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View Splinter12's profile

Grizzly G0661 Table saw burning while cutting

by Splinter12
posted 449 days ago


45 replies so far

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5365 posts in 1971 days


#1 posted 449 days ago

How thick is the maple?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

3829 posts in 924 days


#2 posted 449 days ago

and I have set my fence to tow out to .010” at the far end.

try parallel to the slot and see if you still have the problem.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#3 posted 449 days ago

Knotscott, the maple is 3/4” thick. The typical 1×6 S4S stuff.

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#4 posted 449 days ago

SSnvet, I though you were supposed to have the end of the fence go away from the blade slightly to prevenet binding.

View Brandon's profile

Brandon

4136 posts in 1547 days


#5 posted 449 days ago

Splinter, I’ve had similar issues with some maple boards that were just so badly tensioned. They were pinching the riving knife after the cut and you’d find rising saw marks on one side. A full kerf blade did help a bit. Also oversize your initial cuts, then make the final cut so that it only takes off a little bit and will be much cleaner.

-- "hold fast to that which is good"

View JayT's profile

JayT

2076 posts in 807 days


#6 posted 449 days ago

Fence toeing slightly out is fine, but .010” is a bit much, IMHO. See if you can get it down to .002” or so.

Another possible culprit could be that the blade needs cleaned.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#7 posted 449 days ago

+1 Brandon W...
If you hadn’t had problems before….then it’s probably the maple….Good advice for ripping the piece wider and then making a final cleanup pass

+1JayT...
Less skew on the fence and try a different combo blade or rip blade

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#8 posted 449 days ago

kdc68, how is your G0661 treating you? What do you have in terms of dust collection? My shopvac is just not cutting it.

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#9 posted 449 days ago

Splinter12...No issues with cutting like what you are experiencing…. I use thin kerf blades….The dust collection port has plugged up on me once, but that was my fault…...Other than that, so far…so good

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View verdesardog's profile

verdesardog

78 posts in 1207 days


#10 posted 449 days ago

when ripping, I always cut a bit wider then send the boards through my surface planer on edge for final clean up and dimensioning…

-- .. heyoka ..

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#11 posted 449 days ago

Splinter12...Let us know if you resolved your issue…Other new G0661 owners (like me) may want a heads up…

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#12 posted 449 days ago

Kdc68 I get a ton of dust on the floor, do you have that issue? I have a ridgid shop vac. Also with the thin kerf blades being .098 at the kerf and the riving knife been .090, have you found a quick way to get them lined up without a lot of trial and error/ losen, adjust set screw and repeat? The .004 on either side of the knife it hard to get right.

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#13 posted 449 days ago

Splinter12....Yeah I get saw dust on the floor…but most goes into the dust port. I will assume that is to be expected with the bottom of the saw open…No big deal to me though….I have the Diablo thin kerf blades and they are .098 as well. I have not had to adjust the riving knive….lucky I guess. When I first got the saw I put on the blade, I checked the gap between the blade and the riving knive by placing a straight edge along the blade (against the teeth and not the body of the blade) and was able to slip a .004 feeler gage in there. I have checked a couple times since and no change. Do you think your riving knive is out of alignment?

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1001 posts in 882 days


#14 posted 449 days ago

#1 check riving knife alignment. If it is out of alignment such that it is too far toward the left of the blade, it can tend to pull the piece toward the side of the blade (the side facing the fence). The tension in the cut off tries to close the kerf (yes I know it can go the other way too) and the cut off hits the riving knife and basically then tries to pull your GOOD piece toward the side of the blade. I say this because you mentioned it seems to be burning more on the good side of the cut and less on the cut off.

The “toe-out” on the fence is a bit much. My blade-to-miter-slot alignment is within a half a thousandth as best I can measure (I just got lucky) and my fence toe-out is about .003.

I cut a lot of hard maple for face frames last summer and the maple was definitely more finicky about getting things aligned. Cut a piece of poplar… perfect, with no burn at all. Cut a piece of maple the same thickness right afterward… hmmmmm… some burning. I was told by someone (can’t remember who) that the sugars in the maple make it more prone to burning.

Whatever…. once I tweaked the saw to get clean cuts on maple, it seemed to cut everything else better as well.

shrug

it’s wood. :)

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#15 posted 449 days ago

I’ll “play” a bit more tonight with the suggestions.

Thanks All

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#16 posted 449 days ago

Splinter12...I read Charlie’s post….He has spelled out a potential problem with your saw…IMO maybe you should check your alignment on the riving knife

+1Charlie…

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#17 posted 449 days ago

Kdc68 the thought crossed my mind, but i did not get burning with plywood. Also with fingers far away I removed all knifes and guards and gave it a go and it still burnt.

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#18 posted 449 days ago

I cut a lot of hard maple for face frames last summer and the maple was definitely more finicky about getting things aligned. Cut a piece of poplar… perfect, with no burn at all. Cut a piece of maple the same thickness right afterward… hmmmmm… some burning. I was told by someone (can’t remember who) that the sugars in the maple make it more prone to burning.
^
^
^
Charlie

Splinter12..It’s been a long while ago that I worked with hard maple (long before owning this G0661). I don’t remember burning being as issue. I may have not been to concerned if it did. My routine is I typically rip my boards wider by a 1/32 and joint the edge on the jointer…I guess try some other woods and/or another blade to see if you have burning. Process of elimination until you know its either the saw or the blade or the wood….

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#19 posted 449 days ago

Splinter12....Is this the blade you are using ??....If so, the kerf is .091….The riving knife is .090…

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU83R010-10-Inch-Combination-PermaShield/dp/B00020JOAA

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#20 posted 449 days ago

Kdc68 I am using a freud diablo d1050x.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

260 posts in 584 days


#21 posted 449 days ago

I find that maple can be one of the more difficult woods to rip and avoid any burning. You need a sharp blade and a rip blade would be better. I do not think that there is too much difference between the full kerf and think kerf blade in this case.

Good Luck

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5365 posts in 1971 days


#22 posted 449 days ago

I’m wondering how sharp and how clean the blade is. At the very least, clean it if it’s not brand new. Charlie’s suggestion to check the riving knife alignment is good. You can also try raising the blade slightly higher.

A rip blade would have an easier time, but the 50T should be fine in 3/4” maple if it’s dried. I’d lean toward TK if you opt for a 24T ripper….always a good blade to have in the arsenal for thicker stock.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#23 posted 449 days ago

Splinter12....Ok..gotcha..not that Freud 50T…I have the Freud Diablo D1024x, D1040x, and D1080x and they are all .098 kerf, so I will assume the D1050x is also .098. Sorry I can’t be of more help. I haven’t experienced issues with burning on the G0661 as you, but I am still leaning (as others) towards either a dull blade or a riving knife alignment issue. Keep us posted…..

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#24 posted 449 days ago

So here is deal with pictures, I spent a hour lining up the knife. It loos pretty good.

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#25 posted 449 days ago

Splinter12...pictures ??

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#26 posted 448 days ago

Sorry learning pictures, I spent some time aligning the riving knife. It looks pretty good,

I aligned the fence to .005 towing out at the end of the table. Then I started cutting,

Still burning, at this point I am only taken of half a kerf width. The picture below shows the jointed side it flat as referenced to the table. I then removed the knife to eliminate it from the case. Still burning. The next photo I actually on pushed through the board a bit at a time to show where it is burning. It seems to be at the far end of the blade.

Also I did note some dragging as if the fence or insert was binding, but can’t find where. Do you wax aluminum? Please help.

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#27 posted 448 days ago

Splinter12...Your picture of the burning to me looks like excessive blade runout (warped). Hard to tell, I’m not there making a cut so I am speculating.
To test this place a combo square in the miter slot with the blade of the combo square lightly against the saw blade. Hold combo square so it doesn’t move. Rotate the saw blade and watch for any deviation of the saw blade as it spins using the tip of the combo square blade as a reference. The saw blade should make full contact with the combo square in a full rotation. If it doesn’t then your saw blade is warped (excessive runout).
v

Here’s a picture of a piece of cherry I cut, which is prone to burn. I have a Diablo 40 tooth combo blade that made the cut with no burning
v

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#28 posted 448 days ago

I put a dial indicator on it and gave it a spin, I get .003 at the outer edge. Is that enough to cause issues?

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5365 posts in 1971 days


#29 posted 448 days ago

”I get .003 at the outer edge. Is that enough to cause issues?”

Shouldn’t be, but something’s causing it. It does look to be burning on the back edge. Just to cover the easy stuff, have you tried a different blade yet or cleaned it at the very least? It looks pretty gummed up. I’d also check the fence for flatness. I know that the edge of the board along the fence is straight, but how about the bottom…is it flat, bowed, twisted?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2698 posts in 1172 days


#30 posted 448 days ago

To me, that looks like burning from binding on the fence.
When you check your fence alignment, is it locked down?
Does the maple burn during cross cuts?

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#31 posted 448 days ago

Splinter12...Damn I thought your issues might have been excessive blade runout (warped blade).
Here is what we know
-Blade alignment to miter slot – .002 – good
-Blade Runout – .003 – good
-Fence skew away from blade – .005 – good
-Riving Knife – aligned perfect – non issue
What is left
-Different blade or cleaning this one
-Fence flatness
-Other wood to rip
I don’t know what else to suggest without sending you out on a goose chase. Sorry I couldn’t be more help.

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#32 posted 448 days ago

It does not burn during cross cuts. It is actual a very clean cross cut. It did find a bow of .0025 in the fence away from the blade right at the blade. Seems minor though. I’m stumped. I do feel some rubbing I think against the fence towards the operator end only as the end of the piece goes through.
After work I’ll clamp a spare piece of plywood to the fence and give it a go.

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2698 posts in 1172 days


#33 posted 448 days ago

When you make a rip cut, does the board have identical widths at each end of the board?

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#34 posted 448 days ago

Nitewalker I’ll have to check when I get home from work. I would assume so as I have build drawers out of plywood and had no issue but I’ll check anyways.

I am also going to pick up the Freud D1024x rip blade today and give it a try. If a brand new blade does not solve the problem I will be down to just the fence as the issue or pully slipage but I’ll check that too.

For those following along my arbor flange and arbor have no run out.

Thanks

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#35 posted 448 days ago

Well chaulk is it up to a beginner. The fresh rip blade produces clean cuts. It is the first I have owned. I am surprised how fast the freud combo got dirty ot dull. I only had a couple months. Did something stupid though, in desperation last night I waxed my aluminum fence face. What a mistake, the board now runs against it as it goes past. What is good for desolving paste wax?

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1938 posts in 872 days


#36 posted 448 days ago

Splinter12...A new blade is a inexpensive fix…and after all this now you have the saw tuned up!!...it’s all good…. mineral spirits or naphtha will remove that paste wax…

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View JayT's profile

JayT

2076 posts in 807 days


#37 posted 448 days ago

Splinter, glad you got it figured out. If you clean the combo blade, it will probably be fine. Plywood and softwood will both gum up a blade pretty quickly.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

View uMinded's profile

uMinded

57 posts in 448 days


#38 posted 448 days ago

Thought I would add my 2 cents:

When I cut thick/wide maple I noticed burning on the last bit of every cut and I taped, measured and tilted till the cows came home and it wouldn’t quit burning. Turns out that my blade was parallel to my left miter slot but that my right miter slot (which I was aligning my fence with) was out by 0.008” at the end. I did not notice it cutting plywood or anything but the slight increase of friction was just burning my maple.

Anyway I put a HSS end mill in my router and measured ten times before cutting my right miter slot parallel.

Also I find putting a 5” blade stiffener increased the quality of cuts on my thin kerf blades, I use to get saw marks on oak until I added one.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5365 posts in 1971 days


#39 posted 447 days ago

All’s well that ends well! Glad you got it resolved.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Straightbowed's profile

Straightbowed

717 posts in 894 days


#40 posted 447 days ago

I use to have burning until the jointer entered the shop now its all smooth sailing no more burning

-- Stevo, work in tha city woodshop in the country

View Straightbowed's profile

Straightbowed

717 posts in 894 days


#41 posted 447 days ago

in your cuts looks like your stopping every 6 in and starting again feed rate is kinda jogging

-- Stevo, work in tha city woodshop in the country

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#42 posted 447 days ago

Straightwood, part of it was intentional to demonstrate the issue but I know I must polish my method as well.

View stefang's profile

stefang

12525 posts in 1930 days


#43 posted 447 days ago

My guess is that your blade is the culprit. 50 teeth for ripping sounds excessive. I would only use such a blade for cross cuts. The same thing happens with band saws. Resawing is best done 3tpi blades with large gullets to clear the sawdust efficiently. The same applies to table saws.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View Splinter12's profile

Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#44 posted 446 days ago

Well all was going well in terms of the burning but I was still getting some scaring. I found it time to change from my riving knife to guard and noticed it was not lined up. I though “that’s odd”. I then changed back to the knife and it did not line up either. I was kind of upset as I spent a lot of time setting it up. Then I took a closer look.

The mounting bracket is cracked. I took it out and it broke in two. Is it a defect, maybe. More than likely I applied to much pressure when aligning. Still fairly impressed the heavy cast iron broken but most cast iron is malleable if not hardened. Off to Grizzly CSR to get a new one.

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Splinter12

50 posts in 711 days


#45 posted 446 days ago

Yay new part on the way.

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