean? Help just pops up when you need it if you are an LJ member.

I never thought I would be getting help from Australia up here in Norway. Cyberspace is a strange and wonderful place. I just read in New Scientist magazine that our universe might just be a hologram! I’m not really too interested though, as I can’t see how that could help me in the shop.

It is pretty amazing how knowledge gets spread on the web. I bought some lock miter bits, big and junior sizes some time back. I experimented a little with one and found out that I didn’t know enough to use them properly. I didn’t really have a project for them at the time so I just put them away. Since buying a new router I’ve been thinking maybe I could get some use out of them now. So I looked it up on the net. After looking at a zillion websites showing me how to use them and jigs to help me with that, I am now an “expert” ha ha. I even built a couple of cool jigs that I also found on the net to ensure safe and consistent results, and they work! This new-found knowledge is thanks to folks willing to share their skills and I am really grateful to them. I intend to do a blog on these so I can pass along my personal experience and observations with them, and of course show off my new jigs at the same time. The actual set-up procedures will be shown as links to the best advice I found. I hope this will help some of the many angry people out there who have paid a lot of money for these bits and haven’t been able to get the results they had expected.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View miles125's profile

miles125

2179 posts in 2729 days


#30 posted 02-12-2010 12:36 PM

Its good to ask questions and get a glimpse at how others do things. But ultimately, the best woodwork or art in general is created by the individual finding and expressing his own vision. Two heads being better than one is not always the case. Just imagine the Mona Lisa had it been created by commitee.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View rhett's profile

rhett

699 posts in 2390 days


#31 posted 02-12-2010 03:11 PM

Its only a mistake if you can’t fix it. Anything can be mastered in 10 years or 10,000 hours.

-- It's only wood.

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

2409 posts in 2161 days


#32 posted 02-12-2010 03:24 PM

Digging (or asking) for information is part of the problem solving. ‘Discovery’ doesn’t have to be an experience of doing. It can be what you discover from your research. Anyway, in the end it’s all part of the satisfaction.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View stefang's profile

stefang

13530 posts in 2057 days


#33 posted 02-12-2010 03:46 PM

I hope you all didn’t take me too seriously about what I said in the introduction of the post. I actually meant it to be a little humorous. The comments about getting and using knowledge are mostly right on and I do mostly agree with what has been said here. Everyone makes mistakes. This is a sure sign that there is either more to learn or the need for better planning and attention to detail exists. I love to learn new things all the time and I find it very rewarding when I get good results. Someone once said that the Devil is in the details, and I am a firm believer in that.Being a member of a community like this makes it a lot easier to get both information and inspiration.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

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