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Sawstop - Congress passed legislation that all saws must have the technology in 2013

by mbs
posted 01-04-2013 06:07 AM


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123 replies

123 replies so far

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4506 posts in 1131 days


#1 posted 01-04-2013 06:26 AM

Is Festool still in talks about buy Sawstop?

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1328 days


#2 posted 01-04-2013 06:30 AM

I’ve never used one, but I want one badly.
The saw is extremely well built. The saw brake is icing on the cake.
Both of my hobbies I love involve intricate use of my fingers and hands (woodworking and video games), so a single accident at the tablesaw can make me a very miserable individual. Sawstop for me in early february if I can get things to go in my favor.

Edit to add: It shouldn’t matter what others say about the blade brake technology or the politics behind it. The simple fact is that it works, and does so reliably. If you’re the type of individual who realizes there’s always a chance for an accident even if you’ve never had one in 50 years, then why not have that extra insurance.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View live4ever's profile

live4ever

983 posts in 1761 days


#3 posted 01-04-2013 07:26 AM

Someone should write a play about this. Or a musical.

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

View Viktor's profile

Viktor

448 posts in 2169 days


#4 posted 01-04-2013 08:23 AM

SawStop is for wimps. I’ve been woodworking for 150 years, mostly free handing 1 meter diameter crooked oak logs through a 2 meter 30 hp saw and I’ve never been sawn in half and still have one hand.

live4ever, I think we could start with a painting – me with sword drawn and a fleeing sawstop.

View BurtC's profile

BurtC

91 posts in 1881 days


#5 posted 01-04-2013 08:32 AM

No worries…. I never believed Congress could of managed such a task…..

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5604 posts in 2126 days


#6 posted 01-04-2013 10:33 AM

Steve Ga$$ is an a$$

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

907 posts in 861 days


#7 posted 01-04-2013 03:02 PM

We can rotate our comments over and over again (just like we normally do)

I love this… ;^)

View bigkev's profile

bigkev

197 posts in 1379 days


#8 posted 01-04-2013 04:20 PM

I cut the same strips for backbrace lams you do on my $450 used Grizzly with no problem so I’ll stick to that for now and use the extra two grand for some quality walnut for a couple of chairs.

-- Kevin, South Carolina

View bigkev's profile

bigkev

197 posts in 1379 days


#9 posted 01-04-2013 04:22 PM

BTW, when I read the title of your post I was pissed, so yeah, you got me!

-- Kevin, South Carolina

View joeyinsouthaustin's profile

joeyinsouthaustin

1286 posts in 823 days


#10 posted 01-04-2013 04:26 PM

I am no longer posting in saw stop threads… but I do want to help you reach your goal of 1000 posts..
And the title gave me a chuckle :) So since I am not saying anything about the saw I rationalize that I still am not posting in saw stop threads.

-- Who is John Galt?

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#11 posted 01-04-2013 09:00 PM

I thought Ski was purchasing Sawstop. I’m sure it doesnt matter since skil and festool are basically the same tools, right?

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#12 posted 01-04-2013 09:05 PM

Victor, with only 150 years under your belt you’re still considered a rookie. Keep practicing and hopefully you’ll keep your good hand.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#13 posted 01-04-2013 09:07 PM

Bert – I recently read that Al Qaeda has decided to stopped terrorizing the US. They claim congress is doing a much better job than they can do.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View DKV's profile

DKV

3194 posts in 1255 days


#14 posted 01-04-2013 09:08 PM

Mbs, your tongue in cheek sarcasm (is there such a thing?) is fantastic. You get three stars for the day and a “good fella” award on my how to post thread. Funny thing is you are getting a lot of serious posters.

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#15 posted 01-04-2013 09:09 PM

Gotcha BigKev -

What blade are you using to cut your lams and is it a thin kerf or not?

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1505 posts in 1384 days


#16 posted 01-04-2013 09:10 PM

Every 10 min, someone loses a finger while using a tablesaw.
And every 5 min, someone drowns in a toilet.

And no, neither stat is accurate or credible. But SS uses one of them as a marketing slogan. Care to guess which??

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#17 posted 01-04-2013 09:12 PM

Joey – You’re more mature than I am but I’m hoping this will be my last SS thread too. We’ll see if my shrink and the prescription meds are enough ween me off the SS response addiction I have.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View live4ever's profile

live4ever

983 posts in 1761 days


#18 posted 01-04-2013 09:15 PM

Every 5 seconds, someone drowns in a toilet. So make them a canoe, using your new Sawstop!

???

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#19 posted 01-04-2013 09:19 PM

DKV – see my last response. it has to be a sick addiction that drives my desire to respond to SS threads because I truly don’t care what saw people buy or like.

I don’t know what the passionate people did to satisfy their addiction to respond before the internet was available. Picketing? Random post cards? Maybe that’s how telemarketing was started!

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1505 posts in 1384 days


#20 posted 01-04-2013 09:20 PM

LOL.

View brtech's profile

brtech

714 posts in 1673 days


#21 posted 01-04-2013 10:34 PM

I did the math. I believe the number is 4000 amputations per year.
If you use a 24 hour per day calculation, that’s an amputation every 131 minutes (every two hours or so).
If you use an 8 hour per day calculation, that’s an amputation every 43 minutes, assuming 365 days per year

I believe the CDC uses 35,000 “serious” reported injuries, and of course the non reported ones make that go a lot higher.

That’s one every 35 minutes in a 24 hour day and one every 5 minutes in an 8 hour day

So, they are probably exaggerating.

But is an amputation EVERY 2 HOURS, EVERY DAY, 24 HOURS A DAY good enough for you to acknowledge that we have a serious problem?

And your answer is “be careful”?

Really? You think that those injuries are all stupid people? All of them?

We know different. Sure, there are lots of boneheaded moves that cause an amputation, but a great many are just normal carelessness from normally careful people. “Be careful” doesn’t cut it, not by a lot.

The tools are inherently dangerous, and can be made much, much more safer. Period.

You don’t like the SS tactic? Fine – come up with a better way, but FIX the problem, don’t wish it away.

I am a VERY satisfied SS PCS owner, with a wife that really, really wanted me to get that saw.

But remember what all of us tell you: first it’s a great saw. Then it has this safety feature we appreciate.
And it costs the same as a similar saw, which many of us think is not as good. So the feature didn’t cost us.

Look at the intrinsic cost of the SS mechanism. If they were making it at the volume of the jobsite saws, what do you think it would add? Looks to me like in the neighborhood of $100. The cartridge RETAILS for $70. The electronics in the saw is maybe another $20. You need the pivoting arbor mechanism. What would that be as an incremental cost? $20?

View RonInOhio's profile

RonInOhio

720 posts in 1615 days


#22 posted 01-04-2013 10:42 PM

I wonder how many SawStop owners have actually tried out the blade brake by putting their hand
in there purposely. You just know there have been a few.

View joeyinsouthaustin's profile

joeyinsouthaustin

1286 posts in 823 days


#23 posted 01-04-2013 10:47 PM

MBS It is good you are getting help… unfortunately the other thread is beatin’ yo pants off, so I am posting again to help out.

-- Who is John Galt?

View bbc557ci's profile

bbc557ci

548 posts in 825 days


#24 posted 01-04-2013 10:53 PM

Don’t laugh too hard for too long. It would not surprise me at all if congress did pass such a law (if any of the idiots actually know what a table saw is). It’s their job to protect us against ourselves, right??

-- Bill, central NY...no where near the "big apple"

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#25 posted 01-04-2013 11:01 PM

I’m not voluntarily sticking my hand in the saw. Having said that, I haven’t heard of anyone losing a finger on a SS either.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4506 posts in 1131 days


#26 posted 01-04-2013 11:04 PM

I read on the internet that a kitten dies everytime a sawstop misfires.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

3587 posts in 2711 days


#27 posted 01-04-2013 11:05 PM

Musical?
OK! Here goes…..
LAH LA, LAH LA, LH LA.
Jokin’ aside….
Great saw, very expensive, what do I do with a very well tuned and maintained TS in the shop, oh well…...
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#28 posted 01-04-2013 11:14 PM

Rick, if you read it on the internet then it must be true!

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View aaroncgi's profile

aaroncgi

33 posts in 727 days


#29 posted 01-04-2013 11:16 PM

4000 amputations per year honestly doesn’t sound like a lot to me. How many millions, or tens of millions, of table saw users are there in the USA? If it’s only four million, then your odds of being amputated (all else equal), is only 1 in 1000 per year. Right? But maybe I’m overestimating the amount of table saw users, I don’t know.

Of those 4000 amputations, how many saws had the blade guard installed at the time of the incident? I’d venture a guess that it’s not very many at all.

And of those 4000 amputations, how many were the result of a kickback that pulled the user’s hands back over the blade? That shouldn’t happen with a riving knife installed. How many saws had riving knives installed at the time of the incident?

I’m not saying table saws aren’t dangerous, because they obviously can be. What I am saying is that there a lot of safety devices available, many even standard these days, on any saw you can buy. Even expensive aftermarket devices, such as the GRR-Ripper, are far less expensive than upgrading to the cheapest Sawstop – assuming one is on a contractor saw budget. Sawstop’s base pricing implies to me that they don’t care about your common woodworker who can’t afford to plunk down $1600+ on a table saw. There’s no way you can convince me that their additional costs for the contractor model genuinely are three times higher than a comparable saw from another manufacturer. I feel they’re simply charging what they can, because there are no current competitors. The technology is obviously worthwhile, but needs to be priced realistically, otherwise it will remain the purview of the big spenders. If that’s all Sawstop wants, and they just want to make the most money per unit as possible, that’s their prerogative. But if they genuinely want to keep as many woodworkers safe from amputation as possible, I think they need to look at much lower price points.

Do you think the first cars which had seat belts, or the first cars with air bags, would have sold at all, if they cost three times as much as the vehicles without? It seems absurd that the little brake ($70 retail?), and the minor electronics inside a Sawstop together cost twice as much as the entire rest of the saw.

-- Aaron

View DKV's profile

DKV

3194 posts in 1255 days


#30 posted 01-04-2013 11:42 PM

Mbs, I agree with Rick. The internet has more truth than say Fox, MSNBC, CNN, networks, etc. Afterall, my bible is Wikipedia. Have never found a mistake in “the wiki”. If it’s in “the wiki” then it’s true. No question about it… If wikipedia says He visited Missouri then it’s true.

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

View thedude50's profile

thedude50

3532 posts in 1229 days


#31 posted 01-04-2013 11:56 PM

since I have only read the first few posts breaking your how to post rules I will chime in . when safe saws are mandated by the government that will not be done in congress rather it will be done by the cpsa a bunch of bureaucrats mostly doo gooder Liberals. However I am now for this legislation and I want all saws made after 2015 to be safe saws this gives the other manufactures plenty of time to develop their own safety conscious saws. I want woodworking to be a safe profession and a safe hobby. As a trauma Nurse I am tired of seeing Saw accidents that change lives when this can be done in a cost effective manner . One only need compare a PCS to a powermatic and the new UniSaw to see that this is affordable because of the three the saw stop sells for the lowest price and is the only safe saw.

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View thedude50's profile

thedude50

3532 posts in 1229 days


#32 posted 01-05-2013 12:02 AM

By estimates of woodworkers magazines there are less than 1 million woodworkers in the usa today. Also most saw accidents are not in home workshops but rather on jobsites with over 75 % of saw accidents happening on Jobsite and skill saws rather than in cabinet shops or woodworking shops. However you chances are closer to 1 in 100 to have a saw incident. As tom showed in his kick back video which was not filmed on a saw stop even a planed kickback could have taken his fingers this is not a game this is a safety issue.

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View toidiem's profile

toidiem

23 posts in 720 days


#33 posted 01-05-2013 12:04 AM

Aaron, Aaron, Aaron…..... You forget that the Power Tool Institute (PTI) has stated that table saws will significantly increase in cost if this technology is mandated. I don’t know about you, but I can think of no other industry consortium that is as neutral and unbiased as the PTI. Besides, what reason would they have to overstate such a claim?

Like all industry consortiums, their first priority is protecting the consumer’s wallet, not to mention our safety. The automobile and tobacco industries are shining examples of unbiased and safety conscious professionals that would never mislead the public for their own self-interest.

And unlike SawStop’s fear tactics, those who oppose this technology have not and would never think of instilling fear into the woodworking community, like predicting the extinction of the table saw, or the government taking our table saws away from us, or the obvious slippery slope that will be the demise of woodworking forever. That would just be silly because no woodworker would fall for such fear mongering, let alone participate in it.

You may disagree, but I’m putting my faith and trust in industry hands because they’ve proven over and over again that the interest and safety of consumers is their paramount concern. Steve Gass, on the other hand, is just a money grubbing capitalist. Jus’ sayin’...

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#34 posted 01-05-2013 12:04 AM

aaroncgi – Great job! Get it all out of your system on this thread. We’ll apply your comments to the outrageous cost issue.

Now we’re ready for someone to talk about the override switch if you’re cutting wet wood or metal.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#35 posted 01-05-2013 12:10 AM

Nice counter, Toidiem

Where is our override comment? I’ll stir the pot a bit. The saw shouldn’t be equipped with an override!!

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View thedude50's profile

thedude50

3532 posts in 1229 days


#36 posted 01-05-2013 04:35 AM

it has to because of pressure treated wood read the book before you post

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2098 posts in 939 days


#37 posted 01-05-2013 04:58 AM

Any truth to the rumour that Steve Gass also owns several of the companies that make TS blades ?

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View DKV's profile

DKV

3194 posts in 1255 days


#38 posted 01-05-2013 05:02 AM

LanceDude, you are now on official probation for short, abrupt and rude posting. The post in question is #37. Remember, as the elected Posting Dude I have the authority to do this. Watch yourself…

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2492 posts in 1842 days


#39 posted 01-05-2013 05:41 AM

BOOO Sawstop. YAY technology!!

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View redryder's profile

redryder

2233 posts in 1853 days


#40 posted 01-05-2013 11:30 AM

I would never buy the number one hot dog saving machine in the world.

California’s Prop 65 will tell you that using it May Cause Cancer.

I don’t want cancer. Do you want cancer?? Well do ya….....................

-- mike...............

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6968 posts in 1665 days


#41 posted 01-05-2013 12:43 PM

I really really think that the Gunnerment schood pass uh law mandating JawStop technology on all LJ blogs ‘n threads about tablesaws.

But then again some dude would surely come along and accuse this of bein’ uh Lib’ral Conspirassee aimed at putting Proctologists out of business by limiting folks ability to keep talking out of their sphincters…

;-)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View ChuckV's profile

ChuckV

2485 posts in 2278 days


#42 posted 01-05-2013 01:31 PM

I admit that I have not read all the previous replies. I apologize if this aspect has already been covered.

According to the Wordsmith Anagram Server, there are no one-word anagrams of “sawstop”. There are 72 total anagrams, all containing two words. This has to be significant. Here are a few of the highlights:
spat sow
swap sot
paw toss (I like the visual of the saw tossing an appendage)

There are only four anagrams for “delta”, none of which are any fun. The only interesting thing here is that there is a single word anagram, “dealt”.

Now on to “powermatic”. There are 1981 anagrams! Again, all are multiple words. I did a very quick scan and these caught my eye:
crap we omit
crap emit ow
crap meow it
a cow permit
carpet i mow
taco we prim
tram cow pie
crow meat pi
...

Based on this analysis, the clear choice is to get a Powermatic.

-- “While the world with closed eyes sleeps, The sky knows and weeps - steel rain. ” ― Nathan Bell

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#43 posted 01-05-2013 02:36 PM

Chuck- I’m happy to see that you’ve researched the topic thoroughly. You’ve found the finest single piece of scientific data that I’ve seen in all the posts I’ve read. I’m selling my Felder, Delta Unisaw and Sawstop and getting a PM 66! Great work!

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View ChuckV's profile

ChuckV

2485 posts in 2278 days


#44 posted 01-05-2013 02:52 PM

mbs,

That you for the kind words. Perhaps we should now consider all sawstop discussions complete and forever closed.

Enjoy your new crow meat pi!

-- “While the world with closed eyes sleeps, The sky knows and weeps - steel rain. ” ― Nathan Bell

View History's profile

History

399 posts in 732 days


#45 posted 01-05-2013 03:15 PM

Not another SawStop thread. The subject was old before, now it’s getting sickening.

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

907 posts in 861 days


#46 posted 01-08-2013 02:40 AM

“Like all industry consortiums, their first priority is protecting the consumer’s wallet, not to mention our safety. The automobile and tobacco industries are shining examples of unbiased and safety conscious professionals that would never mislead the public for their own self-interest.”

Outstanding! You should write for the “The Onion” or “The Colbert Report”...

Thanks for the laughs!

View DKV's profile

DKV

3194 posts in 1255 days


#47 posted 01-08-2013 02:43 AM

I take offense sir..The Colbert Report puts out solid, no nonsense news and reporting. The Onion is a close second.

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

View tyvekboy's profile

tyvekboy

677 posts in 1764 days


#48 posted 01-08-2013 02:52 AM

The sawstop is a great hi-tech safety innovation. However, just think if this concept was applied to an automobile and everytime you had to stop to avoid injuring someone you would have to replace all four wheels before continuing your trip! What a concept!

-- Tyvekboy -- Marietta, GA

View mbs's profile

mbs

1500 posts in 1691 days


#49 posted 01-08-2013 03:10 AM

the automobile industry does have a solution. For example, the infinity m37 has collision avoidance technology where the car will apply the brakes to keep it from approaching the object in front of it too fast. I’ve driven the car and I don’t like it but it is effective.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

1004 posts in 1616 days


#50 posted 01-08-2013 03:34 AM

while there may only be four million woodworkers in the us you dont have to be a woodworker to own a tablesaw I venture that far more construction workers operate tablesaws than oodwokers.

how can anyone possibly believe that benchtop saw stops would ever be $100 when the contractor model is $1500 and a comparable non SS contractor is about $700?

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