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View Milo's profile

Building the new shop

by Milo
posted 567 days ago


22 replies so far

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

1465 posts in 831 days


#1 posted 567 days ago

I don’t see the problem extending the house/garage panel to the new shed. Lay down three #6 direct bury electrical cables (aluminum is cheaper) and dig to the required depth. A short distance is easy with a spade if you’re not going amongst trees. Use a stick of 2” plastic electrical conduit as a riser at each end to the panels. Check your codes and call for buried treasure markers. This would provide you with a 60 amp panel in the shed, plenty for your work. It will be 240 V, and will support an air compressor, your Unisaw, and with a couple more breakers for lights and outlets you’ll be well set. You don’t need a meter for that.

In our area you can buy a 20×40 steel building erected for about $4000. Check out overstocks, closeouts, etc. You’ll still have to buy the crete, and if you do spend the money, put Pex tubing down for future floor heat. It adds great resale value even if you never hook it up. The tubing is relatively cheap.
Good luck!
DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com

View joeyinsouthaustin's profile

joeyinsouthaustin

1211 posts in 669 days


#2 posted 567 days ago

IMO you won’t be happy stepping down the saw. I have had to work down like this, and was annoyed with it, and doing a lot of the same kind of work. Find a way to step up the power :) In my last shop, with a wood floor, almost exactly like what you are saying, I had to double up joists, and even add a couple of piers under my heavier tools. So think ahead. good luck.

-- Who is John Galt?

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

111999 posts in 2174 days


#3 posted 567 days ago

I agree with Dan’s approach but I would suggest getting a permit for it or including it in your shops permit. Something I have found is running the dust collection and or some of you electrical and air under the floor,this makes it a lot less trouble than going over head or having to step over it all the time,I would at least consider it for you table saw.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View crank49's profile (online now)

crank49

3336 posts in 1568 days


#4 posted 567 days ago

I agree with all above suggestions, AND in response to the OP comment that running 220 volt over 40 ft seeming excessive; Why? It’s twice as good as running 110 volts the same distance. The higher the voltage, the less the amp load. I have a 60 amp 240 volt circuit from my breaker panel that runs 60 ft to the garage to run my welder. Been working just fine since 1976.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View joeyinsouthaustin's profile

joeyinsouthaustin

1211 posts in 669 days


#5 posted 567 days ago

+1 on the DC under the floor. It shortens the runs as well, improving performance.

-- Who is John Galt?

View Milo's profile

Milo

849 posts in 1916 days


#6 posted 567 days ago

Awesome suggestion guys. Dan, I don’t ENTIRELY understand everything you said, but then again, electrical is my weakest area, and I WILL get help. I am just glad I get the positive feedback.

Jim, the DC idea is great. Shouldn’t be hard since I’ll off the ground.

Guys, forgot to add, I am considering a shed kit, primarily for time and other reasons. I know kits are usually frowned on, They seem to get decent reviews. This is what I am considering getting. I’ll need to add my own floor. 12×20 is the max area I have available, and unfortunalty that is pushing it.

http://www.shedsforlessdirect.com/best-barns-denver-12x20-wood-storage-shed-building-p-483.html

I’ll be wiring it and insulating , plus I am going to put in a roll up garage door in it.

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View derosa's profile

derosa

1532 posts in 1433 days


#7 posted 567 days ago

Just point out that it suggests that it doesn’t include shingles as well at that price. You might want to look up a similar plan and see if you can’t get all the materials at a building supply auction or off craigslist for less since it is nothing more then 2×4s and wall covering. Might also be able to just buy all the same materials at the same price from HD or lowes but go for 10’ walls to get a better height.
For the foundation you could also look at having someone with a post hole digger come out and make a series of posts and drop in some locust posts with cement around them if they’re available around you. Here it would be very cheap to do that vs. any kind of full concrete floor

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

111999 posts in 2174 days


#8 posted 567 days ago

Milo
I would also consider putting your DC and compressor outside in a separate little dog house, this will save a lot of floor space and keep it quieter and safer inside your shop. Rather than a kit you might consider building your self,I would guess the material will cost $800-$1200 less than that package. Another way to save is to pay a framer to frame it and you finish the rest your self. Even if you have to pay a roofer you could save a lot and or have a larger shop.
Since I’m a contractor I would bet you could negotiate with a contractor or builder to get a good deal especially this time of year.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View crank49's profile (online now)

crank49

3336 posts in 1568 days


#9 posted 567 days ago

I think you will be sorry if you don’t figure a way to get more height.
I know you said you are limited to 12×20 for area, but adding height will be very valuable, and cost effective.
If you just have to limit it to the shed kit, then can you put three rows of blocks around the base to gain a couple of feet?
Of course the door will have to be custom for this, but you said you would put in a roll up garage door anyway.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View Milo's profile

Milo

849 posts in 1916 days


#10 posted 567 days ago

Jim, I have been going back and forth on that very issue. I’d probably appreciate the build more, and I MAY be able to get my old cabinetry instructor (who you actually remind me of ;) to help me with the build.

Derosa, what are locust posts? Are they like railroad ties?

Crank49, I found that the gamble roof design allows for that extra head room your talking about, plus allows for two small l ofta on the ends. Also, the 12 ft width is already pushing pas the 10 ft I should be staying to. Unfortunetly.

Thanks all!

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View helluvawreck's profile

helluvawreck

15404 posts in 1464 days


#11 posted 567 days ago

You really need a small breaker panel in your shop. Ask your electrician. Why not just have a good sturdy wood floor in your shop?

helluvawreck aka Charles
http://woodworkingexpo.wordpress.com

-- If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away. Henry David Thoreau

View Milo's profile

Milo

849 posts in 1916 days


#12 posted 565 days ago

Ok, new plan. Surprise! Looks like the Mrs. Isn’t totally against the idea of a shop in the garage. Major pluses are of course concrete floor, electricity, and storage from way back when I put cabinets in. I could then build a much smaller shed in the back at my leisure, put in a dehumidifier and heater and store the more manageable stuff out there.

One thing I need advice on. I’d LOVE to build some dividers to portion off the shop from the washing machine and fridge. Can anyone suggest and easy way to do this without going the whole framing route? I really don’t wan to drill the floor, but I can access the attic to use the joists.

Any thoughts from you experts? Image a 2 car garage section of about a 2/3 square for the shop, and the rest a big “L” for the back and side for other stuff.

Thanks!!

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View derosa's profile

derosa

1532 posts in 1433 days


#13 posted 565 days ago

Around here a lot of fence posts are black locust, you can get them quite wide and a proper length for cheap, cheaper then pressure treated but they’re far stronger and easily as rot resistant. For things like sheds they can be used as foundation posts so that you don’t need a full foundation, you just level all the tops and build on top. Doesn’t matter a lot though, congrats on getting the garage.

If it was me I’d toss up two partition walls that bolt together tightly where they meet and tightly where they connect to the existing walls; wouldn’t bother with connecting to the floor or ceiling unless I was going to run electrical through them but then you may need a permit. Simple 2×4 construction with some sheetrock slapped on the wife’s side to keep her happier. 3 day piece at most, first day walls, sheetrock and mud. Second day sand and remud. Day three sand and paint, for me try not to wander off distracted while waiting for the paint to dry to put on the second and third coats. Finished.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

View RonInOhio's profile

RonInOhio

720 posts in 1461 days


#14 posted 565 days ago

Maybe the zoning in your area dictates it. But I didn’t think you needed tiedowns for a shed of that size. Even if its built on piers.

View crank49's profile (online now)

crank49

3336 posts in 1568 days


#15 posted 565 days ago

Milo, I am not sure I understand your reluctance to drill the floor and why not go the “framing route”, but I think a framed wall is the best way to partition an area off. The outside of this wall, the side in the shop, if covered with OSB or plywood can be a great place to hang clamps or tools or what ever.

I have my partition walls in the basement shop anchored to the floor and loosely, with thin lauan plywood, attached to the ceiling, but I guess one could do it the other way and attach to the ceiling and just sit on or float just above the floor.

Or, frame up the walls and just stick them to the floor with construction adhesive.

On a side note: If there is a dryer in there and it is vented outside, which it should be, it will suck dust into the laundry room from the shop if you make dust while it is running.

PPS: If there is a dryer in there you know, at least, that you have a source for 220 volt power. Unless it’s a gas dryer.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View Milo's profile

Milo

849 posts in 1916 days


#16 posted 565 days ago

Crank49, I agree with you. I’m going to turn the inside walls into all KINDS of storage for the lighter stuff.

I have everything I need to “plug and play” my tablesaw. There’s a place in the breaker box to stick my 22o break I pulled from the old breaker box.

Thanks for the heads up on the dryer. I’ll want to make sure I’m not competeing with it in regards to dust, that’s for sure.

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View Dan Krager's profile

Dan Krager

1465 posts in 831 days


#17 posted 565 days ago

Hey, that’s a brilliant idea, using a dryer for a dust collector. Never would have thought of that by myself! You’ve got an interesting project going here Milo. Thanks for posting and good luck! Anxious to see the finished result.
DanK

-- Dan Krager, Olney IL http://www.kragerwoodworking.weebly.com

View teejk's profile

teejk

1206 posts in 1282 days


#18 posted 565 days ago

although you are a ways off yet from storage solutions, check out the french cleat system from Family HandyMan a few months ago. I only did a scaled down version for primarily cord storage but I’d take this over pegboard any day. The hangers can be positioned anywhere you want them.

View Milo's profile

Milo

849 posts in 1916 days


#19 posted 564 days ago

Eh, Dan, I don’t want to come home and find the tools out in the RAIN, so I think I’ll avid that fer now, ok? ;)

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View FeralVermonter's profile

FeralVermonter

100 posts in 568 days


#20 posted 554 days ago

Seems like for a partition you could go a lighter route, make yourself a nice folding screen… Used to work an auction: they weren’t all lacy little things for lady’s boudoirs, some were pretty heavy slabs of wood that could really deaden noise and that “felt” like a “real” wall.

View Milo's profile

Milo

849 posts in 1916 days


#21 posted 552 days ago

Hey Feral, seen an example online anywhere?

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View FeralVermonter's profile

FeralVermonter

100 posts in 568 days


#22 posted 552 days ago

No, I’m just talking about what I saw back in the auction days. The auction days ended badly, so I don’t spend a lot of time with that stuff these days. I’m sure you can find plenty of examples… The thick ones I’m talking about were generally framed out like doors, with floating panels and so forth. Some were just laminated boards, like great big cutting boards hinged together. Saw one that was just four gigantic slabs of old-growth, each one 24” wide and 2” thick. Just think 3-4 panels, each with two feet, hinged together. You can pretty much run wild from there. They’re really pretty simple. I think even I could make one.

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