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All Replies on Craftsman 113.298762 - Delta T2 or Rigid TS3612, or other?

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Craftsman 113.298762 - Delta T2 or Rigid TS3612, or other?

by diy11
posted 02-19-2013 07:46 AM


24 replies so far

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5514 posts in 2064 days


#1 posted 02-19-2013 10:17 AM

If your Craftsman saw plugs into a standard 120v outlet, it’s not really 3hp….that’s marketing deception. The motor plate should give the accurate hp rating, which should be in the 1.5hp range. The guts of your Cman saw are essentially the same as the Ridgid contractor saw, and were both made by Emerson. The Ridgid has an upgraded fence, and built in wheels, but otherwise many of the parts are interchangeable with your saw. The Delta’s fence isn’t so hot either…nice saw, but would also benefit from a fence upgrade, so it’d be kind of a lateral move. They all have similar potential that boils down to setup, blade, and fence. The old Emerson Cman saws go in the $100-$150 range pretty regularly here….YMMV.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View toolie's profile

toolie

1769 posts in 1317 days


#2 posted 02-19-2013 03:08 PM

i would seriously look at the 3612 for $325. for an older style unit (motor hanging out the back) without a riving knife, it’s still one of the best contractor saws ever built. and those older, gray colored ridgid stationary power tools carry a lifetime guaranty against manufacturing defects that attaches to the tool regardless of ownership. the fence is excellent, even though it isn’t a “tsquare” fence in the t2 or biesmeyer tradition, but once aligned, it holds its settings well and is extremely reliable. and it’s 1.5hp motor is a convertible, dual voltage unit that can be run on either 110 or 220v power. it’s a great saw that will last years if maintained properly.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1321 days


#3 posted 02-19-2013 03:40 PM

I also have a 113 and have upgraded to a T2. I am very pleased with the saw/fence combo. It’s a very capable machine.
Here are my thoughts:
- if you don’t use a TS very often, and only make an occasional project, the least expensive option is probably best. (As long as it gives acceptable results). I think a fence upgrade is probably your best play.

- in addition to the T2, look at the vega fence. It costs $40-50 more than the T2, but is reportedly easier to install on a 113 and just as accurate.

View diy11's profile

diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#4 posted 02-20-2013 10:47 PM

Thanks for the information, guys! That $325 Rigid sold before the end of the day! I noticed it didn’t have the splitter or guard, and I’m a firm believer in both. I read here some Craftsman models will fit, and aftermarkets cost quite a bit. I’m still weighing factors. If I could get $125 for mine, and find a nice 3612 for $300, it would be about a wash for cost and I would have the extra width.

It’s my understanding the 3612 is the last of the USA made models (thanks for informing me of the lifetime defect warranty). Are there any newer Rigid models worth considering if they pop up?

Thanks again, everyone!

View toolie's profile

toolie

1769 posts in 1317 days


#5 posted 02-20-2013 10:59 PM

Are there any newer Rigid models worth considering if they pop up?

IMHO, the 3650/60 was a good successor to the 3612, and the granite topped 4511 (with it’s cabinet mounted trunions, it was like a junior cabinet saw with it’s 1.5hp motor) and current CI 4512 are also good saws. none of these last three models carry the same lifetime guaranty against defects that the gray colored ridgids do, and as used tools, none of them are LSA eligible (the LSA is available only to the original owner of a new tool). and i wouldn’t turn my nose up at a good ridgid 2424 or even a 2412. both are a little lesser in terms of features than a 3612, but they can offer a great value and their fences are also adjustable for greater rip capacity.

BTW, does your budget allow for a new 4512? while the saw is $500, if you can find a HD that will honor HFs “20 (now in some cases, 25)% off any single item coupon, that 4512 could be had for as little as $375. just something to consider.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#6 posted 02-20-2013 11:08 PM

Hmmm, I hadn’t even considered brand new as being feasible! It’s more than I wanted to (or should) spend, but I will definitely have to take a look at the 4512! Is the fence as good as the one on the 3612? The other 3612 for $300 has also sold, and there are two more, but they are asking $389 and $375, which older posts here imply is too much.

View toolie's profile

toolie

1769 posts in 1317 days


#7 posted 02-21-2013 01:41 AM

Is the fence as good as the one on the 3612?

the primary difference is that the 4512 fence rails are two pieces each, as were the 4511 fence rails. the 4511, however, had a tsquare fence that clamped solely to the front fence rail. the 4512 fence clamps to both the front and rear rail, like the 3612 (and lesser ridgid stationary saws of that era) and 3650/60 fences, but those saws had one piece rails. some users have noted dissatisfaction with the two piece rails, while others have sung it’s praises. my sense is that a lot of the rails’ performance is a function of the attention paid to the assembly by the individual who assembles the rail. i can say that the OEM fence on my ridgid ts2412 is as accurate as the delta t2 on by also emerson built 113 series c-man contractor saw.

BTW, just by way of passing along hopefully useful information, i purchased a 4511 when they were clearanced at HD and wanted to apply a 20% HF coupon to the purchase. a HD manager refused the coupon. i called HD customer service (800-homedepot) and explained the situation to the rep. they called the store and instructed the manager to accept the coupon. i’ve also just gone back to the same store on a different day and had a different manager accept a coupon. perseverance can pay off. good luck.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#8 posted 02-23-2013 08:09 PM

The 4512 looks nice online and in person. The only negatives seem to be the non-cast iron extensions, and Chinese parts. I’m still not sure which way to go – T2 (Vega seems too expensive for ending up with the same size cutting ability), used 3612, or new 4512.

This Dewalt is also currently for sale for only a $180 asking price, but I know little about Dewalt table saws other that in general, their products are very good. The cheaper price makes me think it is less likely to fit the bill.

What a great asset this website is to those of us who don’t have the knowledge of the good and bad of various models of shop equipment!

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1321 days


#9 posted 02-23-2013 08:40 PM

I still think the fence upgrade is the way to go. The other saws you’re looking at aren’t necessarily a HUGE upgrade form the 113 (arguably). And I think the T2 (or Vega) is a better fence than the stock fence on the 4512.

I own the T2 and have never used the vega. However, the vega reportedly installs easier on a 113.

View diy11's profile

diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#10 posted 02-23-2013 08:57 PM

Thanks again, Tedstor. I’m sure I would really like the 113 if it had come with a nice fence. Too bad they came with such a poorly designed one! It looks like the price on the T2’s is going up with the discontinuance. I’m surprised the market isn’t there for it as it gets almost universal praise.

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112322 posts in 2265 days


#11 posted 02-23-2013 09:16 PM

Sorry but I think fence upgrades are a waste of money on $100 saws. If you can get a new Ridgid for $400 or less your way ahead of the game. I have a number of students who have purchased the Rigid 4512 and they are very happy with theirs.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#12 posted 02-23-2013 10:06 PM

Thanks, a1Jim. I guess when it’s thought of as putting a $200 fence on a $100 saw, it doesn’t sound as good. If I go with a different one, a new 4512 for $400 also does seem better than a ten year old 3612 for $300.

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diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#13 posted 02-24-2013 11:02 PM

Still thinking, reading comments, and looking. A new (used) listing just came out, for a Rigid R4511 for $300 obo. It appears to be in mint condition. I know it has the granite tops which gets mixed reviews. I’m wondering why the weight listed is well over 100 pounds heavier than the 3612. Is it the granite top? Seems like a pretty good deal if I could get it for $250 – $275. Any thoughts would be welcomed.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5514 posts in 2064 days


#14 posted 02-24-2013 11:27 PM

The granite is heavier than cast iron, and the cabinet mounted trunnion system is heavier than the table mounted system on the R4512. Most owners of the granite saws really like the granite. Even $300 is a pretty good deal on that….less makes it a steal IMO. If it runs well, I wouldn’t hesitate.

Here’s what’s under the hood:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#15 posted 02-25-2013 12:58 AM

Thanks for the pictures and opinion, knotscott! I take it the 4511 might be considered a bit of a step up from a 3612 or a new 4512 then?

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5514 posts in 2064 days


#16 posted 02-25-2013 02:31 AM

It’s subjective….and they have different features. The R4511 has cabinet mounted trunnions, which are easier to reach and easier to align, plus are heavier. I’d guess that it’ll go quickly if the price is right. Not everyone likes the granite top, but it’s heavier and flatter. The fence on the R4511 is arguably not quite as good as the one on the 3612. The R4511 and R4512 have riving knives, the TS3612 does not. The R4511 and R4512 are hybrid style saws with the motor enclosed in the cabinet, which saves space, improves DC, and allows for a shorter drive belt (theoretically smoother) ....the 3612 has an outboard motor. Pick what you like….as with any saw, the end performance is largely influenced by setup and blade choice.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#17 posted 02-25-2013 03:11 AM

Thanks for the information! It sold within a few hours just like the $325 TS3612. I guess nice saws for a decent price sell almost immediately in the Twin Cities. I’m a bit surprised considering the economy, and the possibility of a similar brand new one for only about $100 more.

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diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#18 posted 03-13-2013 06:32 AM

This Grizzly table saw just came out on Craigslist for only $225, and I know most speak highly of them. Anyone’s thoughts? It says excellent condition with a new Freud blade, original stand with wheels, and passes the nickel test. I’m guessing this is considered above the Rigid models, and will go fast, but don’t know for sure, so any help would be appreciated.

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4138 posts in 1068 days


#19 posted 03-13-2013 08:09 AM

I would be wary of a new looking Ridgid for sale, it probably has alignment problems. You didn’t mention anything wrong with your Craftsman saw other than the fence, if that’s the case I would just buy a new fence: T2, Unifence, or Vega. The Delta fences are among the best ever made, especially the Unifence, and the fence makes or breaks a saw. And yeah, Grizzly is a definite step up from Ridgid but that one will probably also need a new fence.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View JohnMeeley's profile

JohnMeeley

253 posts in 1021 days


#20 posted 03-13-2013 08:30 AM

Your ‘Grizzly’ is an AMT made in Taiwan. I know this because I have the identical saw. If it predates 1962, it may have been cast in the States.

-- "The greatest pleasure in life is doing what others say you cannot do."-Walter Bagehot

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5514 posts in 2064 days


#21 posted 03-13-2013 09:39 AM

That Griz is likely an older G1022. It does have grated cast iron wings, but otherwise is a straight forward basic traditional contractor saw with an average fence, outboard motor, no riving knife, and connecting rods as an arbor carriage. $225 isn’t terrible, but it’s not a steal IMO. Grizzly is a well regarded name, but each tool is different….I wouldn’t necessarily rate it higher than any that have been mentioned so far. They’re all only as good as the alignment, fence, and blade, plus it’s features are fairly basic. Ask if they still have the original splitter/blade guard. If it runs well, I’d ask what they’d take for it, or offer less.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#22 posted 03-13-2013 04:23 PM

Thanks again, guys!

View canadianchips's profile

canadianchips

1831 posts in 1685 days


#23 posted 03-13-2013 06:23 PM

An LJ called “Kiefer” has made modification to exsisting fence on craftsman. Check it out. I wouldnt spend money on “Incra”, ” Beismeyer” or any other fence.

-- "My mission in life - make everyone smile !"

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diy11

12 posts in 612 days


#24 posted 03-13-2013 06:32 PM

I’ll do that, canadianchips. Thanks!

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