LumberJocks

All Replies on drum sander motor issue

  • Advertise with us
View Betsy's profile

drum sander motor issue

by Betsy
posted 335 days ago


26 replies so far

View lew's profile

lew

10006 posts in 2390 days


#1 posted 335 days ago

Betsy-
Some of the reset buttons are “thermal activated”. Maybe when the motor cools down it might reset.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View ZacD's profile

ZacD

34 posts in 394 days


#2 posted 335 days ago

That sounds likely to me as well lew. What is your wiring like in your shop / house? Were you running other major appliances on other circuits?

View MarkwithaK's profile

MarkwithaK

370 posts in 1812 days


#3 posted 335 days ago

The thermal overload will trip when the motor gets hot typically due to overamping. Unplug and let it cool down then try to reset.

-- If at first you don't succeed then maybe skydiving isn't for you.

View Monte Pittman's profile

Monte Pittman

13833 posts in 973 days


#4 posted 335 days ago

The thermal idea is possible. Also, it may have reset. But if you have GFI outlets in your shop, it may have tripped it aswwell. Worth a look.

-- Mother Nature created it, I just assemble it. - It's not ability that we often lack, but the patience to use our ability

View Betsy's profile

Betsy

2914 posts in 2530 days


#5 posted 335 days ago

My dust collector and drum sander are on the same circuit with no prior problems. I did, however switched the sander to a different circuit. With no change. I’ve never heard of a thermal switch but makes sense. I’ll try again tomorrow and see what happens. If the red reset button does not reset, or the sander simply does not start what would be my next step…

Also why would the table belt run but not the drum? Could it simply not be getting enough power through the motor to run both? (I know I am now showing my lack of understanding about how motors work. I really should have paid more attention to my dad’s conversations at the dinner table growing up.) thanks for the help.

-- Like a bad penny, I keep coming back!

View tefinn's profile

tefinn

1207 posts in 1071 days


#6 posted 334 days ago

Betsy – You actually have two separate motors in your sander. One drives the belt and one the drum. The larger one in the bottom is for the drum. If you have any cooling vents on the motor, blow the motor out with your air compressor to remove any dust. The dust could be causing the motor to overheat and trip the thermal switch.

-- Tom Finnigan - Measures? We don't need no stinking measures! - Hmm, maybe thats why my project pieces don't fit.

View ZacD's profile

ZacD

34 posts in 394 days


#7 posted 334 days ago

The next step depends on how mechanically inclined you are or are how much you are willing to learn or tinker. Personally, I’d tear into the thing and have a look around. I’m not sure how the radial motion is achieved in those units. Being 15 years old could mean there is some grease that is starting to get very tacky and getting really cakey with the saw dust, gumming up axels or chains or whatever else may be moving in there.

Also, I misunderstood your issue earlier. Is the table belt moving when you turn the unit or or is it just able to freely move when you push against it? Are there any strange new buzzing sounds when you turn the unit on or does it sound quieter? Be extra careful not to leave the unit on for more than a few seconds if you do hear buzzing.

Otherwise, if the unit doesn’t turn on at all (how I previously understood), it seems more like a motor issue, rather than a drive train issue (belts. chains, gears) but it could be both in the end. You could have an overheated motor which could be from low available current (if you had other appliances on) or from over high current draw if something was ceasing up the drive train.

There are still other possibilities but these are the likeliest that come to my mind.

Edit: Also, did the table belt typically freely move and did the drum freely move prior to this? Did they both move if you moved one? Its a good possibility that the drive trains are completely separate. So it is possible that the mechanics of the drum have ceased up or it could be that the drum used some special gears that would inhibit motion by pushing on the drum.

View Blackie_'s profile

Blackie_

3378 posts in 1147 days


#8 posted 334 days ago

Is it possible that bad brushes could cause the problem she is having? I just had to replace mine on my planer.

-- Randy - If I'm not on LJ's then I'm making Saw Dust. Please feel free to visit my store location at http://www.facebook.com/randy.blackstock.custom.wood.designs

View ZacD's profile

ZacD

34 posts in 394 days


#9 posted 334 days ago

The sander uses a capacitor start, continuous run, ac induction motor. These are the quiet motors you find on your larger table saws et al. so brushes shouldn’t be an issue here. But that did make me think of one other possibility.

We have a 10” Craftsman hybrid marble top table saw at work that had an issue with its motor about 6 months ago. Investigating the matter we found that a capacitor had at some point literally caught fire and had charred the inside of its cage and a bit of the connecting wires. Quite scary to see that after the fact; of course, Craftsman were like, ‘yeah and so what, what are we supposed to do about it’ but that’s a different matter.

Anyway, definitely check the capacitor cage on the motor. If the capacitor popped or caught fire, it would have definitely caused your machine to stall out with the reset button being extended out.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

1494 posts in 355 days


#10 posted 334 days ago

When trying to reset the overload button on the motor, usually they can be pushed in and will not “catch” until the motor cools down, usually over five minutes, very rarely over 30 minutes. If the button won’t stay down, the overload switch is toast. They can be changed out, but are sometimes difficult to find a replacement, especially on a foreign made motor. A motor shop could do it for you, but after parts and labor you’d be close to the price of a new foreign made replacement or lightly used domestically manufactured motor. Checking the capacitor is a good idea too, if there is any open circuit anywhere it’s going to cause problems with either running or starting, if not both.

View Betsy's profile

Betsy

2914 posts in 2530 days


#11 posted 334 days ago

thanks for the help guys.

Zac the table moves on it’s own – no hand power required. I also do not hear any noise at all when I turn on the machine – just my mumbling when it does not work. :-)

I am not sure where brushes are in the motor – .

I’m pretty much not mechanical – but if it comes down to having to change the motor out – I should be able to do that as I managed it on my bandsaw several years back.

I have no idea what a capacitor cage should look lilke, but I’ll check my manual.

my plan of action for when I get home from work is:
Double check that I’m not on the same circuit as my dust collector
Use some compressed air to blow out the vents
Check my manual for the capacitor location (and hopefully it has a nice picture for me)
Push in the red reset button
Turn it own and cross my fingers.

Thanks again for the help. I’ll let you know how I do.

-- Like a bad penny, I keep coming back!

View Betsy's profile

Betsy

2914 posts in 2530 days


#12 posted 334 days ago

Well – got a great big nothing to report on progress. Could this be a switch issue and not the motor? How can you check if a switch is based?

Thanks all

-- Like a bad penny, I keep coming back!

View JustJoe's profile

JustJoe

1554 posts in 673 days


#13 posted 334 days ago

You can check the switch by bypassing it. Take the cover off the motor and wire a cord/plug directly to it, and plug it in the wall. If the motor runs, it’s the switch. If it doesn’t, it’s the motor.

-- This Ad Space For Sale! Your Ad Here! Reach a targeted audience! Affordable Rates, easy financing! Contact an ad represenative today at JustJoe's Advertising Consortium.

View tefinn's profile

tefinn

1207 posts in 1071 days


#14 posted 334 days ago

Betsy – Is the belt still turning when you turn it on? If it is, it’s not the main switch. As i said in my last reply, you have two separate motors in the sander. One for the belt and one for the drum. Did the reset stay in when you pushed it in? If it didn’t, then it’s a good chance the reset is bad. If it did, and tripped again, then you may have a bad capacitor or other internal motor problems.

-- Tom Finnigan - Measures? We don't need no stinking measures! - Hmm, maybe thats why my project pieces don't fit.

View lew's profile

lew

10006 posts in 2390 days


#15 posted 334 days ago

Betsy,
A bad capacitor usually causes the motor to “hum” but not start.
(I think the capacitor stores the words and when it goes bad the motor just hums the tune. I know I’m a smart ass).
Be very careful when taking stuff apart. Make some simple drawings of where the wires go and the wire colors. Make sure it is unplugged too!
You mentioned you swapped out a band saw motor. You could check the switch by pulling the wire cover on the sander motor, unhooking the black and white wire (or what ever colors go the terminals in the motor) and then connect a 120v lamp to the wires. Turn the unit on. If the light comes on, the switch is good and the problem is in the motor. No light and the problem is in the switch.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View Betsy's profile

Betsy

2914 posts in 2530 days


#16 posted 334 days ago

The table belt turns. The reset bottom won’t engage at all. Not sure if I can take the motor cover off. That is probably too physically demanding, getting up under the sander to take it off would probably tax my neck too much. These are times I really miss my Dad – he could fix anything.

-- Like a bad penny, I keep coming back!

View lew's profile

lew

10006 posts in 2390 days


#17 posted 334 days ago

got a pix of the reset button?

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View lew's profile

lew

10006 posts in 2390 days


#18 posted 334 days ago

Is this button popped out? if it is, you might have to use something like a small dowel to gently push it in far enough to engage.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View lew's profile

lew

10006 posts in 2390 days


#19 posted 334 days ago

Just looked at the manual pix of the power switch. It looks suspiciously like the same switch used on the Delta Lathe I have. I had gone through a couple of them from Delta and finally went to Lowes and got a double pole single throw house light switch (20 amp) which is still doing fine.

If the switch is bad, it will sound a little different when toggled and may even “feel” different when toggled.

Here’s a link to a replacement switch if Lowes is not the way you want to go-

http://www.circlesaw.com/power-tools/18.49-buy-the-delta-438-01-017-0206s-switch/

And here’s a link to the parts breakdown. It’s not very clear but you can view it as a PDF which is very readable. Scroll down and you can see the switch and its’ electrical connections.

http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/cgi-bin/schematic.cgi/delta/31-255X/

I can send you more detailed instructions on how to test the switch with getting electrocuted!!

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View tefinn's profile

tefinn

1207 posts in 1071 days


#20 posted 334 days ago

As I have stated twice before, this sander has two motors. If the feed belt still turns it is not the switch. Most likely if the overload will not reset, it is the overload switch. If it resets, then trips again when turned on, it is the capacitor or a shorted winding or bad internal ground. A capacitor can fail and the motor will not hum or spin slowly. Not always but it can.

-- Tom Finnigan - Measures? We don't need no stinking measures! - Hmm, maybe thats why my project pieces don't fit.

View lew's profile

lew

10006 posts in 2390 days


#21 posted 334 days ago

Actually, Tom, from the schematic diagram supplied by Delta it could be a bad switch. The belt motor just picks up the AC voltage from the “unswitched” side of the switch.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View tefinn's profile

tefinn

1207 posts in 1071 days


#22 posted 334 days ago

Yes, I can see that now. I didn’t have a diagram to see that before (should have looked it up). The power switch could be bad, but only if the overload resets, stays set when power is applied and the motor doesn’t run. However if the overload won’t reset with the power off (unplugged) it is bad. If it trips after the power is turned on the problem is inside the motor.

-- Tom Finnigan - Measures? We don't need no stinking measures! - Hmm, maybe thats why my project pieces don't fit.

View ZacD's profile

ZacD

34 posts in 394 days


#23 posted 334 days ago

I’m a little confused by that schematic. How is the dc motor switched off? The gate will always be closed, unless the motor controller is sensing current draw on the switch. If that is the case, the dc motor will never activate until a certain set threshold is met. Seems quite unnecessarily complex but without that, the dc motor would just always be on, moving the belt. I wouldn’t have guessed a switch but if there are people having to regularly replace them, seems a good and thankfully cheap bet.

View Betsy's profile

Betsy

2914 posts in 2530 days


#24 posted 334 days ago

Yeah! I thought I’d try the dowel rod that Lew mentioned. Dang it that didn’t work! I guess I just didn’t have enough gusto with just my thumb . You guys are GREAT! This makes my day. I’ll let you know if this fix lasts.

Thanks again.

-- Like a bad penny, I keep coming back!

View tefinn's profile

tefinn

1207 posts in 1071 days


#25 posted 334 days ago

You said “didn’t ” work, but it sounds like it did. If that’s the case, YAY for you! Keeping my fingers crossed that it holds.

-- Tom Finnigan - Measures? We don't need no stinking measures! - Hmm, maybe thats why my project pieces don't fit.

View Betsy's profile

Betsy

2914 posts in 2530 days


#26 posted 334 days ago

You’re right it did work.

-- Like a bad penny, I keep coming back!

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase