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My New Shop's Electrical System - What do you think?

by helluvawreck
posted 02-06-2013 06:05 PM


46 replies so far

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2950 posts in 943 days


#1 posted 02-06-2013 06:18 PM

I like having white walls in my shop, helps with lighting. As for having an electrician do the job, yes. However seeing you are exposing the wires, why not just install the outlets yourself and save a $$. In fact, I’d just have the electrician mount the box and hook it up. I’d do it all from there.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View grizzman's profile

grizzman

7011 posts in 1959 days


#2 posted 02-06-2013 06:20 PM

well Charles i think it sounds like a good plan, i like it for the same reasons you do, and im really excited to see this come about, when will this project start, and im sure you will do blogs of its progress…it makes me remember when i built my shop, it was one of the most exciting events in my life, as for the last 16 years, my shop has given so much joy…i cant wait to see you in your new shop making saw dust…im sure your going to get to the point where you start to make money from what you make in there…do you have any idea yet where your focus will be…cant wait to this this start…enjoy it..i sure did mine…grizz

-- GRIZZMAN ...[''''']

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#3 posted 02-06-2013 06:22 PM

Russell, the wires will not be exposed. The wires will be inside electrical conduit (EMT) that is mounted on the walls and ceiling. EMT is used inside most industrial plants and is perfectly safe. Yes, the white walls will brighten it up, lift your spirit, spread the light and even make the shop look bigger.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

View grizzman's profile

grizzman

7011 posts in 1959 days


#4 posted 02-06-2013 06:24 PM

charles its no big deal running your own wire and doing your boxes, you could save yourself a good chunk of change by doing it yourself…i did my own house, and ive never had a problem…but its your shop, so be happy with what you have..

-- GRIZZMAN ...[''''']

View stefang's profile

stefang

13050 posts in 1990 days


#5 posted 02-06-2013 06:26 PM

Hi Charles. Everybodys needs and preferences are different. Personally I don’t like having the wiring conduit exposed just for looks and future painting and upkeep, and it is a dust catcher. You could always make a mark on the ceiling or near the floor to indicate the presence of wiring. This will also allow you to have shelves and other storage pieces tight against the wall wherever you want. I guess any advantage always has some disadvantages. I installed 4 socket outlets in several places and even on the ceiling over my tablesaw and vacuum. this has worked out very well because I have an outlet available anywhere in the shop and I use all of them a lot too. That said, you have a lot of experience with working in a shop, so I say do what you think is best and what will work best for you.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#6 posted 02-06-2013 06:28 PM

Grizz, thanks for the kind words. We will move to the property on the 22nd of February and start the shop about then or a little before and I will do a blog about it. I hope that I can clear whatever Social Security will allow because I will have to supplement my SS somehow. I might as well be doing something that I enjoy.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#7 posted 02-06-2013 06:30 PM

Grizz, I’ve ran conduit and wiring ever since I was 20 years old. The insurance people are becoming very strict and I will not take chances with my insurance. Perhaps I will work with the electrician under his guidance. I’ve done that before as well.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2950 posts in 943 days


#8 posted 02-06-2013 06:33 PM

Charles, just remember to keep outlets at least 18” above the floor and run that EMT either low or high so you can mount shelving. If you plan to have a wood storage rack on your wall, don’t drywall that area, just plywood over the studs and make sure they are in good shape. In fact it’s a good idea to replace any studs that are not in good shape. Also it’s a good time to add studs and or bracing for future needs. One piece of advice, don’t over do the outlets, you’ll find a 20A retractable cord at Rockler that works great. I use it for machines on the other end of my shop where the garage doors are and if I need to work outside on a nice day. I like to keep as many plugs on the ceiling as possible so I can see the cords and not trip or get them tangled up.

By exposed, I mean not inside the wall.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#9 posted 02-06-2013 06:37 PM

Mike, I appreciate the advice and I understand your points and they are valid. However, the main advantage of EMT is that it is exposed and easily modified as needed yet safe and protects the wire.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2950 posts in 943 days


#10 posted 02-06-2013 06:40 PM

I think it’s a good idea for others to remember when building their shop either in an existing structure or a new dedicated structure that it’s a good idea to keep the wiring on the outside of the wall where you can see it.
Of course never hide a connection of any kind behind a wall without an inspection plate that is well marked. I will also mark the wall and the outlet with whatever AMP rating it is as well. Don’t want to run DC on a 15A breaker.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#11 posted 02-06-2013 06:45 PM

Thanks, Russell. All of the walls and ceiling will be plywood not any drywall at all. Plywood is good and tough and I can hang stuff where ever I want to with screws and nails. I will work with the electrician closely and will look for his guidance and forthought. I also will take into consideration any advice I get here on LJs and will appreciate it. I’m going to put time into planning my shop. I know that it is important. I will have only one chance to get it as close to being right as I can.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2950 posts in 943 days


#12 posted 02-06-2013 06:49 PM

Looking forward to seeing it completed and you in there.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

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patron

13034 posts in 1997 days


#13 posted 02-06-2013 07:11 PM

if you are doing concrete floor
you might consider having ‘canals’ in the floor
for all interior tool electric/air/vacuum
maybe with ply or steel sheet covers
(make a ledge to keep them flush)
that way you won’t have lines coming across the floor
or down from the ceiling
to keep from banging into them
or moving them to roll things around

all the services can be put where the tools will be
and the covers make it easier to add or change later

as far as paint goes
wal-mart has the cheapest
in off white or white semi or gloss
5 gallons for about $100
( the can pictured is just one gallon)
roll it on straight
and forget the primer

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View teejk's profile

teejk

1215 posts in 1341 days


#14 posted 02-06-2013 07:24 PM

Charles…EMT is an acceptable ground on its own so the $$$ you pay for the material gets offset somewhat by losing the ground wire, plus you can use single strand wires rather than Romex. I ran 3/4” all around my shop using 4” sq boxes…2 separate 120v circuits in each box plus wiring for 240v. I hated to cut the stuff because it leaves a burr that can cut your wire insulation as you pull it, so other than bends to turn a corner or sneak under a window, they are 10’ apart. I like the fact that the boxes are exposed so if I ever wanted to add to anything it would be pretty easy. And I think the exposed EMT looks kind of nice (2 man job though with 10’ sticks to keep it level for a professional look).

As for your walls, my experience is that drywall is cheaper up front but shops are shops…it doesn’t take long before you become a drywall patching expert (and with time you become a pro at patching drywall patches). Whatever you do, buy a few gallons of brilliant high gloss white paint before you hang anything on it. The difference in lighting is amazing.

View wiwildcat's profile

wiwildcat

53 posts in 618 days


#15 posted 02-06-2013 07:30 PM

Seems like those are good ideas. Get a good electrician and that conduit work will look nice in the shop, otherwise it might look like spaghetti on the walls. My preference is for counter top height receptacles all around the shop. Lots of dedicated circuit receptacle too. Remember to plan for stubbing a conduit up near any island workbenches or assembly tables for power to those too. Carefully planning so the conduit is installed neatly and will not interfere with wall cabinets, shelves, dust collection piping…

-- Wisconsin Wildcat

View b2rtch's profile

b2rtch

4330 posts in 1704 days


#16 posted 02-06-2013 07:31 PM

Except for framing and sheet-rock I built my 24×30x10 shop myself.
I believe that as long as your permits are in order the insurance has nothing to say about you doing your won electricity.
I did my own electricity, 200amp panel, and in fact second the the building itself this was the most expensive part of the building. I did not use conduit only Romex all the way round.

” All of the walls and ceiling will be plywood not any drywall at all” in Taylorsville Utah you cannot do that,this is against fire code. this is is huge fire hazard.
Sorry but I think that this is a very bad idea.

-- Bert

View helluvawreck's profile

helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#17 posted 02-06-2013 07:45 PM

teejk, the EMT does help in grounding the electrical system but you can’t do without the ground wire. All of the ends of the EMT are suppose to have the burrs removed before joining the EMT fittings. All of the neutral wires are suppose to be put in as needed as well. For all of these things I will be relying on a professional electrician. I’m determined that the whole job will be done strictly according to code. Thanks for your input.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14752 posts in 2332 days


#18 posted 02-06-2013 07:58 PM

Sounds good to me Charles. I know there are lots of DYIers who do pretty good on their own electrical, but I have seen too many that should be just torn out and redone!

I recommend stubbing up rigid conduit near your “tool islands”. EMT may be legal and PVC surely is, but I’d still use rigid through the slab.

Pulling a ground conductor is a great move. I have seen too many issues with conduit grounds in the last 45 years. The worst was a lose lock nut causing sparks in a gas station. There was a defective motor trying to start and the protective device was auto resetting. Every time it tried to start, there would be a shower of sparks from the bottom of the panel. Thankfully, they didn’t have any gas spills that day ;-))

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View GaryL's profile

GaryL

1077 posts in 1487 days


#19 posted 02-06-2013 08:03 PM

The only thing I can add is make sure to run bigger conduit for your main around the shop than what you think you’ll need. At least 1” and maybe even 1 1/4”. This will allow your electrician to pull additional circuits in the future if needed. You’ve run a big shop so you know the drill. You know what a bunch of 20 or 30 amp 220v runs can take up.
Don’t let your electrician talk you into conduit that is “good enough for now” then he’ll want to hit you again in the future to run more conduit because the existing is maxed out. Work in plenty of junction boxes to pull off of for your equipment as teejk said. But you’re right about the ground. EMT does not qualify as a proper ground even though it does need to grounded itself.
Have fun getting your new shop “off the ground”...

Edit..I see Topa is around…there’s the man to talk to…

-- Gary; Marysville, MI...Involve your children in your projects as much as possible, the return is priceless.

View b2rtch's profile

b2rtch

4330 posts in 1704 days


#20 posted 02-06-2013 08:06 PM

Charles, you write that you want to do everything by code and to not have problem with your insurance.
Before putting plywood every where on your walls,you better check your fire code and your insurance about what they think about your idea.
I bet you that they will not like it very much.

-- Bert

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14752 posts in 2332 days


#21 posted 02-06-2013 08:10 PM

Well, bigger isn’t necessarily better ;-(( When you start adding more circuits, you have to derate the amp rating of the wire. In most cases, you will end up running more conduits with few circuits in each as the most economical way to do it.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View JesseTutt's profile

JesseTutt

804 posts in 767 days


#22 posted 02-06-2013 08:12 PM

You might be able to work out a deal with the electrician that you run the emt and install the boxes and that he will then come in and run the wires and do the connections. (My grandfather was a electrical contractor in the 30s through 60s and he routinely hired unskilled labor to do the setup work – in this case the emt and boxes.)

I always suggest you consider running 10-3 with ground to each box. 10 gauge will handle up to 30 amps so your tools should never overheat the wire. 3 conductor plus ground allows you to switch any box from 120 volts to 220 volts without having to pull new wire. The incremental cost of the 10 gauge and 3 conductor (plus ground) will be offset the first time you need to replace a 20 amp 120 volt circuit with a 220 volt 30 amp circuit. Simply change out the receptacle and the breaker. National code will allow the red wire to be unused if it is taped at both ends.

You might consider splitting your electrical panels. have the 220 come into one panel and feed off that non-tool items (lights, alarms, frig., etc.) then go through a disconnect and feed a second panel with all of your tools on it. That way you can “pull” the disconnect when you leave the shop and know that no one can start any of the tools without engaging the disconnect. This could be a compelling argument against liability if some person were to get into your shop and hurt themselves.

-- Jesse, Saint Louis, Missouri

View Grumpymike's profile

Grumpymike

1085 posts in 971 days


#23 posted 02-06-2013 08:15 PM

Congrats on the new shop start there Charles, You have incorporated alot of ideas that i am using in my new shop that will be under construction in the second quarter of this year.
I found that plywood interrior walls was a great idea but costly, so I opted to use OSB sheathing on the inside too.
Then I will rent an airless spray rig and shoot it all white.
As for the wiring, NESC (National Electrical Safety Code) requires any exposed wiring that can be bumped or pierced to be in EMT so, you are on the right track there. Also there is a small metal plate that is placed on the wall stud that protects wires from being nailed by the sheetrockers, I will be using these on all wall wire runs … Then I will photo all of the walls for future reference as to where the wires, pipes, and air handling ducts are.
I will be placing two ducts in the slab for the DC, one for the table saw and one for an access point for other tools … with exterior cleanouts of course …
I’m really anxous to see your Blog and watch your new shop evolve … and a bit envyous that you are getting an earlier start.

-- Grumpy old guy, and lookin' good Doin' it. ... Surprise Az.

View Nate Meadows's profile

Nate Meadows

1077 posts in 863 days


#24 posted 02-06-2013 08:18 PM

Charles,

Its awesome you get to build your owe shop. Very exciting. I invested in every “shop” book I could find by Tautons or anyone else. It helps to see what others have done and what is and what isn’t working. I particularly liked Scott Landis’ book “The Workshop Book”, but Sandor Nagyszalanczy books have also been very valuable. Jim Tolpins bood the New Traditional Woodworker is also a very good book, full of some very helpful insights.

Before you pull the trigger, I really suggest investing in these materials. You will not regret it. You will be living with your shop for the rest of your life, theoretically. It is worth the time and effort.

In the end, it is about what makes you happy.

This is my opinion on the plywood and electrical coming from all my reading, research and just being me:).

The plywood will make your shop louder as the sound waves from the…shoot I have to run but I will finish up when I get back.

Very Respectfully,

Nate

-- "With a little bit of faith, and some imagination, you can build anything!" Nate

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14752 posts in 2332 days


#25 posted 02-06-2013 08:25 PM

I have seen a lot of “unskilled” conduit work. If it is on the surface to be seen for ever and ever, you might want to use a skilled person ;-)) Even doing underground, the unskilled often scoop it full of rocks. It gets spendy when you have to dig it up for a redo!

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#26 posted 02-06-2013 08:33 PM

Nate, I have been working all morning on my needed shop equipment and was using Amazon to list them because they let you set up a wishlist which is a handy way to list items and it just so happens that they sell most of what I’m planning on buying. I don’t necessarily plan on buying from them but I found it very handy to transfer the info from the wishlist to my excell spread sheets. About five such books have been listed in my equipment list because Amazon puts those books right in front of your face. Naturally the books will be on their way within 24 hours. Books are expensive but they have a lot of ideas and will undoubtedly give me some ideas. Thanks for the input.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#27 posted 02-06-2013 08:39 PM

Topa, I figure the best thing for me to do is to start building some of my cabinets and fixtures. I know how fast a good electrician can run conduit. I figure that if I don’t waste my time and try to think right I will have plenty to do. Besides, after forty years of industrial maintenance and engineering I’m pretty much an old worn out coot physically anyways. I can no longer do what I could 10 years ago. I also have countless hours of production work under my belt. Actually when I think on these things I also have to believe that in addition to being an old worn out coot physically I’m maybe an old worn out coot mentally as well by building this shop at this late stage in my life. :-|

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

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Shawn Masterson

1254 posts in 604 days


#28 posted 02-06-2013 09:35 PM

run romex in the wall. I have 2 gang boxes every 6’ all the way around my shop. with each wall on it’s own circuit.
also I have 2 220 recepts on each wall and 2 in the ceiling for drop down, as well as one @ the compressor and DC

no matter how you choose to do it there will always be a need for more as time passes.
I have not needed more yet, but I wish I had the phase converter mounted @ the panel and some 3 phase plugs around the shop.

good luck in your planning

ps: now is the perfect time to think about planning dust collection

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#29 posted 02-06-2013 09:58 PM

Dust collection!!! Oh my God!!!! What a whole ‘nother can of worms.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

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teejk

1215 posts in 1341 days


#30 posted 02-06-2013 11:26 PM

I need some clarification here…my understanding of current NEC is that EMT is an acceptable ground when installed properly (I think there are actually 13 types of acceptable grounds in there). It requires metal boxes and fittings and inside the boxes you need the green pigtail to the outlets/switches to ground them to the system.

I am speaking solely about “ground”. Neutral is a different matter. I built my shop a few years ago and maybe something changed but I can guarantee that a VOM touching a hot and the conduit will yield 120V on a 120V circuit.

But feel free to educate me and everybody else that might read this. And I do agree about larger EMT. I probably cheated and ran 7 12ga wires in 3/4”. Max was 6 I think but as long as they pulled, I figure the only harm will be with heat if they are all pulling at the same time. And a hint on the de-burring…1/4” drill bit on a cordless drill makes a great reamer.

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TheDane

3787 posts in 2319 days


#31 posted 02-06-2013 11:39 PM

Charles—When I built my new shop last Spring, we used drywall for the ceiling, and OSB for the walls (that meets code here). OSB is ugly stuff, but you’d be surprised how good it looks with 3 coats (1 primer and 2 enamel) of white paint. Every time you flip on the light switch you’ll be glad you took the time to paint it!

You may wind up interviewing more than one electrician. The contractor I worked for in my younger years wouldn’t finish a DIY job … he would pass on the work unless he/we did everything, including pulling the permits and ordering inspections.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

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CharlieW

26 posts in 607 days


#32 posted 02-07-2013 12:00 AM

I’m in the process of remodeling my 3 car garage into a shop and met with the electrician yesterday. We agreed on surface wiring in conduit as well. He suggested ceiling drops for the equipment not located on the walls but I decided against it. I suspect equipment will move and new will be added making the drop locations obsolete and in the way so I’ll run everything down the walls.

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#33 posted 02-07-2013 12:01 AM

teej. Around here we always put the safety ground wire in. Take a receptacle, the safety ground wire is what is connected to the the grounding prong on an outlet socket for example. Every machine should be grounded by the safety ground for example – either through the safety prong on a cord or directly by the ground wire. It is the green wire and goes right straight back to your breaker box even though it is connected to your conduit here and there. The neutral wire, when needed depending on the circuit, goes back to the switch box as well but they are kept separate and go back to to different bars in the breaker box even though the ground and neutral are eventually ended up in the same place, back to the source. There are other things that escape me but this is why we have professional electricians. I have watched the electricians in our plant many times. They never leave out the safety ground. Of course I could be wrong in all of this – but then I’m not a professional electrician. :)

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

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TopamaxSurvivor

14752 posts in 2332 days


#34 posted 02-07-2013 12:05 AM

EMT is a legal ground. That does not mean it is necessarily a good ground or it will be a ground for the life of the installation. BX cable, metal sheath wrapped around the conductors like the current MC cable but without the grounding conductor was declared illegal. Too many problems as it aged. A little corrosion in the metal sheath and it became a heater coil instead of a ground. I’m not saying that will happen to EMT, but there are a lot of other issues that develop over time.

I have seen installations where the EMT was pushed into the couplings, but they were never tightened. Lots of broken and connections pulled loose. It goes on and on. Every one makes mistakes and there are too many fly by nights that do not care about the integrity of their installations. I have been asked many times why I wound not bother pricing a new house. I will not do a half a$$ed job, cheapest is not best and not even safe IMO; most will not pay for a good residential job until they have been burned. Hopefully, not burned down.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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teejk

1215 posts in 1341 days


#35 posted 02-07-2013 12:37 AM

topa…I should have stressed the “properly installed” part…which includes tightening. I know about BX (that ground essentially comes down to that little screw) but I only use that stuff for say between a control and a boiler pump where I want it to look prettier than bare wire or romex and a ground wire is required anyway. That stuff is a PITA to deal with and I’m on blood thinners. Good quality EMT connectors fit tightly and have the set screw. Short of an earthquake, I can’t picture ever losing the ground. Btw Inspectors here will insist on grounding metal boxes even if the wire is Romex so you still have to buy/build the pigtails. From an appearance POV, surface mounted conduit/boxes looks rather “factory-like” (personal taste there) but does require a helper that can read a level.

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TopamaxSurvivor

14752 posts in 2332 days


#36 posted 02-07-2013 01:04 AM

The problem with BX was the ground current following the spiral rather than linearly down the run.

YMMV, but if you spend enough time working on electrical systems, you will find a lot of problems with the integrity of EMT runs used as the ground when properly installed. I just mentioned a few of the problems created by those who probably shouldn’t be allowed to attempt the work ;-)) The couplings and connectors get broken and pulled apart. I believer the code should be changed to require a grounding conductor be pulled in EMT.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1017 posts in 942 days


#37 posted 02-07-2013 01:17 AM

Nobody else thinks a 200amp service is overkill? Not sure how much equipment you have but if it’s just you, how many things will be running at once? I have 200amp to my HOUSE. I just ran a 60amp back to the shop. It will easily run all the lights, dust collection, whatever power tool I happen to be using, and either a heater or air conditioner (or a fan). The wire size that was pulled from the main to the sub-panel was pulled for 100amp, but I only asked for a 60amp panel. I have 4 separate circuits for plugs. One is just for the dust collector. The other 3 are scattered about wherever I needed them. :)

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Beginningwoodworker

13341 posts in 2329 days


#38 posted 02-07-2013 01:25 AM

Charles, I would be glad to see your shop build project.

-- CJIII Future cabinetmaker

View helluvawreck's profile

helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#39 posted 02-07-2013 01:35 AM

Charlie, The problem with my shop is that I plan on hopefully realizing a profit out of it. When you make a profit out of your shop you open up a whole new can of worms – even if you sell one item to a friend or neighbor you have crossed the line. I encourage all of you to go over your home insurance policies with a fine tooth comb and press your insurance agents with the tough questions as I have. I didn’t like their answers. I am setting up an LLC and will have a totally separate contractors policy on my shop building and equipment even though I will have a full basement that could have made a beautiful shop.

In my situation, they have an issue with mixing the two electrical systems together. Once you decide to try to make a profit out of your shop you are entering a very iffy situation. It might never matter unless somehow your equipment or shop causes your house to burn down. These are real issues and we need to be aware of them.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

View exelectrician's profile

exelectrician

1564 posts in 1083 days


#40 posted 02-07-2013 01:54 AM

Charles run a 2” X 3” duct all the way around the top edge of your wall.
Run 1/2” emt vertically down to all machines and outlets. Do NOT run condiut horizontally, it looks so messy.
Do not put more than two outlets on any breaker.
Allow for lots of circuits with low amps rather than few circuits with high amps.
Allot one breaker for each machine you own and run a minimum of #12 GA wire to any circuit, including lights! (this eliminates any confusion about wire size in that duct)
Do NOT try to save $$’s now in the beginning (you will always regret it)
Run # 10 GA wire 220 Volt plugs for future saws or welding.

-- Love thy neighbour as thyself

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Grandpa

3133 posts in 1331 days


#41 posted 02-07-2013 03:58 AM

Wreck, I don’t have a problem with hiring a licensed electrician or a 200 amp box. Go for it. Why would we want to fly a piper cub when there are 747’s out there. I like it. a 100 amp box would leave no room fopr expansion. Always want room for expansion. Sounds great. keep posting.

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1yeldud1

290 posts in 1698 days


#42 posted 02-07-2013 04:38 AM

this is very similar to the 28 ft by 28 ft garage next door that I purchased and re-did this past summer to use for a wood shop. I saved the concrete, studs, and rafters. I installed new siding, shingles, insulation, double pane windows, new walk thru door and 2 insulated garage doors with openers. I installed a 200 amp service using conduit and installed a h/e gas furnace for heat – I can turn on the furnace and in twenty minutes i go from 40 degrees to 70 degrees in the shop for just pennies per day. My utilities are seperate from my house – in case I sell my house I will still have a shop. I installed osb for interior siding. I used torx screws to install the osb and painted it white using exterior house paint. my only regret is that I wish i had used a nail gun to install the osb like my son in law did in his garage – looks lots better and was much quicker to install. I installed about 12 four foot flour. lights and put plug ins on the ceiling for these lights. I installed 4 can lights above the overhead doors (due to low ceiling clearance).

View grizzman's profile

grizzman

7011 posts in 1959 days


#43 posted 02-07-2013 04:51 AM

1yeldud1 i just went to your home page to see your shop, there are no pictures , so you know what that means, yep, it don’t exist…how about some pictures..its always nice to see others shops…

-- GRIZZMAN ...[''''']

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1yeldud1

290 posts in 1698 days


#44 posted 02-07-2013 10:41 AM

Grizzman – I’m sorry for no photos but I dont have access to a digital camera – I have “lots” of old 35mm photo equipment but no way to post them – im an old 56 year old who is electronically “Challenged” – lol

View Nate Meadows's profile

Nate Meadows

1077 posts in 863 days


#45 posted 02-07-2013 01:25 PM

Charles,

I am back, sorry for the delay! I am glad to hear you are getting the books, that is really cool! You really will not regret it at all! Seriously! Good and wise move.

So back to my thoughts, if it helps at all.

The plywood will make things louder in your shop as the sound waves will bounce around off of them. It is like a gym floor. You know that echo. It is just the physics of sound. It can be mediated however in several ways, first by adding soundboard directly under it, but this is a very pricy option! You could also get grooved paneling which will break up the sound waves as they hit the walls and thus diminish them on return.

The other consideration when talking about plywood on walls is noise transferring to the outside. When you use your machines the vibrations from will travel through the plywood, through the studs and on through to the exterior of the building. If you have close neighbors you may want consider doing some sound prevention. It can be as easy as cutting felt strips and laying them over the studs before you put the sheeting on, whether you chose plywood or sheetrock.

White is a very good choice for the walls!

Putting the electrical in the conduit outside the walls is really a matter of preference. Some will hate it, some won’t. No matter which way, you should always have more outlets than you think you need. A very wise woodworker in Virginia told me put one every 2 to 3 feet it a wall run, over a bench, even closer!, you my not need them all, but when you want them, they will be there. You will never have to hunt for a plug or get a nasty dangerous extension cord (no offense to those that use them, I use them, but the fact remains that unless we use the right one, they are the source of the heat up and burn out)

As far as 200amps goes. I say that is perfect! This will give you so many options. It is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I have a 5horse air compressor that needs 50amps to start, (At draw) Then the dust collector that I plan on putting it is a 10 horse, it is the same 50amps to start. (Thats 100amps) Just those two machines which can potentially run at anytime with any other machine in the shop would blow a 100amp panel running lights and whatever other small stuff. Go with the 200amp, you will not regret it. Then you can get the bigger machines or run more or….what ever:).

Final thoughts. This is your man cave but also your zen garden, your place of creativity and as you have mentioned, a place you hope to make some money. Take some serious time. You are already doing this I am preaching to the choir:). First, figure out what you have to have by code in your area. Then start piecing together the things you need followed by the things you like and want.

Very Respectfully,

Nate

-- "With a little bit of faith, and some imagination, you can build anything!" Nate

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helluvawreck

15798 posts in 1523 days


#46 posted 02-07-2013 06:19 PM

I don’t know where to begin. I wasn’t expecting anywhere near this many responses and you have overwhelmed me with good advice and sincere comments. I sincerely appreciate every single comment and it will take me a while to go through this thread. There is no doubt to me that once I go through this thread a couple of times and let it all sink in that I will end up having a better shop because of it.

Thanks to everyone of you for helping me.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

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