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Craftsman table saw 113 series

by indychips
posted 01-11-2013 09:53 PM


17 replies so far

View JayT's profile

JayT

2634 posts in 964 days


#1 posted 01-11-2013 11:08 PM

Those can be a pretty good saw with some tweaking. They were built in the USA by Emerson for several brands and are solid saws. I have one and really don’t feel the need for anything bigger. It works great for 4/4 stock and the occasional softwood 2x, though it would be underpowered for someone using a lot of 6/4 & 8/4 hardwood.

That looks like an Align a Rip fence in the picture, and I have never used one of them. It is probably better than the base factory fence you see on a lot of this style Craftsman, but I don’t know how it compares to a T2 or similar upgrade. Hopefully someone with experience with the Align a Rip can chime in.

Price isn’t too bad. The 113’s of that vintage with the crappy factory fence pop up around here for 125-150 pretty regularly, with occasional ones in the $75 range. If the fence is a keeper, it would easily be worth the asking price.

-- "My concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right." Abraham Lincoln

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1507 posts in 1386 days


#2 posted 01-12-2013 12:22 AM

Normally, I’d say a later model 113 is worth no more than $125. That is because the stock fence sucks and needs to be immediately upgraded. However, the saw you reference looks to already have an upgraded fence. That said, $175 isn’t bad. Offer $150 and take it home. It should clean up nicely.
I have a “3 hp” 113 with a Delta T2 fence. I have no plans to replace it until I can store/afford a cabinet saw.

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

906 posts in 2366 days


#3 posted 01-12-2013 02:52 AM

I believe (but I haven’t been able to confirm this) that the Align-a-Rip fence was actually made by Ridgid for Sears. I upgraded to the Ridgid AC1036 on my Craftsman saw and it looks absolutely identical to the fence on the saw you referenced.

Very fine fence. I bought mine used 4 or 5 years ago, spent some time installing and tuning it to the saw and it has been stable ever since. See it here. I like this fence design better than the Beisemeyer or other T-square fence designs because it solidly locks the fence at both the front and back of the saw.

These old Sears are pretty darned good. They were made by Emerson. Before they went to granite tops, the best rated contractor’s saw being sold was the Ridgid 3650, 3660. They were made by (drum roll please…) Emerson. On the web you can find pictures of the bottom of the saw table and trunnions for both the old-style Craftsman saws and the newer, highly rated Ridgid 3650 or 3660 saws. Compare – THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE! The biggest difference between old Craftsman saws and the Ridgid 3650, 3660 saws is the fence. Ridgid just spent the time to design a better fence.

With a little TLC, that saw with that fence will serve you well.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5610 posts in 2129 days


#4 posted 01-12-2013 02:54 AM

That’d be a keeper at $175 if it runs well. You can always offer less, but I’d pay the $175 if need be. Align it, put a good blade on it, and make dust.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View toolie's profile

toolie

1774 posts in 1382 days


#5 posted 01-12-2013 04:56 AM

another positive experience with 113 saws, here. i have two. a c-man with a t2 fence and a ridgid 2412 with a 1036 fence (36” rip capacity). love them both and sold a unisaw i refurbished in order to keep the 113 style saws.

the linked CL saw is not 3hp, but probably more like 1 hp, maybe 1.5 but certainly no more than that. my c-man w/ a t2 is a 1hp that rip 8/4 hardwoods without incident. it needs a splitter and blade guard which are available from several sources. if you can find a herc-u-lift, it’ll bolt right to that base and it’s thenbest open stand mobile base ever made (currently out of production, but they pop up on CL/ ebay every so often). replacing those stamped wings with CI wings will help dampen vibration and smooth out the saw’s performance.

EEngineer…..sorry to disagree. IMHO, the best contractor saw ever built was the ridgid 3612, which was built by emerson for ridgid. the 3650/60 was, i believe, built under the ridgid brand by one world technologies, which also builds for ryobi and other brands.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View gawthrrw's profile

gawthrrw

191 posts in 1200 days


#6 posted 01-12-2013 05:48 AM

I had one of these saws for about four years until I upgraded. I ended up spending the money and put machined pulleys, link belt, and a T2 fence on it. all said and done I had about $300 in the saw. The only reason i got rid of it was because the threads on the arbor were smaller than the flat area where the blade sets and i couldnt use a dado blade and get a smooth bottom. I called Sears and they acknowledged that some of the 113’s had this issue but there was no replacement at that time. If you dont use a dado blade much than this saw would work great for you. My uncle has the align a rip fence in the picture and he still has to measure the front and back of the fence when he moves it. Spend the money and get the T2 Delta fence. My only regret buying the saw was that it took me two years to upgrade the fence!

P.S. If you can find the cast iron wings for it the saw will have more heft and not vibrate as much…

-- Rob, Dallas TX

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5610 posts in 2129 days


#7 posted 01-12-2013 01:06 PM

The 3650 was indeed made by TTI/Ryobi for Ridgid, which is owned by Emerson. The 3612 was the last of the US made Emerson contractor saws. Pretty much the same design through out….and all have plenty of parts that are interchangeable. Craftex still offers a version of the 3650 in Canada. AFAIK TTI still makes the R4510 and R4516 portable jobsite saws for Ridgid, and the nearly identical Cman 21828.

For those interested, the former Ridgid R4511 was made by (or in conjunction with) Steel City/Orion….same guts as the current Sears 22116. The current R4511 and 21833 are allegedly made by (or in conjunction with) Dayton….some confusion comes up because Sears uses Colovos as an importer for that model.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

906 posts in 2366 days


#8 posted 01-12-2013 01:15 PM

Well, toolie and knotscott, you might be right. If so, the design was a shameless copy of the Emerson design.

Here’s a picture from an online review of the TS3650:

and here’s a picture from the restore of a 1964 Sears 113 saw from OWWM:

Aside from minor casting differences, the trunnions are the same. Hell, the castings went through bigger changes than this during the 50-60 year history of Emerson making the saw for Sears.

I have heard of arbor/dado blade issues with the 113’s. Further proof of the similarity between the designs is that some reported fixing their arbor issues by ordering and installing arbors for the TS3650 in their 113 model table saws.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

View hhhopks's profile (online now)

hhhopks

565 posts in 1130 days


#9 posted 01-12-2013 01:36 PM

The only real compliant on my 113 TS is that you can’t lower the blade far down enough to my liking.
When I first got mine, the blade can only lowered such that the 10” blade is jut a hair below the table top.
I had to grind the curve slot (travel limit) for the lower end show that the blade will sit about 3/8” of an inch below the table. I think other 113 TS owner have simular problems. Maybe it is only a problem for certain 113 models.

After making that correction, I am happy with mine TS Oh, I also have the Align-a rip fence. It was a major improvement over my previous saw.

The only other thought is my TS table top height along with a mobile base. I thought the height is a bit to tall for me. I think I would like to have a lower base.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View History's profile

History

399 posts in 734 days


#10 posted 01-12-2013 01:40 PM

( Toolie : IMHO, the best contractor saw ever built was the ridgid 3612 ) I’d have to disagree, my vote goes to the Rockwell’s and Delta’s.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5610 posts in 2129 days


#11 posted 01-12-2013 01:52 PM

Which is best is subjective. I don’t pay too much attention to the logo generally….I usually just see pros and cons of the pieces parts. I never had any issues with my two saws that used connecting rods as an arbor carriage, but I’ve always thought the one piece cast arbor carriage is a more elegant design. I suspect the Rockwell and earlier Delta’s had stronger motors, and possibly more rugged components, but see the design advantage going to Emerson’s one piece system.


-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View toolie's profile

toolie

1774 posts in 1382 days


#12 posted 01-12-2013 03:14 PM

The current R4511 and 21833 are allegedly made by (or in conjunction with) Dayton….

pedantic little nit picker that i am, i believe that should be 4512, no?

indychips…........what did you decide to do about the saw you linked?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View toolie's profile

toolie

1774 posts in 1382 days


#13 posted 01-12-2013 03:18 PM

Maybe it is only a problem for certain 113 models.

i don’t think so. i have both an emerson built c-man and a ridgid. i’ve also disassembled two others for parts. all stored the blade only ~1/8” below the table top. i believe it’s designed that way.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5610 posts in 2129 days


#14 posted 01-12-2013 03:27 PM

”The current R4511 and 21833 are allegedly made by (or in conjunction with) Dayton….
pedantic little nit picker that i am, i believe that should be 4512, no?”

That’s no knitpick! Your’e correct. I screwed it up and can no longer edit. R4512 as the intended model number!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View indychips's profile

indychips

17 posts in 894 days


#15 posted 01-12-2013 10:57 PM

Thanks everyone for your responses. I went to look at the saw. Saw was in bad shape, the aluminum rail which holds the fence was cracked. This caused the fence to be loose. The whole table shook like crazy when you turned it on and off. I took a 6/4 piece of walnut with me to run through the saw. The blade came to a complete stop half way through the walnut. Obviously I had to pass on it

Good news is that I stopped to look at a used Ridgid. Perfect shape and bought it for $250. Here is a link to what I ended up buying.
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/tls/3539152041.html

Thanks again for everyones help.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5610 posts in 2129 days


#16 posted 01-12-2013 11:56 PM

Excellent! For a little extra money, you got two solid cast iron wings, and the last and most recent version of a well proven contractor saw.

My previous comment still holds true, “Align it, put a good blade on it, and make dust.”

Congrats.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View toolie's profile

toolie

1774 posts in 1382 days


#17 posted 01-13-2013 01:55 AM

that’ll turn out to be the best $75 you will ever spend. the saw you got appears to be much nicer than the c-man originally linked. the 3650/60 is one of the best contractor saws ever produced. better fence, herc-u-lift, CI wings, dual voltage 1.5hp motor and it looks to be complete regarding the splitter/blade guard and the miter gauge. check out the ridgid.com forum for numerous tip on set up and accessorizing that great saw.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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