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Advice on motor for pre-WWII Delta 1460 lathe

by madebyhand
posted 10-11-2016 12:36 PM


36 replies so far

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#1 posted 10-11-2016 01:02 PM

Ideally, you’d find out the speed and hp rating of the motor originally specified for that lathe and find one with the same specs. If you can’t determine that information, you’ll probably want a 1 hp (or maybe even larger if you plan to turn metal) 1725 rpm motor. The main thing you’ll have to determine is what speed motor you need to give you the spindle speed range with the pulley sizes you have. You should shoot for having the spindle turn around 150-200 rpm at your largest pulley reduction and around 4000 rpm at the smallest.

What a lovely machine! I’m very jealous ;-) And welcome to LumberJocks!

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View madebyhand's profile

madebyhand

12 posts in 592 days


#2 posted 10-11-2016 01:35 PM

Hey, thanks HokieKen! I appreciate your reply, even if I do live in UVa country! According to this article on the 1460 lathe, the 1460 wasn’t originally sold with a motor…the buyer had to get their own. In the 1950’s they started offering two additional options:

1. Catalog No. 46-311 included the basic 1460 lathe with the stand and the No. 82-710 1/2 H.P. motor.

2. Catalog No. 46-321 included the 16-speed lathe (the Jack shaft…which I have) with the stand and the motor.

This article also shows specs for two different motors:

(A) No. 62-610 1/2 H.P. Motor. Capacitor start, 115v., 1725 r.p.m., 1/2” diameter single shaft, ball bearing. With switch, cord and plug.

(B) No. 82-710 1/2 H.P. Motor. Capacitor start, 115v., 1725 r.p.m., with on-off switch.

So basically I have no idea what motor would work well for this lathe, nor where to buy it.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#3 posted 10-11-2016 01:52 PM

Based on that info, I’d definitely go with a 1725 rpm motor. I’d look for something in the 3/4-1 hp range but 1/2 hp would probably work since that’s what was sold with it in those later models.

Here is a grizzly motor on Amazon that fits the bill. You should be able to find one similar for less $ if you do some digging online and check CL. If you find a few options and have questions, just post them and I’ll be glad to help where I can. As long as you don’t mention that “other school” again. ;-P

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1287 posts in 1728 days


#4 posted 10-11-2016 02:14 PM

I have that lathe, or the US version. I have no idea what motor came with it originally, but I put a 2hp 3phase motor and use a 3hp Hitachi VFD on it.
It’s a pretty bullet proof machine built very sturdy. It’s not going to hurt it by changing to a larger motor, unless you want to keep it original…...A motor is a motor. It spins to produce a turning effect. The pulleys and horsepower are what determines the motors effectiveness.. If you are going to turn just spindles, stay with the smaller motor, but for bowls, go with a more substantial motor…........... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View Roy Turbett's profile

Roy Turbett

168 posts in 3578 days


#5 posted 10-11-2016 03:00 PM

+1 on a 1750 motor with a pulley configuration of 200 – 4000 RPM. Its also well worth the extra for 3 phase motor and a VFD. A 1 hp motor should be fine because of the limited swing. If you add riser blocks to turn larger bowls, a larger motor will help but is not absolutely necessary. I have a Powermatic 90 with riser blocks and the 1 hp motor with a VFD is adequate.

View madebyhand's profile

madebyhand

12 posts in 592 days


#6 posted 10-11-2016 03:52 PM

Thanks guys! Sorry for my ignorance regarding motors (I’m more of a hand tool guy). So it sounds like a 1hp would be suitable. I was hoping to find a motor for under $100, rather than $188, so I’ll keep looking.

Not sure about doing 3phase as that would require getting 3 phase power into my workshop, right? And I’m sorry, but I’m not very clear about what a VFD is. What is it and do I need it? Budget is a big concern for me, so I’d love to get this running for as little $ as possible.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#7 posted 10-11-2016 04:16 PM

The VFD (variable frequency drive) allows you to run a 3 phase motor on residential single phase service.

VFD is nice because you can control speed electronically but it’s definitely not a requirement. Just a regular single phase capacitor start motor will do nicely. Watch e-Bay as well as Craigslist. For your budget, I think what you’re going to be looking for is: 115 V Single Phase AC motor (or 230 V if you have service in your shop for it), 1/2 to 1 hp (the bigger, the better), 1725 rpm.

Edit: I would also look for ball bearing motors. Sleeve bearing will be cheaper but given the radial loading of the belt, won’t last nearly as long.

Also, as a rule, 3 phase motors will be cheaper than single phase in similar hp and speed ratings. So, if you can find a VFD at a good price, you may come out ahead going the route Jerry did.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View madebyhand's profile

madebyhand

12 posts in 592 days


#8 posted 10-11-2016 04:53 PM

Would this motor work? More than I want to spend, but I’m not seeing much cheaper:

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-hp-agricultural-farm-duty-motor-68288.html

Thanks!

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#9 posted 10-11-2016 05:00 PM



Would this motor work? More than I want to spend, but I m not seeing much cheaper:

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-hp-agricultural-farm-duty-motor-68288.html

Thanks!

- madebyhand

Yes that one will work. It doesn’t say what kind of bearings it has so it’s probably sleeve bearings. Get a 20% off coupon and save yourself another $32. I’d say it’s worth a shot at that price at least.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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madebyhand

12 posts in 592 days


#10 posted 10-11-2016 06:42 PM

Thanks! Are Harbor Freight coupons easy to find?

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2305 posts in 2133 days


#11 posted 10-11-2016 07:25 PM

I would look for something better than a Harbor Freight motor, even if cost more. This one comes with 1 year waranty and better manual than will find at HF.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Motor-1-HP-Single-Phase-1725-RPM-TEFC-110V-220V/G2532

Don’t know where you live but would check with local electric shop or supply house might find a better deal. Those old 1/2 HP motors bought back when lathe was new problably as good as today’s China made 1 HP.

-- Bill

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#12 posted 10-11-2016 07:40 PM



Thanks! Are Harbor Freight coupons easy to find?

- madebyhand

Yep. Here is where you can print one.

If you want to swing the extra $50 or so, the motor that Wildwood links is probably a better one. Although, the HF motor does have good reviews.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

11626 posts in 2378 days


#13 posted 10-12-2016 07:43 PM

Go buy an American motor for that American iron. Call a local motor shop and ask if they have a used Baldor or other quality motor for sale. 1/2hp will work but too weak IMO, I would want 1hp.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#14 posted 10-13-2016 11:09 AM



Go buy an American motor for that American iron. Call a local motor shop and ask if they have a used Baldor or other quality motor for sale. 1/2hp will work but too weak IMO, I would want 1hp.

- Rick M.


For the record, I agree with Rick completely. However, I don’t think you’re gonna hit that with your budget. If you do put the HF motor on there, go ahead and start saving some $ to replace it down the road. That is a killer lathe and at some point, you may find you want to beef up the drive.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View madebyhand's profile

madebyhand

12 posts in 592 days


#15 posted 10-13-2016 11:56 AM

Thanks Rick & Kenny. I have no idea what kind of shop to look for. I looked up “motor shop” on Google maps and all that came up is auto shops.

BTW, both my wife’s parents are Hokies, and I used to live in Hokie country!

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2767 posts in 2295 days


#16 posted 10-13-2016 12:30 PM

You don’t state where you are, but as you’re considering HF I’d guess you aren’t in NZ. I’d just start looking at Craigslist for anything cheap with a 1750 motor that you could cannibalize.

This gives you information on the countershaft arrangement and speed ranges based on using a 1750rpm motor and gives you the pulley specs.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1141/3234.pdf

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#17 posted 10-13-2016 12:35 PM



Thanks Rick & Kenny. I have no idea what kind of shop to look for. I looked up “motor shop” on Google maps and all that came up is auto shops.

BTW, both my wife s parents are Hokies, and I used to live in Hokie country!

- madebyhand

Too bad you had to move from heaven ;-p

As far as local shops, try an appliance repair shop. They may have a suitable motor and if not, they will almost certainly know who repairs and/or sales electric motors.

Like dhazelton said, watch for cheap lathes, tablesaws, possibly even treadmills that may have a suitable motor on Craigslist.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View Wildwood's profile

Wildwood

2305 posts in 2133 days


#18 posted 10-13-2016 01:33 PM

If go back to old iron woodworking machines will find ½ or ¾ HP electric motors backbone of those machines. For hobby trade 1/3 or ¼ HP motors not uncommon and still around today. For wood lathes either 1140 or 1725 max RPM’s pretty much the norm back then. Today 1725 RPM’s pretty much the norm for lathe motors.

OP’s second post gave us info on two ½ HP motors with speeds ranging from 340 to 3400 RPM’s Makes that lathe great combination lathe (spindles/bowls) given the swing of this lathe.

I would have not problem with installing ½, 3/4/ or 1 HP motor on this lathe. Cost wise would stay with either ½ or ¾ HP 1725 max RPM motor new or used. If had the electrical knowledge Jerry has would love that 3 HP Hitachi VFD set up!

Yes prefer Grizzly motors over Harbor Freight mostly because of manual and wiring diagram to help set up. More than few folks had trouble figuring out how to wire up that HF motor while other had no problem at all. Yes, they cost more than HF, but if look at Grizzly catalog have better selection and easier to deal with C/S and tech support.

Quick look at my phone book for telephone numbers could possibly find a better deal new or used locally. Think recommended that in my first post too!

-- Bill

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1287 posts in 1728 days


#19 posted 10-13-2016 02:08 PM

I looked at the link you posted for that HF motor. It stated that if ambient temp goes over 104°. Apparently it’s not fan cooled, so that could be a problem.

Look in your phone book for “Electric Motor Repair”. I’ll bet they are there, and possibly have used motors for sale.

The only thing of concern about a motor to install on a lathe would be the frame mount if the lathe has an existing mount. You’d have to match it, but if the set up looks like what is pictured in this thread, you could use any motor. You just need to have matching pulley diameters to give you the speeds needed for turning. ............. (Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

11626 posts in 2378 days


#20 posted 10-13-2016 05:37 PM

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2767 posts in 2295 days


#21 posted 10-14-2016 10:49 PM

Also look in the phone book for BEARINGS – motor repair shops sell bearings.

View madebyhand's profile

madebyhand

12 posts in 592 days


#22 posted 10-15-2016 09:10 PM

So I have a friend who gave me this motor:

It has no specs on it (i.e. horse power or RPM), but he said the size is larger than the 1/2 hp motor that he had. The only thing I know is that it’s 120 volt. Would this motor work for the lathe?

Also, as the photo shows, the wheel for the belt has a broken piece out of it. However, my lathe came with a belt wheel that has 4 notches for a belt. This is about the same size as the wheels on the jack shaft (which also came with my lathe). The whole on the latter wheel appears to be a bit larger than the shaft that comes out of the motor. Any thoughts on if this motor will work?

Thanks!

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1287 posts in 1728 days


#23 posted 10-16-2016 04:55 AM

You should be able to find an adapter for the shaft and pulley. With the jack shaft and the ability to reduce the speed a lot more than a standard lathe without a jack shaft, a 3/4 hp motor should do the job. I have a 46-450 lathe with Reeves drive driven by a 3/4 hp and have plenty of power up to 12” od…...... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#24 posted 10-16-2016 10:54 AM

I see no reason you can’t try it and see. Like Jerry said, you should be able to find a reducing bushing to fit your pulley to the shaft. Try Northern Hardware or Tractor Supply. Only problem I may see is the motor shaft may not be long enough to support that pulley over the full length.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2767 posts in 2295 days


#25 posted 10-17-2016 01:09 PM

The way you’ll have that set up using a 4 step pulley on each end is 16 speeds total. I think you’d be fine just using a single step pulley on the motor end. If you put it on a mount that’s hinged and can slide you can move the motor to take advantage of the stepped part of the jackshaft that the motor drives and still have 12 speeds at your disposal. (If my math is off don’t beat me up, but you get the point.)

View HapHazzard's profile

HapHazzard

116 posts in 866 days


#26 posted 10-18-2016 12:01 PM

What size is the pulley arbor? The article you cited mentions a 1/2” shaft as one of the specs, but both the HF & Grizzly motors are 5/8”. It’s possible to find a pulley of the same size with a 5/8” arbor, but you’d be better off finding a motor that fits. Also, no one has mentioned the direction of rotation. The HF and Grizzly motors are reversible, as many replacement motors are, but bear in mind as you shop around that not all of them are. It looks like it should be right-handed from the picture (i.e. ccw at the pulley end), but you might want to get the information on that from somebody who owns one or else stick to reversible motors.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#27 posted 10-18-2016 01:18 PM

That is a good point about rotation direction. Based on pics in OP though, motor could be mounted facing either direction so I suspect it’s not a huge concern. Reversible motors are nice to have though if that’s an option for you.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View WaffleM's profile

WaffleM

2 posts in 577 days


#28 posted 10-25-2016 01:48 AM

I have the same lathe and I swapped out the motor for a dc treadmill motor and a MC-60 Black Box Super Motor Controller that I purchased on Ebay for around $150US. The motor has plenty of power, but the main reason I got it was to have a dial control to change speeds. No more stopping to shift belts! I’m also able to get the lathe to turn really slow and in reverse. Reverse has been really handy for sanding as I can now alternate directions to help with end grain. I just have to remember to tighten the set screw on my chuck to keep it from spinning off. That only happened once…

-- What could possibly go wrong?!?

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

11626 posts in 2378 days


#29 posted 10-25-2016 04:48 AM



I have the same lathe and I swapped out the motor for a dc treadmill motor …

- WaffleM

I did too but didn’t bring it up because everyone thinks it’s too difficult. It’s more for tinkerers.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View madebyhand's profile

madebyhand

12 posts in 592 days


#30 posted 11-04-2016 02:13 AM

Thanks for all the advice guys! Here’s my update: I found a replacement single step pulley from Tractor supply to replace the broken one. I’m trying to build a base/workbench for the lathe, but can’t position the legs until I figure out where the motor and jack shaft will be positioned underneath. As you can see in this photo, this person’s jack shaft has the pulley on the end:

But my jack shaft has the pulleys more in the center:

So I won’t be able to get my motor to fit under the bench unless I move the jack shaft pulley to the right of the “transfer case” of the shaft. The jack shaft is obviously built to have these parts move back & forth on the shaft, because all the pieces have screws. But after loosening all the screws & bolts, I can’t move the parts back & forth along the shaft. Should I attempt to add some lubricant and tap the parts with a mallet to get them to move? I hope this isn’t confusing! I just don’t want to break this thing.

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1287 posts in 1728 days


#31 posted 11-04-2016 02:19 AM

As long as you use your head and think things out, you won’t be breaking things. The way you are asking questions looks like you’re just looking for conformation of your thinking. You’re on the right track, so do it and let’s see some turnings soon…....... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#32 posted 11-04-2016 02:27 AM

Looks like it may be an issue of corrosion. Soak everything with some penetrating oil overnight then take your mallet to it. Just don’t hit it too hard and you won’t break it.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

11626 posts in 2378 days


#33 posted 11-04-2016 05:37 AM

Agreed, get to whackin’ on that thing and gitter done.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

6710 posts in 2197 days


#34 posted 11-04-2016 05:47 AM

I’m not familiar with the shaft hangers you have, but the ones in the other picture (the blue delta) have a bronze sleeve bearing in them – and it is a fairly precision fit as with any sleeve bearing. Just a little bit of gunk, grime corrosion or dirt can bind them up. Clean the shaft as much as you can first.. shiny clean… and go from there. Usually after that, just a little bit of lubrication and persuasion can get it moving.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View madebyhand's profile

madebyhand

12 posts in 592 days


#35 posted 11-04-2016 11:40 AM

Thanks guys! So just to be clear MrUnix, what should I clean the shaft with to get it shiny clean? Should I stay away from an abrasive pad or sand paper?

And HokieKen, The little gear boxes (are they called “shaft hangers”?) have grease inside them, so I assume I wouldn’t want to let the oil/lubricant seep inside them, right? So how would I go about soaking the whole jack shaft in penetrating oil without letting it get inside them?

And can you please recommend a penetrating oil? I’m only seeing sprays, so maybe you didn’t mean to soak, but rather spray the penetrating oil on the parts that I want to loosen?

Thanks!

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4999 posts in 1136 days


#36 posted 11-04-2016 12:22 PM



Thanks guys! So just to be clear MrUnix, what should I clean the shaft with to get it shiny clean? Should I stay away from an abrasive pad or sand paper?

And HokieKen, The little gear boxes (are they called “shaft hangers”?) have grease inside them, so I assume I wouldn t want to let the oil/lubricant seep inside them, right? So how would I go about soaking the whole jack shaft in penetrating oil without letting it get inside them?

And can you please recommend a penetrating oil? I m only seeing sprays, so maybe you didn t mean to soak, but rather spray the penetrating oil on the parts that I want to loosen?

Thanks!

- madebyhand

I assumed you had bronze sleeve bearings in there. If there’s grease, it’s probably ball bearings. I’d still soak it. That grease is likely gummed up and causing part of the problem. If the bearings are sealed, they should survive. If not, bearings are cheap and I’d replace them anyway. Actually, if they are sealed, I’d still replace them while you have it apart. Chances are pretty good they’re going to need replacing at some point anyway.

PB Blaster or Aerokroil are good. Sprays are fine, just spray liberally and let it set. Get into the pulleys and bearing blocks as much as you can. Check for progress every few hours and respray if it’s still locked up.

For cleaning, I’d use wet/dry paper with WD40. Start with a lower grit to get the bulk of the rust. Once you get the bearing blocks and pulleys off, go back and work up to fine grits to polish the shaft. If the rust is particularly bad, you could clean it with a wire brush in a drill then once you get the blocks and pulleys off, give it a bath in evaporust/vinegar/citric acid (pick one, not a mixture!) overnight then polish it up with wet/dry paper. However you clean and polish it, put some kind of corrosion preventative on it and make sure your pulley bores are rust-free as well.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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