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How Wide a Jointer? Otra Vez

by DavidNJ
posted 563 days ago


39 replies so far

View RVroman's profile

RVroman

163 posts in 658 days


#1 posted 563 days ago

For what it is worth, I had the delta version of the Grizzly 6×28 benchtop jointer you have above. It took less than 6 months to realize it did not meet the needs of a workshop. (although I did build a set of bunk beds from rough stock with that and a dewalt 735 planer, so it is possible)

I upgraded to a “full size” 6 inch jointer from Steel City for about $500 and have not looked back. While an 8” would be great, it was just too hard to justify the extra cost, and the 6” does 95% of what I need. For the other 5% I just get the mill or yard to make it S3S and pay about 10 cents per bf for the convenience and space savings in the shop.

-- Robert --- making toothpicks one 3x3x12 blank at a time!

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

909 posts in 659 days


#2 posted 563 days ago

I have a Jet JJP12-HH (helical head) combo machine. I like it a lot. But if I were in your situation space and budget wise, I’d look hard at the Rikon 10” combo machine. I’ve seen much better reviews on it than I have on the Jet. They’re both compact machines, but the Rikon is supposed to be more robust.

Occasionally I see in Inca (Swiss made) combo machine of abut the same capacity (10”) on CL, usually at a good price.

I generally like Grizzly tools, but the 10” sounds like it may be over the top as far as your budget is concerned.

View live4ever's profile

live4ever

983 posts in 1644 days


#3 posted 563 days ago

Unless you’re obtaining wide boards regularly, 8” ends up being enough jointer for most hobbyists. A quality 8” jointer isn’t that expensive (especially used), but unfortunately it is heavy, and it does need some floor space.

Why not get a planer first and see if a sled can handle your face-jointing needs? You’ll still need an edge-jointing method, but that’s easier to accomplish with non-jointer methods than face-jointing.

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

View Loren's profile

Loren

7443 posts in 2282 days


#4 posted 563 days ago

The RIKON 10 is a knockoff of the INCA. The INCA
is an excellent machine for the furniture artisan
with limited space.

I don’t think you’ll go wrong with either RIKON.
There are a lot of INCA machines in the NY area
and they come up for sale often and get snapped
up fast if the seller isn’t unreasonable. The 10”
with Tersa head should go in the $500-800 range.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#5 posted 563 days ago

Umm….a sled can face join a board without any other work done to it? Both of the examples above jointed the board first. However, I can see how the sled could do it, cupped side up. Wouldn’t a twist be difficult to deal with? Edge jointing can be done with an jig on a table saw…I already have that jig.

I bought a power planer at HF for $25 to see what it was like…and I liked the result. A mini-jointer in a way. It is actually possible to finish a wider board with it: do a strip the width of the blade, then come back at an angle using the back of the unit on the previously cut spot as a height reference.

The mill (as far as I know only one within about 75 miles) is about a 2-to-3 hr round trip. Ok for well defined projects; less so for ad hoc.

Runswithscissors, that Jet is nice, quick to change over, tied for best overall in Fine Woodworking. 500lb, $3400 with the cutter head, $2300 with blades…out of my range.

You are right, the 10” Rikon clearly trumps the Grizzly pieces. The Grizzly doesn’t add enough to justify its de facto $300 higher price. However, there are bookcase sides and bookcase and cabinet shelves that would be nice to have a 12” planer capability.

That trip to the mill is looking better and better….

View live4ever's profile

live4ever

983 posts in 1644 days


#6 posted 563 days ago

A planer sled can face-joint a board without any other work, yes. There are slightly different variations out there, but they all rely on supporting the twist of the board with wedges or hot glue drops, etc. such that the board doesn’t rock. Here is Keith Rust’s design:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop/video/a-planer-sled-for-milling-lumber.aspx

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

909 posts in 659 days


#7 posted 563 days ago

Actually, I got my Jet JJP12 HH for $1800. It was a “scratch & dent” at the Jet/PM facility in Auburn, WA. They advertise S & D stuff from time to time on CL. It was a 2 1/2 or 3 hr. drive for me, but worth it. Had to pay sales tax, of course. That was last fall. Then, a few weeks later, they had another for $1895—but that one included a mobile base.

I never found a single scratch or dent on mine. The guys at the warehouse guessed it might have been a demo at a trade show, as there were a few planer chips in it.

I haven’t seen one now for a while. But I always check Seattle CL out of curiosity.

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#8 posted 563 days ago

live4ever, that is one large, thick, heavy sled! Not sure how it handles a cupped board rather than a twisted board. He did some design stuff different then I would: bungee cord? I would have just floated the laterals on a 1/4 bolt with an unthreaded shank set into an insert and secured with a nut.

Making left and right supports would have handled a cupped board; the cross strips were making point contact anyway since the board isn’t flat and is rigid.

Instead of friction strips, he used stair tread material, a vertical board maybe 1/2” taller than the supports or even adjustable would have prevented the feed from dragging the board off the sled.

Did he really need two 1/2” boards with a 1” spacer between them for bending strength? One 3/4” sheet of plywood (or two glued together) wouldn’t have been strong enough? After all, when pressure is on it is supported by the planer. His roller couldn’t have been than level with the planer bed.

There are some nice Steel City planers. Under $500 with cutter heads and nothing but excellent reviews on Amazon (12 on each of 2 models). The knife version is under $300. Both much nicer price points, especially since the planer looks like a longer term investment.

Loren, where do you find the Inca units? I can’t find any for sale.

The Rikon 10” seems more manageable to get into the basement. However, the 12” seems a lot more manageable with respect to switching from jointer to planer and for using as a planer. However, it would need to be partially disassembled to get it into the basement: removal of the infeed/outfeed tables, fence isshipped unassembled and the fence mount needs to removed and reinstalled according to the manual. That will require realignment of the tables. The remaining unit would have the skid cut down to the size of the unit and then maneuvered on an appliance cart.

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#9 posted 562 days ago

runswithscissors, that was a great deal.

My choice now seems to be between do nothing, get a planer (most likely a Steel City unit) and use a sled (an attractive alternative, probably just under $500), or get one of the two Rikons ($1050 and $1700).

One advantage of a combo unit is the jointer and planer share the same space; they require minimally about 9’-11’ continuiously to be able to run 4’ to 5’ boards on the ability to expand that to 17’ when needed. Somehow it would need to be positioned to use space with the table saw which has a similar requirement.

The benchtop unit has an advantage since at its higher height the work piece can extend over other stuff. It also can be easily moved, is easier to put in place, and takes up less space when in use. One way to use it for jointing would be to use a hand power planer to knock of the peaks on one side. That is one of the examples in the WoodWhisper example. However, that is much more time consuming than just throwing a board on a jointer.

View LeChuck's profile

LeChuck

417 posts in 1696 days


#10 posted 562 days ago

I used to have a clone of that Rikon combo machine, the small one on the left, and hated it (and it was cheaper to buy that the prices you are quoting).

If you’re going to use a planer and a jointer to dimension wood, those functions are complementary in my opinion, and you should be able to go from one to the other quickly, especially if it involves dimensioning a bunch of stock, not just one board). That machine was a pain to switch from one function to the other, had to move or remove the fence, remove the table or put it back on (and have a place to put it down), move the dust chute around (and move the planer table up to hold it in place). The table has to be eyeballed if you want to put it back on in the exact same position as before (it’s the outfeed table so you have to keep your alignment), and yes it gives you a wider jointer, but it’s cheap stuff with steel and no cast iron fence or table (except for the planer bed).

But then again, you’d also lose an extra couple inches on the planer side of things compared to a lunchbox planer, and there are good ones out there, better and more precise than the one in that Rikon (I love my Makita 2012NB).

At first you might feel like you can deal with that stuff, but it quickly becomes too much I think. For me a combo machine is really ok if you must have one in terms of space, and if change over is very minimal and won’t ruin your settings. Baring that, it’s just frustrating and separate machines are always the way to go if you can.

For space, you can easily mount a lunchbox planer on a rolling cart and just put it in a corner when it’s not in use. It requires some length only when boards are going through it. Jointer doesn’t move as easily but it’s possible too. I do the same with my bandsaw. In its position near the wall I can do short to medium length boards, but when I run longer boards though and it needs to clear the tops of the other machines nearby, I just pull it out a foot or 2.

I had a 6” Harbor Freight jointer until recently, but I returned it because I discovered the fence was twisted. That being said, I also discovered that such a machine is simply too small to be really practical, and I’m not just talking about the 6 inch capacity. The tables were too short, so it wasn’t practical for longer stock, and the fence was too narrow, which made it hard to do the edges on longer and wider stock. I decided that when I do get a power jointer again, it will have to be a bigger model, and 8 inch minimum, below that is just too restrictive in my opinion. You usually don’t have your board at the final width when you plane the faces, so that really limits what you can do.

In the meantime, it will be hand planes (actually even with a jointer, it’s a good thing to be able to do). You don’t have to make it dead flat, just flat enough to run through the planer, then flip over. As for edges, it’s also pretty quick in my opinion to create an edge that’s flat enough to run against the fence of your table saw, make a thin rip cut on the other edge, the flip it around and cut to final width.

-- David - Tucson, AZ

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2305 posts in 1517 days


#11 posted 562 days ago

I have a 6” jointer; occaisionally I dream of getting an 8” jointer, but for most projects the 6” has been enough. I’ve tried the Woodwhisperer technique for jointing wider boards but not really had much success. I find it much easier to get a board reasonably flat with hand planes and then run it through my planer.
In practice, it is easier to work around having a smaller jointer ie. 6” instead of 8” or 10” than to have a smaller planer. I looked at getting a combo machine (I have limited shop space too) but I’d really regret having only 10” planer.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2950 posts in 921 days


#12 posted 562 days ago

If you don’t want to spend a lot of money, HF has a jointer and a planer you can get for under 500$. I have the 6” rabbit joiner, but I only use it to straighten the end of the board unless I have a small board with a bow in it, but I’m just likely to throw that board away as to try and plane it on my joiner.
I think to do it right you need both as a dedicated machine. Getting one that does both competently is going to be hard.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View Matt Rogers's profile

Matt Rogers

45 posts in 604 days


#13 posted 562 days ago

I don’t want to gloat, but I would recommend that anyone looking for a decent jointer and willing to spend up to $1000 looks for an old jointer like an American, Yates, Oliver, Clement, etc. For $700 I got a 16” American jointer from the ‘20s. It is finally given me the confidence in my jointer over my previous Grizzly 6” model that I never really trusted (not necessarily its fault, but I wanted to joint longer and wider boards than it could handle. Now with a full 7’+ long bed, I can run a full 8’-10’ board or timber on this jointer and get a true face. It also really helps me make simple wood block stools by jointing the faces of 12”x12” timbers.

Now you do have to check them out carefully and be willing to do some repairing and replacing bearings, but you end up with the last machine that you will ever need. I got both lucky and unlucky because it turns out that my cutterhead was busted by the previous owner who ran it until there was lots of play between the cutterhead shaft and bearing. I did not catch that before purchasing the unit. However, my uncle happens to work in a machine shop and re-machined the cutterhead and made new bearing retainers to get it back into working condition. That plus $40 of bearings from Accurate Bearings and I can face joint boards as wide as my 15” planer.

The only other thing that I did was replace the 5hp 3-phase motor with a single phase used motor of the same size with new belts. Now I have to eventually find an old beast of a planer to go along with it, but my Delta is doing fine for now.

Check out the forums at Old Woodworking Machinery (OWWM) and you will find lots of reviews and advise on these old machines.

-- Matt Rogers, http://www.cleanairwoodworks.com

View Straightbowed's profile

Straightbowed

717 posts in 932 days


#14 posted 562 days ago

there is a 12 inch jointer for sale in nashville tn for like 1800

-- Stevo, work in tha city woodshop in the country

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#15 posted 562 days ago

The Steel City unit with 2 blades is about the same price as the HF unit, better warranty. I’m a bit more comfortable with something Steel City hangs there name on than HF. Note Steel City sells on Amazon, is sold by HD and Lowes, and is private labeled by Sears. I have HF stuff, bu for power tools limit that to where the price difference is significant: hydraulic scissor table for $180, competitors $350-$700, 10” sliding miter saw $80, competitors $150-$400.

If I went the combo route it seems the 12” Rikon would be the best choice. However, that is $1700. The Steel City 2 blade unit is $300, the unit with helical cutters is $490. However, those cutters are two sided and may not give a life expectancy advantage over the blades which are also 2-sided.

A word on 16” jointers, sliding table saws, etc. In my computer all the drives are 3TB except for the 2TB “C Drive”. The limiting factor is not the number of drives. The first limit is the number of 6GB SATA III ports. The second limit is the number of 3.5” drive bays. The third is heat rejection from those drive bays if fully populated.

The same factor here. I’d love to have a 3000 ft² shop. When the dust settles I may have 400 sq ft. Right now it is a disjoint 200 ft². There won’t be any sliding table saws or 16” jointer. Based on this thread there may or may not be a jointer. After the table saw with router table, cyclone dust collector, and moving my drill press downstairs, the next floor standing tool is likely to be a bandsaw or maybe a jointer/planer combo.

My question now is just adding a decent portable 12” planer going to be enough.

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2833 posts in 882 days


#16 posted 562 days ago

Where are all you guys finding wood (rough cut or s2s) that doesn’t need to be face jointed?? I have never come across a board without some kind of crook or twist.

I power plane and hand joint.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1253 posts in 582 days


#17 posted 562 days ago

I plane quite a bit of rough lumber on a 20” planer and generally if I have a cupped board I run it through with the peak up and take very light passes(1/32”) till it flattens out then flip it and hog off the other side (1/8-3/16).
as long as you make the passes light enough that the feed rollers don’t press the board flat then it works fine.
I have never liked the idea of trueing up a board on a jointer. I knew a guy who was cleaning up a 15” piece of red oak and the jointer launched it from his grasp. lets just say all that remains is the thumb on his right hand.
just some food for thought

View Loren's profile

Loren

7443 posts in 2282 days


#18 posted 562 days ago

INCA machines come up on Craigslist mostly. Ebay sometimes.

You can use searchtempest to find them, but I prefer
Google advanced search for casual searching because
searchtempest is not as reliable (but it does do
geographic radii – which doesn’t matter for INCA
because you’ll still only find about 40 results if
you search all of the USA).

type this into Google:

site: craigslist.org/tls inca

The INCA yahoo group is another good source for
leads and you can post a request to acquire a machine
or parts and often get some leads.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112018 posts in 2211 days


#19 posted 562 days ago

Everyone wants bigger and better but I’m not really sure it’s necessary I own a 12” spiral head Grizzly jointer. I’ve had a few folks PM me about what jointer to buy,and after a few messages back and forth we usually conclude that a good number of the folks I”ve talked to about jointers seldom need more than a 8” jointer,but what they really do need are jointers with longer beds. and on occasion a jig like this http://lumberjocks.com/tenontim/blog/26637
This is why I would never recommend a bench to top jointer because of their short beds they are only useful for small projects that use stock 24” long or shorter. Everyone has their take on what brand to go with, as for me I’ve ha very good luck with Grizzly products. My two cents.

Edit
Sorry I didn’t notice you were already aware of Tenontim”s blog.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View Matt Rogers's profile

Matt Rogers

45 posts in 604 days


#20 posted 562 days ago

I understand that there is a danger to all tools, but you can’t take out twist on a planer (without jigs), no matter how light of a pass you take. If you plane a board that is 10’ long and has any twist to it, you will still have that same twist after planing. For a 4/4 board, that might be OK if you fasten it down and untwist it during assembly, but for a 8/4 or 12/4 timber, twist will ruin alignment.

I recently built a table base that was two vertical semi-circles built up out of tapered laminations – imagine a 3”thick barrel cut in half – one for each leg, but with 3/4” thick tapered staves vs the flat and wide staves like in most barrels. I did not joint each of those pieces, just planed each one from rough stock. So when I ripped the boards to width and then bandsawed the taper, the pieces sometimes had a slight twist left over. In the course of gluing the 30 tapered boards together to make a leg, I ended up with a cylinder that had a slight twist to it. No way to take out a twist in a glu-lam that is both 3” thick and cylindrical. It was not an issue in this project because the set of legs was just a mock-up for a customer’s project, but it could have caused a serious issue that would not be visible until after the glue-up was complete. Hence the need for face jointing any boards that will really matter in a project. That goes for any good glue-up, thick timbers, complicated joinery.

Sure you can get a way without it, but that is why the jointer has existed for hundreds of years. I even remember seeing a 6’ long antique wooden jointer at the WoodenBoat festival in Mystic, CT. It was just like a long wooden hand plane jointer, but mounted upside down and 6’ long. You would take your board to this jointer, as opposed to taking the jointer to the board.

Cup is another matter and I agree that most boards that are used for projects the don’t require complicated joinery, such as adirondack chairs and the like, can be just planed both sides and come out fine. For large runs of lumber, I usually just run boards through the planer both sides and reject the few boards that have too much excessive twist to use for smaller projects, or I send them through the jointer.

Not trying to cause a fuss, but the jointer is a great tool when your take the time to set it up and get comfortable with it.

-- Matt Rogers, http://www.cleanairwoodworks.com

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#21 posted 562 days ago

Shawn, are jointer accidents common?

Loren, I’m finding zip that is useful on Craigslist or eBay. Especially on the low-end cost-wise, pickup is a major factor. Also, with used equipment, condition is important. As a result, you’re in for the round-trip whether it is as good as advertised or not. Something 90 minutes away, plus tolls, is another $50 or more. That assumes it fits in the truck. Something like a large jointer/planer is probably easier to move into a low trailer. After the purchase the next issue will availability of manuals and parts. Not always easy to find.

On the phone with Steel City, they were actually steering me a bit toward their least expensive portable model. Their helical cutter head uses 26 14mm 2-sided cutter heads. That is no more cutting area than the reversible knives. The rest of the units are similar. All have decent reviews. The unit with knife blades is $185 less. around $300 delivered, one of the least expensive available.

Can’t a long board be mounted as an auxiliary bed to let it process longer pieces without or with limited snipe?

View mbs's profile

mbs

1436 posts in 1574 days


#22 posted 562 days ago

There are a lot of options mentioned here. One that I did see is using a router followed by a lunch box planer.

The benefits are: Very small footprint and possibly the lowest possible cost (besides hand planing). You can joint any width you want but you’ll be limited by the planer width.

The downside is setup time and run time with the router.

How does it work? Picture your secured workpiece laying between two parallel, flat lines (boards, EMT conduit, iron..). Now, place your router in a home-made sled that slides back and forth between the parallel boards. And the sled can slide left and right on the boards too. Put a 1” cutter in the router and route the surface until it’s flat. Flip the routed surface over and run it through the planer. Flip it over again and clean up the routed surface.

When you’re all done you can hang your sled up on the wall and stand your conduit in the corner.

Recently I saw someone use the technique to make curved door panels. I learned how to did this when I flattened burl table tops. But, I had to do both sides with the router and hand sand the tops afterwards. I also used this techniques before I could afford jointers and planers. It’s very effective but not very fast compared to stand-alone equipment.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112018 posts in 2211 days


#23 posted 562 days ago

I’ve never looked Rikon jointers before I was really surprised when I looked at the 10” you posted an found it only Weighs 160 pounds an has a 40” cast aluminum table and only 1 1/2Hp. The reviews were good but most of the reviewers seemed as if they had never owned a jointer before not having a real comparison of other jointers .The good things I see about it is it’s 5year warranty an it’s 10” other than that it seems like toy compared to the Grizzly and others http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-x-72-Jointer-3-HP-w-Mobile-Base-Polar-Bear-Series-/G0656P
@ $975 including shipping and 3hp and cast iron 72”table,556 lbs an 4 blades instead of 3 with built in mobile base.
This is a 8” jointer instead of 10” but with a light weight like the 10” Rikon you would probably tip it over with a long heavy 8” board any how. Your concerned about your new jointer being mobile but there is such a thing as being to mobile .

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View mbs's profile

mbs

1436 posts in 1574 days


#24 posted 562 days ago

I haven’t used the Rikon Jointer. I did purchase their 18” bandsaw though. The motor died on the bandsaw after approx. 3 hours of use over a 2 year period. Their customer service was great because they sent me a new motor. After 4 years the tires on the wheels suffered extreme cracking. In comparison, I have a delta bandsaw that I’ve replaced the tires on once in 25 years. And I have a Laguna bandsaw that’s around 14 years old with the original tires and motor. Sometimes the lowest initial price isn’t really representative of the “cost of ownership” over the life of the tool.

I’m a big fan of buying high quality tools, second hand, for a fraction of the retail price. But, I’m in this hobby for the long haul and I expect most quality tools to last decades.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#25 posted 562 days ago

Hammer has aluminum extension for the tables. It is curious, say for Grizzly, that they put 72” tables on 8”, 10”, an 12” jointers but a 60” table on their $2000-$2300 12” combo unit. That is a 600 lb unit.

Has anyone extended the bed of their planer or built their own jigs to joint in the planer?

mbs, do you have a picture of that router jig? It looks very involved with the need for a level platform for a 2 dimensional slider that may be over 6’ or 8’ long in one dimension.

View Ken90712's profile

Ken90712

14878 posts in 1823 days


#26 posted 562 days ago

I Just got a 3 HP 8 inch and wonder why I waited so long…

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112018 posts in 2211 days


#27 posted 562 days ago

It’s not really curious that any combo jointer/planner unit has a a shorter table since it has to be flipped up to use the planner part of the combination . I understand folks wanting to save space in their shops but combination tools are many times over priced and inconvenient and can be a hassle to change set ups on.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View RVroman's profile

RVroman

163 posts in 658 days


#28 posted 562 days ago

“Has anyone extended the bed of their planer or built their own jigs to joint in the planer?”

Is this what you mean? This is not mine, but it is among the things I plan to do in the future.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/14085

-- Robert --- making toothpicks one 3x3x12 blank at a time!

View Loren's profile

Loren

7443 posts in 2282 days


#29 posted 562 days ago

I had a Robland XSD and I built an extension table
for the outfeed table in order to joint 8’ boards
for a run of room doors. Worked well. I used
a portable planer sometimes when I had the XSD
to avoid changing setups.

I’ll probably build an extension for the INCA
some time, but really a track saw work well
for straightening board edges well enough
and is less awkward than passing a long heavy
board over a jointer evenly.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#30 posted 562 days ago

Robert, yes, something like that. The tech at Steel City recommended that. As the author of the picture indicated, it eliminated his snipe.

Jim, technically there shouldn’t be a reason for making a longer jointer table flippable. They also short change the length of the planer bed.

Using your Grizzly reference I looked a little further. The first item is what size the jointer should be. Let’s use your 8” number. Grizzly’s smallest stationary planers are 15”, so I’ll use those measurements. For comparison, I’ll use their 12” jointer/planer. At these price points, I’ll also compare the prices with spiral cutter heads which Grizzly feels give significantly better surfaces.

The 8” x 72” is $1375 with shipping, or $1445 with a parallelogram bed. Both include a mobile base. Both are impressive. These are 3hp.

The 15” stationary planer weighs 600lb and has a mobile base. The cast iron bed with extensions is 42” long. With spiral cutter head the price is $1845. They have two feed speeds, allowing a slower 16 fpm for a smoother cut. These are 3hp.

That totals $3215 or $3290, about the same as the Jet 12” combo with spiral cutter head. Note the spiral cutter heads added $400 for the jointer and $600 for the planer, $1000 total. That makes the totals $2215 or $2290 with the parallelogram jointer with knives. Also note, a 12” parallelogram jointer with much nicer wheel adjustments is $2250, about $805 more or $4095. That unit has a 12” x 83” bed. No mobile base. 875 lb. Zero chance of ever fitting into my basement.

The Grizzly 12” jointer/planer is $2445 with the spiral head or $2145 with knives. First advantage: lower cost for the shared spiral head. The jointer table is 60” long. The planer bed is a short 23” and has no extensions. Not sure why they didn’t add extensions since it wouldn’t interfere with anything. A mobile base is a $100 option. This is 5hp.

If length of the table is more important than width, with knives, much better individual jointers and planers are available for the same cost. If a spiral cutter head is important, the combo unit has a significant price advantage.

If you can roll the units around, the individual units may not take up much more space. If you can’t or prefer not to roll them around the combo unit take less space. Note, the longer tables don’t take extra space because the machines need that space for the work pieces anyway.

The cost of a very nice 12” jointer is significant, but not earth shatteringly so, especially for a long term invest. If the shop has the space and are buying Grizzly units, the 12” parallelogram jointer could be attractive. Of course you could also go to a 20” planer for another

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a1Jim

112018 posts in 2211 days


#31 posted 562 days ago

David Isn’t shopping fun :)) I’m not impressed with jet tools in general anymore,IMO they they are not comparable to Grizzly. Over the years it’s seems Jet tools have declined in quality and at the same time Grizzly has improved their product line. I did opt for the 20” spiral head planner and I have not thought the in-feed and out-feed where undersized nor have I found them to produce any snipe problem. The 84” table on my 12” spiral head jointer makes longer stock much easier to handle. Good luck on your equipment gathering adventure,I hope what ever you end up with serves you well.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#32 posted 562 days ago

In this case I’ve pretty much decided to use a portable 13” planer with a bed extension and hand power planer to trim high spots in advance. The router sled in the picture was made for a specific 1/2 table sized board, it just doesn’t seem practical day to day.

All the reviews I’ve read greatly favor spiral head cutters. The Accu-Head used by Steel City had the lowest ratings in a 2010 Fine Woodworking test, but appears to be the only one in this price range. The question then is their 200H model for $630 (coarse thread posts with side crank with lock, stops to 1.75”) or 300H model for $485 (fine thread top handle, stops to 3/4”). Both use the same 2-sides HSS square heads vs. the 4-sided carbide heads on the bigger Grizzly and Jet units. If I had the space I’d probably do the 12” parallelogram jointer with the 15” stationary planer. A problem for future time.

I will probably make the bed out of MDF with a stop to prevent it from being pulled into the planer and some blocks with inserts, bolts, and jam nuts to level the ends. I’m guessing the bed needs more outfeed support since the operator will be providing some of the infeed support.

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DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#33 posted 561 days ago

I’m amazed how much this thread changed my view of planing and jointing. First, the performance difference for dedicated machines is much larger than I had thought. The huge rigid beds on both devices and the wider cut on the planer. That parallelogram beds are not significantly more expensive. That many of the units have mobile bases.

I did make a mistake. The 12” parallelogram jointer is Especially if stepping up to the $2250 12” parallelogram jointer with is $2950 with a spiral head, not $2250. However, dropping a board on that unit with its 83” bed or on the 8” model with its 72” bed ($!445) should be significantly different than the combo units.

Then there is all the discussion of face jointing techniques using a portable planer or router. The current issue of Fine Woodworking has an example of a router jig for jointing: http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop/tip/smoothing-the-top-blocks-on-cabriole-legs.aspx. It seems even simpler.

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mbs

1436 posts in 1574 days


#34 posted 561 days ago

That jig is the same concept that I was describing. I’ve done large slabs of wood and regular boards using that technique. It’s for those who have more time than space & money.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

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runswithscissors

909 posts in 659 days


#35 posted 561 days ago

The jig you show using the router as a jointer does work. I’ve done it. One thing I noticed is that it’s difficult to avoid ridges left by the sharp-cornered straight router bit. A way to avoid these is to use a “bowl cutting” bit, which has slightly rounded corners. By overlapping your passes, you should have a clean surface. It’s obviously not something you would resort to every day, but it may be your only recourse if you have material that exceeds the capacity of your equipment. And if you joint one side (of a big slab, for example), and then carefully level your guide rails, you can turn it over and thickness plane it. Of course you’d have to sand the heck out of it to make it perfect.

I may have said this before, but no matter how big a planer or jointer you have, eventually you’ll want to plane or joint something even bigger.

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DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#36 posted 561 days ago

A video of jointing with a router.He used wedges to hold the work piece in the jig.

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Matt Rogers

45 posts in 604 days


#37 posted 561 days ago

I too use this technique, but I use it for only my super large stuff. My router jig looks like the others, but it is 8’ long and built out of a 12” x 12” box of 3/4 ply for rigidity. I use it for flattening both sides of large slabs after drying and have successfully flattened pieces over 4’ wide and 12’ long. Once you are done with one side, you can get the other side parallel to the first by flipping the slab. You should do all of this on a flat reference surface such as a good flat workbench, or a concrete slab (maybe put a piece of ply down first so that you can screw the rails to the ply to prevent them from sliding about). When you flip the slab, the new flat surface matches you reference surface and you can then use the rails (parallel to each other and the surface below) to give you a matching parallel side on your slab.

One more thing, you can use the same technique to flatten your workbench. Clamp two straight rails onto the sides of your bench and use winding sticks or string to get them parallel and then run your router jig over the surface to take a thin layer off the top of the bench. I think that the Wood Whisperer used this technique to flatten the top of his Roubo Bench build.

There is a lot of sanding to do after using the router, but there would be regardless considering that even if you used handplanes, most of these good slabs are highly figured, meaning that handplanes and jointers would wither leave you with tearout or a very long and slow process to be careful planing in the correct direction each stroke. That plus I sometimes have to take up to 1/2”-3/4” of wood off a slab over 4’ of width or length to take out a twist or cup. Imagine a board that is that wide and multiply the defects in a small board to giant size. The pile of chips on the floor after one of these monsters is usually measured in inches deep and cleaned up with a shovel.

I would recommend a smaller jig to anyone that comes across random pieces of wood wider than their planer.

-- Matt Rogers, http://www.cleanairwoodworks.com

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DavidNJ

384 posts in 627 days


#38 posted 541 days ago

While I’m not getting anything now, I have learned to watch for sales. The Jet 12” combo jointer/planer is on sale now, various places. $1910 with knives, $2860 with spiral cutter. Free shipping. A Boyd Shelix is $1100 if you want to add it later. The Jet seems to be one of the better units, with the quickest conversion (matching the Hammer) and well thought out design (e.g., the planer height adjustment wheel is angled to the front).

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mbs

1436 posts in 1574 days


#39 posted 541 days ago

did you get the DC?

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

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