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View TheDane's profile

DIY Sharpening Rig

by TheDane
posted 588 days ago


34 replies so far

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6925 posts in 1546 days


#1 posted 588 days ago

Gerry,
I am thinking that your Oneway Vari-Grind can adjust for your scraper. But now owning that one, I am guessing. FWIW, I am still struggling with the sharpening the cutoff. I can turn it on its edge and sharpen, but that is not doing as well as I had hoped. May just need a straight platform, or one set at 85-89 degrees. this one should not be that difficult.

BTW, I pulled these numbers off of the belt: RP 0511 1203
The 1/2in wide belt seems to be about 10” long folded, may a bit less. I am going to hunt around locally for a spare.

Nice holders for your skews. I probably could have made mine a bit wider to match that angle. Hey, do let me know how that socket on a rod works out. that looks very adjustable, but I wonder about repeatability of settings… But then again, IMO, that repeatability fear factor thing is a bit over blown. While I know certain angle ranges are important to certain/select tools, I am of the opinion that marketers drive the fear factor up in order to create sales of “their” solutions. But then again, that is just my opinion.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View crank49's profile

crank49

3373 posts in 1603 days


#2 posted 588 days ago

Gerry, could you not just turn the motor around to reverse the diretion of sanding belt travel?

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6925 posts in 1546 days


#3 posted 588 days ago

Crank,
I also thought of doing that, but you need to extend all the wiring by 6-10in to accomplish it. Additionally the belt guard would have to be modified/drilled for that new orientation. IMO, at some point all the modifications will start to outweigh the benefits gained. Just buying a spare belt seems good enough for me. Others? Who knows…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#4 posted 588 days ago

Another possibility would be to install a metal splitter (with rounded/polished edges) in the belt guard where the belt rubs on itself.

HorizontalMike—There is a repeatability issue with the socket. So far, I have just set it by bringing the bevel on the tool up flush to the belt. The answer might be to make a set of setup jigs for common bevel angles similar to to the Raptor Setup Tools ( http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/5/-/21/95/-/5188/Raptor-Set-Up-Tool ).

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6925 posts in 1546 days


#5 posted 588 days ago

I don’t know about you, or anyone else for that matter, but playing around with sharpening settings and “repeatability” issues, I am of the opinion that ALL OF US can pretty much eyeball each and every setting sufficiently enough to get near-perfect repeatability on resharpening and honing of our turning tools. After all, just look at several others who support the grinder solution and even THEY set their jigs pretty much by eye-balling it before setting the jig.

All of this reminds of my astronomy hobby, where mass fear is publicly generated to never never touch your telescope lens to clean it. “All of you in the public are too inept” to be able to handle cleaning your “Own” lens of dust. Send your entire telescope back to the manufacturer (the entire telescope mind you) and let THEM clean it. Do this or the boogyman will visit you…ooo..

And then you could get me going on about “antique dealers” and “professional” restoration of an ‘antique.’ If someone else owns the antique in question, then YOU could be hired as the professional restorer. HOWEVER, if YOU own the antique in question then you must “hire” some OTHER professional restorer to restore YOUR piece.

I personally believe that nearly all of us, with a bit of training and/or experience can do better than the majority of those “middleman” dealers out there, who hire their restoration work out anyway. But then again, that is just MY opinion. Others mileage may vary… ;-)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#6 posted 588 days ago

One of the guys in our local turning club, a production turner who specializes in spindles and teaches turning at a local tech college, sharpens with a belt sander … no jigs, no pockets, no holders. He just eyeballs it. He’s been doing it that way for 50+ years.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#7 posted 587 days ago

I think I found the answer to the lack of a platform for grinding scrapers, etc.

I found an old tool platform (from Grizzly) in a box that hadn’t been unpacked after the move.

Works just fine on scrapers, parting tools, etc.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6925 posts in 1546 days


#8 posted 587 days ago

DAGNAMIT! I’m turnin’ GREEN just as I look at it! That is the cat’s meow!

That said, I am going to have to fabricate something along those lines, but out of wood. This would be great for plane irons, if you buy the 600 grit belts.

Still messin’ with my 1/2in arbor… Not able to improve on the slight wobble yet. Either looking for a better arbor, or just going to have to live with cotton buffing wheels, and they are not really that bad. They actually work well and are adaptable to the wobble. I am sure purists (Puritans?) will hate me for saying that but they do work surprisingly well.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3095 posts in 1307 days


#9 posted 587 days ago

I bought that same platform from Grizzly for $14 about a year ago. Might have been a special but I felt the need so I ordered it.

View ldl's profile

ldl

1135 posts in 997 days


#10 posted 587 days ago

Capt Eddie had a video on this rig and he attached a wooden plate to the OEM stop bracket. If memory serves me right he said come out from belt 4 1/2” and drill an indention for grinding jig. Don’t rem right off the bat which video it was right now or I would post it.

Sorry bout that. I posted this before I went back and read Horizionalmike’s review. If all goes well I am going to try to get to HF and buy this sander this weekend. I got one of the 20% coupons.

-- Dewayne in Bainbridge, Ga. - - No one can make you mad. Only you decide when you get mad - -

View ldl's profile

ldl

1135 posts in 997 days


#11 posted 586 days ago

I probably missed something in the reading but why do you want to reverse the belt direction?

-- Dewayne in Bainbridge, Ga. - - No one can make you mad. Only you decide when you get mad - -

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#12 posted 586 days ago

If the belt is moving toward the tool, you have a great probability of tearing the belt. By reversing it, the belt moves away from the tool so belts last longer.

The link to Eddie Castelin’s video on a similar rig: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaqIGVmVHY8

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View ldl's profile

ldl

1135 posts in 997 days


#13 posted 586 days ago

Gerry I thought that was your reason but I was thinking that with the grinder the wheel turns toward the tool. Are you thinking the flexibility of the sanding belt would cause this?

The reason I asked is I had watched the Capt Eddie’s video and he made no mention of reversing the belt. I was curious which way would werk best.

-- Dewayne in Bainbridge, Ga. - - No one can make you mad. Only you decide when you get mad - -

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

907 posts in 657 days


#14 posted 586 days ago

I have used a similar setup to sharpen planer and jointer knives. The knives are clamped in a jig made out of 1/4” aluminum plate, which then runs in a “trough” consisting of 1” angle iron welded to a bracket that bolts on in place of the sander’s fence.

In my experience, there is no need to reverse belt direction, as long as the handle of the tool, or blade holding jig, can’t kick out at the bottom. When you lean your tool into the belt, the existing bevel prevents digging in, assuming you’ve set up your jig correctly.

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#15 posted 586 days ago

Dewayne—Eddie is using a Delta sander … not sure what the inerds look like.

Without reversing the belt, a little too much pressure on the point of a skew and … RIP! Don’t ask me how I know.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View ksSlim's profile

ksSlim

977 posts in 1521 days


#16 posted 586 days ago

Might check the motor info, some have a wiring option to change direction of rotation.
Be sure to watch direction of rotation arrows on belts.
As tDane said, splice on wrong, belt in face and the need for new belt.

-- Sawdust and shavings are therapeutic

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6925 posts in 1546 days


#17 posted 585 days ago

Hey Gerry,
I had business with the local belt and pulley folks so I picked up a couple of ‘spare’ belts for this machine as well. The correct belt number is:

3L220 and they were just $6 and fairly common.

I also got my 1/2in arbor straightened out, or at least much closer than it was. I took a small piece of paper, folded it to about 4x thick and slipped it inside the side of the arbor that twisted when the set screw was tightened. That did the job. 8-)

RE: reversing the belt—the belt can sharpen in either direction, though reversing the belt adds to the safety factor AND allows for the proper use of the honing/buffing wheel. For me, I like it that way.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View ldl's profile

ldl

1135 posts in 997 days


#18 posted 585 days ago

Thanks for the input Gerry & Mike. I bought the HF yesterday and got it put together. I kinda just looked it over looking for any options I could come up with. In the next few days I will be getting mine set up. Hope to get with my brother and make a tool holder.

Gerry did you have any trouble with any gouges tearing the belt or did you try them?
As to the platform problem the OEM platform will go either way on the disc or the belt. That won’t werk for scrapers, etc?

I like all the input & opinions I can get on things I am werking on.

-- Dewayne in Bainbridge, Ga. - - No one can make you mad. Only you decide when you get mad - -

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#19 posted 585 days ago

Dewayne—Don’t know about gouges … my experience was with a skew. I do a good deal of spindle and pen turning and the skew is my weapon of first choice. When I first got my rig put together, before I reversed the belt, I set about sharpening an oval skew. That’s when I found out how easy you can destroy a belt. Just had to make me admit, didn’t you! ;>}

As for the tool platform provided with the sander, it is (IMHO) junk. I don’t think it is stable enough. By contrast, the Grizzly platform I used is pretty sturdy and does a fine job on scrapers.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View ldl's profile

ldl

1135 posts in 997 days


#20 posted 585 days ago

Gerry your secrete is safe with me. Haaa Haaa

Half to agree that the OEM platform is kinda shaky. Yours looks solid.

I got my brother to make my tool holder today. I added the extension to the wood stop for the tool holder. I ground a chisel but aren’t sure about it yet as I didn’t get a chance to try it. I didn’t reverse the belt as I wanted to see how it would do with gouges first. I don’t use the skew much so I may not reverse it.

-- Dewayne in Bainbridge, Ga. - - No one can make you mad. Only you decide when you get mad - -

View mafe's profile

mafe

9491 posts in 1721 days


#21 posted 583 days ago

Really cool rebuild.
Seems like a exelent sharpening station.
Best thoughts,
Mads

-- Mad F, the fanatical rhykenologist and vintage architect. Democraticwoodworking.

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#22 posted 583 days ago

So far, so good!

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View moke's profile

moke

476 posts in 1408 days


#23 posted 582 days ago

Gerry,
Very impressive indeed….looks like you have every thing covered and covered very well….

Two things, are you using the buffer as a hone? Try this as an alternative, if the rpm is 3450 or so, put together two pieces of 3/4 MDF with glue, turn them on your lathe to 4” round. Mount them up so the wheels are turning away from you…this is important. This makes an awesome hone, then just freehand hone your tools. (supported if possible by a platform) The old adage is sharpen once, hone twice. You’ll be surprised at how much sharper your tools are….I would call it a “noticeable difference”. I don’t really get what the buffer would do for you, maybe I am wrong, unless you use some sort of buffing compound, I can’t see where it would be aggressive enough to accomplish much….the MDF has just enough abrasive to be a tiny bit aggressive and cheap too!

I also think HMike is right, the great turners/sharpenrs use nothing but a platform. Not being one of those, I have tons of sharpening stuff! I think it takes a lot of practice!!
Just my .02

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#24 posted 582 days ago

moke—Yes, the buff wheel is used (with green compound) for honing. Given the 1-to-1 ratio of the pulleys and the fact it is being used on a sander, I suspect the motor is 1725rpm. I have a couple of MDF wheels that I made up for my WS3000 … I may give them a shot. The cotton buff wheel does a great job … tools come off with a mirror polish. My tools, especially the skews and bedan, have never been so sharp.

I think the method of sharpening is a horse apiece. I know three production turners (one of whom is a published author and instructor) ... one sharpens with nothing but a belt sander (no platforms or jigs), another uses a OneWay platform and a slow-speed grinder, and the other uses the standard Wolverine system. Each will tell you their way is the best way … for them.

So far, I am pretty happy with the results I am getting from the shop-built HF rig, but I’m not quite ready to sell my gtinder and Wolverine system yet, either.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6925 posts in 1546 days


#25 posted 582 days ago

Me too!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View moke's profile

moke

476 posts in 1408 days


#26 posted 580 days ago

Gerry,
It certainly looks like you everything covered…let us know about any mods you make and how this is working for you.

I agree, sharpening is a lot about what everyone feels comfortable with…me I am just uncomfortable with them all!!!!
Mike

View Kenbu's profile

Kenbu

17 posts in 512 days


#27 posted 512 days ago

Hi, new guy here. I’m working on making similar mods to my HF sander so it’s usable as a sharpening station. I like the idea of converting the sanding disk into a honing/buffing wheel. To those of you doing this: what did you buy or fabricate to attach the wheel to the motor shaft?

Thanks for the help.

Ken

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#28 posted 512 days ago

Ken … PM me with your email address and I’ll send you a PDF that details the conversion.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Knothead62's profile

Knothead62

2364 posts in 1593 days


#29 posted 331 days ago

A fellow in our turning club brought one to show-and-tell. It was the HF unit like the one shown. Had all the tracks and jigs for sharpening just about any turning tool. Got this on my to-do list.

View ldl's profile

ldl

1135 posts in 997 days


#30 posted 331 days ago

Gerry do you think a very thin piece of plastic placed between where the belt rubs would make it wear less?

-- Dewayne in Bainbridge, Ga. - - No one can make you mad. Only you decide when you get mad - -

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6925 posts in 1546 days


#31 posted 331 days ago

Dewayne,
If I understand you correctly, you really don’t have to worry about the belt wearing to rapidly on the metal frame. When I made mine, I put a 180g sanding belt on the machine and it is still there working like a champ. Shoot, even my twisted v8 drive belt is still holding up (even though I picked up a couple spares quite a while back. Jump on board and build one, you’ll love it!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3739 posts in 2295 days


#32 posted 331 days ago

Dewayne … Might work … maybe like a piece of UHMW.

I haven’t taken the cover off the belt drive since I built the rig last winter, so I don’t know how severe the wear on the belt is.

I had planned on doing the motor modification to reverse the direction, but life got in the way and I haven’t gotten around to that either. It works like a champ the way it is, so I’m not feeling any pressure to make the mods.

Full Disclosure: I am using the HF rig for scrapers, skews, and parting tools. Gouges I am doing on my Wolverine.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6925 posts in 1546 days


#33 posted 331 days ago

Like Gerry, all of the above, plus my chisels and yes, I have even sharpened a couple of hand plane blades with this as well and buffed them out with the buffing wheel. And I saved time doing it. 8^)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View ldl's profile

ldl

1135 posts in 997 days


#34 posted 331 days ago

Mike I was refering to the drive belt wearing where it touches being crossed. After further thinking it probably wouldn’t wear very fast cause of the length of time it is ran.

Gerry I bought a slow speed grinder and made the wolverine setup and grind my gouges. I use the HF sander to grind my scrapers and parting tools also. I like that setup best so far.

Saw a set up the other day where a fellow laid down the sander and built a sort of table over it and used it for a support.

-- Dewayne in Bainbridge, Ga. - - No one can make you mad. Only you decide when you get mad - -

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