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View rwe2156's profile

Chinese Plywood

by rwe2156
posted 04-23-2015 05:45 PM


21 replies so far

View SirIrb's profile

SirIrb

1239 posts in 1046 days


#1 posted 04-23-2015 05:47 PM

If it smells acidic it may be a formaldehyde based glue. I remember breaking bunks of lauan open when i was a teen working at a lumber year. Stuff would knock you off your feet.

-- Don't blame me, I voted for no one.

View MT_Stringer's profile

MT_Stringer

3105 posts in 3047 days


#2 posted 04-23-2015 05:49 PM

Did it de-laminate when you cut it?

-- Handcrafted by Mike Henderson - Channelview, Texas

View Daruc's profile

Daruc

460 posts in 948 days


#3 posted 04-23-2015 05:54 PM

It smells funny because of the wood being used, not the glue.

”$42/sheet vs $72 for domestic so what are we supposed to do, go broke?”

It costs a lot more to re-do something…. (Buy domestic)

-- -

View Oosik's profile

Oosik

126 posts in 1499 days


#4 posted 04-23-2015 05:58 PM

A lumber yard here told me the Chinese are getting better at producing birch ply, but still haven’t gotten it down solid. Maybe one day?

View Daruc's profile

Daruc

460 posts in 948 days


#5 posted 04-23-2015 06:02 PM



A lumber yard here told me the Chinese are getting better at producing birch ply, but still haven t gotten it down solid. Maybe one day?

- Oosik


Chinese can make any quality you want, we get crap because that is what our distributors want to buy so they can make bigger profit margins.

-- -

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1127 posts in 1040 days


#6 posted 04-23-2015 06:09 PM

The HD here is using birch ply from China. I prefer it over the stuff they have been selling the past few years before.
There is some really nice grain and character in a lot of the sheets.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1127 posts in 1040 days


#7 posted 04-23-2015 06:10 PM


A lumber yard here told me the Chinese are getting better at producing birch ply, but still haven t gotten it down solid. Maybe one day?

- Oosik

Chinese can make any quality you want, we get crap because that is what our distributors want to buy so they can make bigger profit margins.

- woodust

Don’t tell that to my wife, who is Chinese, that they can make better quality. If something breaks, she immediately says it must have been made in China, haha.

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1051 posts in 1851 days


#8 posted 04-23-2015 06:19 PM

The bunks of Chinese birch ply (prefinished) that I get are wrapped in a couple layers of cardboard and umpteen zillion steel bands. Stamped right on the side of the bunk is a note saying it’s made with formaldehyde.
When you have glue in the formaldehyde, it allows a lot of open time. The reason for this is that they lay up the flitches by hand, and if they have gaps, they can cut a filler by hand and insert it.
The other thing that goes on is that the core flitches are wet when glued up, then the whole mess is put together with high pressure and high heat (to cure the glue and the wood). During the process of making a single core, this may happen several times before it reaches the final thickness and it is ready for the outer veneer.
And of course you never know exactly WHAT kind of wood is going into this stuff.
And yep, we use it all the time… I don’t like it, but it’s the least expensive prefinished ply.

-- "woodworker with an asterisk"

View Ghidrah's profile

Ghidrah

667 posts in 1038 days


#9 posted 04-23-2015 06:36 PM

Woodlust,
That’s somewhat true, when a company asks for a particular product and delivers the instructions required to produce the item then said company is at fault. This can occur when the process has not been outlawed in the country of delivery. It can also occur when there are no laws in the country of origin regarding the process. melamine in pet food and lead in baby toys wasn’t an issue in China. The drywall glut in the US between 05 to 07 caused the industry to purchase much cheaper already existing drywall from China. This caused a disaster in the southern US where the drywall was causing illness and electrical problems. The off gassing was eating the electrical connections and in particular causing big issues with coolant device tubing.

This didn’t seem to be as big an issue prior to NAFTA and the US gov allowing big business to close and relocate it’s factories to underdeveloped/ 3rd world countries. Personally, the only ones truly profiting from this is the govs in these countries and the stock holders here. The American worker and consumer ends up in lower paying jobs and with junk that might last a year or 2 before it dies or worse.

It’s hard to find products made in the US anymore and harder still to find products built with the ethics and quality that existed 30 plus yrs ago.

-- I meant to do that!

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

4416 posts in 3059 days


#10 posted 04-23-2015 06:49 PM

The problem as I see it is; people want the highest quality, but at the lowest price. We put cost before quality. Companies oblige us by outsourcing to 3rd world countries. Stock holders clamor for higher dividends so companies maintain high dividends by lowering the cost which results in lower quality. It’s a vicious circle.

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2302 posts in 1661 days


#11 posted 04-23-2015 07:07 PM



Woodlust,
That s somewhat true, when a company asks for a particular product and delivers the instructions required to produce the item then said company is at fault. This can occur when the process has not been outlawed in the country of delivery. It can also occur when there are no laws in the country of origin regarding the process. melamine in pet food and lead in baby toys wasn t an issue in China. The drywall glut in the US between 05 to 07 caused the industry to purchase much cheaper already existing drywall from China. This caused a disaster in the southern US where the drywall was causing illness and electrical problems. The off gassing was eating the electrical connections and in particular causing big issues with coolant device tubing.

This didn t seem to be as big an issue prior to NAFTA and the US gov allowing big business to close and relocate it s factories to underdeveloped/ 3rd world countries. Personally, the only ones truly profiting from this is the govs in these countries and the stock holders here. The American worker and consumer ends up in lower paying jobs and with junk that might last a year or 2 before it dies or worse.

It s hard to find products made in the US anymore and harder still to find products built with the ethics and quality that existed 30 plus yrs ago.

- Ghidrah


NAFTA is Can., US, & Mex. does it have provisions that affect other trade deals? If it does it is misnamed.

-- I always suspected many gun nuts were afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View Woodbum's profile

Woodbum

798 posts in 2881 days


#12 posted 04-23-2015 07:59 PM

Rob is right. The North America Free Trade Agreement probably has little to do with all of the Chinese trash foisted off on us. But then again we have sold them stuff that the FDA won’t let companies sell here in the US. As long as the American consumer clamors for cheap stuff and continues to buy it, American companies can’t compete with the substandard, poorly manufactured from cheap materials by unbelievably low paid workers (by American standards) stuff that China churns out. If we want better, American made goods; we must be willing to pony up for them.

-- "Now I'm just another old guy wearing funny clothes"

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4399 posts in 3558 days


#13 posted 04-23-2015 08:38 PM

I have found a lot of delamination in the thinner ply.

I have some 1/4 inch oak ply for drawer bottoms bought from menards. The glue is a red/fuschia color. I find 1 inch wide offcuts, will delaminate for 2-3 inches when I would flex these.
I haven’t had the issue with 3/4 or 1/2 inch stuff, but it doesn’t flex much either.

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

View Ghidrah's profile

Ghidrah

667 posts in 1038 days


#14 posted 04-23-2015 10:26 PM

Do you hear that giant sucking sound?

Ring a bell?

NAFTA was the impetuous of the great rush. I’m sure there’s a bunch of members here that were lucid in the late 80s and early 90s. If so, I’d bet dimes to dollars they may also remember Ross Perot, he was an also ran for president. Perot was an industrialist and a bloody rich individual, a Texan and ran as an independent in 92, (oxymoron or what?). Many thought he was loony, because he was against NAFTA; many thought Alvin Toffler was a nut job too. But both seem to have made predictions that hold up to time.

[Quote]
In the second 1992 Presidential Debate, Ross Perot argued:

We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. It’s pretty simple: If you’re paying $12, $13, $14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory South of the border, pay a dollar an hour for labor,...have no health care—that’s the most expensive single element in making a car— have no environmental controls, no pollution controls and no retirement, and you don’t care about anything but making money, there will be a giant sucking sound going south. ...when [Mexico’s] jobs come up from a dollar an hour to six dollars an hour, and ours go down to six dollars an hour, and then it’s leveled again. But in the meantime, you’ve wrecked the country with these kinds of deals.[Quote]

If you want to drive yourself mental begin searching for info on what loopholes US tax laws have that complicate the issue. It’s simpler and so much cheaper to move aspects of operations to foreign countries then take huge tax breaks because creative math provides data saying the Co owes much less to the US than it does. Then complain that the US is giving foreign corps better deals/breaks than themselves.
It is a vicious circle. When the government is run by the people tied to the corps helping write the laws who wins?

-- I meant to do that!

View bruc101's profile

bruc101

1197 posts in 3358 days


#15 posted 04-24-2015 12:16 AM

Stay away from China ply.

-- Bruce Free Plans http://plans.sawmillvalley.org

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

4659 posts in 1536 days


#16 posted 04-24-2015 12:37 AM

I know it’s cheaper, so it must be bad stuff. I just assumed is formaldehyde, asbestos and ground up prisoners. It definitely smells bad for you!

View JAAune's profile

JAAune

1768 posts in 2132 days


#17 posted 04-24-2015 12:54 AM

The Chinese plywood is a pain to work with in my experience. More prone to delamination and more likely to warp. The one and only batch we ordered had more waste material and required more work checking for defects.

We only use Canadian and domestic plywood now.

-- See my work at http://remmertstudios.com and http://altaredesign.com

View splatman's profile

splatman

586 posts in 1215 days


#18 posted 04-24-2015 03:01 AM



I know it s cheaper, so it must be bad stuff. I just assumed is formaldehyde, asbestos and ground up prisoners. It definitely smells bad for you!

- bigblockyeti


I wood not doubt that one bit.

View Gentile's profile

Gentile

286 posts in 1634 days


#19 posted 04-24-2015 03:16 AM

After watching the 60 Minutes expose on Lumber Liquidators I wonder what’s in that stuff…

-- "I cut it twice and it's still too short"

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2690 posts in 1296 days


#20 posted 04-24-2015 10:48 AM

I haven’t seen the delamination problem, but when I said something about Chinese to my supplier that’s the first question he asked. If you’re talking about chipping, yes I see that even with an 80 tooth DS melamine blade!!

The problem is still the same: $30/sheet more for domestic.

Guess it boils down to ‘good China’ and ‘cheap China’ kinda like HF and North Tool.

I’m gonna use domestic whenever I can.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2551 posts in 2330 days


#21 posted 04-24-2015 11:18 AM

When I worked in the furniture industry, and went to China for them, we used the stuff all the time. And it does have much higher levels of formaldehyde in it than you would imagine. Over there, making furniture, they cut it on bandsaws for the most part. Here, we use high speed CNC machines.

Ironically, the company I worked for, (I won’t name them), would not allow the stuff to be used in their American factories. We used Georgia Pacific. The Chinese factory, on the other hand, we had two choices – Chinese or Russian….and the Russian stuff made the workers noses bleed, so we used the lesser of two evils, Chinese.

Cost before quality – it’s ironic that Americans clamor for American jobs, but they STILL want that $50 microwave to be on the shelf at Walmart. Can’t have it both ways.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

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