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Making a Plane. Swap the knowledge

by Don W
posted 07-14-2013 12:04 PM


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218 replies

218 replies so far

View CFrye's profile

CFrye

3860 posts in 591 days


#1 posted 07-14-2013 12:27 PM

This will be a great reference . Thanks Don W. What type of plane are you making? What is the groove for? It looks relatively deep. I am reading Finck’s book, just haven’t gotten very far into it yet.

-- God bless, Candy

View ScottKaye's profile

ScottKaye

312 posts in 704 days


#2 posted 07-14-2013 12:31 PM

looking good…

-- "Nothing happens until you build it"

View shelly_b's profile

shelly_b

848 posts in 869 days


#3 posted 07-14-2013 12:45 PM

Thanks this helps alot! What kind of plane is this? Jack, block, etc. Also, could you tell us what the main difference between the main 3 or 4 are? I am trying to decide which I want to make, but other than size, I don’t know what seperates them. Thanks!!

View Mosquito's profile

Mosquito

5191 posts in 1043 days


#4 posted 07-14-2013 01:01 PM

Great tutorial so far Don

-- Mos - Twin Cities, MN -- Stanley #45 Evangelist - www.youtube.com/MosquitoMods

View lysdexic's profile

lysdexic

4892 posts in 1374 days


#5 posted 07-14-2013 01:02 PM

Nice tutorial

-- It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe. - Muhammad Ali

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15560 posts in 1318 days


#6 posted 07-14-2013 01:13 PM

Thank Mos & Scott/

Shelly, this will be a smoother. (OP edited for that info)

As for types. A smoother will be used for smoothing or finishing. A scraper even a finer finish and works on very difficult grain. A smoother should have a mouth of about 1/16” wide when the iron is set to cut. A scraper can be wider, a lot wider. The wider the better for getting the shavings out.

Jacks and scrubs are for rough work. The mouth can be wider and these are usually narrower. A jack is typically like a #5, about 14” long. A scrub is shorter and narrower. Both have a cambered iron, the scrub is cambered more. They will be used for dimensioning lumber, and trueing rough sawn.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View terryR's profile

terryR

3505 posts in 1059 days


#7 posted 07-14-2013 02:04 PM

Thanks for posting, Don, this is def what I’m shooting for…a simple Krenov…with pretty woods. You certainly make it look easy as pie!

After glue up, are pins usually added to hold the ‘knob’ and ‘tote’ sections in place, or is there so much surface area involved that glue is plenty strong enough?

-- tr ...see one, do one, teach one...

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15560 posts in 1318 days


#8 posted 07-14-2013 02:15 PM

Terry, glue is plenty strong. You will see some processes that use pins, but they are usually to keep everything lined up during glue up’s. In fact most of the time they are in an area to be cut off.

Another trick I learned, when gluing the sides, use a pinch of salt to keep the wood from sliding around on you. The graduals stick and hold it in place like sand would, but dissolve to nothing from the.glue.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View BBF's profile

BBF

141 posts in 590 days


#9 posted 07-14-2013 02:24 PM

Thanks for sharing this Don.

-- I've never been disappointed buying quality but I have been disappointed buying good enough.

View terryR's profile

terryR

3505 posts in 1059 days


#10 posted 07-14-2013 02:25 PM

Salt, huh? Never read of that in one of my books…

Don, you should be sainted or knighted for payment for all the knowledge you share for free! :)

Can I get an Amen?

-- tr ...see one, do one, teach one...

View ShaneA's profile

ShaneA

5452 posts in 1349 days


#11 posted 07-14-2013 02:29 PM

Amen!

Thanks again for the efforts Don.

View Brit's profile

Brit

5310 posts in 1594 days


#12 posted 07-14-2013 03:07 PM

-- Andy -- Old Chinese proverb say: If you think something can't be done, don't interrupt man who is doing it.

View Brit's profile

Brit

5310 posts in 1594 days


#13 posted 07-14-2013 03:17 PM

Great step by step Don. Very useful.

-- Andy -- Old Chinese proverb say: If you think something can't be done, don't interrupt man who is doing it.

View 7Footer's profile

7Footer

1328 posts in 699 days


#14 posted 07-14-2013 03:56 PM

Great help here thank you Don! You make it seem so simple!

What about the type of glue, which glue have you found to give the best results?

-- Hot Damnit... Your booty like two planets, go ahead and go ham sammich -

View Dallas's profile (online now)

Dallas

3203 posts in 1238 days


#15 posted 07-14-2013 04:12 PM

+14!

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15560 posts in 1318 days


#16 posted 07-14-2013 04:25 PM

I just use titebond 2 or 3.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Wally331's profile

Wally331

294 posts in 776 days


#17 posted 07-14-2013 04:53 PM

Check out this series of videos by Sumokun. He shows how to make a traditional style plane, still using a krenov style laminating technique. It takes a long time to watch them all, but it seems to be a great way of making a traditional plane without all the chopping and mortising which must be so precise.

Video 1

View RPhillips's profile

RPhillips

788 posts in 587 days


#18 posted 07-14-2013 06:56 PM

Don W, thank you so much, I appreciate the walkthrough. I’m feeling a little more confident now. I’m still going to make a mock up from a piece of reclaimed oak first tho.

-- Rob - Indianapolis IN - Learning... one mistake at a time...

View CFrye's profile

CFrye

3860 posts in 591 days


#19 posted 07-14-2013 07:20 PM

What is the groove (in the wood body) for in pics 6, 7 and 8? I understood TerryR was asking about the knob and tote that are sometimes added after the body glue up?

-- God bless, Candy

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15560 posts in 1318 days


#20 posted 07-14-2013 07:28 PM

Hah Rob, your doing a mock up in reclaimed oak and I made my plane in reclaimed chestnut. I just planed 2 pieces of reclaimed oak to make a jointer like Mos’s. If you guys haven’t seen Mos’s blog yet, its the cool place to be.

The groove is for the cap screw head. Other wise the iron wouldn’t sit flat.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Wally331's profile

Wally331

294 posts in 776 days


#21 posted 07-14-2013 07:30 PM

The groove in pics 6,7 and 8 is so that the screw on the cap iron could recess into the bed. If you use a very thick iron, as is often used in traditional wood body planes, you often don’t need a cap iron- and the groove doesn’t need to be cut.

View Mosquito's profile

Mosquito

5191 posts in 1043 days


#22 posted 07-14-2013 07:35 PM

CFrye Terry was referring to wooden pins that go across the plane from side to side (all the way through). They’re usually 1 or 2 all the way in the front (“knob section”) and 1 or 2 all the way in the back (“tote section”)

What he was referring to was the 2 pieces of wood that are held between the two side pieces, one being the “knob piece” (or the toe) and one being the “tote piece” (or the heal). Sometimes pins are used to hold things in alignment during glue up. This shows what he was asking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVBdPadFOtw&t=1m

-- Mos - Twin Cities, MN -- Stanley #45 Evangelist - www.youtube.com/MosquitoMods

View CFrye's profile

CFrye

3860 posts in 591 days


#23 posted 07-14-2013 08:43 PM

Groove-check
Knob piece, tote piece-check and check!
Thanks!

-- God bless, Candy

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1902 days


#24 posted 07-15-2013 12:27 AM

Salt! Sweet trick, I’m going to try that!

Great reference Don, thanks for putting this together. Your putting me to shame as swap moderator.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View AnthonyReed's profile (online now)

AnthonyReed

5087 posts in 1191 days


#25 posted 07-15-2013 02:54 AM

Thank you Don.

-- ~Tony

View widdle's profile

widdle

1474 posts in 1750 days


#26 posted 07-15-2013 03:24 AM

Don…Your a wiz…good work..

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4506 posts in 1131 days


#27 posted 07-15-2013 04:10 AM

Another trick I learned, when gluing the sides, use a pinch of salt to keep the wood from sliding around on you. The graduals stick and hold it in place like sand would, but dissolve to nothing from the.glue.

Pro tip of the day right there. This is a great write up, thanks for sharing.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View carguy460's profile

carguy460

783 posts in 1086 days


#28 posted 07-15-2013 03:45 PM

Great stuff here…now its my turn to ask a stupid question!

Regarding wedges: I have seen two types of wedges – one that is solid, and one that has a “gap” in the middle…what is the difference, why would I need one with the “gap”? Function, or form?

Solid Wedge (like the one Don made in the OP, also) pic stolen from Rhett @ www.niceashplanes.com

“Gap” wedge (what’s the proper term I’m looking for?) pic stolen from Mos's build blog

-- Jason K

View JayT's profile

JayT

2633 posts in 962 days


#29 posted 07-15-2013 03:51 PM

Jason, solid wedges are used with a cross pin, the other style (I also don’t know the correct term) is used on planes without a cross pin, so the pressure is created by wedge shaped cutouts in the sidewalls. The gap is left for shavings to exit.

-- "My concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right." Abraham Lincoln

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15560 posts in 1318 days


#30 posted 07-15-2013 03:54 PM

Jason, short answer is, the first type is used with a cross bar. Since the bar is there the extra space wouldn’t help with shaving escape.

the second type is for no cross bar like Mos’s. It locks in tapered grooves in the side.

Edit JayT beat me.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View carguy460's profile

carguy460

783 posts in 1086 days


#31 posted 07-15-2013 03:54 PM

And just like that, I’ve proven how ignorant I am! Thanks JayT! I should have caught the different plane styles during my research. I’m a little dense…

Edit: Thanks to you also Don!

-- Jason K

View Mosquito's profile

Mosquito

5191 posts in 1043 days


#32 posted 07-15-2013 04:06 PM

The reason for the gap is to allow shavings to clear better. With the krenov style with the solid wedge and cross pin, the mouth isn’t usually shaped the same, or as deep as on a traditional style.

Having a solid wedge in a traditional plane would jam up the mouth pretty regularly, which would be annoying. I’m sure the wedge could be shorter and not have the gap, but since the bearing surface is just 1/4” wide abutments, I guess it could use all it can get…

Essentially, it lets the wedge get further down in the mouth with out causing too many issues with clearing shavings

-- Mos - Twin Cities, MN -- Stanley #45 Evangelist - www.youtube.com/MosquitoMods

View terryR's profile

terryR

3505 posts in 1059 days


#33 posted 07-16-2013 12:04 AM

According to Mr. Wilson, the author of Making Wood Tools the above style of wedge is called ‘Primus-Style’. He shows how to carve the wedge, and add the Abutments AFTER glue up of the central core in his book. Looks doable.

I believe a .pdf version of his book was posted a couple of days ago here or on DonW’s recent blog…

-- tr ...see one, do one, teach one...

View carguy460's profile

carguy460

783 posts in 1086 days


#34 posted 07-16-2013 01:31 PM

Thanks for the info guys! If I can ever get shop time I’m going to try to make a practice Krenov style out of Oak…so I will be using the solid style wedge. Would there be any downside to making the cross pin out of something like brass?

-- Jason K

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15560 posts in 1318 days


#35 posted 07-16-2013 01:37 PM

a brass cross pin will be fine. Just keep in mind you need to hold it in place. If you look at the Nice Ash, the pin doesn’t show on the outside so its locked in place. You can also turn it like I did the wood bar, or use some sort of pin to lock it in. All will work the same.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View mafe's profile

mafe

9687 posts in 1840 days


#36 posted 07-17-2013 10:02 AM

Exelent Don, what a lovely way to share your skills.
Best thoughts,
Mads

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

View Carll's profile

Carll

1 post in 526 days


#37 posted 07-17-2013 10:17 AM

Wow. This is a great piece of work.

-- http://snowblowermanufacturer.com/

View Greg In Maryland's profile

Greg In Maryland

422 posts in 1749 days


#38 posted 07-19-2013 04:00 PM

A question about blades.

Based on the iron planes I currently have, here are the blade widths:

Are these dimensions applicable for a wooden plane of the same type?

Thanks.

Greg

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1902 days


#39 posted 07-19-2013 04:05 PM

Greg yes, but the limitation is the size of your hand. A 2 3/8” plane plus a 1/4” (roughly ?) or so on either side can be difficult to hold. Thats why you see totes on wooden planes with wide irons. Thats what I say but I’m no expert.

I have a wooden plane with a 2” iron and it fits my hands well.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View rfusca's profile

rfusca

155 posts in 594 days


#40 posted 07-19-2013 04:09 PM

Is there a reason (beyond the fact that narrower = more passes) that you couldn’t have a 2 inch jointer? I figured the effectiveness of the jointer had to do with the length of the body more than the width of the blade.

-- Chris S., North Atlanta, GA - woodworker,DBA, cook, photographer

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1902 days


#41 posted 07-19-2013 04:15 PM

My opinion only: but I don’t see a problem with it if it’s going to be used mostly for edge jointing but I like a decent amount of camber on my jointers so for face jointing wider boards the extra width is helpful since you kind of lose width to the camber. But we are talking a difference of only 3/8”, not really a big deal. 2” would probably make a nice jointer.

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15560 posts in 1318 days


#42 posted 07-19-2013 04:46 PM

I would agree even though I don’t typically camber my jointers. The advantage to a 2 3/8” jointer is you can joint a full 2” piece, which I often do. If you were only doing 1” or 1 1/2” stock, a 2” jointer would be fine.

As Mauricio said, that width is why you don’t see a lot of krenov style jointers.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Mauricio's profile

Mauricio

6902 posts in 1902 days


#43 posted 07-19-2013 04:52 PM

You know blade width and grip are one of the reasons I think the coffin smoother makes sense; It gets around that issue somewhat by making the ends narrower. Hmm I don’t have a coffin smoother, I need to get me one …

-- Mauricio - Woodstock, GA - "Confusion is the Womb of Learning, with utter conviction being it's Tomb" Prof. T.O. Nitsch

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15560 posts in 1318 days


#44 posted 07-19-2013 05:32 PM

The problem I find with the coffin smoother is its to square to be comfortable which the krenov gets around by rounding off both ends.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Derek Cohen's profile

Derek Cohen

185 posts in 2719 days


#45 posted 07-19-2013 05:36 PM

There are complete pictorials on my website:

Building a Strike Block Plane: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaStrikeBlockPlane.html

Building a Wooden Router Plane: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaWoodenRouterPlane.html

Building a Krenov Smoother and Block Plane: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaKrenovSmoother.html

Building a Bridle Plough Plane: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BridlePloughBuild.html

Building a Jack Plane: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingAJackPlane.html

That’s about enough for now :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

-- Buildiing furniture, and reviewing and building tools at http://www.inthewoodshop.com

View terryR's profile

terryR

3505 posts in 1059 days


#46 posted 07-19-2013 06:32 PM

Awesome tools, Derek…I drool over your website all the time! Such nice attention to detail.

-- tr ...see one, do one, teach one...

View BTimmons's profile

BTimmons

2187 posts in 1236 days


#47 posted 07-19-2013 06:45 PM

I think I remember reading once that walnut isn’t quite hard enough to use as the sole of a plane. But how about the guts? I mean, the part that makes up the main body and holds the blade and wedge. Provided I use a harder wood for the sole I should be good with a mostly walnut body, right?

-- Brian Timmons - http://www.BigTWoodworks.com

View rfusca's profile

rfusca

155 posts in 594 days


#48 posted 07-19-2013 07:51 PM

Doesn’t having a separate sole create the chance that different expansion could have the body and sole crack/warp/separate?

@Derek – I was looking at your smoother from Krenov himself – http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20James%20Krenov%20Smoother.html – do you like the asymmetry on the back? I was thinking of doing something along those lines even before I saw that.

-- Chris S., North Atlanta, GA - woodworker,DBA, cook, photographer

View Greg In Maryland's profile

Greg In Maryland

422 posts in 1749 days


#49 posted 07-19-2013 09:18 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I am not going to build a jointer or jack, but rather a smoother or block plane. What would your thoughts be on a minimum size blade for a smoother? I have blades in the following widths that I can use: 2 inches, 1 3/4 inches, 1 1/2 inches and 1 1/4 inches. I am leaning towards the 1 1/2 or 1 1/4ths inch for the trade smoother and the 2 or 1 3/4ths inch for my own smoother.

Also, I am calling shotgun. If Derek decides to join the swap, I will gladly offer up my meager attempt for one of his rather stellar examples.

Greg

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15560 posts in 1318 days


#50 posted 07-19-2013 09:23 PM

Greg, my suggestion would be 1 1/2” and above for a smoother, anything less make it a block.

Thanks for the links Derek. The wood in use on those planes is outstanding.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

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