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Delta 34-444 vs. Ridgid R4512

by ProfPenguin
posted 04-14-2013 07:38 PM


49 replies so far

View toolie's profile

toolie

1762 posts in 1284 days


#1 posted 04-14-2013 08:20 PM

IMHO, you are on the right track. the 4512 offers a lot of value. it aslo has a 90 day satisfaction guaranty, a 3 year new tool warranty and the LSA, with which the tool must be registered for it to be effective

http://www.ridgid.com/tools/power-tool-warranty

as far as it being a last saw, my two emerson built 10” CI contractor saws are all i’ll need for the foreseeable future. a spinning carbide tipped blade powered by a 1 1/2 hp motor should be able to handle whatever you need, just not at production shop speeds. cabinet saws are nice ( i refurbished an “old arn” unisaw and sold it), but not mandatory for fine woodworking.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#2 posted 04-14-2013 08:24 PM

What fence is on the Delta?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1311 posts in 1464 days


#3 posted 04-14-2013 08:30 PM

The fence would probably dictate the value on this one. But with the cast iron wings it sounds like a fair deal, even with the orig. jet lock. I would choose it over any comparable cont. saw out there.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1017 posts in 942 days


#4 posted 04-14-2013 08:37 PM

Before you get lured in by the lifetime service on the Ridgid, find out where the closest place is that will do the warranty work. Ridgid gave me the name of a place. I called. They told me they stopped doing Ridgid warranty work because Ridgid stiffed them for a lot of money in reimbursements. So…. next place was 350 miles away. That’s a long drive! Home Depot apparently takes in the smaller tools for warranty work, but not the larger ones. Without a service center, the warranty is garbage. They would not ship me the parts to fix the R4512 myself (former journeyman millright… I could have handled it).

There are some very happy R4512 owners out there. But for every happy one there’s probably 10 that have picked up and returned a defective one.

The 34-444 was a top-of-the-line Delta contractor saw from the 80s into the 90s. If it has the cast iron wings (not the stamped steel ones) and a decent fence (I think they came with or could be ordered with a unifence), then if it’s in mint condition and comes with extras it might be worth $400. I’d try getting him down to $350 though … but that’s just me. :)

knotscott may chime in with more info. He’s kinda like the table saw god. :)

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#5 posted 04-14-2013 09:28 PM

I hear ya about the Ridgid warranty, thankfully the service center is about 15 mi from here so it isn’t so bad. I’ve read about the defective units and I plan to do the “parking lot test” on the Ridgid if I go that route to be sure I get a good one.

The fence on the Delta is the original jet lock fence which I hear mixed things about. It could probably use an upgrade but at $400, I don’t know if it would be worth it. At $600, I might be better off with a Steel City or Grizzly hybrid saw.

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Fred Hargis

1790 posts in 1149 days


#6 posted 04-14-2013 09:36 PM

I had the 34-444 with a Unifence…and for me there would be no question between the 2 you listed, except for the fence. With the Jet lock, I would want the Delta for a little less…but I would still want it. USA made, a 2 HP motor that was derated to 1.5 for UL reasons….and that one has the cast iron extensions.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, we sent 'em to Washington.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1017 posts in 942 days


#7 posted 04-14-2013 09:39 PM

I bought an R4512 first. I tried everything I could think of, short of pulling it apart and remachining parts. I really liked the saw that much. Unfortunately, there was no getting around the alignment issue so I had to return it. They had one other in stock besides the display model and those BOTH had the alignment issue.

So I spent a little more and got the Steel City 35990G. I love it. Once I figured out the procedure for getting the split miter slots adjusted, it has been clear sailing. And I can remove and reset the wings and get the miter slots right on with no problem at all. I see Steel City has a line of saws now with both slots milled into the center section as well. So….whatever floats your boat. ALL machines have their quirks. ALL of them. Part of this is dealing with them, learning them, and working WITH them. :)

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#8 posted 04-14-2013 10:21 PM

The Delta is a nice saw (in the right hands ;-)), and the cast iron wings and link belt are nice touches that do add some value, but the jetlock fence deflates the value IMO. In today’s market I don’t think it’s worth $400 as is. I’d be more inclined to offer $300 and see what comes of it.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1288 days


#9 posted 04-14-2013 11:40 PM

The 34-444 is a very capable machine. I wouldn’t think you’d outgrow it anytime soon. Certainly not any faster than you’d outgrow a 4512. But as said before, $400 is a hefty price for a saw with a mediocre fence.
I might pay $200-250 with the intention of immediately installing a Delta T2 fence. They typically run $150-200, are of great quality, and would be a direct bolt-on to a 34-444.
You’d have $400-450 sunk into the machine at that point, but the saw would last for decades. And IMO, you’d be hard pressed to find anything better for $450.

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NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1232 days


#10 posted 04-15-2013 01:50 AM

In this instance, I’d go for the ridgid. If the delta was cheaper, I’d go that way and do as Tedstor said.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

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SamuraiSaw

455 posts in 620 days


#11 posted 04-15-2013 03:04 PM

First the good news…....

The biggest culprit for making these type of dicussions is now history (by name and hopefully in reality). Makes for a much nicer environment.

I am not a fan of Ridgid, but that delta is way over priced. IMO $300 is top dollar. If the seller won’t come down, consider ridgid.

-- Artisan Woodworks of Texas.... www.awwtx.com

View Beginningwoodworker's profile

Beginningwoodworker

13341 posts in 2328 days


#12 posted 04-15-2013 03:12 PM

I would get the Delta 34-444, its a much better saw.

-- CJIII Future cabinetmaker

View ProfPenguin's profile

ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#13 posted 04-15-2013 08:33 PM

Thanks for the input gentleman!

Just to throw more confusion into this thread… I found another guy selling a Craftsman 113.298032. He’s asking $200 which is about twice what it’s worth but if I can get it for ~$100 and replace the lame Emerson fence, it might be a nice saw and last me a while.

What do you think?

P.S. KnottScott, I think we’re in the same area and I know you have some experience with these saws. Are they decent enough for a new woodworker? Are they worth the time to restore?

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#14 posted 04-15-2013 08:53 PM

I’m in the northern part of Greece on the west side of Rochester. Those old Emerson saws are made in the USA, and have direct lineage to both the Emerson and TTI/Ryobi made Ridgid and Craftsman contractor saws like the TS2424, TS3612, TS3650, etc. The fences on the old Cman Emersons were fairly lame, but the guts underneath are nearly identical, and many parts are interchangeable. With a good fence, they’re can be a very respectable saw.

If you’re talking about the old Emerson Cman on CL in Henrietta, yeah, $200 is a little steep IMO, but it’s got wheels, metal handwheels, a DC blower built into the motor, and looks to be in good shape. If he’s got the blade guard that goes with it, I think an offer $150 would be reasonable. The DC blower is a mixed bag for me….it helps resale value if you’re peddling the parts, and it actually helps with dust collection if he’s got the blade guard attachment, but those fan blades share an already slightly underpowered motor with the saw blade. You can take the blower off, or you coul. Not much on CL here in the past week or so. Somebody had a pretty nice Ridgid 3650 a couple weeks back…it didn’t stick around long. There’s an old Emerson Cman in Greece for $350! That’s crazy, but it’s in nice shape and looks complete. There’s a project in Lyons for $150…..$75 to $100 would be reasonable on that one (needs some TLC). There’s an older Ridgid with a decent fence for $300 in Greece (looks like it might be a TS2424)...no leg stand, but doesn’t need a fence upgrade…$200 to $250 would be a good offer on that one IMO (it was posted mid March, so if it’s still around, they’re probably willing to negotiate by now….lack of blade guard is a good bartering point). There’s also an older Delta with a jetlock fence and a vacuum system thats’s overpriced at $350, but that one’s also been there a while, so they might be up for an offer.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#15 posted 04-15-2013 09:09 PM

Hey Knott,

I’m over in Penfield so, opposite side of the city. I haven’t seen much to jump at on CL yet, hence my hesitation to pull the trigger on any of these.

The Cman is indeed the one in Henrietta, good eye. Wheels and handwheels are a plus but the blower does nothing for me since I have very little in the way of a dust collection setup and like you said, why rob power from an already under-powered motor?

I already tried to talk to the guy with the saw in Greece, he wasn’t going to budge on the price much so that one’s out of the question. I didn’t see the one in lyons though so maybe that’s worth the drive. I have some old Rockwell Stamped wings that might work on there too.

Thanks for the advise!

View toolie's profile

toolie

1762 posts in 1284 days


#16 posted 04-15-2013 09:09 PM

why rob power from an already under-powered motor?

if i may jump in, i cobbled together this delta t2 equipped emerson built TS for <$200 from woodnet, CL and HD clearance items:

so good for my shop that i opted (and this may sound like heresy) to sell a unisaw i refurbished

and keep the c-man saw and a related ridgid ts2412.

IMHO, they can be great starter saws, and i believe i’ve got the last two saws i’lll ever need. purchased right (i.e., <$100), they can be good values, provided their guts are solid. they usually have 1 to 1 1/2 hp motors that are powerful enough for almost all hobbyist applications, with the right blade. be advised, though, that older 315 (ryobi built) series c-man TSs have some differences with the 113 (emerson built) series c-man saws that, IMHO, make them a little less desireable (e.g., splitter and blade guards are harder to mount and dismount). i’ve found that while 3 hp cabinet saws are nice, they aren’t necessary in order to do fine woodworking.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#17 posted 04-15-2013 09:21 PM

Those cast wings and T2 fence look great on that Emerson, nice job with the restoration. I know I don’t need a 3hp saw to do what I need, but a 1 hp kind of scares me since I’ve heard people complain about 1hp being less powerful than their universal motor benchtop models… I don’t know if there is any validity in that statement but who knows. I just don’t want to regret the purchase if I ever decide to upgrade.

I am going to have a look at the Cman tonight so I’ll let you all know how it goes.

Thanks again!

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toolie

1762 posts in 1284 days


#18 posted 04-15-2013 11:22 PM

I’ve heard people complain about 1hp being less powerful than their universal motor benchtop models

in the case of my ‘70s vintage 1 hp c-man, it’s absolutely untrue. it has a 1hp motor that handled ripping 8/4 oak, with a 24T ripping blade, for the unisaw’s mobile base , with ease. as noted previously, hardwoods can’t be pushed through a 1 or 1 1/2 hp saw as fast as they can be pushed through a 3hp saw, but most hobbyists aren’t in a production environment and speed isn’t an issue.

BTW, that saw was assembled with parts from various sources. it was not a restoration project. the unisaw was more of a restoration project.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#19 posted 04-16-2013 01:32 AM

Is the cut speed the only difference with the HP of the motor Toolie? I guess it matters a bit less than I thought then as I’m in no hurry.

So I looked at the Cman saw and decided to pass. The arbor tilt worm screw didn’t work, the insert screw was stripped (not a big deal), and the base it was on was wobbling all over the place. If he would go down on the price I would have done it anyway, but…

Off to the list!

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Rick M.

3974 posts in 1036 days


#20 posted 04-16-2013 03:04 AM

I would buy the Delta in a blink. Talk him down a bit then dumpster the Jet-lock and buy a Unifence or Bies clone. I have a Delta 36-something or other which is basically the same except for looks, bought it about 15 years ago and still going strong. Another local woodworker has a 34-444 that he’s owned for about 20 years and it runs like new. They are the best contractor saw ever built up until Sawstop.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

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cabmaker

1311 posts in 1464 days


#21 posted 04-16-2013 03:32 AM

Rick, we could debate that one. I have put two sawstop cont. style saws to gather for others, and frankly was not impressed. That delta is in my opinion a better deal at the asking price than anything in its class. JB

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Rick M.

3974 posts in 1036 days


#22 posted 04-16-2013 03:43 AM

I was basically giving Sawstop the benefit of the doubt based on seeing them in a store, haven’t actually used one. They seem well made but time always tells.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#23 posted 04-16-2013 09:41 AM

”Is the cut speed the only difference with the HP of the motor?”

There’s a bit more going on under the hood than just motor power. Cut speed is but one aspect….every task is easier for a larger motor, so it doesn’t strain as much. Then there’s the difference in the heft of the mechanisms and how well everything works, plus a huge difference in overall mass which makes bigger saws more stable. That’s not saying you need a saw like that to do good work, but there are some notable physical and mechanical differences.

Typical contractor saw:
(Emerson/TTI)

(Delta/PM/GI/Griz/Jet)

.

Typical industrial cabinet saw:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#24 posted 04-16-2013 01:45 PM

That’s very interesting. Why is it that a lot of cabinet saws use three belts? This may seem like an ignorant question but I feel like one wider belt would do the same thing, no?

How do you feel about hybrid saws? I feel like they have a lot of the benefits of a cabinet saw, cabinet mounted trunnions, and improved dust collection, at a reasonable price compared to a true cabinet saw.

I really don’t need a perfect saw, as I’m not a professional by any means, so I’m not looking to buy “the best money can buy”. I’m really just looking for my best value. Something I can use for the next two decades and enjoy using. I don’t want to buy cheap to have it now when I could wait until I can afford something nice.

View toolie's profile

toolie

1762 posts in 1284 days


#25 posted 04-16-2013 02:59 PM

a hybrid, now that they’ve almost totally supplanted contractor saws, is definitely worth considering. the grizzly 0715 and ridgid 4512, provided they don’t have the blade elevation/miter slot alignment issue some of their units have had, are two good choices in new hybrid saws. the ridgid retails for $500 and, if a HD accepting harbor freight’s “20 (now 25)% off any single item” coupon can be located, has been had for as little as $375.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-Riving-Knife-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0715P

http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/10-Cast-Iron-Table-Saw/

the griz has a 2 hp dual voltage motor, CI wings and a fence with a one piece front rail. the 4512 has a 1.5hp dual voltage motor, a fence with a two piece front rail, a 90 day satisfaction guaranty, 3 year new tool guaranty and LSA eligibility.

and steel city tool works has some well regarded cabinet and hybrid saws. here’s their 2013 spring sale flyer:

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/SteelCity_spring2013_promo_26feb2013_B.pdf

the 35950 10” CI TS for $999 looks like a lot of value with cabinet mounted trunions:

http://steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm?section=2&category=12&tool=35950

and steel city tools are available through home depot online.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/203233479?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=steel+city+tool+model+35950&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=203233479#.UW1foaJgSSo

when i called HD last fall inquiring about a cabinet saw, with a little prodding, they agreed to honor the sale prices. and if purchased with a HD CC, the purchase qualifies for whatever the current deferred billing offer is available at the time of purchase. as the above HD link indicates, the purchase through HD includes free home delivery and returns can be made to a local store. SS tools have a 5 year guaranty.

FWIW, steel city was rumored to be going out of business or having problems 1 or 2 years ago, but their tools seem to be well regarded and they are still here.

as noted earlier, cabinet saws are nice to have, but not necessary for fine woodworking. in a hobbyist shop, their notable physical and mechanical differences, which are primarily aimed at production environmets, could amount to overkill. even 40 year old contractor saws can provide the kind of performance that’s commensurate with fine woodworking, if they are set up properly. and any of the saws linked above will, IMHO, provide your requested 20 years of service.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#26 posted 04-16-2013 08:50 PM

Three belts was the old school solution to harness all that torque. The G1023RL is a more recent design, thus the single wide serpentine belt. You’ll note that the G0690 has a swing arm that’s been modified to accept a riving knife, whereas the G1023RL has a vertical lift mechanism that was originally designed with a riving knife. Both great saws with a comparable large happy following and very clean track records….no real hiccups with either.

Hybrids are an evolution of the original contractor saw….the motor moves inside (an advantage), and DC tends to be better. They essentially have the same duty rating, same power supply requirements (110v or 220v), and same motor power though (1hp to 2hp). Some with full enclosures and cabinet mounted trunnions weigh quite a bit more than a standard contractor saw, which is a plus, but none really has the heft of a true industrial cabinet saw, and very few (likely none) get close to the weight of a cabinet saw. Again, you don’t need an industrial cabinet saw to do good work, but they are the top of the heap for most of us, so I’m just pointing out the differences. The better hybrids can easily approach the cost of a G1023RL or G0690, so when that’s the case and 220v is available, it doesn’t make sense to me to choose at a hybrid over a cabinet saw unless the option of 220v is out. If you haven’t read this yet, it spells out the differences in more detail.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#27 posted 04-17-2013 09:18 PM

The three belts make a lot more sense now. I’ve been wondering about that for a while. I also read through your post about the various table saw types and I really appreciate the time you spent on it. Great post.

I have another saw to throw into the mix. A Grizzly G1022Z with a ShopFox 52” Fence (and T slot upgrade) and 7’ rails. It has both cast iron wings and looks to be in good shape. He’s asking $350 for it and will throw in a couple extra jigs and a dado set.

My gut says this is the best deal yet and I can’t find too many negative reviews about the saw or the fence which is a plus. My only concern is the longevity of Grizzly saws. Will this one last as long as the 40 y/o deltas/craftsmen?

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Tedstor

1369 posts in 1288 days


#28 posted 04-17-2013 09:35 PM

The Grizz is an attractive deal. The fence is a nice upgrade, probably worth $150-200 by itself (assuming its a more modern design). If the dado or included blades/jigs are of good quality, that only adds to the value.
And that fence can be installed on your next TS if the Grizzly ever crapped-out.

With that said, I have a 113 craftsman with a delta T2 and its a solid, capable machine. I’d say my craftsman is as good as that grizzly. I paid $75-100 for the saw and $160 for the fence. If you can get that craftsman for $100, and its in good shape, it might still be worth consideration…..but you’ll definitely have to upgrade the fence. And like the Grizzly, and fence upgrade can always be removed and reinstalled on your next TS.

My crafty:

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toolie

1762 posts in 1284 days


#29 posted 04-17-2013 09:46 PM

Will this one last as long as the 40 y/o deltas/craftsmen?

absolutely, assuming it hasn’t been previously abused and is mechanically sound. is the shopfox a tsquare fence? if yes, then it’s probably worth the asking price. only real (slight) negatives would be splitter vs riving knife and, to a lesser extent, it’s a right tilt.

all the older unisaws (probably their first 30 or 40 years) were right tilts, and it only becomes something of an issue for beveled rip cuts. the blade tilts towards the fence and can trap an off cut between the blade and the fence with potentially detrimental consequences. there are perfectly viable work arounds for this, but it is an operational difference when comparing the saw to left tilts. moving the fence to the left of the blade resolves this for narrower beveled rip cuts, but will not address a beveled rip on a work piece that’s wider than the left side rip capacity of the fence system.

(and T slot upgrade)

so is it a “Z” or a “ZF”?

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g1022z_m.pdf

if it’s a ZF, i’d probably aggressively pursue it.

hope this helps.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#30 posted 04-17-2013 10:21 PM

The 1022Z with the Shop Fox Classic fence w/52” rip and cast iron wings sounds pretty attractive at $300….$350 is decent too, but I’d have to be in great shape or have the solid cast iron wings to spend that much. Generally jigs and old dado sets don’t have much value unless the dado is a good one. If he balks at $300, let him keep the extras. Go with your gut.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#31 posted 04-18-2013 12:54 AM

So the difference between the Z and ZF are the fence, rail mounted switch and dust collection. It doesn’t have the dust collection built in (though the mobile base he built for it does) and it didn’t have the shop fox fence on it originally so I’m thinking Z. I don’t have any dust collection set up yet anyway so I’m not too concerned about that aspect in the short term. He also upgraded it to a magnetic switch mounted on the rail so that one’s covered.

I’m on board with you Scott. At $300, I’d be sold, $350 while not bad, I feel I might be able to do a bit better. The dado blade is an avenger 6” stack set which was cheap when new and he said he didn’t like it so it was only used a couple times. I don’t have a set yet though so something is better than nothing I guess. He has a Forrest wwII on the saw now. He wants to keep the blade so I’m going to try to go $350 w/ blade or $300 w/o. We’ll see.

I’m going to go look at the craftsman 113 tomorrow so I’ll have a good idea about going that route soon. Unfortunately it looks like a very early Emerson model (manufactured in ‘69) and has some serious rust issues. If the mechanical are in good shape though it might be worth it. He wants $75 for that one so we’ll see.

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#32 posted 04-18-2013 01:33 AM

Do you know if the fence is the SF Classic (Biesemeyer clone) or the SF Original (dual locking)?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#33 posted 04-18-2013 01:38 AM

SF Classic I believe. It runs on a square tube rail and has two white (teflon?) boards on either side of the fence. Looks like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-G9220-Classic-Fence/dp/B0000DCZWZ

Do you have a picture of the SF Original that I can compare it to? Is it this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1410-Fence-Standard/dp/B0000DD2QI/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1366249055&sr=1-2&keywords=shop+fox+fence

The fence that is on it looks like the former.

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#34 posted 04-18-2013 01:52 AM

Nice…..the SF Classic was a lot more popular. Yes, the “Original” is now called the W1410. If the saw checks out, even $350 could end to be a good price.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#35 posted 04-19-2013 05:07 PM

Ok, now I feel like I’m swimming in good deals all of a sudden…

Somebody just offered me a Delta 34-444 with one cast wing, one bench dog router wing, and a porter cable 690 router, but it has the original delta tube fence. For $400

—Or—

The Grizzly G1022 w/ two (open) cast wings, and shopfox classic fence for $350.

Which of these is the better deal? Both are in my price range but I feel like I would want to upgrade the fence on the delta eventually. I could always sell the router (I have a Bosch already) so that would recoup some of the cost but probably not enough to pay for the fence.

What do you think?

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Craftsman70

241 posts in 781 days


#36 posted 04-19-2013 05:23 PM

Of those two, I’d go for the g1022, unless you don’t already have a router and table of some sort. In that case I’d try to get the delta for a little less and replace the fence.

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Rick M.

3974 posts in 1036 days


#37 posted 04-19-2013 05:57 PM

The Delta is the better machine. The router is worth maybe $50 so the TS is going for $350, a tad high considering the fence but it’s an excellent saw. You would definitely want to upgrade the fence but they are commonly available new or used.

The Grizzly is an ugly duckling but might be a good performer, the Shop Fox is probably original equipment.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

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toolie

1762 posts in 1284 days


#38 posted 04-19-2013 07:35 PM

since they are both right tilts, i’d go with the griz and the better fence, assuming their operating functionality and condition are equal. t2s are becoming scarce @ $160 and appear to be heading towards $200. using rick’s estimate of $350 for the delta, adding a t2 would put the investment at $550 if offset by the 690 sale. not a terribly good value, IMHO.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#39 posted 04-19-2013 09:01 PM

The Shop Fox Classic is definitely a better fence. The design of the two machines is very similar under the hood.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#40 posted 04-20-2013 12:54 PM

Did you see this Griz contractor saw with the Shop Fox W1410 fence for $250 hidden in this listing? (looks like it could be a G1022ZF) http://rochester.craigslist.org/tls/3707819181.html

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#41 posted 04-20-2013 04:36 PM

Yea I saw that one. He sold it already. I guess it was only up for 4 hours before he had someone come pick it up. I was kicking myself over that one already.

I went and picked up the Grizzly G1022 today so I think I’m all done trolling craigslist for a while. He let it go for $300 and spent about an hour and a half talking with me about woodworking in general and the things he’s done that have worked well. He was a very nice guy and again proves just how accommodating people in this hobby are.

Thank you all so much for your help. I’m sure I will be back with more questions soon. I’m off to setup and tune a table saw! Have a great weekend!

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Rick M.

3974 posts in 1036 days


#42 posted 04-20-2013 05:13 PM

Sounds like you got a deal.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#43 posted 04-20-2013 05:16 PM

Congrats. I think you got a nice deal too…a new SF Classic fence would cost that. Get it aligned, put a good blade on it, and fire it up! Then post some pics!!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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toolie

1762 posts in 1284 days


#44 posted 04-20-2013 06:13 PM

best of luck with the new saw. here are a few links for set up info, if needed:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/interactive/tablesaw-tune-up/

http://www.newwoodworker.com/basic/tsalign.html

http://www.americanfurnituredsgn.com/tablesaw_tune.htm

and a well regarded primmer on choosing table saw blades:

http://lumberjocks.com/knotscott/blog/12395

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#45 posted 05-01-2013 01:27 AM

Well, I finally crawled back up out of the shop… It’s been something of a battle between myself and my dial indicator over here. I finally managed to get within .003 in from parallel; I can live with that.

I saw someone suggested drilling two 3/4” holes in the side of the cabinet so a dowl rod can be inserted to shift the front trunnion. Seems like a good idea to me…

Thank you all very much for your input and advise, it has been invaluable. Check out my new saw!

 photo IMG_20130430_081348.jpg

I used a broken Rockwell motorized saw for an outfeed table (needs a box built to raise it up a bit.)
 photo IMG_20130430_081322.jpg

He even threw in a Rockler miter gauge.
 photo IMG_20130430_081409.jpg

I put on a Dewalt Thin-kerf Fine Finish blade and made some sawdust tonight and was very impressed with the results.

Again, you guys are the best! Thanks!

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#46 posted 05-01-2013 01:34 AM

Nice saw, but isn’t that a DW construction blade? .....you and your saw deserve better. DW’s Precision Trim series is better if you want to stay within the DW family. Freud Diablo, Irwin Marples, and CMT ITK Plus are other good value blades that are well suited for woodworking. Otherwise, the setup is looking great!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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ProfPenguin

31 posts in 537 days


#47 posted 05-01-2013 02:22 AM

Hahahaha! That is an impressive spot Scott. It is indeed a construction series blade. Tomorrow is my birthday so I hope to get something a bit nicer. I have read both of your blog posts and will probably be going with an LU88, unless you can think of a better value blade.

Thanks again!

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Rick M.

3974 posts in 1036 days


#48 posted 05-01-2013 05:48 AM

I have one of those Dewalt blades on my saw right now and considering what I paid, it actually cuts well. It isn’t as smooth as my Freud blades but then it has half as many teeth and cost a fraction as much.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

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knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#49 posted 05-01-2013 09:26 AM

The LU88 is an excellent choice IMHO. :-)

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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