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Assault Weapons (not political)

by lumberjoe
posted 458 days ago


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96 replies

96 replies so far

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prattman

440 posts in 620 days


#1 posted 455 days ago

Sorry I missed this when you first posted it, I just read the whole thing and couldn’t agree more. In fact it is the same thing that I have been trying to tell people every chance I get only to be told that I’m one of those “gun nuts” that wants my guns more than the safety of children. Nothing could be further from the truth.

-- Everyone calls me Ed or Eddie , mom still calls me Edward if she is mad at me.

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lumberjoe

2798 posts in 751 days


#2 posted 455 days ago

I agree. I am not a gun owner and don’t ever plan to be, but I dislike fear mongering and I do agree with the second amendment. It’s important to know the facts. I think this slide show separates the facts from the “gun nut” excuse.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

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MarkwithaK

370 posts in 1681 days


#3 posted 455 days ago

I saw this a few days ago via one of my fellow enthusiasts. It’s amazing how certain sides of the media have used that phrase, “assault weapon”, to whip the uninformed into a frenzy. Some even claiming that the AR in AR-15 stands for Assault Rifle which of course is not true….but by branding it with that word it brings with it a violent imagery. It does get harder and harder to comment on this subject without it getting political because that is exactly what it has become.

-- If at first you don't succeed then maybe skydiving isn't for you.

View MNgary's profile

MNgary

231 posts in 920 days


#4 posted 454 days ago

In 2011 homicides by any type of rifle accounted for 4% of the gun-related deaths.

-- I dream of the world where a duck can cross the road and no one asks why.

View paratrooper34's profile

paratrooper34

760 posts in 1454 days


#5 posted 454 days ago

Removed by author – I will never write on any non woodworking threads again.

-- Mike

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MedicKen

1599 posts in 1965 days


#6 posted 454 days ago

The M4 when first introduced WAS a fully automatic machine gun. It DOES have a cyclic rate of about 900 rounds per minute on fully auto.

It is a gas-operated, magazine-fed, selective fire, shoulder-fired weapon with a telescoping stock. A shortened variant of the M16A2 rifle, the M4 has a 14.5 in (370 mm) barrel, allowing its user to better operate in close quarters combat. The M4 has selective fire options including semi-automatic and three-round burst (like the M16A2 and M16A4), while the M4A1 has the capability to fire fully automatic instead of three-round burst (like the M16A1 and M16A3).

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

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paratrooper34

760 posts in 1454 days


#7 posted 454 days ago

Removed by author – I will never write on any non woodworking threads again.

-- Mike

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lumberjoe

2798 posts in 751 days


#8 posted 454 days ago

You are right Mike. A little research turned up the M4A1 is full auto and issues to Special Forces (SEALS apparently)

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View Roger's profile

Roger

13062 posts in 1307 days


#9 posted 454 days ago

I became a gun entusiast after 911. I refuse to be “helpless” if I feel myself, and/or my family is being threatened. The ONLY way to PROTECT you, or your family from a bad guy with a gun, is a GOOD guy with a gun. End of story. That’s my opinion, and I’m stickin to it. Think how many lives could have been saved at Sandy Hook, if there would have been one, law abiding, gun carrying, citizen. It is very simple, common sense. I think it would be a good idea to have every school principal armed, and IF, any of the working teachers want to carry, oh yes, let them. THAT is one way we can help protect our innocent children.

-- Roger from KY. Work/Play/Travel Safe. Kentuk55@bellsouth.net

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paratrooper34

760 posts in 1454 days


#10 posted 454 days ago

Lumberjoe, I still like your thread though, it is interesting.

-- Mike

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Tedstor

1369 posts in 1135 days


#11 posted 454 days ago

I like my AR-15. After training with the M-16A2 for five years in the USMC, I became very comfortable with the platform. When I decided to buy a rifle for personal use, the AR-15 made the most sense.

View murch's profile

murch

1120 posts in 1127 days


#12 posted 453 days ago

Roger – you are assuming that all teachers are good guys. Are teachers just as likely to go nuts as people
in other professions, especially given the stress they are under.
Then what?

Although, kids might have more manners if they knew the teacher had a gun.

But then again, the older kids might bring in guns to defend themselves against a teacher that has become unhinged. Maybe they will be encouraged to bring guns to school by their parents to combat such a scenario.
Probably the best and only way to move forward is to arm every one, from kids starting school , up.

-- A family man has photos in his wallet where his money used to be.

View Parsimonia's profile

Parsimonia

51 posts in 454 days


#13 posted 453 days ago

I couldn’t open the link, but that won’t stop me from commenting. (ha!)
There doesn’t seem to be many adults in the media that understand firearms, but they are good at whipping up a frenzy about guns. They’re good at confusing automatic weapons and ‘scary’ rifles with handles, or saying a handgun is a ‘semi-automatic’ as if it was an Uzi machine gun. Remember the attempt to outlaw ‘Saturday Night Specials’, as if that would do anything.
I’m almost willing to concede some kind of licensing, but the paper that posted the addresses of owners cured me of that.
As with most political arguements, I don’t like to argue tit-for-tat anecdotal evidence, but instead I believe in a few fundamental truths:
An armed society is a polite society.
The debate should be about facts, not emotions.
The 2nd is to allow us to protect ourselves from the goverment.
I don’t need a gun – I just don’t want the criminals to know if I do or don’t have one.
</rant>

-- More Ideas than Time.

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muleskinner

631 posts in 939 days


#14 posted 453 days ago

Your first and third truth is in conflict with your second truth.

-- Visualize whirled peas

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6706 posts in 1417 days


#15 posted 453 days ago

Just remember that many of the shooters were STUDENTS. With that in mind, just think about the public reaction the first time a student (little angel?) is shot because they presented a threat?

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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Swyftfeet

169 posts in 674 days


#16 posted 453 days ago

I think folks that play barbie(dress up, folding stocks, flashlights, reflex dot sights, flash supressors ect.) with their weapons are a bit off center. I do play barbie with my table saw. But some kid cant pick up my table saw (G0690) and go kill another bunch of kids with it, so I feel better about my choices.

-- Brian

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Swyftfeet

169 posts in 674 days


#17 posted 453 days ago

Parsimonia The 2nd is to allow us to protect ourselves from the goverment.

Ask the loving folks from Ruby Ridge about that.

-- Brian

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prattman

440 posts in 620 days


#18 posted 453 days ago

I think that it is sad that people want their money protected by guards with guns, they want their congressional representatives protected by guards with guns, they want their president protected by guards with guns, they want their presidents children protected by guards with guns but theese same people don’t want their own children protected by guards with guns. What is a guard with a gun? Simply put it is someone that has a gun and is not afraid to train with it so that they can protect what is near and dear to them. A guard with a gun doesn’t wait for someone else to protect him or his children. If you don’t choose to be your own guard with a gun, then you have chosen to be a victim and you have chosen that fate for your children as well.

-- Everyone calls me Ed or Eddie , mom still calls me Edward if she is mad at me.

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

2271 posts in 2245 days


#19 posted 453 days ago

Great interview on CNN –
Andrea Mitchell talked about how we are restricted under the first ammendment – how the FTC regulates what she can say, and how you are not allowed to yell “FIRE” in a movie theatre.

The guest pointed out that you are not Gagged with Duct tape before entering the theatre – we instead punish those that break the law, we don’t gag people so they cannot speak.

Same goes for guns. Registering like a sex offender is not the answer to anything.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

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RockyTopScott

1074 posts in 1981 days


#20 posted 453 days ago

I can’t get the link to work.

-- “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.” ― Thomas Sowell

View Parsimonia's profile

Parsimonia

51 posts in 454 days


#21 posted 453 days ago

Brian,
“Ask the loving folks from Ruby Ridge about that.”

That’s the issue isn’t it. If you are going to do it, you better be ready for the consequences. You can never do it if you are disarmed. (I’m not advocating anything, to me it’s the point of the 2nd that matters).

-- More Ideas than Time.

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thedude50

3438 posts in 980 days


#22 posted 453 days ago

A real assault weapon fires fully automatic the rest are simply hunting rifles that look like assault rifles

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

2271 posts in 2245 days


#23 posted 453 days ago

Same manufacturer, fire rate etc.
But in New York- it is the magic of a Pistol grip that makes it “Evil”

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

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Parsimonia

51 posts in 454 days


#24 posted 453 days ago

...or black paint and a handle.

-- More Ideas than Time.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6706 posts in 1417 days


#25 posted 453 days ago

What happens when the first ‘student threat’ gets shot by an armed teacher or administrator?

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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TopamaxSurvivor

14412 posts in 2178 days


#26 posted 453 days ago

Can’t do that Mike, corporal punishment is banned and that would be above and beyond.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6706 posts in 1417 days


#27 posted 453 days ago

Not in Texas. I have paddled students myself, in the current decade here in Texas. Still, that does NOT answer the question.

What happens when the first student is shot by an armed teacher/administrator/guard?

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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TopamaxSurvivor

14412 posts in 2178 days


#28 posted 453 days ago

S* will hit the fan! Teacher probably in prison and in court for at least a decade with civil suits. Bleeding hearts will find excuses and probably make it legal for students to shoot teachers there after ;-(

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Don W's profile

Don W

13950 posts in 1070 days


#29 posted 453 days ago

and Cuomo will make another back room deal and lower the 7 shot magazine to 6 shots in NY. Because we know nobody would dare shot someone with an illegal size clip brought in from out of state.

-- There is nothing like the sound of a well tuned hand plane. - http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com (timetestedtools at hotmail dot c0m)

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TopamaxSurvivor

14412 posts in 2178 days


#30 posted 453 days ago

and no chance they will enforce existing laws, they need the issue to stir the pot ;-(

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

2271 posts in 2245 days


#31 posted 451 days ago

They were talking about Diane Feinsteins bill today…
As expected it bans a crapload of guns. Including all handguns with more than 10 rounds…. so no Glock 17’s etc.
In fact it is illegal to make a weopan that is CAPABLE of ACCEPTING a large magazine. So beyond the 10 round clip limit… if it is POSSIBLE to put a larger capacity magazine in it, the gun is illegal.

A puzzling thing I cannot grasp as being legal – - is how do you legally ban the “transfer” of guns. She is proposing that if you own say an AR-15… you may not …. EVER sell it or even give it away, except to a family member…Not sure if she just misspoke on that point or what, but i don’t see how you can prohibit people from selling their property.

Will it pass is another story – - but this is really onerous.

Ridiculously she described Assault rifles as “weapons designed to be shot from the hip and spray bullets”...What a maroon!

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

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TopamaxSurvivor

14412 posts in 2178 days


#32 posted 451 days ago

Thank God she didn’t call for a ban on the six shooters our Six Gun Heroes shot from the hip every week back in the 40s and 50s !

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Don W's profile

Don W

13950 posts in 1070 days


#33 posted 451 days ago

What I don’t understand, they don’t want to understand, they just want to pass useless laws. And people voting for them couldn’t care less either.

the headline will read, politician so and so passed umteen bills. Of course all of them are a waste of paper.

-- There is nothing like the sound of a well tuned hand plane. - http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com (timetestedtools at hotmail dot c0m)

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helluvawreck

14605 posts in 1369 days


#34 posted 451 days ago

Ho hum. The right to keep and bear arms is one of the Bill of Rights.

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6706 posts in 1417 days


#35 posted 451 days ago

Why the hell does this (ME) flaming Democrat find themselves supporting the Republican position on 2nd Amendment Rights? Geez… this shit is getting me worried.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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patcollins

937 posts in 1368 days


#36 posted 451 days ago

Mike

Neither party has our interests at heart. They are more like each other than they are like either of us. People have come to treating politicians like football teams where everything their guy says or does is good and everything the other guy says or does is bad.

View Don W's profile

Don W

13950 posts in 1070 days


#37 posted 451 days ago

And it was the Republicans that helped make this crooked deal in NY through. All politics and no thought or reason. I used to think democrats just wanted my money and my guns. Now its just become politicians just want my money and my guns

-- There is nothing like the sound of a well tuned hand plane. - http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com (timetestedtools at hotmail dot c0m)

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teejk

1187 posts in 1187 days


#38 posted 451 days ago

more “feel good” legislation on the way, after passing they’ll head to the finest retaurants in DC and pat themselves on the back (on our dime). In the meantime we put yet another bandaid on something that really requires x-rays and stitches.

View Jim Jakosh's profile

Jim Jakosh

10263 posts in 1608 days


#39 posted 451 days ago

I think all the politicians are barking up the wrong tree. People kill people, not the guns no matter what kind they are. TV and the movies are the most effective teachers. If we continue to show mostly sex and violence on TV and have killing in video games the norm, what do you expect the product to be in the kids exposed to this kind of education?????
We need to change the teaching and cut the profits from all those media people who we seem to overlook because they contribute so much to the candidates who make the laws.

And, the liberals who want to disarm Americans are using these shootings as a spring board for their platform .
Did you see Oboma bound up to the podium at Newtown when that should have been a somber occasion??
Don’t be fooled about what they are doing!!!!

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!!

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Jim Jakosh

10263 posts in 1608 days


#40 posted 451 days ago

Concerning assault weapons, I thought fully automatic guns were illegal to own in the USA, but I ran across this video and a whole lot more where they have machine gun shoots and there are a bunch of them out there owned by all kinds of people. They have fun with them and do not attack our citizens with them because they are sane people and respect others.

Take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f7wTMnWbqQ

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!!

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TopamaxSurvivor

14412 posts in 2178 days


#41 posted 451 days ago

Jim, You have to pay a tax and be registered with the Treasury Dept to own one. They are legal to own in WA state with proper federal paperwork, but illegal to fire in the state.

That would be a very spendy habit, feeding one of those hungry beast enough ammo to keep it happy ;-)

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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oldnovice

3264 posts in 1870 days


#42 posted 450 days ago

Jim is correct, people kill people … with guns or knives or bombs or whatever else. We don’t need laws to control weapons we need to educate, starting at an early age, how bad violence really is and how to avoid confrontations that may escalate.

My children were grew up with a father that smoked but the schools they went to had a strong no smoking education and none of my kids smoke or have ever tried it. In fact, my son-in-law was re-educated by my daughter to give up smoking. It does work!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

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HorizontalMike

6706 posts in 1417 days


#43 posted 450 days ago

It sure looks like the government want to use the “mentally ill” as the scapegoat in their efforts at national ”gun control”. Those with mental illness are more likely the VICTIM of violent crime, rather than the perpetrator of violent crime. Less than 5% of violent crime is committed by the mentally ill.

*Straight from the NIH:
  • ”...First, mental disorders are neither necessary, nor sufficient causes of violence. The major determinants of violence continue to be socio-demographic and socio-economic factors such as being young, male, and of lower socio-economic status.
  • Second, members of the public undoubtedly exaggerate both the strength of the relationship between major mental disorders and violence, as well as their own personal risk from the severely mentally ill. It is far more likely that people with a serious mental illness will be the victim of violence.
  • Third, substance abuse appears to be a major determinant of violence and this is true whether it occurs in the context of a concurrent mental illness or not. Those with substance disorders are major contributors to community violence, perhaps accounting for as much as a third of self-reported violent acts, and seven out of every 10 crimes of violence among mentally disordered offenders….”

And from another source [Medscape]:
It is essential to keep in mind that most people with mental illness are not violent.[2] A study of psychotic individuals found that those with a mental illness were responsible for only 5% of all violent crimes.[3]

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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Mark Davisson

450 posts in 1820 days


#44 posted 450 days ago

This is a thread about gun control.

-- I'm selfless because it feels so good!

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David Dean

452 posts in 1402 days


#45 posted 450 days ago

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6706 posts in 1417 days


#46 posted 450 days ago

Mark: ”...This is a thread about gun control….”

As it should be, and to discriminate on WHO you control access to guns is what it is all about. To target restrictions only to those who commit 5% of all violent crimes is misguided at best, and criminally negligent at worst. What about the OTHER 95% who commit violent crimes?... Just sayin’

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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EdwardR

66 posts in 757 days


#47 posted 450 days ago

A little history lesson with a bit of devil’s advocate.

After the war was over Washington abolished his army. This is what made him a great leader he could have kept his army and became king or what ever. When this happened Jefferson wrote the second amendment to arm a militia of the people since there was no defense at all. NOW when war became evident and armies were reestablished would Jefferson have abolished the second amendment. also with each state establishing a state militia ( National Guard ) do we need a civilian armed militia.

I support the right to bear arms beyond no doubt but i do feel we have gone over the line. The AR-15 by definition is not really a assault rifle but now we add a folding removable stock pistol grip and big clip. This makes the gun mimic a URBAN ASSULT RIFLE.

I must say i am tiered of my fellow gun advocates saying its not auto so its not a assault rifle. NO real assault trained man uses full auto in a attack situation. 3 shot bursts at most.

If you want to protect your family with a fire arm train them to use a ( i use this term loosely) a assault style shotgun ) 3 in. magnum 18in barrel folding stock and pistol grip and add a light for night time. 1500 dollar investment that will do the job better then any pistol or AR-15. You or any family member just has to point NOT AIM in a general direction and fire. If i was invading your house and your wife had a pistol i may take my chances she is to nervous to aim but the shotgun i am exiting quickly.

View David Dean's profile

David Dean

452 posts in 1402 days


#48 posted 450 days ago

I know that this is a thread about gun control but is it realy about gov control dont get me wrong I have done my duty for god and country and after laveing the army I done what my father said I got marred got a home and raised three beautiful girls and the bad part I dont own a gun I have seen death up close I just what know when the time come’s that I can steel have ????

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Dwain

323 posts in 2362 days


#49 posted 450 days ago

Mike,

I see your point, but if a student, generally a teen ager walked into a school, armed and looking to shoot, no common sense media outlet (please emphasize common sense) would present this as anything but a threat. Especially after what we have been through. The golden age of teenager innocence has long ago gone by the wayside.

I’m sorry, but that is just the case.

-- When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there is no end to what you CAN'T do

View MarkwithaK's profile

MarkwithaK

370 posts in 1681 days


#50 posted 450 days ago

While i won’t get into the use of the term “assault rifle” I do have to disagree with this comment:
”If you want to protect your family with a fire arm train them to use a ( i use this term loosely) a assault style shotgun ) 3 in. magnum 18in barrel folding stock and pistol grip and add a light for night time. 1500 dollar investment that will do the job better then any pistol or AR-15. You or any family member just has to point NOT AIM in a general direction and fire. If i was invading your house and your wife had a pistol i may take my chances she is to nervous to aim but the shotgun i am exiting quickly.”

Don’t get me wrong, they are both well suited to home defense but if given my choice the AR-15 would be my preferred firearm over a shotgun every day of the week. The allure of the shotgun is that it is a very easy weapon to use effectively which tends to lead people to not training with it sufficiently. It is NOT just a point and shoot type of weapon. You can miss with a shotgun and if the person operating it isn’t accustomed to it’s recoil his can severely effect their ability to re-acquire their target which can be detrimental if they a) miss with their initial shot or b) there are multiple targets.

Then there is the issue of cycling the weapon, that small amount of hesitation can lead to disaster. The AR-15 has, for me at least, a minimal amount of recoil and being semi-automatic I don’t have to readjust my site picture after cycling a fresh round. Factor in it’s accuracy and unlikelihood of causing collateral damage and the AR is better suited at QC defense. If anyone to break into my house I am in a position to defend it then i want to put rounds into them and not spend the next day patching numerous holes in my walls. In addition it may not be about ending the invaders life but simply putting them into a position where they are no longer a threat and a well placed round of two of 5.56 will accomplish this with no problem. If you are going to keep any firearm in your home for defense then you should train with it repeatedly….just simply having it is a false sense of security.

In regards to the intimidation factor, if someone breaks in and they are unarmed then ANY firearms is going to be a deterrent.

-- If at first you don't succeed then maybe skydiving isn't for you.

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