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Delta Unisaw Operating Noise

by mc79
posted 439 days ago


24 replies so far

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3632 posts in 2249 days


#1 posted 439 days ago

The elevator wheel was turning counter-clockwise … doesn’t appear to be locked down. Not sure if that is related to other issues, but …

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View mc79's profile

mc79

23 posts in 659 days


#2 posted 439 days ago

Yeah I noticed that when watching the video. I tightened it after the fact but it is still making the same noises.

View Loren's profile

Loren

7165 posts in 2234 days


#3 posted 439 days ago

Take the belts off the arbor and start the motor with no
load. Does the noise persist when the arbor is not
turning?

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Mark Davisson's profile

Mark Davisson

475 posts in 1903 days


#4 posted 439 days ago

When fiddling with my link belt the other day, I mistakenly mounted it next to the trunnion pulley (around the outer flange of the pulley) rather than on the trunnion pulley. It made that kind of sound when I fired it up.

-- I'm selfless because it feels so good!

View toolie's profile

toolie

1714 posts in 1214 days


#5 posted 439 days ago

the clunk sounds louder than what i experienced in a 70s unisaw i refurbished. make sure the locking bolt that secures the motor to the motor mounting bracket is tightened down, after the motor’s weight stresses the 3 belts.

the other operating noise sure doesn’t sound pleasant. as suggested above, start taking operating parts out ofd the power train to isolate the causal factor.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View mc79's profile

mc79

23 posts in 659 days


#6 posted 400 days ago

Update…

Thanks for the replies..I’m just now getting back around to trying to fix this noise vibration issue and the loud bang at startup if possible (more concerned about the vibration). Just for background – this saw was just purchased as New Old Stock from a old dealer that purchased it new from Delta back in 2006 or whenever these were built (36-L51X-BC50). It has been sitting in its original crate unopened since they received it and I bought it as is. Don’t know if any warranties would apply in my situation but hopefully its an easy fix. I am still a noob on these types of adjustments. I had a Ridgid TS that I didn’t really have to make any adjustments to so this is a little new to me.

When I shot the 1st video the saw was up on a sturdy funiture dolly. I was hoping getting it settled into its permanent home (on a Delta Mobile Base) would solve the vibration issue but it hasn’t changed at all. I have just opened up the cover and removed the guard/splitter to take a look. I haven’t really dug in too far yet. I’ve posted some pictures below of what the motor and belts look like. Hopefully someone can spot if its something extremely obvious in the photos below. (the belts are all on the pulleys – I don’t know what the tension should feel like on them.). The motor does seem to be over towards front quite a bit almost to where it is touching the outer gray cabinet wall. This makes the belts angle towards the front as they go down to the bottom motor pulley. I’m not sure if this is how it is supposed to be. The picture in the manual is a little hard to make out but the motor looks a little more centered in the space than what mine is. Can you guys take a look and let me know if anything jumps out at you? I’ve taken quite a few pics of everything I had easy access to.

Top Arbor Pulley Nut on outside facing me

Notice Belts going Diagonal

Botom of belts on Motor Pulley

Motor up very close to the Front Base of Cabinet

Arbor Pulley/Belts (top view)

View NormG's profile

NormG

3942 posts in 1590 days


#7 posted 400 days ago

Does sound like the motor maybe hitting something at startup

-- Norman

View patron's profile

patron

12947 posts in 1927 days


#8 posted 400 days ago

were the belts on when you opened the crate
you mentioned that it sat for years un-used

could it be the belts have some ‘hot spots’ on them
(they could be stiff and settled into a permanent figure
that is not round at rest
but more oval in shape by now)
where they were curved around the pulleys
those spots would thump as they hit the pulleys

maybe they need replacing
with some more flexible ones

as suggested above
try the motor without the belts on
at least you will know how the motor is on it’s own
and can work from that

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View toolie's profile

toolie

1714 posts in 1214 days


#9 posted 400 days ago

as good as unisaws are, getting to the belts and motor can be challenging. isolate the cause as motor or arbor generated. i’d remove the top, which will greatly simplify diagnosing what’s going on. remove the wings and note the location of any spacers between the table (two man job to execute carefully and safely) and the cabinet. it’s IMPERATIVE that any spacers be replaced exactly as initially installed otherwise future alignment operations may be compromised. if there aren’t any shims, then just proceed cautiously. the ‘70s vintage unisaw i refurbished didn’t have any shims, and it presented a bit of a challenge getting things realigned when reinstalling the top. then remove the belts. this video covers how to put them on sequentially. just reverse the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVDihfPsuaI&feature=relmfu

the intermittent rattling noise sounds a bit like the noise made by the defective arbor bearings in my 70s unisaw. replacement of the bearings is the only remedy. if the noise is coming from the motor, it’s usually the bearings.

one of the (what appears to be) capacitors seems to be a bit close to the opening in the cabinet for the motor. those motors have quite a bit of torque, so it may be moving at start up. start the saw and see if the motor is jumping, causing that capacitor housing to hit the cabinet.

the link above is part of a series of videos dealing with older uisaws, but a lot of the techniques may be helpful to you. some things changed slightly over the years , so proceed cautiously. you may want to contact these guys, who seemed to know unisaws quite thoroughly:

http://www.sawcenter.com/

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View TorxNut's profile

TorxNut

58 posts in 483 days


#10 posted 399 days ago

as good as unisaws are, getting to the belts and motor can be challenging.

I have one and sure can’t agree with that. Unless you’re referring to the newer X series, which I know little about, the earlier Uni’s have easy motor and belt access. I’d try a lot of other things before I pulled the top that would require lots of realignment.

Bill

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

876 posts in 696 days


#11 posted 399 days ago

The General 650 I had for 11 or 12 years always had a BANG on the first few starts of the day if I hadn’t used it for a week or two. It would eventually go away, after use, but it would return if it sat for a while.

It was the belts taking a set. Until the belts flexed a bit, the mechanism would coast to a stop in the set, allowing the bang to happen more than once.

If I used the saw a lot, there was no bang, until it sat for a while again.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View mc79's profile

mc79

23 posts in 659 days


#12 posted 399 days ago

”could it be the belts have some ‘hot spots’ on them
(they could be stiff and settled into a permanent figure
that is not round at rest
but more oval in shape by now)”

UPDATE:

I did remove the belts and they do seem stiff and have settled into oval shapes (picture below)...I started the motor by itself with no belts on (video) below and did not hear the noise. So does that isolate to either arbor or belts? The belts were on the pulleys when I received it so it has been sitting like that for 6-7 years unused. Does it sound like this is the problem and should I replace those before examining the arbor (i did check the set screws on the arbor pulley and they both seemed to be tight)? Anyone have any recommendations on types of belts that are good quality and reasonably priced? Thanks!

Oval Belts:

Running Noise with No Belts on:

View CudaDude's profile

CudaDude

104 posts in 894 days


#13 posted 399 days ago

I wouldn’t lose much sleep over the “bang” at startup. When I got my well used Unisaw it had the same noise. Like Barry suggested, once I started using it regularly the noise went away, and when I haven’t used it for a while it comes back on the first couple startups.

-- Gary

View bbc557ci's profile

bbc557ci

541 posts in 660 days


#14 posted 399 days ago

I bought a used Uni last Saturday from a guy who said the saw had not been used in about 4 years. like yours, weight of the motor had been on the belts. Mine would rumble for a few seconds after start up, and I was concerned about that. Rumble got much milder after running for a while. I took the blade off and started the saw while observing the belts, and they do not appear to be running/turning smoothly at all….they’re “jumpy”. As mentioned above, I’m pretty sure they’ve taken a set from sitting so long with the motor weight on them, and bet you’re in the same boat. I let mine run for a few minutes a couple of different times. Now the “rumble” is way less so I think the belts have re-shaped some. Regardless I plan to replace the belts with a matched set from Delta.

I get a minor noise/low boom sound on start up, and attribute that to the INSTANT power/rpm’s on start up. Hit the go button and it just lights up immediately. Would be nice if it had a “soft start” feature.

-- Bill, central NY...no where near the "big apple"

View patron's profile

patron

12947 posts in 1927 days


#15 posted 399 days ago

here is a set o 3 belts
for your model saw
$44.83

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/3vblts-26116-p-89186.html

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View toolie's profile

toolie

1714 posts in 1214 days


#16 posted 399 days ago

I have one and sure can’t agree with that.

check the linked video above at the 3:25 mark. steve shanesy also makes the difficulty observation about belt restoration on older unisaws. maybe this editor of popular woodworking magazine could use a few tips from you, since it sounds like you’ve found it easier than he did.

mc79….that motor sounds real nice. i’d change out the belts first. it’s one of the things i addressed during my unisaw refurb. i used these belts:

got them at grainger for $15. here’s how the saw ran with those belts the day i sold it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0CGeTLNrCo

there’s no harm using the matched belts, but IMHO, it’s a small waste of money.

if the saw makes that intermitent noise with new belts and no blade, with the elevation wheel locking bolt snugged up and the belts tensioned properly (see the video linked above for how to use the weight of the motor to tension the belts and secure them with the motor locking bolt), then it may be the arbor bearings.

before reinstalling the belts, grasp the arbor pulley and check it for play. spin the arbor and listen. if it spins too freely and the bearings go a few revolutions before stopping, the bearings are suspect. this video addresses the arbor and it’s bearings, both inspecting and replacing (at about the 3:00 minute mark) them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM6CWHc9-kU&feature=relmfu

that looks to be a nice saw. a little more detective work should provide an answer to that unsettling noise.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View reedwood's profile

reedwood

858 posts in 1262 days


#17 posted 398 days ago

Dang…that sounds scary horrible.
I have the X5 and it definitely doesn’t sound like that, except the bang at start up.

But, I learned a few things about it reading this thread. I hope you figure out what that screeching sound is.

Great presentation and comments. You guys are awesome.

-- mark

View mc79's profile

mc79

23 posts in 659 days


#18 posted 386 days ago

Ok, sorry for the long delay, my belts took a very long time to arrive. I put on the belts which were generic 4L260 Belts that were not matched. The belts were not what I ordered so I am returning them but not before I threw them on the saw for a test (since they were not packaged anyway). The majority of the vibration was gone and the belts themselves looked much smoother while running (no jumping on the pulleys). The saw still banged at startup but it did pass the nickel test which it couldn’t before. So I think the new belts, even though the were poor quality, did improve it drastically. So I’m really hopeful that the correct matched set will make it even better.

However, there was still an underlying slight vibration that was much less than what it was doing previously in the original video. So I decided to take a closer look at the arbor. After watching the youtube video linked above about testing the arbor, I took the belts off again and tested the pulley checking for “play”. I wasn’t really sure what kind of play I was looking for, but I could get an extremely slight movement when putting my fingers underneath and pulling up and towards me (standing at the back of the saw reaching down through the top). It would move extremely slightly and I do mean extremely (you can hear it the most towards the end of the video). If I push down or in another direction, there was no movement. Also when spinning it with no belt it would rotate 1-2 times before stopping on its own. I’ve posted a video below. Can you guys let me know if this is normal or if something in there might need to be replaced? Remember this was a “New” saw that had been sitting in its original box and crate for about 6 years.

Thanks!

View toolie's profile

toolie

1714 posts in 1214 days


#19 posted 386 days ago

sounds like a defective bearing. i don’t believe that little knocking sound shouldn’t be there as you handle the arbor. at least it wasn’t there when i had an arbor bracket rebuilt with a new arbor and new bearings by the sawcenter.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View mc79's profile

mc79

23 posts in 659 days


#20 posted 385 days ago

What is the best way to check for arbor “play” and are the belts supposed to be installed and tensioned when checking arbor runout and play?

View mc79's profile

mc79

23 posts in 659 days


#21 posted 385 days ago

Ok I think I have a good measurement on the arbor runout…With my dial indicator on the dead top center of the smooth part of the arbor. I zeroed out my indicator and than manually spun the arbor with no belts installed and got a range of -.0015 to +.001”. Is this acceptable and would this indicate my bearings are ok – variation seems very minimal..

Not sure yet on arbor “play” measurement…Do belts need to be on for this and how do I measure?

Thanks for helping me through this guys! I’m hoping to have a saw in top running condition very soon so I can focus on actually building things and not playing mechanic!

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

606 posts in 759 days


#22 posted 385 days ago

End play is the back and forth movement of the shaft with the belts off put your dial indicator against the shaft end and try to move the shaft back and forth. You need to measure and correct endplay before checking runout because excessive endplay is one of the causes of runout.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View mc79's profile

mc79

23 posts in 659 days


#23 posted 385 days ago

Ok so it doesn’t appear there is any end play – no wiggling trying to lightly pull the shaft away from the pulleys or pushing in towards it. When I was making the noise in the video I was grabbing the shaft and pulling it with a good deal of force upward.

I did some rechecking of the other measurements.

Arbor Shaft Runout (at smooth part of shaft in between threaded part and the arbor flange): .003”
Arbor Flange Runout (at very outer edge of face of flange): .0005”
Measuring toothmark on blade at 1 end and the rotating and measuring same spot on other end: .001”

Can you guys tell from these measurements if there is an issue that needs to be corrected?

View toolie's profile

toolie

1714 posts in 1214 days


#24 posted 384 days ago

i’d send that video to the sawcenter and see what they think. they are pretty good about phone assistance and isolating causes/offerring solutions. if somethings needed, they’ll sell parts or repair it themselves. if your hand can get the arbor to make a noise like that, imagine what a 3 hp motor at 3450 rpm can do.

just a thought, have you checked the set screws that affix the arbor pulley to the arbor? maybe that’s what’s making that noise. left unattended, loose set screws increasingly damage the arbor unti repair requires replacement.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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