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View AAANDRRREW's profile

will my sprayer work for primer and trim paint?

by AAANDRRREW
posted 11-08-2016 02:51 PM


29 replies so far

View ScottM's profile

ScottM

691 posts in 2349 days


#1 posted 11-08-2016 03:43 PM

Just try it. First without thinning. If that doesn’t work, then start thinning it down a little at a time keeping track of your mixture until you get the results you want. Of course assuming that’s possible.

View Harry's profile

Harry

80 posts in 1383 days


#2 posted 11-08-2016 04:00 PM

I’ve tried using a HVLP gun with house paint and it won’t work without thinning it a lot. I was just using it for painting small items (RC aircraft) and ended up thinning with water and windex and it worked great with several coats. You need an airless to use house paint but with the trim already installed, that would take some time masking.

-- Harry - Professional amateur

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1740 posts in 3012 days


#3 posted 11-08-2016 09:38 PM

You wont be happy with prime and paint attempts

You will have somewhat of a chance if you cut the material about 50/50…but then you will need so many coats that….well just get an airless and be done with it.

Don’t expect to buy a decent finish gun for 15.00

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2134 posts in 3147 days


#4 posted 11-09-2016 02:06 AM

This is FAR from accurate. I have an Accuspray and it doesn’t need much, if any thinning at all. My four stage Capsprayer needs about a quarter cup of water in a quart and it does fine.


I ve tried using a HVLP gun with house paint and it won t work without thinning it a lot. I was just using it for painting small items (RC aircraft) and ended up thinning with water and windex and it worked great with several coats. You need an airless to use house paint but with the trim already installed, that would take some time masking.

- Harry


View Harry's profile

Harry

80 posts in 1383 days


#5 posted 11-09-2016 02:54 AM

NOPE, this is accurate for what “I” have experienced using a cheap HVLP gun.


This is FAR from accurate. I have an Accuspray and it doesn t need much, if any thinning at all. My four stage Capsprayer needs about a quarter cup of water in a quart and it does fine.

I ve tried using a HVLP gun with house paint and it won t work without thinning it a lot. I was just using it for painting small items (RC aircraft) and ended up thinning with water and windex and it worked great with several coats. You need an airless to use house paint but with the trim already installed, that would take some time masking.

- Harry

- Kelly


-- Harry - Professional amateur

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2134 posts in 3147 days


#6 posted 11-09-2016 07:07 AM

I remains it’s far from accurate, since other than cheap systems don’t have a need for extreme thinning. Shoulda/Coulda qualified that up front then. To be more specific, you should say what gun and driver you have. For example, is it a single or double stage toy, or a three stage or better.

View AAANDRRREW's profile

AAANDRRREW

210 posts in 1375 days


#7 posted 11-09-2016 01:21 PM

So, what I’m gathering is even if my gun can do this without much thinning, I may be still better off brushing or getting a better gun?

View shawnn's profile

shawnn

124 posts in 1568 days


#8 posted 11-09-2016 02:09 PM

I used this one http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/paint/professional-spray-gun-kit-93312.html to spray interior paint and Kilz primer with good results. I didn’t thin it but the next time I’m going to use about 10% Flood Penetrol. I think the spray gun nozzle size is the most critical feature for what type of liquid you’re spraying. Mine has a 1.8mm nozzle that worked good for paint, but I would need a smaller nozzle to spray thinner material.

View lndfilwiz's profile

lndfilwiz

108 posts in 1803 days


#9 posted 11-09-2016 02:36 PM

I purchased the 60600 airless spray system and have used it for exterior primer and paint. Very satisfied with the results. I belong to the Insider club and got the kit for $169. I figure it has paid for itself on this one project for the time I saved not brushing or rolling.

-- Smile, it makes people wander what you are up to.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 794 days


#10 posted 11-10-2016 02:07 PM


On the back of the Cover Stain primer it says in capital letters “DO NOT THIN” – so I’m guessing if I do thin it, it loses some of its properties. I can’t remember if the paint said the same.
- AAANDRRREW


..start thinning it down a little at a time keeping track of your mixture until you get the results you want.
- ScottM

Just keep asking advice on these forums. People will tell you that you need to thin even if the manufacturer states DO NOT THIN in large letters :-)

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ScottM

691 posts in 2349 days


#11 posted 11-10-2016 02:35 PM

What will it hurt to just give it a try on scrap???

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2313 days


#12 posted 11-11-2016 01:26 PM

What will it hurt to just give it a try on scrap???

I’m always amazed more don’t do this. ;^)


Just keep asking advice on these forums. People will tell you that you need to thin even if the manufacturer states DO NOT THIN in large letters :-)

Because it depends on the product. Some products say that to meet VOC regulations. It’s often OK, and sometimes preferable to thin these products. For instance, solvent lacquers…

Others are products that chemically crosslink and adding too much thinner will move the molecules too far apart and they won’t properly cure. A good clue is where a product states “Do not over thin”, or “Do not thin more than xx%”. These products usually include waterbourne clears and latex paints.

Thinning waterbourne products often has better results with a product called Floetrol instead of water. The OP should try a test on scrap or extra trim, adding 5% at a time of Floetrol. Keep adding until it either sprays well and cures properly (pass), or fails to cure or cover properly (fail).

I’m guessing the gun in question will fail, but anyone who cares about finishing should take the time to play with the tools and material combinations they’ve never used before attempting the actual work. ALWAYS…

View AAANDRRREW's profile

AAANDRRREW

210 posts in 1375 days


#13 posted 11-11-2016 02:57 PM

I agree, I would test it first. That being said, I bought this gun to learn the spraying technique, and mainly, it was for poly – I just haven’t gotten around to trying it out yet.

I will take a peek at some of the other sprayers out there, but, I see Menards has some wagner sprayers in the 100-250 range – would these be more suitable? I do have alot of doors to do, and although its not the worst to hand apply the primer and paint, it is time consuming. I’d love to be able to prep like 5 doors and spray them all at once instead of one at a time…

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2313 days


#14 posted 11-11-2016 04:04 PM

I have a Fuji four stage HVLP that will spray pudding if I wanted… ;^)

I can’t comment on the other units, I’m sure if you search or start a thread on a specific model you’re interested in, there are folks here who own it. My Fuji is about 15 years old. Since then, a lot of less expensive yet very capable systems have been introduced.

Also look around LJ’s for someone with the screen name “Earlextech”. He’s an Earlex rep and very knowledgeable about HVLP systems in general. The info I’ve seen him share has been very open and honest, regardless of brand.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 794 days


#15 posted 11-11-2016 09:52 PM


I have a Fuji four stage HVLP that will spray pudding if I wanted… ;^)
- OggieOglethorpe

Does it work with latex paint without thinning ?

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2134 posts in 3147 days


#16 posted 11-12-2016 01:52 AM

Even if a can says not to thin, that does not mean it won’t work to do so. I’ve used acrylics that said not to thin after thinning and the results were show room quality.

Take another example. I used to buy my two part epoxy mixes in five gallon cans. It was ten years before I got the detailed directions. Only after reading them did I learn I couldn’t do what I’d been doing (off an on) for those ten years – apply it to vertical surfaces. Said another way, I’m glad I didn’t read the directions for those ten years.

There can be several reasons a paint company might say not to thin. It can be because people might think they have to thin. It might be because the company fears you will alter the chemistry by thinning too much, which can happen.

I’ve done projects that a couple teaspoons of water in a quart made all the difference, applying product that said not to thin.

Experiment.

View JAAune's profile

JAAune

1853 posts in 2520 days


#17 posted 11-12-2016 02:42 AM

Some water-based finishes can’t be thinned too much due to the blend of solvents used. On the other hand, the instructions not to thin are often just there because additional solvent will increase the VOC content of the product so it won’t comply with VOC regulations.

-- See my work at http://remmertstudios.com and http://altaredesign.com

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2313 days


#18 posted 11-14-2016 01:22 AM


I have a Fuji four stage HVLP that will spray pudding if I wanted… ;^)
- OggieOglethorpe

Does it work with latex paint without thinning ?

- Carloz

With the proper tip, yes…

One thing to be aware of is pattern size. The airless sprayers used my painters are far better than my Fuji for large areas like walls and ceilings.

I rarely spray latex because I prefer General Finishes Milk Paint for painted furniture and cabinetry. Latex can’t be sanded, it often “blocks”, and it can’t be as easily repaired or touched up.

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1740 posts in 3012 days


#19 posted 11-14-2016 01:32 AM

Latex can’t be sanded ????

wish someone had told me that years ago !

View Big Foot Bows's profile

Big Foot Bows

4 posts in 762 days


#20 posted 11-14-2016 04:37 AM

The tip size and flow rate, & air adjustments regulates the viscosity of the material you are shooting. 1.8 should do most paints and primers. i use 1.4 on auto clear coats…. where a lot of guys have issues is buying a cheap detail gun with 1.0 tip and have to use way to much reducer…. harbor freight has cheap HVLP guns with multiple tip sizes that work fine for the novice…..

Pros doing a lot of clear coating typically invest in higher quality guns that are easier to maintain and get parts for….. i only spray about 10-15 gallons a year doing clear coatings on traditional bows, and i bough a nicer spay gun a few years back after replacing harbor freight guns once a year…... i think i’ll go with a turbine upgrade next time and get rid of the compressor hassle.

-- http://bigfootbows.com/

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2313 days


#21 posted 11-14-2016 12:55 PM



Latex can t be sanded ????

wish someone had told me that years ago !

- cabmaker

I’ve never been happy sanding anything but latex that’s cured for quite a while… Maybe I should say latex sands poorly compared to just about everything else I use. Glad to hear it works well for you, though.

View AAANDRRREW's profile

AAANDRRREW

210 posts in 1375 days


#22 posted 11-14-2016 01:39 PM

Well, I did alot of research (asking here, my painter, some friends and the guy at the paint store, emailed Wagner, etc).

Menards has a heck of a deal right now on a wagner power paint plus (almost 50% off). Was thinking of giving it a shot, figured at worst if it doesn’t work well for my doors I want to spray, it’ll come in handy for the deck next summer and the kids playset. After looking around more, I all but decided on the Wagner Flexio 590… I ready reviews on both – either 5 stars or 1 star – It would appear the people that rate them 1 star maybe expect too much from it in terms of performance and don’t understand it’s limitations and how to properly clean/care of it. Just my opinion. However, the power painter model is a piston style sprayer, and I’m told it does better with heavier materials, but you have to be careful to not overwork it otherwise the piston will give out. I’m also told there will be alot of overspray – its better suited for a room or outdoor item where overspray isn’t an issue and just plain old speed and throwing paint at your target is the goal. The flexio is a turbine one and actually an HVLP, which will provide better quality and less overspray, but doesn’t handle the thicker materials as well… That being said, I’m not in a hurry currently to try the Flexio because the model I want isn’t on sale, and at the current moment I cannot spray because we are heading into winter and I likely would collect a handful of doors and spray them all at once, outdoors. SO, when it goes on sale I’ll pick it up and once winter is over use it.

That being said, I’d love to shoot both my primer (currently Zinzer cover stain – like elmers glue thick…) and trim paint – actually somewhat thin, compared to the primer. But, if all I can realistically shoot is the paint, I’ll take that. My doors I have done look fantastic to the point where I even surprised myself – but it takes FOREVER. After sanding, it takes 2-3 days to prime (one side at a time…) and then I have to sand again and then painting takes another 2-3 days…This project of painting the house trim isn’t as bad as I thought it’d be, but the slow death by door is sure annoying.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2134 posts in 3147 days


#23 posted 11-14-2016 05:40 PM

A perfect example of the sandability of latex is, popcorn ceilings. Rather than peel some, I’ve sanded them with a pole sander. Lightly sanded, to knock down the extreme roughness, they come out like beautiful knock-down textured surfaces. I’ve noted the ones with years of latex coats on them sand better than nearly raw (one coat) popcorn ceilings.

NOTE: These were non-asbestos ceilings.

Latex can t be sanded ????

wish someone had told me that years ago !

- cabmaker

I ve never been happy sanding anything but latex that s cured for quite a while… Maybe I should say latex sands poorly compared to just about everything else I use. Glad to hear it works well for you, though.

- OggieOglethorpe


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OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2313 days


#24 posted 11-14-2016 06:01 PM

That being said, I’d love to shoot both my primer (currently Zinzer cover stain – like elmers glue thick…) and trim paint – actually somewhat thin, compared to the primer.

Maybe considering a different primer might be worthwhile? I’ll bet you could find one that is both easier to spray and perfectly compatible with your finish product.

In most situations, I’m a big fan of what my former Mohawk rep called “systemizing”, which is simply staying within a product family. This usually gives me consistent handling and guaranteed compatibility. My major exception is Zinnser BIN, the white pigmented shellac-based primer. I really like it over raw pine and on existing kitchens that may be contaminated with grease, polishes, smoke, etc… It thins nicely with SLX and also comes in spray bombs.

View AAANDRRREW's profile

AAANDRRREW

210 posts in 1375 days


#25 posted 11-18-2016 01:34 PM

Hey Fellas,
Had some time yesterday to play with that HF HVLP. I watched the video and got it “tuned” up and ready for use – basically just cleaning the silicone/pipe dope off the threaded pieces and replacing with o-rings and teflon tape. Not too tricky.

Anyway, I had some scrap wood laying around – some standard 1×8 pine boards and a 4×4 piece of 1/2” sheathing. I set my compressor to 70 psi and thinned my Zinser coverstain about 30%. I wasn’t real careful with measuring it becuase I was just seeing if the gun would actually spray it and get used to spraying (this was my first time). The process of spraying took longer than I expected – the gun really didn’t THROW paint on. I’d estimate that it would take me maybe 5-10 min of spraying to cover a regular sized door, which is fine compared to roller/brush, just longer than I expected – I was envisioning 3-4 passes and it’d be covered.

But, considering I only used the regulator on my compressor (which is probably more of a coarse adjustment), didn’t sand the wood at all and didn’t have a filter on the air the finish turned out pretty darn good. It took longer to dry than unthinned, which was to be expected. This morning I tried to scrape it off with my fingernail and it didn’t come off easily, so adhesion must be ok. I’ll try sanding it some tonight to see just how good it performed being thinned like this.

I do think though if I spray (whether with a wagner or this one) I’ll try to switch to Zinser bullseye water based for 2 reasons – 1. much easier clean up of the gun 2. the can doesn’t say anything about thinning, whereas the cover stain (oil based) states do not thin…

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2794 posts in 2499 days


#26 posted 11-18-2016 01:48 PM

If I hired a professional painter I would let him do what he does best. A small foam roller and brush can paint a door faster than all the masking and prep and cleanup involved with using a sprayer, especially a 16 dollar one.

View AAANDRRREW's profile

AAANDRRREW

210 posts in 1375 days


#27 posted 11-18-2016 01:59 PM

Well, if I sprayed I’d do it outside so no taping removed. I’d be just doing doors, and several at a shot. And, I don’t have alot of experience, but the gun seemed to do very well. Like I said, it just didn’t lay down paint in mass quantities, which maybe is par for HVLPs.

Cleaning the gun was actually super easy. Just took it a apart and cleaned it out – the tricky part was using paint thinner to do so – it would be easier to just clean it with water in my sink.

View SweetTea's profile

SweetTea

371 posts in 863 days


#28 posted 11-19-2016 01:55 PM

If you are painting doors my advice would be to use an airless sprayer and not an HVLP cup gun. The airless sprayers (such as a Graco) will “throw” a lot more paint on and you can cover the doors in primer and paint really fast. No need to thin most paints or primers either.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2134 posts in 3147 days


#29 posted 11-19-2016 06:02 PM

It all depends on the HVLP. For an experiment, I painted a room using my Accuspray gun (2-1/2 gallon paint pot) and it was impressive. My Spraytech airless, with a fine tip, would still walk all over my four stage Capsprayer, but I also wouldn’t have a hundred feet of hose to clean out (even fifty can be a nuisance for small jobs).

In the end, my four stage (four turbine) sprayer would still only take about ten minutes longer, which, as noted, would be made up for in clean up.

Oh, and if you want to make painting easy, here is a paint aid I made when I was doing some doors for a customer: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/180722

It only requires a 2x, some scrap plywood and a couple short pieces of conduit.

The conduit goes into holes drilled into the center of the bottom and top of the door. I added some plywood, because the doors were heavy and I didn’t want to risk blowing out a pieces of door. The conduit is secured to it, then the strip of plywood screws to the door bottom or top, rather than just relying on the conduit and hole to support it.

The strips also keep the doors from falling, as spinning the door causes the mount to move back, which would move it back out of the shallow (approx 1-1/4”) holes.


If you are painting doors my advice would be to use an airless sprayer and not an HVLP cup gun. The airless sprayers (such as a Graco) will “throw” a lot more paint on and you can cover the doors in primer and paint really fast. No need to thin most paints or primers either.

- SweetTea


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