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View donaldpmoran's profile

How do you measure 90

by donaldpmoran
posted 06-23-2013 12:24 AM


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76 replies

76 replies so far

View Dallas's profile

Dallas

3057 posts in 1182 days


#1 posted 06-23-2013 12:30 AM

I put my accurate square or triangle on the table and against the blade.
Any daylight anywhere on the blade means there is an angle other than 90°

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

View waho6o9's profile (online now)

waho6o9

5111 posts in 1272 days


#2 posted 06-23-2013 12:32 AM

1, 2, 3 block

View DIYaholic's profile

DIYaholic

13814 posts in 1370 days


#3 posted 06-23-2013 12:38 AM

Wixey Digital Angle Cube….

-- Randy-- I may not be good...but I am slow! If good things come to those who wait.... Why is procratination a bad thing?

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

11264 posts in 1385 days


#4 posted 06-23-2013 12:47 AM

I used to use those plastic drafting triangles but I am much more accurate with my digital angle gauge from WC.

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

View lynng's profile

lynng

11 posts in 1171 days


#5 posted 06-23-2013 12:58 AM

Oneway multi-gauge

-- Lynn, Trenton Maine

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1056 posts in 981 days


#6 posted 06-23-2013 12:59 AM

digital angle cube

View waho6o9's profile (online now)

waho6o9

5111 posts in 1272 days


#7 posted 06-23-2013 01:07 AM


Never heard of a Oneway multigauge until now.
Thanks for the information Lynn, looks like a mighty fine gauge.

View MT_Stringer's profile

MT_Stringer

2021 posts in 1926 days


#8 posted 06-23-2013 01:11 AM

Digital angle gauge.

-- Handcrafted by Mike Henderson - Channelview, Texas

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

1387 posts in 952 days


#9 posted 06-23-2013 01:15 AM

I use a Beall Tilt Box.

-- Art

View tomd's profile

tomd

1775 posts in 2465 days


#10 posted 06-23-2013 01:48 AM

I-gage angle finder.

-- Tom D

View wunderaa's profile

wunderaa

193 posts in 897 days


#11 posted 06-23-2013 02:22 AM

Engineer’s square

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1272 days


#12 posted 06-23-2013 02:25 AM

Either my starrett combo square or one of my lee valley (pec tools) double squares; whichever is closer.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View JayT's profile (online now)

JayT

2434 posts in 906 days


#13 posted 06-23-2013 02:26 AM

Used to use a plastic speed square, now use a Wixey digital angle gauge. It’s one of the best woodworking investments I’ve made.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

View ajosephg's profile (online now)

ajosephg

1854 posts in 2256 days


#14 posted 06-23-2013 03:19 AM

digital angle cube

-- Joe

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

895 posts in 2308 days


#15 posted 06-23-2013 03:30 AM

Square. Just a square. I maintain all my woodworking equipment with just a square. A good square.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

View macatlin1's profile

macatlin1

56 posts in 1638 days


#16 posted 06-23-2013 12:08 PM

I made a small block with a dial indicator mounted to it and a small round head screw screwed in below the indicator probe. To use I push it against the blade (lightly) and zero the indicator then do the other side of the blade. If the readings match then the blade is 90 degrees to the table. If the readings don”t match then I tilt until half the error is removed and re-test the other side. Probably takes 30 seconds and best of all I don’t have to bend over to do the process.

View bannerpond1's profile

bannerpond1

247 posts in 593 days


#17 posted 06-23-2013 12:53 PM

Digital angle guide by Wixey. Reads one tenth of a degree. It’s especially good for 45’s when making mitered corner boxes. Available at Rockler’s and Woodcraft.

-- --Dale Page

View teejk's profile

teejk

1215 posts in 1379 days


#18 posted 06-23-2013 01:49 PM

Having difficulty with what I thought was an accurate combo square, I started using my Bosch digital angle finder. The longer legs help a lot for and it reads in .1” increments.

View ChuckV's profile

ChuckV

2440 posts in 2222 days


#19 posted 06-23-2013 01:56 PM

If you want the Wixley, be sure to shop around. For instance, the lower priced WR300 currently costs:
Woodcraft and Rockler: $39.99 + shipping = $48.98
Amazon: $26.67 + free shipping = $26.67

-- “While the world with closed eyes sleeps, The sky knows and weeps - steel rain. ” ― Nathan Bell

View tool_junkie's profile

tool_junkie

238 posts in 1224 days


#20 posted 06-23-2013 02:43 PM

I don’t mean to hijack the thread but since the digital angle cube is mentioned here, I thought I would ask… what is the best technique to use angle cube on a table saw blade? The way I have done it so far is to extend the blade to its maximum height, put the cube on the table and zero it out, then put it close to the highest point of the blade and adjust the bevel. But this creates a moment due to the weight of the cube being so far away from the center and causes the blade to move. Any ideas on how to avoid this?

-- Looking for a good quality Drill Press and a Cabinet Saw for cheap!

View toolie's profile

toolie

1769 posts in 1323 days


#21 posted 06-23-2013 03:00 PM

causes the blade to move

never had that happen to me, and i use that very same technique. i am, however, using full kerf blades.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View ChuckV's profile

ChuckV

2440 posts in 2222 days


#22 posted 06-23-2013 03:37 PM

tool_junkie,

If that happens, I suppose you could get the bevel set pretty close and then put a piece of scrap wood against the blade to hold it from rotating for the final fine adjustment.

I’m assuming you are talking about the blade rotating on the arbor. If you are talking about it bending the blade, I guess that’s a different problem.

-- “While the world with closed eyes sleeps, The sky knows and weeps - steel rain. ” ― Nathan Bell

View tool_junkie's profile

tool_junkie

238 posts in 1224 days


#23 posted 06-23-2013 05:10 PM

ChuckV,

Yep, I am talking about the blade rotating on the arbor.

I will try the technique you mentioned.

Thanks!

-- Looking for a good quality Drill Press and a Cabinet Saw for cheap!

View EPJartisan's profile

EPJartisan

1079 posts in 1820 days


#24 posted 06-23-2013 05:54 PM

I am kinda shocked, everyone is talking about the cool tools they have…
I just cut two pieces of wood on the saw, put them on a flat surface.. like table saw i am using… and face them together if there is a space I adjust the saw angle… no space.. perfect 90 degrees. :)

-- " 'Truth' is like a beautiful flower, unique to each plant and to the season it blossoms ... 'Fact' is the root and leaf, allowing the plant grow and bloom again."

View steliart's profile

steliart

1808 posts in 1383 days


#25 posted 06-23-2013 06:25 PM

Digital angle cube
but also as a designer I have few accurate 90 plastic triangles that I trust very much and even check with those the accuracy of the digital cube LOL So if you don’t have a cube get a good triangle and it will not failed you

-- Stelios L.A. Stavrinides: - I am not so rich to buy cheap tools, but... necessity is the mother of inventions - http://www.steliart.com --

View Jim Finn's profile

Jim Finn

1706 posts in 1617 days


#26 posted 06-23-2013 06:29 PM

Wixey

-- In God We Trust

View madts's profile

madts

1282 posts in 1035 days


#27 posted 06-23-2013 06:52 PM

This is what I use.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/84217

-- Thor and Odin are still the greatest of Gods.

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

3507 posts in 2655 days


#28 posted 06-23-2013 06:58 PM

Starrett 4’ square, then I often cross-check with a drafting square. That way I’m double sure.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View muleskinner's profile

muleskinner

682 posts in 1132 days


#29 posted 06-24-2013 12:11 AM

I’m in the Eric P. school. Run a piece of wood through the saw to make two pieces. Flip one piece over. Place cut edge to cut edge. Examine joint.

-- Visualize whirled peas

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3806 posts in 2063 days


#30 posted 06-24-2013 12:23 AM

An engineering square or drafting triangle is all you really need!

For checking parallelism to your miter slots you can use a pencil taped to the miter head while touching the front of the blade and then rotate the blade manually to the rear and see if the pencil marks the same spot.

Or, if you have a dial indicator you can use that instead of the pencil.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4186 posts in 1075 days


#31 posted 06-24-2013 06:59 AM

Ditto madts, this is the fastest way I’ve tried, and very accurate.

Click for details

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3806 posts in 2063 days


#32 posted 06-24-2013 05:36 PM

Rick, madts you have got to be kidding! You are increasing your chance of error, why not use the square directly?

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Earlextech's profile (online now)

Earlextech

1001 posts in 1385 days


#33 posted 06-24-2013 06:04 PM

I have used the flip method for decades – recently I bought this. http://www.woodpeck.com/sawgauge.html#1316

-- Sam Hamory - The project is never finished until its "finished"!

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4186 posts in 1075 days


#34 posted 06-24-2013 06:08 PM

Oldnovice, you’re right in that errors may be compounded but consider resolution. The resolution and potential error of your eye is between 0.004” – 0.009” whereas the resolution and potential error of the dial indicator is less than or equal to 0.001”. So even with compounded error, the DI is more accurate; plus it’s very fast.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View Knothead62's profile

Knothead62

2364 posts in 1656 days


#35 posted 06-24-2013 06:14 PM

Got a 4” precision engineer’s square at Woodcraft.

View sixstring's profile

sixstring

296 posts in 938 days


#36 posted 06-24-2013 06:14 PM

I use a 4” or 6” engineers square or my digital angle gauge (very worth picking one up… maybe $30 or so.)

I enjoy using my squares, but I rest easy using the digital gauge.

-- JC Garcia, Concord, CA : "It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission..."

View ajosephg's profile (online now)

ajosephg

1854 posts in 2256 days


#37 posted 06-24-2013 06:21 PM

If using an angle cube or DI to set a table saw blade, you should measure it at the height that you’re going to cut at. Many saws do not maintain the same angle throughout the height adjustment range. (If your saw has this affliction, that is why using a square or drafting square isn’t accurate.)

-- Joe

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3806 posts in 2063 days


#38 posted 06-24-2013 07:36 PM

Rick that only accounts for the errors introduced by an incorrect setup of the “gauge” not any inherent errors of te gauge itself which may compound any error.

Let get to my computer later (on a tablet at present) and I can prove it to you!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View john's profile

john

2305 posts in 3076 days


#39 posted 06-24-2013 07:43 PM

I do it the old fashion way by eye ! :-)

-- John in Belgrave (Website) http://www.extremebirdhouse.com , http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=112698715866

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4186 posts in 1075 days


#40 posted 06-24-2013 09:13 PM

I can prove it to you!

I look forward to it because I’m not entirely following your statement. Ultimately the goal for me is not entirely accuracy. My vision is not what it once was and the DI jig is much quicker and easier to see. I understand skepticism on this point, I didn’t believe myself until I tried it.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View Kirk Hutcherson's profile

Kirk Hutcherson

38 posts in 648 days


#41 posted 06-25-2013 03:40 AM

Speed square between teeth. I check it on both sides. Then the “cut and flip” method on the saw’s surface (because it is flat) to check the joint.

-- Kirk

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3806 posts in 2063 days


#42 posted 06-25-2013 04:39 AM

Rick, it comes down to a single point of contact on one side of the blade versus full blade contact on either/both sides of the blade (haven’t gotten back to my PC yet)!

The way my TS is set up I get a lot of back light that I can use for setting he blade, without that I would probably have to resort other means; but with my setup it takes me about 10 seconds to adjust the blade to table top normal.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4186 posts in 1075 days


#43 posted 06-25-2013 05:47 AM

My lighting is directly over and also in front of the saw with none behind so I need a whiteboard behind the blade plus my reading glasses or I can’t see squat. The way I made my jig it works on the blade, the miter gauge, and checks the fence for parallelism. It doesn’t check if the fence is square to the table but since that’s something I only do once in a blue moon, I just use a square.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3806 posts in 2063 days


#44 posted 06-26-2013 06:06 AM

The image below is an updated design of my very first attempt to set up my new Craftsman TS over 45 years ago. At that time LEDs were not readily available and they were very also costly. My original design used one “C” and a flashlight bulb. In the updated version, the “C” cell has been replaced with two “AA” batteries, a dropping resistor (in the base of the unit), and an LED protruding from the base. The two brass screw (with the tips cut to a very fine point) are placed as close to the bottom of the gauge and near full blade exposure respectively. These screws should be at least 32TPI and should be threaded into the blade so that they do not move easily.

The assembly look like a square but it does not have to be square at all as calibration makes it square. All that is required is a stable, non-rocking base, and a rigid connection between the base and the blade. Actually it doesn’t have to look like a square at all as it could just be two sides of a box!

Calibration requires a flat surface (top of TS or similar) and a metal square. The metal square is placed in contact with the lower brass screw tip and the other screw tip is adjusted (in/out) until the LED just turns on. The unit is now ready for adjusting 90° on the TS by setting the unit next to the blade and adjusting the tilt until the LED lights up. There is very little room for error as the two screw tips define a single line of continuity.

The theory is that the two screw tip , along with the base, define a plane of which one edge is 90° with respect to the top of the TS. The Two screw tips are merely a switch with the blade providing the switch closure.

The LED can also be replaced with a Mallory Sonalert to have audible instead of visual indication.

This WILL NOT WORK on coated blades which just happened to be the second blade I bought so I stopped using it. Now I use Forrest blades and I could rebuild this design but I would add a magnet into the base to grab the TS top.

If anyone more detail on this please let me know with a PM and I can supply schematic and more detailed drawings.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

335 posts in 559 days


#45 posted 06-26-2013 06:30 AM

I turn on the Talking Heads, dance around in a circle for a few minutes, snap my fingers and give the blade a long, non sexual stare and throw a rusty square on it for about half a second.

-- http://www.etsy.com/shop/UncannyValleyWoods

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4186 posts in 1075 days


#46 posted 06-26-2013 06:36 AM

Oldnovice, that is clever. You could be youtube famous if you made a nice how-to and posted a vid.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

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oldnovice

3806 posts in 2063 days


#47 posted 06-26-2013 06:38 AM

UncannyValleyWoods, that’s what I do but I don’t turn on the talking heads or do anything sexual to the blade but I do use my trusty square.

I just wanted to show there are many ways to set 90° on the TS!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4186 posts in 1075 days


#48 posted 06-26-2013 07:27 PM

Oldnovice, still looking forward to your proof that a square is more accurate than a DI.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View mummykicks's profile

mummykicks

57 posts in 497 days


#49 posted 06-26-2013 08:10 PM

If you’re square is square, you can get the blade square to better than .001” just by eliminating light. People see light and think the gap is huge and it isn’t. Light starts to come through at about .0005”. This is VERY easy to check to convince yourself with a feeler gage or shim stock.
My $8 empire 6” combo square from HD is sqaure to .002” over 6” (verified against a machinists square), which way better than it needs to be for woodworking. The wixey digital is about .002”/in. and is probably the easiest to read and quickest without having to squint. Your table on your table saw is lucky to be flat to better than .01”, not to mention the wood…
It doesn’t matter if a dial indicator or a square is more accurate, either is more than accurate enough.
You guys are trying too hard.

View madts's profile

madts

1282 posts in 1035 days


#50 posted 06-26-2013 08:31 PM

To me this discussion is about what is easiest. I hate to get down on my knees and squint through a blade and a square. With the DI you can do it all from above in a dignified manner. I like dignified.

-- Thor and Odin are still the greatest of Gods.

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