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Rough cast iron table saw top

by boroughdan
posted 03-22-2013 12:18 AM


33 replies so far

View MT_Stringer's profile

MT_Stringer

3183 posts in 3432 days


#1 posted 03-22-2013 12:30 AM

Check the “Reviews” section under table saws for some feedback from owners who have them. Hope this helps.
Mike

-- Handcrafted by Mike Henderson - Channelview, Texas

View Dakkar's profile

Dakkar

349 posts in 2128 days


#2 posted 03-22-2013 12:34 AM

Unless you need something ASAP, I definitely suggest starting a Craigslist watch (as well as other local classifieds). You could get a lot more saw for your money if you educate yourself on your needs and how to check out a used unit. When I’m watching for something I check it 2-3 times a day and try to contact as quick as possible. The great deals don’t last for long.

View darthford's profile

darthford

612 posts in 2125 days


#3 posted 03-22-2013 12:42 AM

Grizzly 1023. I had a Rigid with cast iron wings, a bit under powered but for a $600 saw it was a good value. I just finished assembling a new Powermatic PM2000 and was underwhelmed by a number of things frankly. No more mirror finishes on the PM saw tables, the ground finish was nothing special imo. Table and wings are absolutely flat however which is more important. Not one damn thing on the saw was aligned, blade to miter slot way out, 90 degree stop way off, fence off, errors in the assembly instructions, wrong size bolts for the rear rail I had to go buy a bunch myself, couple of shipping rub damage spots. Assuming the Grizzly is flat and true I don’t see how this Powermatic is worth $1,500-$2,000 more than the Grizzly.

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kdc68

2691 posts in 2478 days


#4 posted 03-22-2013 01:16 AM

boroughdan -Knottscott has a ton of great info on this site pertaining to the table saw. You can find posts with his info in most all forums regarding table saws

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View crank49's profile

crank49

4032 posts in 3172 days


#5 posted 03-22-2013 01:24 AM

I have a Craftsman 21833 which is identical to the Ridgid 4512. If you go this way that’s fine as long as you understand you will have to replace it in a few years. And, you may have to replace it as soon as you get it home and put it together.
You must assemble this saw and check for a defect several of them have. When you raise the blade it will shift from one side to the other. What this is doing is throwing the blade to miter slot alignment out. If you have one of these saws with this defect it must be returned to the store for a refund or exchange. The problem is not fixable. I know because my saw has this problem and I didn’t think it was anything more than needing a little adjustment. WRONG. You can adjust it perfect, but the first time you change blade height your alignment just flew out the window.
Really too bad, because these are nice saws for the money. BUT, If I had it to do over I would go used from Craig’s list. I’ve seen some $3000 cabinet saws, unused and on the original shipping pallet, sell for less than $1000 on Craig’s list. Just have to be patient.

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 3849 days


#6 posted 03-22-2013 01:26 AM

Actually wood slides better on Blanchard ground surfaces. If
a table is ground exceptionally fine and flat the there can
be a suction effect. Some guys who’ve had wide jointers
reground with a Blanchard grind can say that the wood
slides better. Air can get in between the wood and
the iron and this is a good thing.

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shampeon

1885 posts in 2384 days


#7 posted 03-22-2013 01:38 AM

Do a search on Craigslist for “unisaw” and my guess is you’ll find a good cabinet saw for less than a grand. I’m partial to the art deco models, but I see good condition Unisaws routinely for $300-700.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View Bruce Taylor's profile

Bruce Taylor

21 posts in 2139 days


#8 posted 03-22-2013 01:39 AM

You don’t say how much the R4512 is going to cost you but I found one at my local HD sale of rental equipment for $225 including a new 60T blade that I wanted. When I called my local tool repair guy and gave him the serial number, he said ‘buy it’. Apparently, it is in the last Ridgid table saw series with a lifetime warranty. So, I bought it and after a bit of tweeking, it is working like a champ. It even came with a fold-down dolly that is plenty strong.

-- Captain Bruce, Washington State

View jonwright's profile

jonwright

68 posts in 2138 days


#9 posted 03-22-2013 02:37 AM

I have a Craftsman 21833 which is identical to the Ridgid 4512. If you go this way that’s fine as long as you You must assemble this saw and check for a defect several of them have. When you raise the blade it will shift from one side to the other. What this is doing is throwing the blade to miter slot alignment out. If you have one of these saws with this defect it must be returned to the store for a refund or exchange. The problem is not fixable. I know because my saw has this problem and I didn’t think it was anything more than needing a little adjustment. WRONG. You can adjust it perfect, but the first time you change blade height your alignment just flew out the window.

+1 on this one. I had read where they thought the problem was long ago and the stock is now “fixed”. bought mine in January. Took it back. Also the fence is rather flimsy so when you adjust it you need to make sure it’s still square to the blade. Besides the aforementioned alignment woes my fence drifted.

And then I really got mad when I attempted to put a 3/4” sheet MDF on the saw and it tipped over (yeah, after I’d already sized it down with a circular saw and a straight edge). Newbie mistake, OK – but that’s when I realized what I wanted out of my saw this one wasn’t going to deliver – ever.

But…if you get an R4512 that’s STRAIGHT and you are patient and meticulous by double checking your alignment it can work. Many folks do fine projects with contractor saws. Some of them may need to clean up their lines with hand planes or more sanding.

There are a few other choices, however, in your price range that should, by my research, give you a decent saw.

Griz has a special going on now on the G0690, so that’s close. I mean, for another $400 you’d be DONE and not have any excuses or compromises and won’t need to upgrade to a $3k saw unless you just wanted to. Also the Craftsman hybrid saw gets nice reviews, and I THINK Steel city has some decent hybrid saws that fit your budget as well. For that cash you’re also playing in Saw Stop’s contractor model, too.

After being so effed off and disappointed with my experience I decided I was either going to play deep or go home. I really started to understand why folks kept mentioning cabinet saw for consistent cuts and stretched my budget and bought one.

Patience, a willingness to travel, and lots of research can yield a CL find. But when it comes along you better have the cash and jump quickly. Bring your straight edge and square to make sure it’s aligned and OK. I’m sure there’s a bunch of tips on checking out used equipment.

View toolie's profile

toolie

2148 posts in 2829 days


#10 posted 03-22-2013 02:49 AM

it is in the last Ridgid table saw series with a lifetime warranty.

unfortunately, i believe this is absolutely untrue. to the best of my knowledge, no ridgid 4512 possessed a lifetime guaranty. the last ridgid stationary power tools that carried lifetime guaranties against manufacturing defects were gray in color, built by emerson electric for ridgid and predated the shift in manufacturing of the 3650/60 series TSs to one world technologies. what documentation was provided with the saw that supports that 4512 having a lifetime guaranty?

it may, if you are considered the original owner, qualify for registration with ridgid’s lifetime service agreement (LSA). here is ridgid’s current info on warranties and the LSA:

http://www.ridgid.com/tools/power-tool-warranty

boroughdan…........should you wish to pursue a 4512, try to find a HD that will honor harbor freight’s “25% off any single item” coupon. that $500 saw might be had for $375, which, iMHO, would be an extremely good deal for a 1.5 hp, dual voltage, left tilt, 30” rip capacity, CI TS with a built in mobile base, a 90 satisfaction guaranty, a 3 year new tool guaranty and eligibility for the original owner to register it with the LSA.

BTW,the gritty finish on the 4512 you saw is not indicative of the finish of the saw. whenever i’ve seen them in HDs, they are as smooth as any other CI top. and those saws are not treated terribly well by customers or the store staff. with a 90 day satisfaction guaranty, you can always bring it back if you’re not happy with it. not many other brands offer that.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Bruce Taylor's profile

Bruce Taylor

21 posts in 2139 days


#11 posted 03-22-2013 03:20 AM

Hi Toolie,

Have to say that I took the word of my tool repair guy on the lifetime warranty issue but, having said that and having spent a couple of hours setting the saw up, I have absolutely no complaints.

-- Captain Bruce, Washington State

View RogerInColorado's profile

RogerInColorado

321 posts in 2155 days


#12 posted 03-22-2013 03:37 AM

I’m in the camp of those who suggest patiently waiting for the right deal on craigslist and then pursuing it aggressively. I often see good Powermatic and Delta and Grizzly saws at bargain prices. Yes, there is also crap offered at diamond prices, but bargains exist and you can easily end up with a better used cabinet saw for what you would have paid for a new contractor saw.

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 2705 days


#13 posted 03-22-2013 03:38 AM

The best saw to get if FITB is not an option is the FITB which took top honors at the recent FITB? However is FITB is an option then listen to what the LJs say and flip a coin. If it’s FITB then go for it. Otherwise you may want to consider the top of the line FITB which in all tests of FITB came out far ahead of the others. Holy shitoly man, don’t listen to anybody but your heart.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

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toolie

2148 posts in 2829 days


#14 posted 03-22-2013 01:36 PM

anyone know what “FITB” refers to?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2793 posts in 2498 days


#15 posted 03-22-2013 02:19 PM

I would buy the $3000 saw now used for $1000. When you try to sell the $1000 saw you are sure you’ll grow out of it will only bring you $500.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8147 posts in 3576 days


#16 posted 03-22-2013 03:14 PM

Regarding the rough top…..any chance you looked at an R4510 and not the R4512? Every cast iron saw I’ve seen in stores, including the R4512’s, have a reasonably smooth cast iron surface. Unless it’s just dirty, or the cosmolene was never cleaned off, I’d expect the surface to be smooth.

http://lumberjocks.com/knotscott/blog/32154

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View boroughdan's profile

boroughdan

22 posts in 2143 days


#17 posted 03-23-2013 03:03 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I am thinking I may have been looking at the 4510. Like I said it really looked like they had just piled all the saws and everything else onto a counter.

How noticeable is the alignment problem with the 4512. It looks like people let these go for 150-250 on CL but I would hate to buy one and not realize it was misaligned until I notice cut quality problems.

I think I will end up getting a used cabinet saw on craigslist. I actually heard the article about buying used tools mentioned on Shop Talk Live and mentioned here. I will need to find that if its available online.

While my table saw is cheap it does cut wood. I have a thin kerf blade which helped a lot. My biggest issue is the lack of being able to accesorize it. Like with cute earrings and hats. No, that’s not it…

I think the miter slots are 5/8” and they are funky so building a crosscut sled for it is out. no cust collection. Very light. No zero cleareance insert. Im pretty sure skil doesnt make them and the insert is so skinny if I made one out of wood it wouldnt be sturdy unless i got really creative.

So that is why I am looking for a “bridge” saw. I think I can spend a couple of hundred and get a big increase from what I have now. Then start saving for my big boy saw. Those Grizzlys look pretty good and at a nice price.

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DKV

3940 posts in 2705 days


#18 posted 03-23-2013 03:06 AM

Borough, please define “big boy saw”.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

2691 posts in 2478 days


#19 posted 03-23-2013 03:14 AM

DKV – boroughdan needs to FITB eh?

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

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DKV

3940 posts in 2705 days


#20 posted 03-23-2013 03:17 AM

Kdc, just asking since I do not know what a big boy saw is. An example would help…

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View tefinn's profile

tefinn

1222 posts in 2638 days


#21 posted 03-23-2013 03:17 AM

@toolie – FITB = Fill In The Blank

-- Tom Finnigan - Measures? We don't need no stinking measures! - Hmm, maybe thats why my project pieces don't fit.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8147 posts in 3576 days


#22 posted 03-23-2013 03:20 AM

boroughdan – If you’d post your general geographic location, someone might actually have or a know of a good deal on a saw for you.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

2691 posts in 2478 days


#23 posted 03-23-2013 03:22 AM

DKV...no offense, I was reading your post and thought it was comical….

The best saw to get if FITB is not an option is the FITB which took top honors at the recent FITB? However is FITB is an option then listen to what the LJs say and flip a coin. If it’s FITB then go for it. Otherwise you may want to consider the top of the line FITB which in all tests of FITB came out far ahead of the others. Holy shitoly man, don’t listen to anybody but your heart

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 2705 days


#24 posted 03-23-2013 03:26 AM

Hey guys, if boroughdan is shy then maybe one of his saw advisors can tell me what a big boy saw is. Again, just askin’. Thanks,

Kdc, no offense taken…

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

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boroughdan

22 posts in 2143 days


#25 posted 03-23-2013 03:37 AM

Sorry I didn’t FITB…that one is new to me.

By big boy saw I mean http://www.grizzly.com/products/14-Sliding-Table-Saw/G0501

I wish!

More realistically I mean something like the grizzlys that have been suggested. I keep going back and forth in my head about the new and used. 1500 for a great saw that will last for durability and functionality reasons sounds like a great deal to me. But if I can get the same saw that is a couple of years old for half the price all the better.

I’m in the Nashville area.

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boroughdan

22 posts in 2143 days


#26 posted 03-23-2013 03:43 AM

To simplify. Not a contractor saw.

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 2705 days


#27 posted 03-23-2013 03:51 AM

Boroughdan, not to press the point but “big boys” use contractor saws everyday of the week to accomplish “big boy” projects. In fact, I would be willing to bet that more of the LJ community own a tablesaw that is other than your definition of a “big boy” saw. Also, if you look at the projects forum you will see some pretty amazing builds that have been accomplished on saws other than “big boy” saws. I forget the old saying but it goes along the lines of it’s the artist that creates not the tool. As HMike would say, “just sayin’”.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

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boroughdan

22 posts in 2143 days


#28 posted 03-23-2013 04:05 AM

I agree like i said my saw gets the job done. But a larger saw would make it easier i beleive. I wasnt saying if someone uses a contractor saw they are a little boy. Just a little figure of speech.

Ive only been at this for about a year so what do i know. I just want to get the best equipmentt for my budget.

View jordanp's profile

jordanp

1086 posts in 2141 days


#29 posted 03-23-2013 04:43 AM

I picked up an Old Craftsman series 100 Table saw Belt Driven blade with a Huge Steel top ( Cabinet Style TS ) for $150 bucks i put maybe another $100 putting it on wheels and replacing the blade.. I couldn’t ask for a better table saw

I have seen more than a few of these on criags list ranging from $150 to $250 depending on the condition..

-- J. Palmer Woodworks - Rockwall TX -I woke up this morning thinking “man, I really hope someone posted some soul scarring sh*t on LJs today.” -- - Billy

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 2705 days


#30 posted 03-23-2013 04:51 AM

Boroughdan, I think you said in one of your posts that your current saw does cut ok. To me it is more important to have flat and square lumber for your projects. For $1000 you could start by investing in a jointer and planer.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8147 posts in 3576 days


#31 posted 03-23-2013 10:55 AM

There are several decent used full size contractor saws in your area that could make for a good interim saw. 50% of new is the general rule of thumb (+/- a bit). Some are asking a bit too much, but a reasonable offer can help fix that. Just because several are asking too much, doesn’t mean they’ll sell for that….they’re often just benchmarking off each other’s high prices. Rust comes off pretty easily within reason, and is an excellent bartering point. Lack of the original blade guard should be another automatic discount, so don’t be bashful if they’re asking $500 for a used $600 saw….worst they can say is “no” and call you names (most won’t). Be friendly, reasonable, and patient….prices tend to drop once the saw has been sitting for a few weeks with no activity.

http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3673107252.html
http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3665505643.html
http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3622923844.html
http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3622764171.html
http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3691999154.html
http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3685198983.html
http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3683781442.html
http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3682573825.html (would need a better fence)
http://nashville.craigslist.org/tls/3664683343.html (pics are horrible, but it has a nice fence)

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View toolie's profile

toolie

2148 posts in 2829 days


#32 posted 03-23-2013 12:08 PM

+1 on KS’s comments. but is it me, or do those prices (all but the last two) seem high? a ridgid 2424 for $450? that’s about double what i’ve seen them go for in the NYC area. are sellers that negotiable in the nashville area? find a HD that honors the HF “(20 or 25) % off any single item” coupon and the 4512 is as low as $375.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8147 posts in 3576 days


#33 posted 03-23-2013 12:46 PM

is it me, or do those prices (all but the last two) seem high?

They seemed high to me too, but it doesn’t mean reasonable offers won’t be accepted if no one is buying at those asking prices. Sometimes people list things based on what others are asking, and they all end up in left field with their prices….it’s up to us to let them know the error of their ways! ;-)

The Delta for $300 could be a nice deal if it has a T2 fence….especially with cast iron wings. I’d make a similar to slightly higher offer for the other Delta with the PM fence….~ $350-$375. I’d probably go as high as $425 to $450 for the Shop Fox if it has a mobile base, original accessories, and any other goodies….solid cast wings, Alumarip Classic fence, nice condition. Nothing to lose by making a reasonable offer.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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