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Shoulder Planes

by Chris
posted 07-13-2007 04:51 AM


37 replies so far

View WayneC's profile

WayneC

12268 posts in 2735 days


#1 posted 07-13-2007 06:12 AM

Here is a link to gravediggers review of his Veritas Shoulder plane – http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/TheGravedigger/blog/1377

More reviews of the plane are on this page

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7777

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#2 posted 07-13-2007 11:13 AM

I just received the LV medium (haven’t even had a fair chance at useing the blasted thing! – but sure want to!) after trying to decide whether to go LV med or large, LN med or large, or a Clifton model. Stanley’s were out of the running early on. Just not enough plane, nor quality (the newer English made planes).

After getting a feel for the LNs, I decided that they weren’t as comfortable as the LV even looked! So, I made the decision to start with the LN medium (will be most useful on the scale of work I do), and then potentially go for the large down the line…

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View Douglas Bordner's profile

Douglas Bordner

3963 posts in 2701 days


#3 posted 07-13-2007 11:38 AM

I adore my Lee Valley-Veritas medium shoulder plane, and after reading the Digger’s review now wish I had gotten it’s big brother (because of the bullnose feature). I have never had my hands on a Lie-Nieson plane, but they are slightly more expensive than the Veritas, and are essentially just finely made updates of Leonard Bailey’s bedrock series of planes. Veritas however re-thought and up-engineered the design to something new and I think improved.
I have yet to buy a dog from Lee Valley. They have an excellent and competitive hardware catalogue as well.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

View WayneC's profile

WayneC

12268 posts in 2735 days


#4 posted 07-13-2007 02:20 PM

Here are some reviews of the LN Plane. This is the one I have been leaning towards. The comfort discussions relative to the one from LV have me wondering about my leanings.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideProduct.aspx?id=28718

http://www.sawdustandshavings.com/hand_tools/lie-nielsen_shoulder_plane_review.asp

http://www.inthewoodshop.org/reviews/ln73.shtml

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/Tool+Test++LieNielsen+Medium+Shoulder+Plane+.aspx

Of course if money is no object….

http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/First+Look+Bridge+City+HP7+Shoulder+Plane+.aspx

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

View pmulry's profile

pmulry

21 posts in 2608 days


#5 posted 07-13-2007 05:33 PM

I got the Lee Valley/Veritas medium shoulder plane last December for a mother-in-law project and have used it quite a bit since then. I like it a lot—it’s certainly my most-used plane currently. The only thing I’m still not sure about (bear in mind this is 7 months later, so maybe it just isn’t really that big a deal to me) is the adjustable knob on the upper back side that swings 180 degrees to fit the web of your hand while using it. It’s handy, but seems too small to really bear down on, so I mostly just tighten my grip if the going gets tough. Otherwise, fit and finish are superb and I would certainly buy it again. Wish I could say that about all my hand tools :) Good luck.

-- Pat Mulry, Dallas, Texas || www.lonestarpokertables.com

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#6 posted 07-13-2007 05:51 PM

Douglas – I believe the LN shoulder planes are Preston copies. When I was first looking into them I liked the romantic notion of having one of the LNs, they certainly are beautiful, but I really liked the new ideas that the LV offered, even though it wasn’t quite as aesthetically pleasing…

It grows on you though!

Chris, et al. also see: Shoulder Planes Reviewed (if you haven’t already – may need FWW membership)

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View WayneC's profile

WayneC

12268 posts in 2735 days


#7 posted 07-13-2007 05:52 PM

Just checked FWW membership is required. Guess I am going to have to drop the $$$

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#8 posted 07-13-2007 05:58 PM

By the way – I had read that even a large plane is great for smaller work because of the overall weight and originally was going to purchase a large, but again, after holding the LNs at Woodcraft (which I lovingly refer to as Woodcrap) to get a feel for them, I just could not see hefting so much weight on the more delicate projects (for too long at a time)...So, I changed gears and started looking at the mediums!

Also see: the Clifton 3110 (one of the other contenders).

The other Clifton shoulder planes can be seen at the above link as well.

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View TheGravedigger's profile

TheGravedigger

963 posts in 2661 days


#9 posted 07-13-2007 06:07 PM

Doug, your LV medium will do the chisel-plane thing as well. Simply remove the adjustable mouth section and voila!

Wayne, the FWW membership is worth every penny. Great articles, reviews, and video. I love it!

-- Robert - Visit my woodworking blog: http://littlegoodpieces.wordpress.com

View Chris 's profile

Chris

1867 posts in 2628 days


#10 posted 07-13-2007 09:01 PM

Ok everyone….. I see a large percentage of you like the LV.

My next question is which blade; O1 or A2?

-- "Everything that is great and inspiring is created by the individual who labors in freedom" -- Albert Einstein

View Chris 's profile

Chris

1867 posts in 2628 days


#11 posted 07-13-2007 09:18 PM

Gravedigger,

In looking at the medioum LV on their website it appears the upper portion of the plane body would be in the way if one were to use it as a chisel plane.Does this hold true in practice? (Illustration)

-- "Everything that is great and inspiring is created by the individual who labors in freedom" -- Albert Einstein

View TheGravedigger's profile

TheGravedigger

963 posts in 2661 days


#12 posted 07-14-2007 04:44 AM

It’s going to depend on how deep the rabbet/dado/whatever is. I’ll measure the overhang on mine tomorrow and let you know. I’m thinking it’s 3/4”-1” or so, but don’t hold me to that.

I went with the O1 blade. I’ve got oilstones, so they aren’t as agressive as waterstones. The O1 seemed a better choice for that. The A2 should hold an edge longer, but I’ve had excellent durability from the O1. In either case, they do a great job of lapping the back of the blade. Mine was perfectly flat.

-- Robert - Visit my woodworking blog: http://littlegoodpieces.wordpress.com

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#13 posted 07-14-2007 07:59 AM

I went with A2 in the LV shoulder plane, just cause, other than my Stanley’s – with stock irons (no Hock’s -yet), the couple of LN planes I own have A2 irons and I’ve been very pleased -

I use a 1000, 3000, 6000 waterstone combo for sharpening and honing (usually just the 1000 and 6000 though) then polish with a strop.

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View Douglas Bordner's profile

Douglas Bordner

3963 posts in 2701 days


#14 posted 07-14-2007 10:29 AM

Digger, thank you immeasurably. I had no idea. God help me keep out of the garage at 3:25 am CST!
Dorje, aren’t the bench planes Bailey inspired? I got off thread admittedly. This is shoulder plane chat.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

View WayneC's profile

WayneC

12268 posts in 2735 days


#15 posted 07-14-2007 03:17 PM

Hmmmm. I hope Chris forgives the diversion. Hock is a slippery slope. You will want more than one. Just like good potato chips.

I have both High Carbon and A2 blades and Hock Chip breakers in several of my planes. My “best” smoothing plane ATM is a #5 Bedrock with a Hock A2 blade and chip breaker. This is compaired to my “next best” which is a LN #4. I’ve also got a Stanley #65 low angle block plane with a Hock blade in it. It also cuts exceptionally.

I would recommend trying out Hock blades in your Stanleys if you get a chance. I am also looking at buying some of the blades he has designed for build your own planes.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

View WayneC's profile

WayneC

12268 posts in 2735 days


#16 posted 07-14-2007 03:59 PM

Back on the shoulder plane topic. I went to FWW to subscribe and saw this video on how to tune a shoulder plane. It does not require membership.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=27065

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#17 posted 07-14-2007 06:19 PM

Off topic again – Douglas – the LN bench planes are based on the Stanleys…

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View TheGravedigger's profile

TheGravedigger

963 posts in 2661 days


#18 posted 07-15-2007 07:22 PM

Doug: Late nights in the shop were responsible for my trip to the ER with a bandsaw bite. Get your rest—it’s not worth it.

Chris: Removal of the mouth section on the LV large shoulder plane will give you a chisel plane with a depth capacity of 3/4”. Whaddya know? I was right the first time!

-- Robert - Visit my woodworking blog: http://littlegoodpieces.wordpress.com

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

176 posts in 2606 days


#19 posted 07-15-2007 07:40 PM

Hi Chris

I have not used the new LN, so cannot comment on it. However I have the LV Medium, HNT Gordon 3/4”, and the Stanley #92 – all reviewed here:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/z_art/LVShoulder/index.asp

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View Chris 's profile

Chris

1867 posts in 2628 days


#20 posted 07-21-2007 08:32 AM

Just wanted thank everyone for posting their opinions. :)

However, I must admit that I am at an impass. On one hand I do love the LN low Angle bloack Plane my wife gave me for Christmas (wow); on the other, the LV sure has some nice features. I wish I could get my hands on both to try before I buy.

-- "Everything that is great and inspiring is created by the individual who labors in freedom" -- Albert Einstein

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#21 posted 07-21-2007 05:06 PM

Do have a Woodcraft near by? They have the LN – so you could see if you like the feel of that.

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View piper's profile

piper

101 posts in 2715 days


#22 posted 07-21-2007 05:52 PM

Ok ill admit Im new to wood working what does a sholder plane do for you? Having no planes at all Im feeling like I am really missing out on somthing. And like any tool junkie im starting to get the jones to go buy a bunch:):)

-- piper

View WayneC's profile

WayneC

12268 posts in 2735 days


#23 posted 07-21-2007 06:17 PM

They are used to trim the shoulders of a tenon for mortice and tenon joints. They can also be used to clean-up rabbets and dadoes.

Some photos here

http://www.hntgordon.com.au/planingtenons.htm

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#24 posted 07-21-2007 06:21 PM

trims up tenon cheeks and shoulders to fit mortises and can be used for many many other purposes – see the intro to this FWW article. – or the whole thing if you have membership. Also, check out the links above and Gravedigger's post

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View Douglas Bordner's profile

Douglas Bordner

3963 posts in 2701 days


#25 posted 07-21-2007 06:40 PM

Also useful to clean up any mismatch of moulding at a mitered corner. The draw with a shoulder plane is that the blade extends right to the edge of the plane’s sole, so it will work into a right angle. In chisel plane mode it can plane forward into the 90┬░ intersection of two (geometric) planes. Part of the comment above about bull-nosed plane mode refers to the fact the with the nose of the plane removed, part of the planes body is still there hanging 3/4╦Łabove the blade. Lie-Nielsen has a true chisel plane which allows cleaning up into the corner inside a box (useful for removing glue squeeze out after gluing a box (drawer box in cabinetry) together. I’ve long admired that plane from afar.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

View WayneC's profile

WayneC

12268 posts in 2735 days


#26 posted 07-21-2007 07:08 PM

Also, a shoulder plane would not normally be a first plane.

In my opionion you should start with a low angle block plane. An old Stanley 60 1/2 or 65 would be a good place to start. If your wanting to invest a bit more (~$135.00 on sale) then look to a Lie-Nielson version of the 60 1/2.

Stanley 65 and Lie-Nielson 60 1/2

Next would be a Stanley #5 Jack plane. I suggest an old stanley with a pair of 1902 patent dates behind the frog or at least 1 1910 patent dates behind the frog. (quick and easy guideline. I’ll go into more detail if asked). Then I would look for a #7 or #8 Jointer plane and finally a #4 or #4 1/2 smoothing plane. Some info on bench planes can be found here….

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm

After that, I would branch out out further…

I would be interested to hear what others think.

-- We must guard our enthusiasm as we would our life - James Krenov

View piper's profile

piper

101 posts in 2715 days


#27 posted 07-21-2007 08:07 PM

Thanks I will be reading all of the links it just there is so much for us new bees to learn What a great group to learn it from

-- piper

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#28 posted 07-22-2007 03:01 AM

Wayne – I think you’re right on the money…and,

I think a shoulder plane is warranted any time a person is going to be truing up a bunch of tenons (cheeks and shoulders)...and knows that they will do more of this work in the future; all the other functions of the plane are real bonuses, in addition to its primary purpose. Further, the size of the first shoulder plane to purchase will be an individual decision, though the scope/size of the work should be considered…

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View Chris 's profile

Chris

1867 posts in 2628 days


#29 posted 07-22-2007 05:42 AM

I picked up the older #5 first then a #4, and last year lucked into an old #8 and #3 at the same time.

I do agree with Wayne. Get a good block plane; then a #5. I use those two more than the rest.

-- "Everything that is great and inspiring is created by the individual who labors in freedom" -- Albert Einstein

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#30 posted 07-22-2007 08:08 AM

Chris – where are you currently with you shoulder plane thoughts?

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View Chris 's profile

Chris

1867 posts in 2628 days


#31 posted 07-22-2007 08:27 PM

Dorje,

I am leaning toward the LV Medium. There is a Woodcraft locally that stocks the LN’s; I am going to get a look at them later this week. My question now is if I should be looking at a medium or large shoulder plane.

I have the following porjects pending that may influence that decision:
Workbench (Finally!)
Desk (for me)
3 bookshelves
Mantle Headboard
Garden Bench
Cedar & Copper Trellis

-- "Everything that is great and inspiring is created by the individual who labors in freedom" -- Albert Einstein

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#32 posted 07-22-2007 09:30 PM

If your next project up is the workbench, you may want to start with the large! (like Gravedigger did)

(not to make your decision any easier!)

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View TheGravedigger's profile

TheGravedigger

963 posts in 2661 days


#33 posted 07-23-2007 11:33 PM

I’ve been really surprised at how much control I have with the LV large. If you set the blade up right, sharpen it well, and use a fine mouth opening, you can really achieve some delicate cuts. It looks like most of your projects will involve fairly large tenons (relatively speaking) and the 1 1/4” width will give a good bearing surface for trimming the cheeks parallel with fewer overlapping passes.. The only problem might be with the shoulders of fairly short (<1><chuckle> I guess that’s why they make so many planes—making this discussion necessary.

-- Robert - Visit my woodworking blog: http://littlegoodpieces.wordpress.com

View Chris 's profile

Chris

1867 posts in 2628 days


#34 posted 08-03-2007 01:11 AM

Just an update… I finally made it over to the local woodcraft store and got my hands on the LN SHoulder plane. It does seem to be a bit uncomfortable to wield. It seems that all of your advice and the hands on with the LN have convinced me to go with the LV.

Thanks Everyone!

-- "Everything that is great and inspiring is created by the individual who labors in freedom" -- Albert Einstein

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#35 posted 08-03-2007 07:24 AM

lv…medium or large?

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

View Chris 's profile

Chris

1867 posts in 2628 days


#36 posted 08-03-2007 03:06 PM

Dorje,

I think it will be the large due to the projects I have pending.

-- "Everything that is great and inspiring is created by the individual who labors in freedom" -- Albert Einstein

View Dorje's profile

Dorje

1763 posts in 2634 days


#37 posted 08-03-2007 07:46 PM

sounds great!

-- Dorje (pronounced "door-jay"), Seattle, WA

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