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Problems with table saw tripping circuit

by gtbuzz
posted 01-09-2013 09:09 AM


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83 replies

83 replies so far

View ksSlim's profile

ksSlim

984 posts in 1541 days


#1 posted 01-09-2013 11:11 AM

Damage to motor or motor mount. Something is binding on start up.
Might check alingment of mounts.
Does blade run true to fence or miter slot, is blade perpendicular to table top?

-- Sawdust and shavings are therapeutic

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#2 posted 01-09-2013 01:17 PM

The first thing I did even before plugging it in was aligning the trunnion. Currently the blade is +/- 0.001 to the miter slot. The blade is also perpendicular to the table. When I try to spin the blade by hand (saw unplugged of course), it does feel smooth and I don’t hear any noises, of course who knows what happens when the motor actually powers up.

My immediate thought is like you said ksSlim, something has been knocked out of whack and there’s possibly something binding, however one thing I can’t figure out is if that’s the case, why does the breaker at the tool not trip before the breaker in the panel? Am I misunderstanding how that works?

View Ripthorn's profile

Ripthorn

757 posts in 1636 days


#3 posted 01-09-2013 01:23 PM

The same thing has recently started happening on my 25-30 yr old grizzly table saw, but only when it’s cold in my shop. Usually starts up the 2nd or 3rd time, unless it is really cold, then it won’t start till I warm the motor up with a space heater some. I have had a little luck in fiddling with the centrifugal switch, but it’s no silver bullet. My thought is that either the motor needs to be lubed or that it is somehow on it’s way out. In your case, since it’s new, I don’t know if that would be a possibility.

-- Brian T. - Exact science is not an exact science

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1599 posts in 2114 days


#4 posted 01-09-2013 01:30 PM

Are you sure the saw is wired correctly for 220? The Grizzly info states the saw comes pre-wired for 220V. I would double check the wiring. Also, is there a magnetic starter on the machine? Is the circuit a GFCI? Do you have access to a clamp on meter to see how many amps the saw is pulling at start up?

The “breaker” at the tool is a magnetic starter. If the machine is wired for 110V is will have heaters installed to protect it for 110, not 220V. The draw at 110V is 16amps, 8amps at 220. If you re-wired to 220 and did not change the heaters the mag starter will not trip out until it senses an overload exceeding 16 amps.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View JesseTutt's profile

JesseTutt

804 posts in 762 days


#5 posted 01-09-2013 01:46 PM

Call Grizzly tech support and ask them. I would try to get them to send you another motor.

Are you comfortable with electricity? If so, open up the receptacle and connect a volt meter between one of the hot lines (one should be black and other red) and the neutral (white) wire. What is the voltage? Now watch the meter and start the saw, does the voltage change (drop) as the saw attempts to start? Then try the other hot line.

A mechanical thing to try would be to remove the belt and see if it continues to happen. If it does try loosening all but one of the motor mount screws and see if it continues to happen.

-- Jesse, Saint Louis, Missouri

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gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#6 posted 01-09-2013 02:02 PM

For whatever it’s worth, here’s a picture of the box as it arrived to me. I think UPS routed it through Afghanistan!

I did rewire the saw for 110. Checked the plug, that looks right, the breaker at the swtich has been swapped with from the stock 10 amp to the Grizzly supplied 20 amp and the jumpers on the motor look correct (there’s really not much to it). Unfortunatly, I don’t have a clamp on meter so I don’t think I can measure the amp draw during startup. I’ve got a decent multimeter, honestly I don’t really know how to use it :)

@JesseTutt, when you say measure the voltage at the recepticle, are you talking about the voltage at the outlet (on the same circuit) or something on the machine? Also I think that’s a good idea on the belt. There’s no possibility of damaging the machine if I run it without the belt, right? I’ve read in a lot of places if I try to run my dust collector without the impeller, bad things can happen.

Gonna give Grizzly a call in a little bit to see what they say about all this.

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JesseTutt

804 posts in 762 days


#7 posted 01-09-2013 02:15 PM

There should be no problem running a motor without a belt attached. I used to test electrical circuits in machinery destined to go into factories without the motor connected to anything and ran them for hours as I debugged PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers).

I was thinking of the receptacle as where you plug the saw into the outlet on the wall. 120V is a three prong plug, 220V (single phase) would be a 4 prong plug (hot, hot, neutral, and ground) – although my Grizzle bandsaw called for a 3 prong 220V plug (hot, hot, and neutral). I was wondering if there was a massive voltage drop (from the 120V it should measure) as the motor starts. As the voltage drops the motor tries to compensate by drawing more current.

-- Jesse, Saint Louis, Missouri

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#8 posted 01-09-2013 02:53 PM

So I removed the belt, but the breaker in my panel still manages to tip. I got the saw to run once, and there’s no squealing sound like I first mentioned so I suppose that was just the belt slipping. Tried to measure voltage when I started it up, but when the panel breaker does trip, it does so immediately, so can’t really see any difference.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1565 days


#9 posted 01-09-2013 03:04 PM

Boy, asking Grizzly CS to swap out a motor sounds much easier than swapping out an entire TS. Detail all of your testing and then call CS. They may have additional testing suggestions, or they might immediately swap out the motor.

I think you have done well troubleshooting this issue. Sometimes I find it more advantageous to start with a detailed email of what the issue is and what you have done troubleshooting. Never hurts to include that damaged freight image just for effect. ;-)

THEN, if they haven’t called back in a couple days, you then call them and reference the email (think paper trail).

Good luck. I am convinced that Grizzly will make it right.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View blackcherry's profile

blackcherry

3161 posts in 2474 days


#10 posted 01-09-2013 03:05 PM

Check for correct wire size from outlet to main box and plug connections…just a thought…BC

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#11 posted 01-09-2013 03:42 PM

I spoke to tech support with Grizzly and they gave me a couple things to try. I’d really rather not send this saw back because as I imagine it would be a huge hassle. I’ve also already got the trunnions aligned to the miter slot and I know there’s no issue with this one when raising or lowering the blade. I really think the damage by UPS was superficial to the box, but who knows.

First, they suggested to direct wire the motor (ie bypass the switch) and use the breaker in the panel to start/stop the saw (does anyone have any suggestions on what type of wire to buy from Home Depot?). If it still trips after that, the guy seemed to think it may be the start capacitor or maybe something with the contact points in the motor itself. These are things that he said could easily be fixed or checked. As a last resort he did say we could also replace the motor if it came down to it (swapping out the saw was also an option down the road but I don’t really want to do that either).

I suppose it is a little bit of a pain to have to go through these troubleshooting steps, but one thing I’m very impressed about so far is how easy Grizzly has been to talk to. They seem to know what they’re talking about and they do really seem to care like they want to make it right. Assuming it is something minor that can be fixed, I can’t really blame Grizzly for that since who knows where the problem may have occured. As long as I have a working saw by the end of this I’m happy. I suppose I’ll ask them if they can give me anything for my inconvenience (maybe a zero clearance insert or something) – can’t possibly hurt.

Also, thanks so much to everyone that has replied to help out. This really is a great community. I’ll update as I get more info.

View woody123's profile

woody123

49 posts in 1958 days


#12 posted 01-09-2013 04:04 PM

One last thing,...............I didn’t notice anywhere whether you changed out the breaker switch in your box or not. Just a thought. I’ve had these go bad, and they will drive you crazy troubleshooting whatever it is your trying to run.

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#13 posted 01-09-2013 04:08 PM

Haven’t changed out the breaker in my box, although that has crossed my mind. I’ve had ones go bad before but in that case they would always stay tripped. I also tried two different circuits, same result. Both were installed at the same time so I suppose it is possible that they were from a bad batch, but it seems unlikely. It’ll be on my list of things to try though.

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1599 posts in 2114 days


#14 posted 01-09-2013 04:43 PM

Did you see this? From the Grizz site

NOTICE: 110V operation requires part #T23999 circuit breaker and wiring procedures that must be completed by an electrician or other qualified service personnel. See Owner’s Manual for details.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

10854 posts in 1342 days


#15 posted 01-10-2013 03:36 AM

MedicKen- I had the same thought but I think that is the “breaker at the switch” that he already changed out when he converted it to 110???

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

View thedude50's profile

thedude50

3515 posts in 1129 days


#16 posted 01-10-2013 04:02 AM

what brand of breaker are you using when the electrician was here he told me some brands trip below the rated value and he told me to buy only square d box and breakers.I am also curious if you have the access to the breaker and to the shop why did you decide not to do the 220 upgrade to the shop.

I also think Medic Ken is on the right track as his idea seems to make since too. Trouble shooting is so much fun.

I also think my saw is on a 30 amp circuit and the compressor is on a 40 they a re 220 though

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#17 posted 01-10-2013 04:06 AM

Yup I already installed the T23999 breaker at the switch.

I bought some 12/3 wire from Home Depot tonight, needed to make an extension cord anyway. The Grizzly tech I spoke to said I should bypass the switch by wiring the motor directly to this cord. The wires leading to the saw motor at the switch have the standard spade connectors on them. I don’t have anything to connect that to my new wire. I’d rather not cut those off because I don’t have new spades to put back on when I’m done. Anyone have any idea how I can tie this into my new wire? My first thought is just to tie it together temporarily with electrical tape, but I dunno, that seems way wrong.

@thedude50 – I’ve got SquareD breakers in my panel. The reason I don’t have a 220 is because when I first had these 2 20 amp circuits installed, there were 2 spots left and I didn’t see myself getting any 220 machines. I don’t plan on being in this little space much longer (only 1/2 of a 2 car garage) and I’m out of room for any more tools, so it didn’t seem worth the cost to me to have someone install a couple of tandem breakers to make room for a 220, especially when this saw will run on either. If I had to do it all over agian, yeah I probably would have done it differently, but what’s done is done.

View fuigb's profile

fuigb

184 posts in 1609 days


#18 posted 01-10-2013 04:17 AM

I wonder if your wire is sufficient for this circuit. You ‘re running on 12/3? Can you experimentally substitute 10?

Electricity really isn’t my area but I have the help of a guy who seems to have memorized the national code. Anyway, with my pal’s help I’m getting together the material and gearing up to add a subpanel in the garage to run 220 on 40 amp circuits. The plan is to run 6 from the main panel to the sub, and then 10 from the sub to the 220 outlets.

-- - Crud. Go tell your mother that I need a Band-aid.

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thedude50

3515 posts in 1129 days


#19 posted 01-10-2013 04:20 AM

I would do the change myself if the breaker panel is in the shop.

for your test a temp try wire nuts and then tape It will work fine my bet is on the start up cap ill bet it is pulling too many amps

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View jjmill1980's profile

jjmill1980

19 posts in 1625 days


#20 posted 01-10-2013 04:29 AM

Do you know how to check continuity with your meter? Check the motor to see if any of the legs are shorted together (e.g. for a 3-prong 110V plug check round prong to longest flat prong then round to shortest and flat to flat). If there is a short in the motor it is sometimes possible to find it this way. If something is shorted it will draw a lot of current and trip the breaker.

-- ... I'm lost and enjoying every minute of it

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#21 posted 01-10-2013 05:05 AM

@fuigb – the 12/3 is for the outlet to the saw itself. According to the chart above the wire at HD, it’s good for a 20 amp load. Not wanting to trust that alone, I checked other sources on the interwebs it seems fine too. As for whatever’s in the wall between the breaker and the outlet? Dunno, but I’m sure it meets whatever’s called for in the NEC – my electrician is a good guy.

@thedude50 – I thought long and hard about doing it myself. I’ve replaced an arc fault breaker in there that went bad before, so in theory I know my way around the panel, but that’s the problem – in theory. My background is in structural / mechanical engineering and there’s just some sort of mysticism about electricity that puts it out of my comfort zone. Spring, mass, damper? Makes sense. Capactitor, resistor, inductor? Que?

@jjmill1980 – Just checked continuity
At the wall plug, switch on: – Hot-neutral: yes – Hot-ground: no – Neutral-ground: no
At the wall plug, switch off: all no
At the motor, before the switch: – HN: yes – HG: no – NG: no
As I said earlier, I’m no electrician / electrical engineer, but it seems right to me.

View muleskinner's profile

muleskinner

674 posts in 1088 days


#22 posted 01-10-2013 05:35 AM

I think fuigb is on the right track. The starting current for a motor can be 3 to 5 times full load current. I don’t know what size motor your saw has but say it’s 2 hp. You could be pulling 50+ amps on start. Probably right on the edge for instantaneous tripping that 20 amp breaker. If it was me, I’d go with #10 wire and a 30 amp breaker.

-- Visualize whirled peas

View RonInOhio's profile

RonInOhio

720 posts in 1516 days


#23 posted 01-10-2013 05:36 AM

If you feel comfortable with it , check the capacitor.

1 Disconnect the power going to capacitor. Put on safety glasses and gloves.

2 Discharge the capacitor by placing a screwdriver on top of both terminals on the top of the capacitor. Hold the screwdriver by the insulated handle so you don’t shock yourself.

3 Disconnect the capacitor from the appliance by using a screwdriver and pliers.

4 Place the positive (red) lead of the voltmeter onto the negative terminal of the capacitor. Do the same with the negative lead. Look for the needle of the voltmeter to go all the way to the right. If the meter is digital, it should say “out of range” or something similar.

5 Replace the capacitor if you do not yield these results.

Having said that , a 30 amp circuit might be all you need. And double check that nothing else is running on that 20 amp circuit. 16 amps is pretty close to the rating of that breaker.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14742 posts in 2327 days


#24 posted 01-10-2013 06:24 AM

What are the FLA (full load amps) on the motor name plate? My guess is those Sq D breakers are the issue. They and Cutler Hammer are the only ones that actually trip when they are supposed to! The Griz web site says 2 hp, but we know what they do with HP these days;-( They don’t give the FLA.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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TopamaxSurvivor

14742 posts in 2327 days


#25 posted 01-10-2013 06:33 AM

BTW, if the motor is really 2 hp it will have a FLA of about 20 amps on 120 V. My motor calculator says it takes up to a 50 amp breaker to start it. You may have to run it on 240 V.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#26 posted 01-10-2013 03:17 PM

The saw is a “2HP” motor. In reality I suspect it’s probably closer to 1.75. Motor pull 16A at 110 and 8A at 220. I get that the startup draw can be significantly more, but from what I understand, isn’t that a very temporary draw that’s so short it’s not supposed to trip the breaker? Grizzly’s manual calls for this to be run on a 20A circuit regardless of it’s 110 or 220 – they also said it was okay when I talked to their tech support guys. I’ve also got a bandsaw and a dust collector with 1.5hp motors that don’t ever trip the circuit.

Who knows though. Maybe I’ll have to get my panel upgraded again, but right now I’m just going forward assuming it’s the saw. Hopefully I can get back into the shop to do more testing tonight.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14742 posts in 2327 days


#27 posted 01-10-2013 04:07 PM

AS long as you are doing the by pass wiring to check it out, if it still trips the breaker, try a 30 amp. It will probably solve your problem. Changing the panel won’t change anything. You will probably need to put in a 220 circuit or a 30 amp 120 to run it. Problem is probably either nuisance tripping because you are so close to the maximum for the 20 amp circuit or you are getting enough voltage drop from the incoming power to cause the tripping.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View MNgary's profile

MNgary

235 posts in 1069 days


#28 posted 01-10-2013 07:32 PM

You’ve tried the saw on two different circuits, Grizzly CS feels the saw should run on 20 amp 120 volt, I’d conclude it’s the saw. Personally, my testing sequence would be try a different cord to the outlet, bypass the switch, ask for a new motor.

-- I dream of the world where a duck can cross the road and no one asks why.

View RonInOhio's profile

RonInOhio

720 posts in 1516 days


#29 posted 01-10-2013 08:11 PM

Several factors could be causing the saw to draw a higher current than what the circuit is rated for . I won’t get into the science of motor lag in which the capacitor is designed to provide a surge of current to the motor. Nor will I get into working amps vs. start-up amps.

Just know that its easier to replace a capacitor which has lost its ability to maintain an electric field. A break down of the dielectrics in the cap will cause its opposition to current flow to decrease. Thus its resistance has decreased, (capacitive reactance) . By ohms law, I=E/R. So if the capacitive reactance decreases , then R in the formula decreases and I increases.

Of course the motor windings could also be at fault. But its much more likely its the capacitor. And that is a simple change out . Especially compared to unbolting the motor and sending that back. If you aren’t comfortable with checking the cap you might get Radio Shack to test it for you.

If you have a 30 amp circuit that would be ideally the best way to see if the circuit still trips. However, if the manual says its designed to run on a 20 amp circuit , then it should.

View wiwildcat's profile

wiwildcat

52 posts in 614 days


#30 posted 01-10-2013 08:32 PM

Do not switch out the breaker for 30amp unless calculations are done to verify the motor load and if the wiring on the load side of the breaker is sufficient. Are their any other loads fed from the breaker (lights, other appliances, etc)? I assume that the panel is located near the saw so voltage drop shouldn’t be an issue. I would suspect that the starter might be bad or the breaker in the panel is not correct for the load. The breaker trip analysis may be needed or a motor switch installed in the panel with a local fused disconnect switch at the equipment. Motor switch is a breaker that doesn’t trip, acts like a switch only, thus requiring a fused disconnect at the equipment with a dedicated receptacle to only be used by the saw. I would suggest maybe a licensed electrician is needed for this, someone with a meter and knowledge in sizing electrical motor circuits. Electricity is something that shouldn’t be played around with using trial and error.

-- Wisconsin Wildcat

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bbasiaga

112 posts in 647 days


#31 posted 01-10-2013 08:47 PM

If you coudl get a GFCI outlet, or GFCI breaker it would tell you if the circuit is tripping because something is going to ground (the GFCI would trip, the main breaker should not), or if the motor is overamping (mean breaker trips, GFCI does not).

If you check all your connections to ensure they aren’t exposed or loose enough that they vibrate and touch (if the hot touches the neutral, it would pop the breaker right away, or if the hot is touching the ground someplace it could do teh same and/or trip the GFCI), and everything is OK, then the problem is certainly in the motor.

-Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

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runswithscissors

939 posts in 677 days


#32 posted 01-10-2013 10:18 PM

If you still need spade connectors to do some of these tests, you should be able to get them at any hardwares store or automotive supply. They are very cheap. Be sure to get them with crimps that will accommodate 12 gauge wire.

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#33 posted 01-10-2013 11:41 PM

Got back into the shop and direct wired the motor to the outlet. Turns out I had a box full of spade connectrs from who knows when. I suppose that happens when you’re a pack rat :)

Flipped the breaker and the motor ran. Tried it again, the breaker tripped the 2nd time. And the 3rd. And the 4th. So it really seems like it’s not the switch and is likely the saw. Hopefully it’s just the start capacitor like others (as well as Grizzly tech support) have mentioned.

I’ll give them a call tomorrow morning and will update. Thanks again for all the help to this point.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14742 posts in 2327 days


#34 posted 01-10-2013 11:47 PM

Too bad you don’t have a clamp on ammeter. If you try a 30 amp breaker, it will probably run just fine. 20 amps is very marginal for that load regardless of Grizzly’s statement it should run on 20 amp 120 v circuit. Just use one side a your 30 2 pole to find out.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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thedude50

3515 posts in 1129 days


#35 posted 01-11-2013 01:42 AM

I used a 30 amp on my old saw and it didn’t have any trouble but when we bought this house the shop had 20 amp breakers and the damn thing popped all the time So I ran a home run with a 30 amp on it. Now I have all home runs with 20 and the new saw is 220 on a 30 and the compressor has a 40 all with correct wire so I have not had a trip since rewiring the shop Id buy the 7 dollar breaker and see how it works if it trips the 30 something is wrong with the saw.

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#36 posted 01-11-2013 02:28 AM

I think I may try the 30 amp route if Grizzly sends a new cap and it still causes the breaker to pop. I’m assuming there’s 12/2 in the wall already and I’d rather not have to fish it out and replace with 10/2 if I don’t have to.

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thedude50

3515 posts in 1129 days


#37 posted 01-11-2013 02:54 AM

I will bet the wire is fine they always use big wire

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14742 posts in 2327 days


#38 posted 01-11-2013 03:56 AM

I thought you got some wire to connect in the panel and bypass everything directly to the motor for your test?

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#39 posted 01-11-2013 04:20 PM

Talked to the Grizzly rep again and tested the capacitor on the phone with him. Sounds like it’s flaky at best, so they’ve got a new one on the way out to me. A little irritated that they’re only shipping UPS ground and I’d have to pay for overnight, but it’s not a big idea. When all is said and done, I’m going to try emailing their customer service to see if I can get a little compensation for all the hassle. Can’t hurt.

Also managed to talk to other G0715P owners that are running their saws on 110 and it sounds like I should have no problems with a 20 amp circuit. Really thinking its the saw right now.

View teejk's profile

teejk

1215 posts in 1336 days


#40 posted 01-11-2013 04:26 PM

“When all is said and done, I’m going to try emailing their customer service to see if I can get a little compensation for all the hassle”.

I can’t speak for Grizzly but in most cases I have prepared the e-mail then rather than send it to the company, send it directly to my deleted items folder. Same result but quicker resolution.

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3356 posts in 1465 days


#41 posted 01-11-2013 05:09 PM

Just because you change out a breaker to 20 amps, doesn’t mean the wire is sized for it.
Maybe an electrician on LJ’s can help us determine if this is a possible source of your problem.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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teejk

1215 posts in 1336 days


#42 posted 01-11-2013 08:10 PM

15a circuit 14ga wire, 20a circuit 12 ga wire, 30a circuit 10 ga wire. I think code says 1 size bigger wire is ok (e.g. 12ga ok on a 15a circuit)...

they make measuring gauges for wire size but if you have a stripping pliers you don’t need one. if you try to strip a piece of 14ga wire using the 12ga hole, you’ll be there all day. Put a 12ga wire in the 14ga hole and you’ll see the ridge (cut that off and start over).

View crashn's profile

crashn

518 posts in 1117 days


#43 posted 01-11-2013 08:38 PM

I got the same saw, runs fine on 20amp circuit, 240 volt. Did have it wired to 110 when I first got it, but it ran fine on a 20amp circuit also.

-- Crashn - the only thing I make more of than sawdust is mistakes

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14742 posts in 2327 days


#44 posted 01-11-2013 08:38 PM

crashn, What brand is your panel?

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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MrRon

2830 posts in 1895 days


#45 posted 01-11-2013 10:21 PM

#10-3 with ground.

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

357 posts in 1093 days


#46 posted 01-11-2013 10:43 PM

So, how’s this for weird…

After talkng with Grizzly tech support earlier today and trying to use a voltmeter to test the start cap, they determined it was faulty and are sending me me a new one. Since it won’t be here for a couple of days and with everything sprawled out right now, I needed the space in my shop so I can get to turning this weekend so I put everything back together and was going to just wheel it over to a corner until I thought to myself it’s not gonna hurt to try one last time.

1st time – breaker on the panel trips. 2nd time – maybe 10th time? Starts up like it’s supposed to, sounds good and runs fine. Switch it over to the other 20 amp circuit I’ve got in the area. Starts up fine. Do this another 10 times or so. Works fine.

I leave it sitting for about 10 minutes and try it agian. Trips the breaker the first time, but times 2..n work just fine again. Repeated that twice more (waiting 10 minutes) and again, same results. 1st time trips, later times don’t.

Perhaps there was a loose connection to the capacitor that was causing my breaker to trip constantly, but given the fact that if I wait the 10 minutes and it causes the breaker to trip, I’m really thinking there’s a faulty capacitor in there that, when fully discharged, isn’t working right and causing some sort of hugh spike in amp draw on first startup. That’s my uneducated guess at least – we’ll see if it makes any difference when I get the new start cap.

View RonInOhio's profile

RonInOhio

720 posts in 1516 days


#47 posted 01-11-2013 11:04 PM

The capacitor likely has some kind of intermitent short or leakage between its plates. Caps are similar to batteries. That would cause the impedance to vary (impedance is the resistance to current flow) from its designed value, to some lower value. Probably a much lower value.

And when the short or leak happens, the impedance lowers, that causes the current to increase. The current will exceed the 20 amps the saw was designed for and trip the breaker. Current = Voltage/Resistance.

Hope the new cap takes care of the problem. Sounds like your panel is fine.

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RonInOhio

720 posts in 1516 days


#48 posted 01-11-2013 11:08 PM

Still kind of sucks they are sending the part by ground freight.

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TopamaxSurvivor

14742 posts in 2327 days


#49 posted 01-12-2013 12:56 AM

That new pattern of failures sounds more like a faulty cap than a breaker tripping after a little heating up.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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teejk

1215 posts in 1336 days


#50 posted 01-12-2013 01:19 AM

Ron…what really sucks more is that he has to rebuild the motor on his own…I’ve never done that on any tool I’ve owned and not sure I would ever do it. I’m always afraid that goofing with OEM causes a problem elsewhere (and for the record I have never filed a warranty claim on any tool I have ever bought, nor have I ever filed a claim on my homeowner’s insurance).

His pic of the condition of the shipping container might explain it but getting $$$ from a freight company is like winning the lottery. As much as we salivate over the new toys, I think I would have rejected that delivery and let Grizzly and trucking company fight it out while I canceled the payment on my CC (never had to do that either but I can see where the consumer loses leverage if he/she accepts delivery.

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