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WoodRiver V3 #5 Hand Plane Help

by Peteyb
posted 472 days ago


40 replies so far

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Mainiac Matt

3878 posts in 955 days


#1 posted 472 days ago

I am far from the worlds leading expert on hand plane use…. but reading the wood grain and planning in the “uphill” direction may help you.

The tricky part comes when the grain changes in the middle of the board.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

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Don W

14842 posts in 1194 days


#2 posted 472 days ago

read this and see if it helps

it sounds like your mouth opening may be set to wide, or your iron is cutting to deep, or you’re not really sharp, or some combination of the 3.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

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JayT

2179 posts in 838 days


#3 posted 472 days ago

Wood River planes tend to have a good reputation, but it will still need fettled before becoming a good user. How much will depend on the individual plane, even ones that come off the line back to back will be slightly different and need different adjustments.

  • Flatten the back of the iron.
  • Make sure the blade is sharp.
  • Double check the fit of the frog to the sole and iron to the frog. Everything tight & square with absolutely no wobble or play.
  • Make sure the blade is really sharp, like able to shave the hair off your arm sharp.
  • Set the chipbreaker about 1/16 back from the cutting edge of the iron.
  • Take thinner passes
  • Is the blade sharp?
  • As ssnvet mentions, are you planing with the grain or against it? Try going the other way, the sound and feel will be totally different.
  • Practice, practice, practice—technique is important. It is just like any other skill, practicing the right technique will get you far. You shouldn’t expect to pick up your first plane and get professional results immediately.
  • Did I mention make sure the iron is sharp? Sharp solves a lot of issues and no matter how sharp you think it is, it can be better.

Edit: Don’s article is good and he definitely knows a lot more than me. +1 on checking the mouth opening.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

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Don W

14842 posts in 1194 days


#4 posted 472 days ago

I've got a tuning blog as well and JayT is right, most planes (except for mine of course) will need some tuning to get them just right. I do think you should be able to get some reasonable results first.

A few pictures of what the shaving looks like may give some clues as well.

And as to JayT point, sharp fixes everything. (getting the back of the iron flat and polished is part of “sharp”)

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

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Peteyb

106 posts in 1182 days


#5 posted 472 days ago

Looks like I need to go home and make sure to take it apart again and work on the blade some more to make sure it is sharp. I am working with the grain on the wood. I think that I also have to look at the frog and make sure that it is adjust right.

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JayT

2179 posts in 838 days


#6 posted 472 days ago

I am working with the grain on the wood

To be clear, when we are talking about going with the grain, it is not a matter of along the grain or across, it is which direction along the grain. Most people who have not worked with hand planes or scrapers before do not realize that this will make a difference. I sure didn’t before learning to use them.

Once you have it resharpened, tuned and ready to go, try this. Plane two or three strokes down the long grain side of a board one direction, then switch and plane the same surface in the opposite direction (180 degrees). You will hear and feel a difference and know immediately which is with the grain or “uphill” as ssnvet termed it.

If you already knew this, sorry for the redundancy, but maybe someone else reading the thread did not. Good luck with your tune-up and let us know how it goes.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

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rljatl

1 post in 512 days


#7 posted 472 days ago

Try putting a slight camber on the blade to prevent the corners from digging in.

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Straightbowed

717 posts in 924 days


#8 posted 472 days ago

you can feel the grain sometimes take your hand and stroke the wood in opposite directions smoothest stroke is uphill but not always its takes alot of R & D to use a handplane, don’t give up just keep on planing they make quick work of small jobs, you will enjoy the results of handplaning how quick and simple it is to make a pc of wood glass smooth with a couple strokes, and they are great for the final fit of a project I love to use them along with my powertools

-- Stevo, work in tha city woodshop in the country

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Tugboater78

940 posts in 818 days


#9 posted 472 days ago

Ive been debating on getting their #7 sometime decent reviews, though i dont like supporting china. Would love a LN but ill have to pay off the house or car so i can throw a payment at it.

-- Justin - the tugboat woodworker - " nothing changed me like the first shnick from a well sharpened, decent hand plane"

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Peteyb

106 posts in 1182 days


#10 posted 472 days ago

One other quick question? When I bought it I also had asked what I should get for stones. They said right now I could use a 1000/4000 stone to sharpen the blade. My question is should I be using even a finer grit to finish the blade off with?

View Don W's profile

Don W

14842 posts in 1194 days


#11 posted 472 days ago

I’d say yes. 4000 grit is not fine enough. You should be something in the range of 8000 grit or 2-3 micron sand paper.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View crank49's profile

crank49

3370 posts in 1597 days


#12 posted 472 days ago

If you have no experience sharpening, a guide would be most helpful.
I never got a trully sharp plane iron until I got a guide.

Your work piece must be completely stationary. If the support, table bench or whatever, is racking or moving at all you will not get good results.

Google “scary sharp” and read some of the resulting documentation.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

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JayT

2179 posts in 838 days


#13 posted 472 days ago

Yep, 4000 grit might be enough for a jack or scrub, but something finer is needed for a really good finish. I finish with a 6000 waterstone, then a strop. IIRC, a 6000 stone and 1500 wet/dry sandpaper are generally both about 2 microns and an 8000 stone and 2000 wet/dry are about 1.5.

Take that with a grain of salt, as the numbering is not necessarily consistent among manufacturers or rating scales, but it should get you close.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

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Peteyb

106 posts in 1182 days


#14 posted 471 days ago

Ok so I went and bought Veritas MK II Honing Guide and a 8000 water stone. So know I have a 1000, 4000, and 8,000 grit stones and the honing guide. So I went back to sharpening the blade last night and got it all back together. This time I really think that I did get the blade sharp.

Straightbowed: I tried what you were talking about with the grain and I did see a difference with the wood.

But it is still being a little difficult and and do still get some snip in the board. Here are pictures for the shavings and the throat of the plane.

So what am I doing wrong?

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Mark

393 posts in 601 days


#15 posted 471 days ago

I’m no planning guru, but I’m thinkin’ your blade is set just a bit to deep. Your shavings should be quite a bit thinner. Am I right gents?

-- Mark

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chrisstef

10653 posts in 1633 days


#16 posted 471 days ago

Yea id say back the iron off a little bit and move the frog forward a hair or 2. Also try and skew your plane a little when you work it forward, it will help reduce any drag on the iron with a bit of a slicing action. You’re getting there for sure, don’t give up, these hand tools have a learning curve for sure.

After you sharpen the bevel side of the iron make sure to give it a swipe or 2 on the back side to make sure you haven’t formed a burr.

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

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waho6o9

4825 posts in 1203 days


#17 posted 471 days ago

I might suggest you get a Nagura stone for your 8000 grit water stone.

The Nagura creates a slurry and polishes up the blade nicely. It’s the rectangular cube
stone in the top left of the picture.

You’re getting there Pete, good job and keep at it.

View JayT's profile (online now)

JayT

2179 posts in 838 days


#18 posted 471 days ago

+1 to each of the previous three comments. Maple being fairly hard, using more very thin passes will work better than trying to hog off a lot at once.

Also, did you wax the sole of the plane after cleaning off the shipping oil? It will help quite a bit. I prefer wax, while others use oil of some kind, but a lube of some kind is beneficial.

The time and effort will totally be worth it the first time that plane just glides across the wood and leaves a beautiful surface behind.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

View Don W's profile

Don W

14842 posts in 1194 days


#19 posted 471 days ago

How close to the edge is your chip breaker? You could also close the mouth a little bit more.

Everything else has been said, back off the iron, and if you have something softer than maple to practice on, it would help you get the hang of it.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

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doorslammer

104 posts in 2196 days


#20 posted 471 days ago

If I’m trying to set up a new plane. I take my test cuts with something easy to plane like poplar. If your using hard maple, it’s well, hard and tough to plane even with the best plane and setup. I would eliminate the material as a variable.

-- Aaron in TN -http://www.amwellsfurniture.com

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bandit571

6821 posts in 1310 days


#21 posted 471 days ago

A #5 is a jack plane. It CAN be used as a large smoother

by merely retracting the iron until it longer cuts, then advance it until it just starts to cut, taking a few passes to check the setting as you go. Some “dub” just the corners ( I don’t) to get rid of track marks. Some will add a bit of a curve to the edge

Like a Chris Schwarz does. This one is mine, and is used to “scrub” off rough stock down to almost smooth

Where the intent is to take shaving the thickness of a dime, or bigger, and quickly smooth out rough lumber.

Currently, I have three #5 planes in house. The cambered Jack for scrub work, a Dunlap #5 for difficult grain ( has a higher angle to the frog) and a Franken Bailey #5 that can take very fine, see-through shavings, or joint most of the boards I work on.

So, look down along the sole of your plane, make sure the iron is square to the opening, advance the iron until just a thin black line shows up at the opening. Try a pass. Does it make a cut? No? advance the iron a bit and try again. You can feel the iron if it contacts the wood before the cut.

Hard to push the plane? While a candle rubbed over the sole will help, maybe back off the iron a bit?

Can’t get a full length shaving? Might be the wood’s fault, as there might be a few dips along the way that the plane will just skip over. A #4 will follow the dips, a #5 will not. Shavings coming out of just one side of the iron? Tilt the iron away from that side. Iron may have been a little bit leaning to one side. Either from a bad edge (sometimes) OR while planning, a hand makes the “not tightened enough” iron shift a bit to a side.

Hope some of all of this helps out…

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

9765 posts in 1245 days


#22 posted 471 days ago

I’ve read the replies, and know that Don has a very complete entry on tuning, but I’ll (redundantly) add this:

Back off the iron (depth of cut) until the plane doesn’t cut anymore. Then give the depth adjuster quarter turns until just the slightest hint of a shaving comes through the mouth of the plane. Use the lateral adjuster to center that piece. Then, because you’re wanting a smoother, go to eighth turns until the shaving is near-full-width but still very thin. Now you can try it on your project piece.

Again, sorry if this has been stated already. Good luck!

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive

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bandit571

6821 posts in 1310 days


#23 posted 471 days ago

Since there is a WR #4 on the way to my shop, maybe I’ll let everyone know how it works? Brand new, in the box. Will have to clean it up a bit, due to the grease they apply. Oily rag is ready to wipe it back down, to prevent any rustiness. Will try it out on a few boards, from that plank of Pine, through some Cherry, and even some maple. Let you know how it turns out.

Now, it will soon be that SOMEONE will chime in about an “upgrade” to maybe a Hock blade as being the answer. Ah, no, not needed. The wood river iron is almost as thick as Hock’s. One does NOT need to replace a very good iron with a more expensive one, just to get an “upgrade” that won’t even show up on the wood. All the irons I have in my planes, came with the plane. Seem to work just fine. Oh, take that back, the Franken Bailey has a Buck Brothers iron in it, about $3 for it…

YMMV

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View Peteyb's profile

Peteyb

106 posts in 1182 days


#24 posted 471 days ago

Wow guys thanks for all the advice so far this has helped out a lot. So tonight I need to back it off the iron for sure. Do you think that I should have to take the blade back out and resharpen it again?. If I do need to resharpen do you think I should get the Nagura Stone? When I asked about putting wax on the bottom of the planer the guy said not to do that as it would get on the wood. I also need to go out and get better screw driver as the screws to the frog are super tight and I don’t want to strip the screw heads. Once I have that done hopefully I will be able to move it forward a little.

View Don W's profile

Don W

14842 posts in 1194 days


#25 posted 471 days ago

If the guy said not to wax the sole of a hand plane, don’t listen to anything he says again….ever.

The frog screws need to be tight, but not that tight. When you set the frog on the base, make sure it sits firm, with no rocking. None at all. If there is you’ll need to fix that.

If you’ve got an 8000 grit stone, that’s the finest you need. If this is the 3rd time you’ve sharpened a plane, then “yes” sharpen it again.

The chip breaker should be about 1/6” from the edge and the mouth should be about 1/6” wide when the iron is lowered.

To be honest, I believe you have only 2 issues at this point. First and foremost Your iron is set to deep. Start there. Second, you may not be sharp enough.

So first thing I would do, is back the iron off so you get nothing when you plane. The follow Smitty’s instructions about. If you’re reasonably sharp you’ll get so decent shavings. If the plane starts to drag, or the shaving tend to be lumpy or sawdusty, resharpen.

Once you get to that point, then you can work on narrowing the mouth and chip breaker to get even finer shavings.

There will be a point, when that first shaving come out like silk, and you’ll remember your first kiss, when your first child was born, and you will feel the sun shine on your back. You’ll see what I mean when it happens.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View JayT's profile (online now)

JayT

2179 posts in 838 days


#26 posted 471 days ago

If the guy said not to wax the sole of a hand plane, don’t listen to anything he says again….ever.

+1. Anyone who says that has no clue how to use a hand plane and shouldn’t be giving out advice.

There will be a point, when that first shaving come out like silk, and you’ll remember your first kiss, when your first child was born, and you will feel the sun shine on your back. You’ll see what I mean when it happens.

And that is part of why we love ‘em.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

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Peteyb

106 posts in 1182 days


#27 posted 470 days ago

Ok sorry for the late response but I have been busy today this morning. Here is what it looked like last night.

I was getting light shavings but was only getting them in both corners and not the full blade. Did I do something wrong during the sharpening process?

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JayT

2179 posts in 838 days


#28 posted 470 days ago

The plane iron can flex just a little as you sharpen. If you are getting shavings on both corners at the same time, my guess is that you are putting too much pressure on the center of the iron as you are sharpening and creating a very slight hollow in that spot. I haven’t used the Veritas honing guide so don’t know if it is possible that tightening too much can cause some flex.

First, make sure your waterstones are flat. If you don’t have a flattening stone, and many of us don’t, just put a piece of medium grit sandpaper on a flat reference surface (table saw or jointer table will work) and rub a couple times. Then make sure the back of the plane iron is completely flat. After that sharpen the bevel again. Use a straight edge to check that you are sharpening straight across and make sure to put even pressure across the whole edge. Once the is bevel straight and even, I do the last 5-10 strokes on each stone just putting pressure on the corners of the iron to ease them a bit and prevent them from digging in. Keep in mind that we are talking about thousanths of an inch here, so it doesn’t take a lot to ease the corners.

You are definitely getting closer, keep at it.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

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bandit571

6821 posts in 1310 days


#29 posted 470 days ago

Just got a WR #4 V3 today. Mine likes to cut in the middle, right out of the box

Will be heading for the stones later.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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Peteyb

106 posts in 1182 days


#30 posted 470 days ago

Ok. I found a video that shows pretty good on how to use the Veritas Jig and looks like I might have been doing it wrong. I put a 10 degree bevel on the back of the blade. So know it looks like I should go and buy a replacement blade and Diamond stone to make sure all my stones are flat and start with the new blade. Or do you think I just need the Diamond stone and can still use the blade?

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

9765 posts in 1245 days


#31 posted 470 days ago

Don’t need a to replace your iron, just make sure it’s sharpened straight across, or even cambered, vs. the way it is. It can be done with the stone you have, just check the edge by laying a small square across the iron and taking a look. Run it on your stone while applying pressure to one corner of the iron (say, 20 to 25 strokes), then the other corner (20 to 25 again). Check for square / straight, repeat as necessary.

You’re close…

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

9765 posts in 1245 days


#32 posted 470 days ago

If the guy said not to wax the sole of a hand plane, don’t listen to anything he says again….ever.

^ I love that…

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive

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Peteyb

106 posts in 1182 days


#33 posted 470 days ago

He told me to not put wax on the sole because it could mark the wood.

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Tugboater78

940 posts in 818 days


#34 posted 470 days ago

since he uses the same jig i think you have maybe this video will help you, if you havent already seen it.

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/my-sharpening-system/

I’m still learning how to sharpen myself, there is a learning curve but it isn’t very steep. I can’t believe the guy told you not to use wax, but not real surprised since i talked to employees at the Lexington, KY Woodcraft that knew jack$*!t about handplanes and just told me to come to one of the classes they always seem to schedule when i am stuck at work.

the Shwartz uses it..as does many other “celebrities”

-- Justin - the tugboat woodworker - " nothing changed me like the first shnick from a well sharpened, decent hand plane"

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

9765 posts in 1245 days


#35 posted 470 days ago

Pete, the plane then shaves the wood it marks.

That he thinks it is reasonable. That it has been written about and blogged about and been proven to not impact finishing in any way, but he continues to say it does, is uneducated. Hence the ‘don’t listen to him’ advice from Don.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive

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crank49

3370 posts in 1597 days


#36 posted 470 days ago

One addendum:
Do not use any wax with silicone in it. Like car wax.
Otherwise, something like Johnson’s Paste wax is what I use.

You put a bevel on the back side of your blade? A full bevel?
You might need to use a grinder or sander with 60 grit paper to re shape the end back to a front bevel only.
PLEASE do this slowly and keep a bowl of water near by to dip the blade in frequently to keep it cool. If it gets too hot to touch you have it too hot.

I am going to recommend you purchase and read “Hand Tool Essentials” before you sharpen any more. This is a wonderful book and well worth its cost. IMHO

I am also going to RE-recommend you search “scary sharp” and read some of those articles and watch the videos. It is essentially using silicon carbide sanding paper on a flat glass or granite surface to shape and sharpen plane irons and chisels. Until you get the process down pat it will save you a lot of time and money on stones. It eliminates the maintenance and flattening of stones from the formula. Then once you know what you want the iron or chisel to look and feel like you can go back to the stones if you want. For me, anything that removes variables is good.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

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mandatory66

95 posts in 757 days


#37 posted 470 days ago

Sharpen the iron until you can shave hair with it. Use the 8000 stone to create a micro bevel ( changing the 25 deg. bevel to 30 Deg. on the 8000 stone) The micro bevel should be about 1/32 thick and shine like a mirror. You should be able to take a shaving between 1 and 2 thousands thick. Insure that the iron is square with the mouth of the plane. Take a thin shaving with a 1/8 thick piece of scrap from each side of the iron, they should be about the same thickness.(turn the plane upside down and run the 1/8×4 inch scrap down the side of the plane into the iron) I have a Wood River#3 and the plane is a good value for the money. Your shavings in the photo appear to be heavy.
PS Insure that the back of the iron is perfectly flat and honed on the 8000 stone to a mirror like finish at least 1/4 inch up the iron.

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Peteyb

106 posts in 1182 days


#38 posted 469 days ago

Ok didn’t get anything done last night as the stone the sold me wasn’t what I really wanted. I walked out of the store with this Norton Flattening stone http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2005775/17629/norton-flattening-stone-with-case.aspx. I think that I would like something more like this Trend Double sided Diamond Workshop Stone http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2084158/37271/trend-classic-professional-8-doublesided-diamond-workshop-stone.aspx. I think that I will like this better as it should stay flatter and I can also use the stone for sharpening anything that has bad pits. I will keep you posted on my progress.

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blackcherry

3156 posts in 2450 days


#39 posted 469 days ago

It take practice to learn how to set up the tool before you take on a finish piece, trust me. How to flatten the sole, how to a just the frog and seat the frog, how to set the blade to the chip breaker, planning technique, reading the grain oh it a journey my friend but well worth the effort as so many have found out…good luck.

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bandit571

6821 posts in 1310 days


#40 posted 468 days ago

This is about all I use on irons

The sandpaper is 220 I think, or else worn down 150 grit. A two grit oil stone that I’ve have for a LONG time. Under the green stuff on a piece of lether belt is a ceramic back slpash tile. I just use 3in1 oil. Paper towels to wipe things down as I go.

The guide I have is a Mk I by veritas

seems to work.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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