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View KnickKnack's profile

Are We/You being responsible?

by KnickKnack
posted 01-03-2010 10:27 PM


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58 replies

58 replies so far

View Mark Shymanski's profile

Mark Shymanski

5115 posts in 2436 days


#1 posted 08-03-2010 10:59 PM

Interesting post…I will pay more attention to where the folks I buy wood say it is from, and if they don’t I will ask. So far the most exotic wood I’ve used is maple and I am pretty sure it was from somewhere in North America :-)

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

View Nomad62's profile

Nomad62

726 posts in 1681 days


#2 posted 08-03-2010 11:47 PM

All the distributors I have spoken with in the Oregon area have stated they only buy from sustainable rated suppliers, with exception to the urban logging groups (of course). Good post, humans have responsibilities.

-- Power tools put us ahead of the monkeys

View rhett's profile

rhett

699 posts in 2390 days


#3 posted 08-04-2010 03:27 AM

80% of the solid wood I use is from the state I live in. I find alot of woodworkers think adding exotic wood to their projects will add some sort of extra value to the piece.

If you know how to work the grain, there is no real need to jazz up a project with fancy wood. Besides, local wood is beautiful and speaks of the area it is from.

“Those are nice ebony pegs, too bad they didn’t make that joint any tighter”

-- It's only wood.

View JimDaddyO's profile

JimDaddyO

288 posts in 1802 days


#4 posted 08-04-2010 04:18 PM

So far the only thing I have used is local native woods. Actually, the ash I have was growing in my back yard 6 years ago.

-- I still have all my fingers

View woodcrafter47's profile

woodcrafter47

349 posts in 1828 days


#5 posted 08-04-2010 11:12 PM

Well most of my wood is local, and I just keep an eye out for power companys cut down and road clearings.
Some of my wood is take from thining my wood lot. Oak Cherry, ash and some hickory and walnut

-- In His service ,Richard

View Abbott's profile

Abbott

2570 posts in 2027 days


#6 posted 08-04-2010 11:23 PM

Heh, the wood I use comes from the lumber yard, the big box stores or the hardwood outlet. I don’t worry about where they get theirs.

I don’t waste a moments energy on the “Save the Planet” crowd. The planet isn’t going anywhere, it was here long before the human race was and it will be here long after humans are gone.

sustainable source – shame on you.

There is no shame here and I am plenty responsible for myself and my family. LOL

-- Ohh mann...pancakes and boobies...I'll bet that's what Heaven is like! ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣

View Drew's profile

Drew

136 posts in 1823 days


#7 posted 08-04-2010 11:30 PM

“I’ve been lucky enough to have visited the far east (including Burma), and to Africa, and seen ports and rivers full to bursting point with seemingly endless tree trunks. I’ve also seen the land where those trees used to grow – often, as we all know, they simply aren’t being replanted.”

America looked like that once too.

-- That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.” ― Aldous Huxley

View miles125's profile

miles125

2179 posts in 2729 days


#8 posted 08-04-2010 11:48 PM

Trees are like the Earth’s hair. We humans couldn’t give the planet a bad haircut, much less turn it’s hair into an usustainable resource. We don’t have that power if all human ingenuity set out to do it.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

View Mark Shymanski's profile

Mark Shymanski

5115 posts in 2436 days


#9 posted 08-05-2010 12:02 AM

England deforested most of its firests (oak trees) to build its navy, much of S. America is being clearcut for sustance or cash crop farming, much of Africa is being clearcut for charcoal production and sugsistance farming. I’ve seen the strips of clear cut in British Columbia, and various American states. We DO have the power, it doesn’t require ingenuity to clear cut a forest it takes ingenuity to harvest the wood in a sustainable fashion.

Yup the ‘Save the Planet’ crowd can be irritating at times, and I myself thought much as you did at one point… then I realized yeah the planet will go on but quite possibly with out any humans or more complex creatures on it. We can make this environment unsuitable for human habitation, why would we not want to take care of it?

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

View Abbott's profile

Abbott

2570 posts in 2027 days


#10 posted 08-05-2010 12:26 AM

I will phone Home Depot right of way and tell them they had better buy their wood from renewable tree sources or else the Lumberjocks will get them! :)

Or maybe I will just go there when I need to and purchase what I want. I really couldn’t care less where they purchase their lumber as long as it holds, nails, screws and glue….these days that’s asking a lot from the box stores I know.

why would we not want to take care of it?

I prefer to live my life without all of the Save the Planet worry. If it makes a few of you fellows feel better you may worry twice as hard about it to make up for my not worrying about it. Enjoy :)

-- Ohh mann...pancakes and boobies...I'll bet that's what Heaven is like! ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣

View wch's profile

wch

45 posts in 1681 days


#11 posted 08-05-2010 01:19 AM

The planet may not be going anywhere, but many of the resources sure are. There’s a reason it’s pretty much impossible to get very useful woods like lignum vitae (ironwood) and Brazilian rosewood. It’s the same reason that the lumber available these days is of lower quality than it was just 40 years ago.

I suppose if you’re old and selfish, it might make sense to use up everything you can without thinking about the future. But if you have a long life ahead of you, or if you care about what your children and grandchildren will be able to do, then it’s another story. Imagine what a nightmare it would be if the only lumber available to them was pine, red oak, and plywood!

View Betsy's profile

Betsy

2914 posts in 2619 days


#12 posted 08-05-2010 02:24 AM

“If you know your wood is not from a sustainable source – shame on you.” Trying to shame a group of people into thinking/doing the way you do grates me the wrong way. There are lots of folks that are very passionate about their responsibility to our planet but they don’t wear it on their sleeve or push it on others. They live it. I don’t tell people in my church how much I tithe, I don’t need to trumpet it. Same thing here.

If you would have stopped your topic before reaching——
If you know your wood is from a sustainable source – trumpet it loudly.
If you know your wood is not from a sustainable source – shame on you.
If you don’t know where it came from – perhaps it’s worth finding out?—-

You would have had properly educated a bunch of woodworkers who have not thought about your point without shaming them into any particular action. An educated person usually makes good decisions. A person who is preached too or shamed into action may just get their backs up and not go anywhere near where you want them to go.

Just my two cents.

-- Like a bad penny, I keep coming back!

View DAWG's profile

DAWG

2850 posts in 1860 days


#13 posted 08-05-2010 02:42 AM

Thanks Betsy, well said.

-- Luke 23: 42-43

View poroskywood's profile

poroskywood

614 posts in 2087 days


#14 posted 08-05-2010 03:25 AM

As a lumber Co.
All of our lumber is sustainable.
That is, not illegally harvested or harvested from genetically altered sources. We practice selective harvesting and prepare erosion management plans. We do everything to comply with what sustainable harvesting means and stands for.

Here’s the problem

For our lumber company to be “certified” sustainable we have to pay for the Certified Stamp… That’s right organizations like SFI, FSC, Tree Farmer, whatever, have all developed programs where they come in to your company, check you all out and before you get their approval…...You have to PAY and not just a hundred bucks…. $ Thousands $, based on a percentage of your net business.

These certification programs are a special interest rip off, created solely to take advantage of the “Green Movement” and exploit the North American Lumber industry in to shelling out $ Money $

Example The State of West Virginia has some of the most rigid and stern timber harvesting laws in the country. More regulations than any of the Certification programs could come close to implementing. Why would any lumber producer in that state need to sign up and pay out money to be certified sustainable? They already surpass all the program standards. “Well if they want to be part of the Green Movement and be able to stamp their product certified, they will pay”. That was the answer I heard right from the representatives mouth.

Heres another example I sell lumber to large distributors. They are certified FSC, SFI. Once a year (all of them) send me a waiver form to sign stating that our lumber is not illegally harvested and sustainable blah blah blah… So I sign it and now, on just my word, they can sell my lumber with (and as) theirs as certified sustainable.
Guess what…. the certification program doesn’t care. They are getting paid by the large company…. BIG $

I believe in and run our company in a green, earth friendly way, We practice sustainability.
However all this certified sustainable bull is just a lot of money making CRAP.

I’ll be glad to discuss this issue with anyone.

-- There's many a slip betwixt a cup and a lip.--Scott

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juniorjock

1930 posts in 2488 days


#15 posted 08-05-2010 04:26 AM

I agree with KnickKnack….......

But I agree with Abbott and Betsy too…. and a lot of other posts here.

KnickKnack, I think you had a very good point which could have been a good topic for a thread, but with these LumberJocks, you went about stating your view in the wrong way. No one likes a finger shaking in their face. Including me. ( and by the way, I am very selective about what type lumber I use and where it comes from ).

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

15024 posts in 2399 days


#16 posted 08-05-2010 04:31 AM

poroskywood, Unfortunately, you have pretty well summed it up:-(( Most big corps are about public image and money; that means advertising like BP is dong now and cutting every corner they can to make a buck. The lip service is we are responsible citizens, the reality is the operation is like the mob; what ever it takes. I have some personal knowledge of these activities, but I will not bore you with the details. Not wood company related, just corp management doing what they do best:-((

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Abbott's profile

Abbott

2570 posts in 2027 days


#17 posted 08-05-2010 04:46 AM

So now we have “shame on you” and ”old and selfish” yeah, that is really going to make others want to listen to your point. Like I said I choose not to worry about the save the planet crap as I have a life to live and enjoy without choosing all of those topics to fill my days with worry. If you find my choice of how to live my life bothersome I would suggest instead of posting like a poor fish (as shown by comments like the two I bolded) you may feel free to worry double to make up for my lack of worrying. The planet is not going anywhere and it does not require you or I to save it, you and I are not that big of a deal :)

I am not old, I am not selfish nor am I shamed by comments made on an Internet forum by complete strangers who think they are being some kind of do gooders for trying to force their politically correct bullshitte onto other people.

-- Ohh mann...pancakes and boobies...I'll bet that's what Heaven is like! ♣ ♣ ♣ ♣

View MrsN's profile

MrsN

941 posts in 2249 days


#18 posted 08-05-2010 05:05 AM

most of the wood I buy is scraps from someone else. So I figure I am not encoraging bad harvesting practices, just saving pieces from fires and mulch.
intersting topic, I have never responded well to shame and guilt to make me do anything. Just curious, is there an easy way to find out if a retailer is on some “green” list? I get a number of woodworking supply catalogs, many with lumber or turning blanks, I can’t recall seeing any notice of using sustainable resources. Would they all be “bad”? Maybe instead of insulting me and trying to shame me into your way of thinking you could have said something like “these guys have a great selection plus they harvest only sustainable lumber”

-- ----- www.KNWoodworking.com ----- --

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RWJones

127 posts in 1600 days


#19 posted 08-05-2010 05:24 AM

Preaching to the wrong crowd! Once the product is in the store, it doesn’t matter where it comes from. If we as a group decided not to buy it to make a point, then the lumberyard is still going to sell it to somebody else, at some price. If you want to change the way forests are managed you’ll have to start on the other end. Besides I agree with poroskywood, it’s all about making a dollar. Thanks, but no thanks. I don’t need somebody yelling me “you can’t do that”! I think that a majority of this environmental spewage is just a social agenda.

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spclPatrolGroup

231 posts in 1618 days


#20 posted 08-05-2010 05:55 AM

I watched a news type show on home depot, on CNBC I think, anyway they said that due to pressure from the outside they have switched to only selling sustainable wood products, and I assume most big box stores have as well.

-- Dave, from ND "The mind is an infinitely long workbench, and its cluttered with half-finished thoughts and ideas, sometimes we need to clear off the workbench and start again from step one."

View dfdye's profile

dfdye

372 posts in 1760 days


#21 posted 08-05-2010 08:02 AM

I try and buy only local hardwood lumber, but since I live in Indiana, this doesn’t really limit my selection all that much! :)

The recent exception to that was that I bought a big batch of Lyptus as an alternative to Mahogany for a project I was planning (still haven’t even started it, sadly). The Lyptus is touted as being sustainable, though there is some controversy as to whether this is actually the case. Still, I was trying to get something that was a good, contentious choice.

As for a non-sustainable option, I know a local dealer who has some enormous mahogany boards that have been sitting in his rafters for a few decades. Though I am certain they came from trees that were cut at the height of non-sustainable logging, these boards are amazing specimens! I am also certain that if I did buy them I would in no way be encouraging him to ever seek to buy boards like this ever again, since he always complains that he can never get anyone to buy them! Still, I have no idea how I could do a 20’ long, 18”-24” wide board (with pretty nice grain, I think—I have never looked up close) justice, so I’ll just have to oogle every time I drop by the shop.

-- David from Indiana --

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

15024 posts in 2399 days


#22 posted 08-05-2010 08:19 AM

Sounds like you would have to own a tavern or a big rec room and build a nice bar :-)) Not sure what my daddy in law’s bar was, I suppose mahogany. I really have no idea, It did have a red look to it. Probably made in the late 18 or early 1900’s.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View KnickKnack's profile

KnickKnack

992 posts in 2289 days


#23 posted 08-05-2010 08:44 AM

This post sat here for 212 days without a single comment.
I’m mighty curious as to why, suddenly, the kraken has woken up?

Whilst it was not my intention to offend, I make no apology for my content or tone…

”The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing”

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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sawblade1

754 posts in 1750 days


#24 posted 08-05-2010 08:54 AM

I really don’t believe the hype or the whole sustainability issue !!! Trees are a renewable resource cut one down plant one back it’ll grow where I believe the hype started was where logging companies were irresponsible in their practice and someone said they need to pay.
well instead of them paying we do by buying certified green Eco- friendly lumber just cause one said they did it the right way we will never know only by what they tell us and I don’t believe them much anyway especially coming from the same type of people who were before putting made in U.S.A stickers on Chinese made items. I believe if you have a local saw mill support them they probably get it more local from tree companies etc. and if we want to make sure tree are still around for us and to be responsible plant our own trees then we will know for sure.

-- Proverbs Ch:3 vs 5,6,7 Trust in the lord with all thine heart and lean not unto your own understanding but in all your ways aknowledge him and he shall direct your path elmerthomas81@neo.rr.com

View DAWG's profile

DAWG

2850 posts in 1860 days


#25 posted 08-05-2010 09:09 AM

Poroskywood you hit the nail on the head. Most of this is driven by money, not someones conscience. I work at a Plant that had to be certified by ISO 9000, which means we pay them big bucks to come once a year and tell us we’re doing what we say we’re doing. Oh, and instead of buying a $12 calibrated thermometer for our lab we buy a $12 calibrated thermometer and $100 peice of paper that say’s it’s been calibrated. And all this extra money ends up coming out of our pockets at the consumer level. If you think wood is high now give it ten more years of the way it’s going now and see how high it is. Stepping down from soapbox now.

-- Luke 23: 42-43

View miles125's profile

miles125

2179 posts in 2729 days


#26 posted 08-05-2010 10:05 AM

Whats missing in modern environmentalist is any perspective that we humans are a part of nature. The idea that humans don’t belong here and shouldn’t benefit from the planet’s bounty is what’s unsustainable.

-- "The way to make a small fortune in woodworking- start with a large one"

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BertFlores58

1646 posts in 1645 days


#27 posted 08-05-2010 10:43 AM

MrsN,
We have in common, I use those cut-off, scraps and reclaimed wood. Take a good look on my projects and you will see those nail holes patched with fillers.
—————————-
How can you get PHILIPPINE EBONY or KAMAGONG here in my place when there is nowhere to find in the lumberyard and many other stores? But if you just go on those houses being renovated for buildings and some other damaged by typhoon, you can get SOME of these exotic wood.

THINK OF THIS.. IF THERE IS GOOD SUPPLY … THERE IS LESS DEMAND, BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS IT. WHY IS IT THAT PINE ARE USED FOR CRATES AND PALLETS???? BECAUSE IT IS SUSTAINABLE..... WRONG… IT IS NOT DEMANDED BY WOODWORKERS.

I think those who should feel guilty are those who just look on the looks of the timber without even knowing how it was made and found. If anyone can give me EBONY right now, I would be very glad to make it as infill plane. Those who do not know how precious it is, he might think it is only a charcoal for heaters then BOOM.. WHAT A WASTE?

-- Bert

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TopamaxSurvivor

15024 posts in 2399 days


#28 posted 08-05-2010 01:15 PM

KnickKnack, Obviously no one noticed it 212 days ago. Once you slip from the front couple three pages, someone has to stumble a cross it.

This thread reminds me of a clear cut I saw when I used to hunt with my brother in law in SW WA. It ran form I-5 nearly to Mt St Helens and from hwy 12 on the north to the Toutle River on the south; that is about 20 miles x 30 miles. That ws before a lot of replanting, just sort of let nature take its course, which it did, but it takes a long time:-(

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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poroskywood

614 posts in 2087 days


#29 posted 08-05-2010 02:32 PM

Hey sawblade1 You are right you will never really know.

Manufactures: “We would like to start buying certified wood.”

Porosky Lumber: “Ok, providing you with certified wood will cost us thousands of dollars. How much more money will our certified wood be worth to you?”

Manufactures: “Well, we can’t pay you anymore for it. It’s going to be the industry standard however. If you can’t provide it for us we’ll buy it else where.”

Porosky Lumber: “OK, good Luck.”

The problem is they can’t find it else where. In this recession we have lost nearly 70% of North American hardwood production due to going out of business and shut down. So where are manufactures (All over the world) finding Sustainable wood?

Certification programs are changing their rules to keep the money flowing! Now some organizations are saying certification can start later on in the manufacturing process. This way manufactures in China and where ever (also America, although few and far) can stamp Sustainable Certified on their products directly. The manufacture is claming the wood is certified….

Why would a Manufacture want to stamp Certified Sustainable on their product? Because they can charge more for it. The consumer wants to pay extra for a certified sustainable product. Here please charge us more for a Green Product. THERE IS NO SUCH THING. It’s all made up to create Money.

-- There's many a slip betwixt a cup and a lip.--Scott

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AaronK

1398 posts in 2187 days


#30 posted 08-05-2010 02:36 PM

wow there are a lot of interesting opinions being voiced on this thread. me (personally), I’m more quiet, small, and slow about how I do things. rhett said it best: “local wood is beautiful and speaks of the area it is from.” Would Shaker furniture be as loved as it is if it were made from zebrawood? What about a Thos Moser cabinet, or a Maloof rocker? this is much like food, another agricultural product. I believe that people should know how food gets from the farm to their plate. Sure you can buy tomatoes any time of the year, but will they be as good as ones you can buy in midsummer? will those be as good as ones you buy from a local farmer or grow in your backyard?

Likewise: having exotic woods available at literally a click of the mouse is an extreme privilege – and like food, people should know the whole story about how/where it was grown, harvested, shipped, etc. Once you are educated, use your conscience to decide the best way forward. It’s not about politics or a social agenda – it’s just something each person should confront within themselves, like part of growing up. Make sure you know what you think you know, then act how you feel is the most responsible way.

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poroskywood

614 posts in 2087 days


#31 posted 08-05-2010 02:43 PM

After thought: What should woodworkers do. I think just Know where your lumber comes from. Support local mills that provide jobs for your neighbors. A small sawmill in Pennsylvania is not killing the rain forest and should not be penalized for those who are.

As far as sustainable wood goes, I think if you are demanding sustainable wood you are asking to pay more for what you are already buying.

-- There's many a slip betwixt a cup and a lip.--Scott

View jim C's profile

jim C

1455 posts in 1821 days


#32 posted 08-05-2010 02:58 PM

I’m firmly with the tree huggers.
I’ve just informed my family they are to rinse out the toilet paper and hang it on the clothesline for re-use.
We’re doing our part !
What else ?
We need more good ideas.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

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chrisstef

11347 posts in 1729 days


#33 posted 08-05-2010 03:07 PM

For me i tend to work only with reclaimed lumber mostly for the fact that it comes to me for free being a demolition contractor. So i ask myself the question would i still use it if it didn’t come for free … im not sure but i like to think its my miniscule effort to help out environment. I understand all the viewpoints from the posters stating their opinions. But for the longest time i have felt that Americans, as a whole, are greedy and have had a me first mentallity for too long. The generosity shown by some on this site (i just read patron, ellen, and mikes posts about giving and receiveing) shows to me the small percentage of those which can change our times. Im not here to judge the thoughts and mentallity of others in regard to sustainable lumber sources. I believe that small changes in thinking can globally effect those around us.

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

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poroskywood

614 posts in 2087 days


#34 posted 08-05-2010 05:02 PM

Jim that reminds me of a bumper sticker. ”If you object to logging try wiping your Ass with plastic

-- There's many a slip betwixt a cup and a lip.--Scott

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dbhost

5386 posts in 1955 days


#35 posted 08-05-2010 05:24 PM

I am not the Birkenstock type by a LONG shot, but I do believe in best utilizing resources. The overwhelming majority of my stock comes from “sustainable” or “waste stream” sources. For example. I spend a LOT of time and effort on resawing found wood, particularly storm blow down locally. I get a lot of oak, pecan, mesquite, and southern yellow pine this way. I am also prone to grabbing things like discarded waterbed frames off of the curb on heavy trash day and recycling the lumber, and as much of the hardware as I can. I do not do this to make any political statement, or to protect mother earth or any other such thing. I do this because it makes sense to use what is there instead of paying large sums of cash for pre-processed materials.

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

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dmorrison

146 posts in 1985 days


#36 posted 08-05-2010 07:03 PM

Reminds me of the flight attendant joke. A flight attendant ( or any waitress ) was having a bad day. Serving coffee to a passenger, the passenger asked if the coffee was decaf? The Flight attendants response not really caring that the coffee was regular ” do you want it to be decaf?”

Is the wood I’m buying sustainable? The company says yes, How do we really know.

Toyota’s are safe and no recall is necessary.

Etc. Etc.

Dave

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FordMike

155 posts in 2194 days


#37 posted 08-06-2010 01:41 AM

Spend some time in the third world countries and you’ll find out that nobody’s clearcutting tropical forests for exotic hardwoods they are cutting trees for livestock, houses, plantations, mining, military bases, pulp wood plantations etc.. I would rather these exotic woods be used thatn burned or cut for pallets. I agree that i would rather use domestic hardwoods, but if you live in beleze mahogany is a local hardwood.

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TopamaxSurvivor

15024 posts in 2399 days


#38 posted 08-06-2010 03:29 AM

It is clear that there are the good intentions of the responsible and the actioins of the money grubbers :-))

Like Greenspan said, the derivative market didn’t need regulatioin because responsible people are the market ;-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) stupid old fool :-)) Brought the world’s economy to its knees ;-((

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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dfdye

372 posts in 1760 days


#39 posted 08-06-2010 06:33 AM

“Support local mills that provide jobs for your neighbors.”

Absent any other considerations, this is a great reason to buy local wood!

-- David from Indiana --

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spalted

21 posts in 1713 days


#40 posted 08-14-2010 07:10 AM

if you want to buy-in to the whole green movement go for it.. but shame on you for the guilt trip to others who do not think like you do. Bah!

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Edward83

161 posts in 1620 days


#41 posted 08-14-2010 07:30 AM

Proud to say I’m doing my part in the deforestation of the world. I used to be an eco conscience, litter pickin upper, vegetarian. Sure the ladies loved it. But it’s thinking to much inside the box for me. I like to think outside the box as opposed to popular thought.
A hundred years from now the history books will talk about the great global warming hoax and why the government forces everybody to live in a teepee and share the same bucket of water because all the eco nuts filed a complaint and big brother passed a bill that no one is allowed to use light bulbs. I was told that I am not allowed to push my religious views on this website so I don’t share the Gospel I preach and I’d like the same respect from you. Keep it to woodworking. That’s why we’re all here.

-- Praise God in all things, especially the bad things because they make the best learning experiences.

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Kerux

812 posts in 2607 days


#42 posted 08-14-2010 09:01 AM

I believe God (The Living ONE) is the one that makes ‘things’ sustainable. Should we be good stewards, yes. Should we be thinking we are great than God and that we could destroy the planet. No.

-- http://caledoniachurchofchrist.yolasite.com/

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KnickKnack

992 posts in 2289 days


#43 posted 08-14-2010 12:50 PM

Nearly 1000 views now – my only intention here was an attempt to bring the issue of sustainable wood to the front of peoples’ minds, if only for a few seconds – mission accomplished.

>> A hundred years from now the history books will talk about the great global warming hoax…
Deforestation isn’t some intellectual conspiracy theory – it’s actually happening. One can argue about whether or not it affects global warming etc (which, incidentally, I didn’t). But you can’t argue that once the last Burmese Blackwood tree (which I see on the IUCN Red list of Threatened Species), for example, has been cut down, that there will be no more of them. Maybe that would be OK, maybe it wouldn’t – in my opinion it would be a bad thing.
Had we not stopped the trade in ivory, I’m fairly sure that there would be no elephants in the wild today.

>> I was told that I am not allowed to push my religious views on this website so I don’t share the Gospel I preach and I’d like the same respect from you. Keep it to woodworking.
With the greatest respect, if discussing the source of the basic raw material used in woodworking isn’t about woodworking, then I don’t know what is.

>> Should we be thinking we are great than God and that we could destroy the planet. No.
I don’t wish to get into any kind of religious debate – as was pointed out, LJ isn’t the place for that. But it seems to me that man is quite capable of destroying the planet in any number of ways, both subtle (and argueable – global warming, desertification, super-bugs etc), and unsubtle (nuclear war etc)

>> Is the wood I’m buying sustainable? The company says yes, How do we really know.
We don’t really know. Unless you’re a zealot (which we have enough of in the world already), “due dilligence” is, imho, enough. I thought AaronK said it beautifully, and in the kind if non-contentious way of which I’m not capable.

>> if you want to buy-in to the whole green movement go for it.. but shame on you for the guilt trip to others who do not think like you do. Bah!
My “shame on you” comment seems to have riled a number of people. I thought long and hard about that line before I wrote it, and I’ve thought long and hard about it since.
But still that’s how I feel.
If I’ve made a single person feel guilty about their use of unsustainable wood – excellent – by definition you only feel guilty when you do things that you know aren’t right.

>> I’ve just informed my family they are to rinse out the toilet paper and hang it on the clothesline for re-use.
>> Jim that reminds me of a bumper sticker. ”If you object to logging try wiping your Ass with plastic”

There’s the bidet solution…

>> Once the product is in the store, it doesn’t matter where it comes from. If we as a group decided not to buy it to make a point, then the lumberyard is still going to sell it to somebody else, at some price
I don’t agree. See spclPatrolGroup’s comment.

>> Proud to say I’m doing my part in the deforestation of the world
“No comment.”

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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AaronK

1398 posts in 2187 days


#44 posted 08-14-2010 01:00 PM

progress has never come through complacency :-)

View Gator's profile

Gator

377 posts in 2399 days


#45 posted 08-14-2010 01:29 PM

Have you heard the one about the chicken and the cell phone??

Lighten up people.. lets just be responsible.. if you have 50 bdft of blood wood, dont mill it from 8/4 to 1/4 to make a book shelf.. use exotic woods responsibly. It is just like eating protected animals.. you need to make soup from the carcas.. don’t just throw it to the dogs…

Now that aught to get another 493 soap boxes dusted off and put back into action…

-- Master designer of precision sawdust and one of a kind slivers.

View jackass's profile

jackass

350 posts in 2436 days


#46 posted 08-14-2010 02:02 PM

Hi Knickknack,
I couldn’t agree more!!! You have the right attitude!!! There should be more of this, conservation!!! We all, except for a very few, want to leave a planet in good condition for our children. Anyone who doesn’t agree has their head in the sand.
Jack

-- Jack Keefe Shediac NB Canada

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helluvawreck

15983 posts in 1590 days


#47 posted 08-14-2010 02:18 PM

If the environmental movement wouldn’t turn so many people off they would get a lot more help but some of the things that they are up to is just plain radical. I believe that God created this earth and wants us to be good stewards of it and I also believe that God is able to look after it. Man cannot destroy this planet without it being God’s will. The people in this world who run the show have made it so difficult for the average person to make a living it’s getting harder and harder just trying to give your family what they need without being able to worry about anything else. It’s a sad situation.

Now, back to woodworking, I am fixing to get going to work on my shop for the whole weekend and I’m not going to think about anything but my shop.

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

View poroskywood's profile

poroskywood

614 posts in 2087 days


#48 posted 08-14-2010 02:23 PM

OK, When you start using a Bidet I’ll…... still be using paper. I’ll bet a hundred that there is as many Lumberjocks using unsustainable, illegally harvested exotic wood as there are Americans using Bidets! Read FordMike post #39. Anyone out there ever use a piece of Burmese Blackwood?...... Crickets….crickets…crickets

Of coarse we should leave the planet in beautiful condition for our children. We are talking about using sustainable wood and what that means.

KnickKnack said

>>If you know your wood is not from a sustainable source – shame on you.
>>If you don’t know where it came from – perhaps it’s worth finding out?

My point is… You don’t Know. You can’t Know. There is no such thing. Sustainable is a word made up for the timber and lumber industry by special interest and big business to create money for them by adding value to something thats called sustainable.

My soapbox is made from North American Hardwoods harvested and processed by my friends and neighbors.

-- There's many a slip betwixt a cup and a lip.--Scott

View Moron's profile

Moron

4707 posts in 2616 days


#49 posted 08-14-2010 03:07 PM

Its not that I dont use exotic woods (albeit I refrain from it) but it does bother me when a person uses an exotic wood whos skill level rides at 3 out of ten…..............what a waste of good wood.

To ease my guilt I plant trees, hundreds, if not thousands. I clone them, graft them, transplant them, grow them from seed…...............

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Edward83's profile

Edward83

161 posts in 1620 days


#50 posted 08-14-2010 03:18 PM

I hope you understand that my comment was merely sarcastic, mostly. I do think discussing the source of wood is a good topic of woodworking, inducing guilt by shaming people that have to support their families, not so much. But sustainability and “trumpeting it loudly if you do”, or “hiding it in quiet shame” is not discussing the source, it is pushing an agenda. Because people feel guilty doesn’t necaserrily mean that they are doing something that they know isn’t right. Nor is their responding to you in such a way. I am still an eco conscience person, I ride a bike, I grow vegetables, I’ve planted trees. And as kerux had said I do believe in being a good steward to the planet. But I don’t believe in shaming someone for supporting their family or for working out their passion.

-- Praise God in all things, especially the bad things because they make the best learning experiences.

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