LumberJocks

All Replies on Blade alignment

  • Advertise with us
View phlyers's profile

Blade alignment

by phlyers
posted 07-15-2013 10:43 AM


18 replies so far

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1740 posts in 2958 days


#1 posted 07-15-2013 05:36 PM

Welcome to fine woodworking equipment made by craftsman ! Good luck with it !

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8540 posts in 3798 days


#2 posted 07-15-2013 05:52 PM

with some saws, that is just the nature of the beast. you have to align the blade to the miter saw with the most used blade height as far as I can tell.

Also , I would try to do better than 0.006” alignment of blade to miter slot – I would try to get it under 0.005”

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

1113 posts in 3762 days


#3 posted 07-15-2013 06:12 PM

Welcome to fine woodworking equipment made by craftsman ! Good luck with it !

Useless snarking. As a matter of fact, the 113 series of saws (made by Emerson for Sears) is actually a quality piece of equipment. I own one, a later model than the one he owns, and don’t experience this problem. In fact, I have not heard of this problem on this design of saw. Alignment problems like he is describing are usually associated with “twin-tube” (my phrasing, I don’t what the hell the manufacturers call it) trunnions.

You’ll find the manual for your saw here

I would check the arbor bearings, part 4 in the exploded drawing (unlikely), and the pivot pin, part 13 in the exploded drawing (more likely), for excessive wear.

I hope this is more useful than the first response you got!

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

View toolie's profile

toolie

2145 posts in 2778 days


#4 posted 07-15-2013 06:50 PM

+1 on EE’s comments. i own two emerson built 10” CI TSs and neither experience the noted problem. i’d try removing the blade and checking the arbor and the arbor flange for run out. i’d also replace the blade with a piece of 3/4” MDF (as it’s stable, rigid and dead flat). recheck the measurements to ensure it isn’t something weird about the blade. also, remember to lock the blade tilt lock lever (just above the elevation handle) prior to changing blade elevation. it won’t take much blade tilt to have it looking like the blade is moving either towards or away from the miter slot as it’s elevation is adjusted.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View phlyers's profile

phlyers

93 posts in 1936 days


#5 posted 07-15-2013 07:31 PM

Thanks guys. That’s a good idea to set the alignment at the most used height. If I can’t figure anything out I’ll just d reset the alignment to my most used height. I don’t normally change the blade angle either so hopefully this will work out.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8130 posts in 3525 days


#6 posted 07-15-2013 08:00 PM

Along the lines of Purplev’s suggestion to get it better than 0.005”....if you can’t get the blade to miter slot alignment any closer than that, just tweak the final fractions by adjusting the fence parallel to the blade. If there’s going to any deviation from perfect, it’s better to have the tail of the fence fading away from the blade than than toward to avoid binding. Put a decent blade on it, and you should be fine.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View toolie's profile

toolie

2145 posts in 2778 days


#7 posted 07-16-2013 12:04 AM

to my most used height.

hopefully, you’re aware that this is a potentially dangerous policy. freud recommends that the blade gullets just clear the top of the workpiece so sawdust can be ejected and not interfere with the cut. whenever material thickness changes, blade height should also change. pretty good comments here:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Table_Saw_Blade_Height_Above_Material.html

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View phlyers's profile

phlyers

93 posts in 1936 days


#8 posted 07-16-2013 10:49 AM

Last night I reset the alignment. I checked it at 1”, 2” and 3” blade height and got an average of .012. Better than what it was (.-30-.040) It is a new blade but nothing fancy so tonight i’ll check the blade runout. Other than that i’m happy because with the type of work that I do on it .012 really isn’t going to make my work look bad.

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

1113 posts in 3762 days


#9 posted 07-18-2013 12:06 AM

As knotscott pointed out, it’s better to have the tail of the fence fading away from the blade than than toward to avoid binding. Mine is set up that way and I haven’t suffered from kickback. But it ain’t a cure! I still don’t stand in the path of the blade.

I found the blade made a lot of difference. I originally had the old Craftsman multi-purpose blade that came with the saw, probably original. It had at least .025 to .030 runout. Diablo series blades highly recommended. I couldn’t see any addition to runout from the blade with the Diablo blade.

Now, with the Diablo, I could actually measure the runout on my arbor – just under .005 near the teeth on the blade. If I get real ambitious someday, I may take a hone and get rid of that. There are plenty of sources on the Web showing how to true up the arbor.

At different heights of the blade, with a Diablo blade, I cannot measure any difference in the alignment on my 113 saw.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

View Straightbowed's profile

Straightbowed

717 posts in 2447 days


#10 posted 07-18-2013 12:11 AM

I have my fence moving away from the blade around .020

-- Stevo, work in tha city woodshop in the country

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

1960 posts in 2178 days


#11 posted 07-18-2013 12:24 AM

as I found out on my bosch 4100 contractor’s saw.. the front tilting arbor pin assembly and bushing broke causing my table saw to be nonoperational because the blade would be nearly 1/8” closer to the fence in the rear than the front. Since I did not want to wear a sign that said “Kickbacks Welcomed” on my chest, I had to wait for the eReplacement parts to arrive a month later (darn backordered parts). It also gave me a good time to re-grease, spring clean, and re-wax everything.

Point being.. have you investigated all binding / friction points that align your blade?

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter

View phlyers's profile

phlyers

93 posts in 1936 days


#12 posted 07-18-2013 02:21 AM

Last night I re adjusted again and got it .000” BUT of course after carefully tightening the trunion bolts it moved (as I suspected) to .005” I think that’s the best it’s going to be. Once I get some cash together i’ll get a good blade.

View toolie's profile

toolie

2145 posts in 2778 days


#13 posted 07-18-2013 02:30 AM

try tightening the trunion bolts in a star pattern, gently snugging the bolts as you go. takes a bit of patience, but it is possible and, IMHO, worth the effort in terms of the safety a properly aligned blade provides.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1880 posts in 3710 days


#14 posted 07-18-2013 03:50 AM

Make the adjustments with the belt on. I found out the hard way that the alignment with belt off compared to belt on will change significantly – on contractor type saws.

-- Joe

View phlyers's profile

phlyers

93 posts in 1936 days


#15 posted 07-18-2013 04:12 AM

@ajosephg I agree. Tonight I pulled the whole assembly out. I need to start over, inspect everything and while it’s out I will take it to work and clean it real good. I found about a 1/4” of play in the arbor shaft. It moves in and out about a 1/4” so I can only assume the bearings are bad. I have to use my bearing puller to pull the pulley off the shaft so i’ll do that tomorrow. The blade had .007” of runout. My ignorance says that’s not a lot but i’m looking for .000”

The 2 motor bracket shafts (slides into the cradle assy) to adjust belt tension. How far into the cradle should they be?

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2738 posts in 2726 days


#16 posted 07-18-2013 04:22 AM

I always aim for .003” or under.
This was learned from kelly mehler’s table saw video.

What you’re going through is why I will NEVER own a table mounted trunnion saw again, even is someone offered it to me for free.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1880 posts in 3710 days


#17 posted 07-18-2013 07:00 PM

@phlyers – if your saw is like mine, the belt tension is determined by the weight of the motor hanging off its support thingy. The motor bracket that I think you are talking about should be flush with the ends of the trunnion shafts.

If your blade has 0.007 runout (which is too much) you should check the arbor flange for runout. However, if the arbor bearings are bad that is a waste of time until you get the bearings fixed.

You mentioned in your original post that you are making the measurement with calipers. IMO you can not make accurate runout measurements using calipers – you need a dial indicator.

@Nitewalker – If I had known 25 years ago what I know now, I too would have never bought a contractor saw, but a cabinet saw. So – like many others I work at keeping it tuned up as well as possible knowing that at my age I don’t have all that many years left.

-- Joe

View phlyers's profile

phlyers

93 posts in 1936 days


#18 posted 07-18-2013 11:52 PM

Joe I used calipers to align the blade to the mitre slot and the dial indicator to check the blade.

Just a little update. I pulled the cradle out and took it all apart. The “in and out” play in the arbor assy was a missing spring washer according to the diagram. So I modified it so now there isn’t any play. The bearings are fine. They aren’t worn at all so hopefully that’s all it was.

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com