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View Reaper417's profile

Gas Heater

by Reaper417
posted 09-07-2013 01:56 AM


24 replies so far

View 8iowa's profile

8iowa

1493 posts in 2507 days


#1 posted 09-07-2013 02:24 AM

Many report that non vented heaters cause problems with moisture and rust. After all, the products of combustion are carbon dioxide and water.

I have a 35000 BTU Reznor gas heater, vented with the separate combustion feature. There is no exposed flame.

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

View RobertT's profile

RobertT

68 posts in 1527 days


#2 posted 09-07-2013 02:28 AM

My ventless heater will turn chemical smells into deadly fumes. I have no moisture problems.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

808 posts in 1055 days


#3 posted 09-07-2013 02:32 AM

Just my opinion.

Ventless gas heaters are for those who are to lazy to cut a couple hole in their shop. No matter how good the technology there’s always the possibility something could go wrong.

Do the math to find out how many btu you need and get a small direct vent heater.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1262 posts in 695 days


#4 posted 09-07-2013 02:35 AM

my mom has had a ventless LP heater in her shop for years it does fine. she smokes and it filters all the smoke right up the wall.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

808 posts in 1055 days


#5 posted 09-07-2013 03:06 AM

Well good for your mom.

http://www.advancedenergy.org/buildings/knowledge_library/indoor_air_quality/dangers_of_vent-free_gas_heaters.html

I just think it’s better to error on the side of safety not the side of cheap and easy.. Like I said it just an opinion..

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3203 posts in 1422 days


#6 posted 09-07-2013 03:23 AM

When I inspect a home with a ventless heater, I always put in writing that they should never operate this heater without a functioning carbon monoxide detector in place. Just good business. They advertise wall heaters and gas logs for fireplaces as ventless.

View LeeinEdmonton's profile

LeeinEdmonton

254 posts in 2328 days


#7 posted 09-07-2013 04:10 AM

I have a gas 35,000 BTU radiant tube heater in my shop. It has gone through 3 winters with days that reached -30 C temperatures. The vent is out through a side wall where condensation is also discharged. Being radiant the power tools absorb the heat leaving them rust free. Sure beats the garage heater I had with it’s fan blowing over a manifold. All shops have some dust & that garage heater & it’s fan sure dispersed it all over the shop besides busily choking itself to death. Wish I had installed the tube heater 10 yrs before I did.

Lee

-- Lee

View TDSpade's profile

TDSpade

72 posts in 1162 days


#8 posted 09-07-2013 07:06 AM

There are numerous direct vent heaters on the market, in every price range. They vent straight out the wall so you won’t have to cut a hole in your roof. You will have to cut a hole in the wall.

If you do go vent less just make sure it is equipped with a good ODS (oxygen depletion sensor). It will shut down the heater if oxygen levels drop below safe levels.

I have been in the propane business 26 years 23 as a service tech. The company I work for and many propane companies will not have anything to do with vent less heaters.

Also go with at least a 35,000 btu heater, 50,000 btu would be better. I hear it gets cold in New Jersey.

And the tube heaters Lee is talking about are good too.

-- For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert.

View jackthelab's profile

jackthelab

307 posts in 1439 days


#9 posted 09-07-2013 11:59 AM

I use a Hot Dawg vented heater by Modine in my shop. Bought it on line from some company in Nebraska. The little thing works perfectly. I have gone a couple of winters without heat and believe me I wouldn’t do it again. They have a simple chart that sizes the heater to your area on line.

-- Dave in Minnesota - If it ain't broke, improve it!

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

6044 posts in 2175 days


#10 posted 09-07-2013 12:28 PM

I use a PROCOMM wall mounted ventless propane heater in a well insulated shop. It’s the radiant type. It’s been installed about 6 years with no problems. We also use one in a large room addition to the house.
The shop is 24X36 and it heats it well. Our water pressure tank and pump are in the shop, so when night time temps get below 32, it runs on it’s lowest setting 24/7, except when I’m in the shop.
I understand the concerns about carbon monoxide. When the heater is on, a window is opened about 3”.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

2033 posts in 1240 days


#11 posted 09-07-2013 05:22 PM

Based on my experience with 2 of them, I’d suggest you skip the ventless. With the first one I had serious moisture problems, not on my tools but on the roof sheathing. That’s where it all condensed and was dripping on to the insulation above the garage (o vapor barrier in the ceiling). The second one I ran about 2 days in a place we had just bought before I tore it out and replaced it with a ceiling hung direct vent (outside air for combustion) heater.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

2746 posts in 1098 days


#12 posted 09-07-2013 06:11 PM

This is the one I have and it heats my 2 car garage very well. If you go to Northern Tool’s website they have calculator that will help you determine how many BTU’s you need.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

6044 posts in 2175 days


#13 posted 09-07-2013 07:00 PM

I’ve never had a moisture problem using the ventless heater. But then, I’m in Arizona.
In a more humid clime, I might be hesitant to use one.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View Reaper417's profile

Reaper417

40 posts in 991 days


#14 posted 09-15-2013 02:29 AM

Thanks everyone for answering me. I see I have my work cut out for me.

View Brickman's profile

Brickman

50 posts in 1117 days


#15 posted 09-15-2013 03:29 AM

Look at the Garage Guy heaters from Sterling. They can be installed with a concentric vent kit that allows them to have a sealed combustion chamber for increased efficiency and for safety in a wood shop. The best price I have found for them is here: http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/heaters4.shtml

Mark

-- Mark - Pueblo, Colorado

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

2033 posts in 1240 days


#16 posted 09-15-2013 11:40 AM

I have the one Mark linked (bought it there as well) for my 768 sq. ft. detached shop. I bought the 45K BTU model, run it on LP. Last year I used 150 gallons heating the shop; it’s at 50° when I’m not in there, and 65° (+/-) when I am (most of the time, I’m retired). The walls are R18, and the ceiling R40 in this building. I did get the direct vent kit, but it is a little pricey for what you get. If you’re handy with sheet metal you could probably make the whole thing yourself.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View reedwood's profile

reedwood

891 posts in 1422 days


#17 posted 09-15-2013 12:55 PM

In my Woodshop, (no longer a car garage) I have a regular 80K BTU house furnace that I salvaged from a remodeling job. In fact, you can see it behind me in my avatar….the one with the pin up calendar screwed to it.

Sucker heats the place up in like, 5 seconds. It’s way too much heater but the nice part is it draws the cold air off the floor compared to a unit hanging 6 ft. off the floor.

note: not to code if used for cars unless you raise it 18” – VIF

You might be able to find a decent used one. I’m sure your HVAC guy would help you make sure you get the right one. I’m certainly not qualified to make a suggestion, just wanted you to know what I have.

It seems like the consensus is….go vented. Hey, you’ve come this far, it’s not that much more work, right?

-- Mark - I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1064 posts in 1032 days


#18 posted 09-15-2013 01:54 PM

OP didn’t mention what kind of gas. Natural gas or propane?

I’ve been looking at how to add heat to my shop (16×24) and it’s important to look at energy costs in your area. If you’re doing natural gas, then that’s probably going to be the most economical, but if your choices start getting into the “propane or electric” area, then it starts getting to be a much closer contest. Where I live, propane is 2.65 to 2.79 per gallon. My electric is around 11 cents per Kilowatt hour. In my case this is almost a wash either way. So I start looking at cost of hardware (electric wins) and ease of install (electric wins) and venting (electric wins) and safety (electric wins… no flame!) and I’m really being drawn to some kind of radiant electric. If you can install a heat pump (milder climates, generally) you can really tip in favor of electric AND probably come close to natural gas (or beat it).

I had thought about putting a split ductless in my shop to have air conditioning AND heat, but cost to install and the fact that I’d be constantly changing or cleaning the filter kind of nixed that idea.

View MarkwithaK's profile

MarkwithaK

370 posts in 1924 days


#19 posted 09-23-2013 12:56 AM

I would suggest a shop type hanging heater that draws it’s combustion air from outside the building. My main reason for saying this is due to the tendency of sawdust to accumulate in the heat exchanger and burners during the months that it isn’t used.

There are several factors in choosing a suitable heater. If you get one that is too small (in terms of BTU’s) it may never shut off. Too big and you run the risk of overheating it, possibly tripping the high limit and/or eventually cracking the heat exchanger.

The square footage which you have given, but is it insulated? Standard garage type door?
What’s the typical temperatures in the winter?
Type of floor – If you’ve got a concrete slap then that has to be factored into a heat loss calc. If you only run the heat when you are in the shop then that slap is going to take a while to warm up.
How many and what types of windows?
How high is the ceiling? is it opened to the rafters?

As you can see there is no generic easy answer if you want it done correctly.

-- If at first you don't succeed then maybe skydiving isn't for you.

View MarkwithaK's profile

MarkwithaK

370 posts in 1924 days


#20 posted 09-23-2013 01:11 AM

Look at the Garage Guy heaters from Sterling.

I’ve worked in HVAC/R for 10 years and I have never had much luck with Sterling unit heaters….at least not the commercial stuff. I’ve used to have to go through them every single fall and switch out high limits that failed due to corrosion during the warmer months. Granted that was worst case scenario (they were mounted in car washes) but it was enough to shy me from Sterling completely.

I had thought about putting a split ductless in my shop to have air conditioning AND heat, but cost to install and the fact that I’d be constantly changing or cleaning the filter kind of nixed that idea.

Have you considered a P-TAC unit like the ones used in hotel/motel rooms? Entirely self-contained and all electric. Only caveat is having to frame an opening in your exterior wall.

-- If at first you don't succeed then maybe skydiving isn't for you.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1064 posts in 1032 days


#21 posted 09-23-2013 02:09 AM

MarkwithaK,
Hard to find a used PTAC around here in any kind of decent shape, but yeah, I’ve thought about it. Doesn’t scare me a bit to cut studs and frame out a hole :) Still have filters in them though if I remember right.

Right now I’d be better off with electric. My electric rates are so low that propane would have to go below $2 a gallon to be a better deal. Right now propane here is about 2.70 a gallon.
I have natural gas at the house, but I don’t want to trench all the way back to the shop.

View MarkwithaK's profile

MarkwithaK

370 posts in 1924 days


#22 posted 09-23-2013 02:27 AM

Just throwing it out there Charlie. New P-TAC prices have gone up over the past couple of years but should still be cheaper than a ductless system. I kick myself now but a few years back I had 2 that I pulled from a local hotel but I had no use for them at the time.

As far as filters are concerned it’s nothing more than you would see on a window A/C unit, plus the whole thing can be taken out and cleaned with a hose.

-- If at first you don't succeed then maybe skydiving isn't for you.

View wncguy's profile

wncguy

227 posts in 1059 days


#23 posted 09-23-2013 02:23 PM

I’m looking for something for my insulated garage (3 bay – shop area is in one which is in the back of the other 2) but didn’t want to do structural work for the PTAC unit & couldn’t see adding a high end Mitsubishi heat/cool unit for the dollars ($3,500), although they are really nice. It’s rare to be below freezing for long here in western NC & I’m comfortable working around 60 degrees so I’m thinking of adding the Frigidaire FRA18EMU2 unit in an existing window opening. It’s heat & cool, but doubt the cooling would be used much.
Hope the link works.
http://www.amazon.com/Frigidaire-FRA18EMU2-Window-Mounted-Conditioner-Supplemental/dp/B004UL816A

If anyone has had experience with this, love to hear about it.

-- Any man can be a father, but it takes someone special to be a Dad

View C_PLUS_Woodworker's profile

C_PLUS_Woodworker

500 posts in 1654 days


#24 posted 09-23-2013 06:12 PM

Did this last year…..........best money spent and best thing I have done in years

$250 for the heater (Natural Gas)

$100 for installation

Kept it on all winter 24/7 at 50 degrees (I didn’t want my equipment taking so long to warm up and work correctly).

I would turn up the heat when I went out to work. Took minutes to warm up.

And we figure it cost us about 5 bucks /month in gas.

Also put in a window air conditioner this past summer, so I am good to go all year round

-- We must all walk our own green mile

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