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View Iggles88's profile

Your sharpening setup

by Iggles88
posted 07-13-2013 03:26 AM


31 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

7809 posts in 2369 days


#1 posted 07-13-2013 03:37 AM

You don’t need anything special to flatten waterstones –
a drywall or floor sanding screen laid over any flat surface
does it quick. Used floor sanding screens work great.

I started out using Brian Burns’s sharpening system years
and years ago… then abandoned it and started honing
freehand with water stones for more than a decade,
eventually misplacing the stone box essential to the
Burns method.

Recently though I’ve reconsidered after watching a video
Brian put out and I’m building the rig to use the updated
Burns system.

I have a bunch of water stones but the soaking and
glazing can be a hassle, so I bought an EZE-lap super
fine recently (about 1200 water stone equivalent)
as I have owned an EZE-lap coarse for many years
and staying with same-thickness lapping plates makes
sense. The finishing stone is a Norton 8000 water stone.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View LRR's profile

LRR

25 posts in 544 days


#2 posted 07-13-2013 04:39 AM

The Paul Seller’s system – with EZE Lap (coarse, fine, xfine) and a strop from TFWW you are well under $200. Another way to go is Dan’s Whetstones. Call them and ask what they have. They often have what they consider seconds that work perfectly well for chisel and plane blades. I got a set (India, Hard, Hard Black) shipped to my door for under $200.

View AKwoodwkr's profile

AKwoodwkr

7 posts in 506 days


#3 posted 07-13-2013 05:30 AM

I use oil stones. I go from the grinder to a fine India, then a translucent Arkansas, and finally a horse butt strop with green rouge. I also use a power hone in between honing on the stones. It is a 7” laminated leather wheel with green rouge running on a half speed motor. I can re-hone several times on the power strop before I have to go back to the stones.

Jonathan

-- “It’s good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” Ursula K. LeGuin

View planeBill's profile

planeBill

480 posts in 1130 days


#4 posted 07-13-2013 03:33 PM

I use, and love these three stones, a 1200 Bester, a 5000 Suehiro Rika and an 8000 Naniwa Jyunpaku ( Snow White ). I want to add a Kitayama(sp) 8000 because it is actually a 12000 stone but labeled as an 8000 and the price is unbeatable, a Suehiro 6000 or maybe any Suehiro in a lower grit because the feel and performance of all of Suehiro’s stones Ive used is phenomenal and maybe a Naniwa 800 or a bester or beston 1000 or 800.
With the three I have though I can get a better than mirror finish on any tool I have in about 15 minutes and they are always razor sharp and that is no stretch of the truth. The Jyunpaku is a magical stone. Those three stones can be had for way less the 200 dollars from Chefknivestogo.com.

-- I was born at a very young age, as I grew up, I got older.

View Clint Searl's profile

Clint Searl

1479 posts in 1083 days


#5 posted 07-13-2013 04:05 PM

I’m with AKwoodwrkr, except for the rouge and leather wheel. I keep my stones in a kero or diesel bath.

-- Clint Searl....Ya can no more do what ya don't know how than ya can git back from where ya ain't been

View Richard's profile

Richard

400 posts in 1413 days


#6 posted 07-13-2013 04:27 PM

I’m a Naniwa Superstone fan, I use a 12000 grit as a finish stone. Probably a bit more than really needed, but I also use that same stone to sharpen my straight razors.

-- "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

View ScrubPlane's profile

ScrubPlane

187 posts in 917 days


#7 posted 07-13-2013 11:30 PM

I utilize a Veritas honing jig and the ‘scary sharp’ method. Relatively cheap and produces an extremely sharp edge. No better or worse than what the others are posting…everyone has a ‘comfort level’ and a preferred method.

View planeBill's profile

planeBill

480 posts in 1130 days


#8 posted 07-14-2013 07:45 PM

just curious but do you have a lot of freehand sharpening experience? I noticed you said that you have been using a machine to sharpen your tools lately.
Also, I think the chosera stones are much better than the supers.

-- I was born at a very young age, as I grew up, I got older.

View Dave11's profile

Dave11

27 posts in 1290 days


#9 posted 07-14-2013 08:21 PM

I started with scary sharp, then Naniwa stones, and ended up with diamond stones. Wish I’d have used those first. I gave up on scary sharp because I got tired of shuffling/buying/gluing sandpaper, though I know a lot of people love the method.

I put the Naniwas aside because I got tired of flattening them all the time.

I use the coarse, fine, and extra fine dia-sharps now, which I never need to flatten, and which cut super fast. I have a leather strop glued to a piece of plywood with green honing compound on it. I only need to use the coarse and fine for new or damaged tools, otherwise just the extra fine and the strop to re-hone a working edge. Sharpening is a snap now.

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2375 posts in 1604 days


#10 posted 07-14-2013 10:42 PM

There are as many different sharpening preferences as woodworkers; most important is finding something that is quick and convenient for you. I use 3 DMT diasharp diamond stones and then a 4000 and 8000 grit waterstone. Quick, repeatable, and no flattening of the diamond stones…I’ve also used the “scary sharp” method which is great but uses a lot of sandpaper, and a Tormek wet grinder which also is great but takes too long to set up for me to use it regularly. All three methods give me razor sharp edges but I go with what is quick and convenient.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#11 posted 07-15-2013 01:48 AM

I have a good amount of freehand sharpening. On e i realized that my worksharp was not giving me the results i expected i bought a set of 3m scary sharp films after reading brent beachs article. Ive been using that for a good a,ount of time but i just ran out and dont want to keep replacing them so often.

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#12 posted 07-15-2013 01:53 AM

Also bill im sure the chosera stones are better but the 10000 grit stone is outrageously expensive. Ill just keep buying the 3m films if im going to put out that much money. Ive pretty much realized that if i keep thinking about this extensively ill make myself crazy. If i dont go with the superstones then ill go with shapton stones. Specifically 1000 and 8000 grits. I emailed joel at tools for working wood and he seemed to really recommend the superstones but hes about the only person ive seen say that so i may just get the shaptons. Wish i could make up my mind.

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1880 days


#13 posted 07-15-2013 02:20 AM

You won’t get best results with the WS3000 without either the wide-blade attachment or the StumpyNubs mod. I’d go that direction first.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View Loren's profile

Loren

7809 posts in 2369 days


#14 posted 07-15-2013 03:15 AM

If cost is an issue, 4000 is sharp enough. Really.

Sharpening to extreme levels of polish will not eliminate
tearout of reversing grain when hand planing, only going
to a higher cutting angle will – you can do that a bit by
skewing the plane in use. Beyond that minor technique
to get through trouble spots, you’ll need to go to a plane
with a higher pitch on the blade, a blade with a back bevel
(Burns system accomplishes back beveling), or use scrapers.

I have a Makita wet grinder with a 1000 grit red water stone
on it and it makes plane irons and chisels sharp enough to
shave with. I still hone to a finer grit when I have the
time, but for a lot of work it isn’t necessary and it
certainly doesn’t solve reversing grain problems.

My sense from experience is that edges polished accurately
to the cutting edge at high levels seem to hold up a little
better between honings. This is useful in chisels used for
chopping and in plane irons.

I seldom have to flatten water stones. That’s partially because
when I sharpen freehand with them I use a figure 8 pattern.

The Burns system uses a jig in such a way that wear on the
stones is more even than most sharpening jigs allow.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#15 posted 07-15-2013 04:02 AM

I built the stumpy nubs stand already have had it since day one. Im tired of buying new sandpaper for it anyway so even if i was getting the best edge possible id still get a new system.
And loren money isnt too big of an issue, 200 dollars to me seems like it would be enough to get decent sharpening equipment. If i got shapton stones of 1000 and 8000 grits it would cost me 160 and if i got the superstones of 1000,4000, and 8000 grits it would cost me 130 so i think i have a high enough budget to get what will give me a very good edge.

View Loren's profile

Loren

7809 posts in 2369 days


#16 posted 07-15-2013 04:09 AM

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#17 posted 07-15-2013 04:14 AM

Ah loren i knew burns sounded familiar, i watched that video twice over the past few days. Im very interested in his technique but those shims seem like a pain in the ass. A little too complicated for what im looking for. Honestly i just want to hollow grind my edges and quickly freehand hone on a few stones.

View Loren's profile

Loren

7809 posts in 2369 days


#18 posted 07-15-2013 04:19 AM

The technique of freehanding on waterstones is not
easily mastered. The stones are not forgiving of technical
errors.

Japan plane irons are about 1/4” thick or thicker so
there is a larger bearing surface on the bevel which
makes freehanding easier. The narrower bevel on
irons used in Bailey pattern planes is trickier to
manage.

I’ve used Ian Kirby’s system for many, many years –
grinding a hollow bevel with a shop made tool rest
and a friable stone on a standard shop grinder,
then going to a 1200 grit stone and to a 6000 or
8000 after.

Go for it if you’re real committed to that sort of
intensity – it’s kind of like shaving with a straight
razor…. one slip and you (the stone) get cut. The
stones don’t heal unfortunately.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#19 posted 07-15-2013 04:27 AM

I appreciate what your saying but im very confident of my ability to sharpen freehand, ive been doing it for a while with very good results and more importantly consistent results. The only reason i want to get the stones is because im tired of replacing the 3m honing films.

View planeBill's profile

planeBill

480 posts in 1130 days


#20 posted 07-15-2013 12:50 PM

I keep loosing service. I agree that the chosera stones are a little more than most others but they say they don’t dish as much so less maintainance time. I personally haven’t spent enough time with them to determine for myself. Also, some of the lower grit chosera stones aren’t as much as the higher grits. Again, I really want to encourage you to try a Naniwa Jyunpaku 8000. I really don’t see ANY reason to buy another finish stone. Splash and go (maybe a 15 min soak), stays flat, mirror finish and FAST. I know I said I want a Kitayama 8000 but that is for my own curiosity. All reports is that it is a 12000 in disguise and its cheap.
Please take my opinions with a grain of salt as I have just recently began experimenting with waterstones but I do find them fascinating and fun and the choices endless. Theyre almost like chisels, I keep finding ones I like and not always the big brand names either. Mark at CKTG is a fantastic resource for waterstones. He has certainly never steered me wrong.
Scary sharp system is as good as any for sure though. I certainly liked it when I was using it. Oilstones work, used them too. One method I have never used is a machine sharpening method like worksharp or tormek or whatever they are called. I may be a little different but I really like sharpening and sharpening by hand especially.

-- I was born at a very young age, as I grew up, I got older.

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#21 posted 07-15-2013 04:37 PM

bill where can i buy the stone you are referrring to?

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#22 posted 07-15-2013 04:41 PM

i just looked online and seen that the stones are only 1×6? im not sure if thats the only one available but that seems too small. ive made this more complicated then i wanted it to be so i want to make a decision today and place an order.

View planeBill's profile

planeBill

480 posts in 1130 days


#23 posted 07-15-2013 07:18 PM

If you mean the Jyunpaku , mine is 2 3/4’ x 7 7/8” x 1” and you can buy it at chef knives to go. Mark is a great guy to do biz with. In fact, all of my stones come from Mark. The Naniwa Jyunpaku is also refered to as the Snow White. You wont be sorry. Just be sure to buy a few stones to go in progression with it. Like I said I use a Bester 1200, a Suehiro Rika and then the Naniwa stone. Im not saying that these three are the only stones out there but it is a mighty fine combination. Good Luck and let me know how it goes. Be sure to look at the Kitayama too.
Notice: Just looked at CKTG and Mark has a nice sale going on right now. You can get the Kitayame 8000 (12000) for $78, the snow white is now $94. Still a good price for the caliber stone you are getting but at that price I would go with the Kitayama no question.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/nasnwh8.html

-- I was born at a very young age, as I grew up, I got older.

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#24 posted 07-15-2013 11:23 PM

Thanks bill, i appreciate you taking the time to continue the conversation and i think im going to take your advice. To ,e as long as im getting the best edge i can get then ill spend the money. So based on that which of the two finishing stones would you go with? The kitayame if it really acts like a 12000 then it might not be for me. Also i would really like to get away with just two stones. If i get my stones and find i need a third ill get one but for now would the bester 1200 and snow white 8000 work well?

View planeBill's profile

planeBill

480 posts in 1130 days


#25 posted 07-16-2013 01:37 AM

I can only speak confidently on the Snow White because Ive used it and will say that it is everything I NEED. I haven’t used the Kitayama but sure would like to try it. Mark says it is a real nice stone. The SW will give you everything you NEED too and it is a real hard stone that doesn’t dish. Its a hard smooth stone. But, haven’t you ever just wanted to push something as far as you could just to see what its all about? Now I know that there is a whole other level of “fine” out there and I don’t mean to sit here and say that these stones are the best of the best, theyre not, J Nats of the 20000 to 30000 grit range exist and they are scary expensive. These stones that I am referencing here on the other hand are some what affordable.
I would be a little leery of going from the 1200 to the SW without another step in there somewhere. The three stones I am speaking about can be had for a light $200 and you will get free shipping from Mark. Besides, the Suehiro stones are a super experience. On feel alone Suehiro stones are the best I have used. A very organic experience. I don’t have a lot of experience with J Nats but Stuart T says that Suehiro stones are as close you can get to the natural stone feel and behavior in a synthetic stone. The Rika is a fine addition to the Bester and the SW. I really think that if you get these three as a set you will be happy. You could go with the arashiyiama 6000 which is also known as the Takenoko 8000, its got a nice range if you want to forego the Suehiro Rika.
These three work well on my A2 tools, my old vintage high carbon tools (chisels and planes) and really shine (no pun intended) on my Japanese chisels so I don’t see how you can loose as they seem to do just fine on all kinds of steels.
Man, giving people, and having people follow, advice is sort of scary. I somehow feel obligated and responsible.
Keep me posted.

-- I was born at a very young age, as I grew up, I got older.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6960 posts in 1635 days


#26 posted 07-16-2013 01:27 PM

Here is an alternative for you, a belt sharpening system, that will set you back only ~$100-$120 to build. I have used it BOTH for sharpening turning tools and chisels.

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3179

And on the buffing wheel I use the ‘green’ paste that I believe is about 10,000-grit. I can get mirror finishes if I want to take the time. I find that that is not necessary, so I end up with very quickly very sharp tools and more time to spend actually working with them. To be honest, I have not needed to go beyond 180-grit since a belt actually sharpens much better than the size of the “grit” would indicate. Sanding belts are available form 60 to 600-grit

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#27 posted 07-16-2013 08:44 PM

Thamks for the suggestion mike it seems like it would work well but im looking to get away from machines and go to stones, i dont want to use sandpaper that needs to be replaced all the time. When i began woodworking i coulsnt understand why people would use anything but a worksharp or the like and after using one i definitely understand.

View planeBill's profile

planeBill

480 posts in 1130 days


#28 posted 07-29-2013 12:43 AM

So Iggles, What is the status of your sharpening gear? Any new equipment to speak of?

-- I was born at a very young age, as I grew up, I got older.

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#29 posted 07-29-2013 02:06 AM

Hey Bill thanks for checking in, after listening to all of the recommendations and talking to a few of my woodworking friends I decided to see if the equipment I had could give me good enough results to continue on with what I had so I tried using a combo of my grinder, lapping film and worksharp together in one and I know everyone says this but I don’t think I myself could get a better edge then the one I’m getting now. I start myself with the grinder for the hollow grind at the angle I want then go to 15, 5, then .3 lapping film and finish off with the leather wheel on my worksharp. I could probably switch from the lapping film to moving through the grits on the worksharp but the film is so fast coming off the grinder, within two minutes I have an edge ready to go. I am going to give water stones a shot very soon but right now I’m switching the woodworking budget money to a router plane instead of the stones.

View planeBill's profile

planeBill

480 posts in 1130 days


#30 posted 07-29-2013 09:13 PM

Well, best of luck whichever rout(er) you take. An edge is an edge, no matter how you get it.

-- I was born at a very young age, as I grew up, I got older.

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1082 days


#31 posted 07-29-2013 09:25 PM

Thanks bill, I really do appreciate all your help and have not forgotten your advice the stones you recommended are the ones I will be buying as soon as I take the plunge.

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