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Which Model SawStop?

by DavidNJ
posted 583 days ago


45 replies so far

View Ripthorn's profile

Ripthorn

734 posts in 1582 days


#1 posted 583 days ago

I have used the 3 hp PCS and it is an awesome saw. When I upgrade, I want that one. As far as a PCS being worth the extra over a contractor saw, that is really up to you. I think the cost difference in the motors is totally worth it, as I work with 8/4 stock and some thicker on a somewhat regular basis. The way i see it, when I purchase one (someday) it will be the last saw I ever buy.

-- Brian T. - Exact science is not an exact science

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#2 posted 583 days ago

Pip, you are saying you would definitely spend $430 (about an extra 17%) for 3hp over 1.75hp in a cabinet saw but are less certain it is worth $1000 more than the 1.75hp contractor model? That also makes sense looking at the used saw; the market for 3hp used cabinet saws is much larger than the market for 1.75hp ones. Note that the 1.75hp PCS cabinet saw could be upgraded to 3hp time for about $600 in parts.

It will be the last saw, but the technology used to stop the blade will probably replaced. When I was talking with SawStop today I suggested something (that I probably should have just patented instead): instead of destroying a sacrificial aluminum block and probably the blade, why not use a disc break like the Siemens wedge brake (http://www.siemens.com/innovation/en/publikationen/publications_pof/pof_fall_2005/auto_electronics/braking_systems.htm).

Unlike conventional disc brakes which require externally developed hydraulic pressure for activation, wedge brakes use the energy in the rotating assembly and the friction between the disc and the pad to apply force. It would be a natural for this application and my napkin analysis is that SawStop averages about 150hp-175hp braking force.

View Mark Smith's profile

Mark Smith

491 posts in 637 days


#3 posted 583 days ago

I didn’t do anywhere near the research you did, but I bought the 1.5 hp Contractors saw for use in my commercial shop and I’m happy with it. It does everything I need for it to do and is very accurate.

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2700 posts in 1174 days


#4 posted 583 days ago

The contractor model is overpriced for what it is.

Yes, the cabinet saw is worth the premium.

If you have 220 power available, go for the 3HP. Remember, if you play your cards right, this can be the last saw you ever buy. If it is, I’d not worry about long term cost, as the time saved in alignment and setup, as well as ease of use. And god forbid you ever trip the brake with skin contact, the saw will likely have just paid for itself many times over.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#5 posted 583 days ago

Mark, could you elaborate on “very accurate”?

NiteWalker, any saw will require a dedicated circuit. The saw is going in the basement, about 60’ feet from the circuit breaker panel. I expect to run new circuits for the table saw, the dust collection, and another for other power tools. We had a second panel box added a decade ago and have ample space for the additional breakers. Since the lines are only going along the basement ceiling I was going to run them. The table saw is going in front of the furnaces and dust collector is going in an alcove behind them, so I was going to bring the lines down along side the furnace lines.

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2700 posts in 1174 days


#6 posted 583 days ago

I would definitely go for the 3 HP then.
I wish I had bought a cabinet saw from the get go back when I started ww 9 years ago. I wouldn’t be on saw #3 which is still not my final saw.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View Mark Smith's profile

Mark Smith

491 posts in 637 days


#7 posted 583 days ago

Very Accurate? It cuts straight lines and if I need something to be exactly 3” wide then I set the table fence at 3” and the piece comes out exactly 3” wide. My previous table saw was my Shopsmith Mark V and the Sawstop is a hundred times better than that.

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1756 days


#8 posted 583 days ago

You have opportunity and permission to buy, perhaps, the last saw you’ll ever need. I’d take advantage of that.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

111999 posts in 2174 days


#9 posted 583 days ago

Were I teach wood working there’s a 5hp SS it’s one of the highest quality table saws I’ve ever used. As far as your selection of which saw style to get ,I think If you think about this as a life time investment and get the best you can afford you will be happier in the long run. years ago when I was in sales work there was a sale technique that was called reduce to the ridiculous ,in essence it’s breaking the value of something to it’s time it’s going to be used . As and example if you pay a $1000 more for the upgraded SS what will the cost you per month for 10 years ,that equals 120 months so 1000 divided by 120 = $8.33 a month or $4.17 a month for 20 years .Even though this was a sale technique it does hold true. In the end it all depends about what you want and are willing to spend and the fact your getting a SS a great investment and insurance policy .

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#10 posted 581 days ago

Jim, I agree with your analysis that the difference has to be annualized over the expected length of ownership. I’d go even further, and look at the residual value so the equation would be

(purchase price including delivery and installation – sale price) / years of ownership

This argument clearly makes the PCS 3 hp preferred over the 1.75 hp. The resale would be significantly higher; many more people in the used market are looking for 3 hp saws. The cost difference per year is small, especially if the dust collection port on the blade cover is used; it is a $139 option on the 1.75 hp model.

It seems the advantages of the contractor saw are that it can be mounted on a specially constructed cabinet that would include storage and that its rear mount motor allows a left side router table. That last feature also reduces the effective cost by $100 since only one cast iron wing would be required. Net, the contractor saw becomes over $1000 less expensive (36%) and has some features advantages.

However, it is very likely that the current SawStop braking action that expends a $70-$90 + tax and shipping brake and a blade will be replaced with a non-destructive technology making the current model obsolete for that feature. Once its safety feature is not unique in the marketplace, SawStop as a company may not survive.

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2700 posts in 1174 days


#11 posted 581 days ago

David, I disagree that sawstop won’t survive if other blade stopping technologies come to be.

You’re not only paying for the blade brake technology; the sawstop is a world class saw, right up there with the unisaw, PM2000, etc.

What makes you think the blade brake will be nondestructive?
I see your diagram above, but is that suitable for high rpm loads?

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View ducky911's profile

ducky911

201 posts in 1386 days


#12 posted 581 days ago

I went with the 3 hp…and it has been a year….and I happy I did.

You can push 5/4 as fast as you want.

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2257 posts in 1480 days


#13 posted 581 days ago

David, my 2 cents: If you are going to spend the money (and if you have the money to spend!) get a cabinet saw, not the contractor saw. With the cabinet saw you are getting a solid, heavier machine with solid cast iron wings which is smooth and vibration free; personally I wouldn’t want to go through the hassle of building a base etc. for the contractor saw. I have the 1.75hp SS model; it is a well built machine that is a pleasure to use. That said, there have been a few times I’ve wished it was 3hp, I definitely have to go slow with 8/4 material, and getting through 8/4 maple was a fight!

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#14 posted 580 days ago

Rob, are you saying in 20/20 hindsight you would go with the 3hp model, no questions asked?

NiteWalker: SawStop has a limited distribution network and competes but does not dominate at competitive prices with a unique and highly desirable feature. Take away the advantage of the feature, could they compete sufficiently at the same price to survive? I’m sure you know of many companies that haven’t.

And yes, a brake could do it. There isn’t that much energy stored in the spinning blade. The hard part is the instant response. That is especially an issue for SawStop because there system requires contact to actuate. For comparison, I believe Whirlwind is a proximity sensor and as a result gets away with a response 3x slower.

I saw the PCS back-to-back with a new Delta. The PCS was nice, the Delta was nicer. If the safety feature didn’t exist I’d probably be a Grizzly or Steel City customer; probably a Grizzly 1023RL for around $1350 delivered.

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2700 posts in 1174 days


#15 posted 580 days ago

They would have to react to the market accordingly.
Other manufacturers would have to raise prices to pay for the new blade brake technology; sawstop would have to adapt or leave the market. The kicker is if the other manufacturers use blade brake technology that doesn’t ruin the blade like you said. Sawstop has the speed advantage for now. A lot can happen in 3x the time it takes for the sawstop blade brake to activate.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

263 posts in 586 days


#16 posted 580 days ago

I have had the 3 HP PCS for a couple of years now and have absolutely no regrets. It is a fine piece of equipment and is accurate and well built. You can not go wrong with it.

As to the comment on an alternate brake system, the advantage of the current one is that it uses the momentum of the blade hitting the aluminum block to take the blade below the table. With the smoothness of the side of a blade, a brake will slide for a little before grabbing. I just do not see how it can be as fast and that is the name of the game. In addition, the heat buildup from friction on the side of the blade is likely to cause a small warpage and make the blade wobble.

I knew when I bought the saw that if it triggers, I am out the cost of the brake cartridge and the blade. It is a lot cheaper than a visit to the emergency room or loss of a finger. I have a spare cartridge and blades but have never had the saw brake fire.

I am very careful with the wood I put on mine checking for any metal. Any wood that I am uncertain of I will use a metal detector. They say that it will not trigger if it cuts through a nail or staple but I really do not want to try that.

View mcase's profile

mcase

438 posts in 1726 days


#17 posted 580 days ago

David,

Back on track: Stamped steel wings and almost no dust collection for the rest of your life. I think you will regret it. By all means if you can swing it get the cabinet saw.

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2700 posts in 1174 days


#18 posted 580 days ago

Again, +1 for mrcase. Contractor saws are an old, tired design and need to be retired.

Redoak49, I agree, the blade brake on the sawstop is proven and reliable.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#19 posted 580 days ago

mcase, NiteWalker…the SS contractor saw is not that bad. You can add the cast iron wings. It is vertical lift. The rear motor mount allows a left cast iron router table ring. Even on the standard legs it is pretty stable. The 3hp PCS with 36 fence is 426 lbs. The similarly priced 3hp Delta with 36 in fence is 624 lbs. The Powermatic is 600 lbs. without fence. The Steel City 3hp with 30in fence is 522 lbs. The Grizzly 1024RL with 471 lbs. Am I missing something here? Why is the SawStop significantly lighter than the rest?

If there were not safety issue, I’d probably get the Delta if money wasn’t an issue and the Grizzly if it was.

RedOak (I see we agree on wood), just a piece of metal won’t trigger it. Neither will a hotdog by itself. It needs to be connected to a significant current sink. In the pictures where the weiner causes it to trigger the operator is touching the weiner; it is the person that provides the sink. Metal in the wood isn’t enough of a sink; the wood isolates it from the saw table, which is enough of a sink. Some wood coatings are conductive and can short the blade to the table causing the brake to fire.

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2257 posts in 1480 days


#20 posted 580 days ago

David, I’d probably go with the 3hp version if I could do it again, but hey, hindsight is 20/20!

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View mcase's profile

mcase

438 posts in 1726 days


#21 posted 580 days ago

DavidNJ

Yes you are missing something, but its not your fault. Its Sawstop’s confusing designations fault. The “professional” is the lighter Sawstop. The “Industrial” Sawstop with the 52” fence in 3hp weighs 750 pounds! Another problem is that Rockler only carries the Professional and Woodcraft usually only displays the Professional. To make an apples to apples comparison with the Unisaw you have to stack it up against the Industrial SS.

View Tbarksdale's profile

Tbarksdale

22 posts in 584 days


#22 posted 580 days ago

One thing to consider if you hit a nail or anything metallic, the Brake engages and the mech brake is shot replacement cost for the assembly is around 400 dollars. i know i tried to cut some techsheld osb at work and it locked down.

-- Tbarksdale Cullman Alabama

View mcase's profile

mcase

438 posts in 1726 days


#23 posted 580 days ago

The brake cartridge replacement is $69.00 at Amazon or direct from SS.

View moke's profile

moke

463 posts in 1373 days


#24 posted 580 days ago

David,
I have the PCS 3 hp 52”. I have had it a couple years now, it is awesome. The wheel assembly is the best I have ever had, the fence is well designed, and the 52” capacity is fantastic if you ever cut much plywood. Make no mistake, it is the best saw I have ever used, but I do have a couple complaints.

1. Without the dust collection/blade guard and using the zero clearance insert it is very messy….I hate that blade guard, it is troublesome and in my estimation, contrary to the idea of the brake….before I get jumped on this is just my opinion!!!

2. The Miter guage sucks….I need to calibrate it constantly….it does not stay square to the blade…possibly mine has an issue, but it certainly doesn’t look like it. I bought a woodpecker square, thinking that my square was off or something…..I put a sharpened star washer under the bolt to hold it fast better, it did help some, but not enough.

3. Changing to the dado blade is time consuming.

Again having said these things I would buy it again in a heartbeat…It is smooth and accurate. The only other thought I have is I hope you have a walk-out basement, because I can not imagine taking it down some stairs!!!

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#25 posted 579 days ago

moke, thanks for your input. I won’t be using the fence or miter gauge—using Incra—so that won’t be an issue. Are you using dust collection? Do you have the dust collection blade guard?

mcase, yes, SS has an Industrial model. However that is $1000+ more than the 3hp Delta and Powermatic. The net is the SawStops are nice saws with a key safety feature that cost $700-1200 more than comparable saws without that safety feature.

View moke's profile

moke

463 posts in 1373 days


#26 posted 579 days ago

David,
Yes I have a DC and I must admit the DC in the blade guard works well, but the guard is medalsome….and the Fence works great, has very little deflection and extremely accurate, it’s the miterguage that is the issue.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has had issue with theirs…I have replaced it with another I had on hand.
Mike

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

877 posts in 707 days


#27 posted 579 days ago

David,

Have you actually used that fence? I ask because the the Biesemeyer clone sold with a PCS is a perfectly accurate, high quality fence. The downsides to the Incra fence are it’s complexity, the fact that shop-made jigs and sleds can’t ride it monorail-style, and it needs far more real estate than a Biese or Biese clone.

I have an SS ICS, and would recommend the PCS without a moment’s hesitation.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View Sarit's profile

Sarit

466 posts in 1737 days


#28 posted 579 days ago

I would get the 3HP PCS. Since its price competitive with other 3HP cabinet saws, its like you’re getting the flesh sensing tech for free.

The tablesaw becomes the most used tool of most woodworking shops. It makes sense to splurge here and go cheap somewhere else.

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

877 posts in 707 days


#29 posted 579 days ago

Has anyone ever bought ANY North American style table saw that didn’t come with a crap miter gauge?

Both of my contractor saws, my General 650, and my SS ICS all came with crappy miter gauges.

I’d love to hear from someone that got a good one in the saw box.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2700 posts in 1174 days


#30 posted 579 days ago

The stock miter gauge that came with my delta tablesaw (36-980) works fine. It stays true and has adjustment for miter slot fit. I’m happy with it. Not as nice as the incra v27 I have, but it does its job.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View Alan72's profile

Alan72

90 posts in 630 days


#31 posted 579 days ago

Hi Dave, I was going through the same thing 2 weeks ago. I was going with the SS contractor saw and I posted which one to get. One of the replys stated why go from contractor saw to contractor saw go with the cabinet saw! The difference was $500.00 from the contractor to the cabinet 1.75hr. My wife said if your spending $2250.00 you might as well spend the extra and get the one you want. So I got the cabinet saw! I just got done setting it up last night. It’s a nice saw and I can finally say, I actually listen to wife and she was right!

View mcase's profile

mcase

438 posts in 1726 days


#32 posted 578 days ago

Miter gauge? If your going to give money to incra get the incra miter gauge and keep the very good stock sawstop fence

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#33 posted 576 days ago

Update…another advantage of the 3hp is the standard dust collection blade guard.

However, the dust collection is running more than I expected (http://lumberjocks.com/topics/44588) which does make the cost saving of the contractor saw attractive.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6914 posts in 1511 days


#34 posted 576 days ago

Frankly, I prefer the NADA model. You know, Nada SawStop.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2700 posts in 1174 days


#35 posted 576 days ago

There’s no need to make a science out of dust collection and attempt to catch every micron that your tools produce. A woodshop is not meant to be a surgical environment. Even with a fairly efficient dust collection setup, you likely breathe in more noxious things walking to the park or store…

Woodshop dust control is a great book to give you some info.

I’m definitely on the “buy once, cry once” side of things now after buying a few tools more than once, hence the 3HP PCS recommendation. For dust collection, I’m buying a PSI 1 1/2HP with cartridge filter. I’ll add my rockler dust right vortex to it as a pre-seperator.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#36 posted 576 days ago

Dust collection is just as great, and maybe greater, health risk than the table saw. Its effect may not be as immediately dramatic, but its effects can be worse. I can’t see any reason to consider Sandor Nagyszalanczy an overall expert in the area of dust collection. He is more a general topic author. PSI makes some great looking cyclone dust collectors. Why did you pic the 1.5hp cartridge model over the slightly more expensive 2hp cyclone model from the same manufacturer?

Back to table saws. If we are at the level of 3hp PCS models, the Grizzly 5hp sliding table 10” table saws are about the same price. They keep your hands far from the blade, clamping the material to the table then sliding the table past the blade. A scoring knife reduces tearouts.

Is the SawStop preferable to a sliding table saw?

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

877 posts in 707 days


#37 posted 575 days ago

“Is the SawStop preferable to a sliding table saw?”

For what?

Maybe yes, maybe no…

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#38 posted 575 days ago

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#39 posted 575 days ago

Quite a few posts on this topic…it seems several people feel they are superior.

Are they safer? They do seem to let the work be clamped in a way that keeps hands out of risk.

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

877 posts in 707 days


#40 posted 575 days ago

Sliders can be safer than a non-Sawstop cabinet saw, and they are superior for repetitive, even stacked, production cuts in sheet goods.

Sliders often take up more floor space, are more complex to maintain, more expensive, and not friendly to shop made jigs for things like tenons, dovetails, or carrier boards for curved parts. Many cannot accept a dado stack. I’ve seen Grizzly sliders in person at Williamsport and didn’t see the cheaper versions to be on the same quality plane as European examples.

So, it all depends on what you want to do, what other tools are in your shop, your available space, and your methods of work.

As a one-person operator who builds things one at a time, I prefer a North American style cabinet saw, equipped with an Ezee-Feed infeed device and a shop-built outfeed table, because I count on my table saw to do many differing operations.

In woodworking, there many answers to the same problem, and the other variables leading to the answer are rarely set in stone. The key is to identify factors that are most difficult for you to change, such as available space, budget, the rest of your major tool compliment… and use those to guide you to your choice. Keep in mind, after 5-10 years, the answer may change. There’s nothing wrong with that, and it’s often impossible to completely predict, but paralysis by analysis is quite easy to achieve.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View MakerofSawdust's profile

MakerofSawdust

27 posts in 1213 days


#41 posted 575 days ago

I also did a lot of research before I bought my 3 HP SawStop PCS about 18 months ago. I LOVE IT! To your points: The dust collection is superior and is one of the most important features for me. It’s why I picked that saw. Dust collection is very important in a basement workshop and mine stays very clean with this saw. It also was not bad getting into the basement either. The weight scared me so I bought an appliance dolly on craigslist specifically to get the saw down to the basement and I found it was very manageable with two people and we could have done it with a regular dolly. With the table wings not yet installed, it’s very manageable. I got the industrial mobile base (by mistake) and with the full 52” extensions, that thing rolls like a dream with minimal push of a finger. I regularly cut 8/4 walnut, maple and red oak without the slightest hesitation from the saw. As for the cost, it’s worth it. When my 8 year old son went with me to pick it up, I just asked if he was ready to go pick up his inheritance. I know he’ll enjoy using it some day as much as I do.

-- - Kevin from Cincinnati. All my work is guaranteed: Three minutes or three feet; whichever comes first.

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#42 posted 574 days ago

Barry, you made lots of good points.

The Grizzly with fairly large capability seems the same price as the SawStop…less if you figure the Incra fence can’t be used.The slightly smaller Hammer (31×48) is a few hundred more. Undoubtedly better built, but the operating costs with its odd size and non-US components could be much higher. They both seem to have the same features, but the Hammer seems to do them in a nicer way.

The big difference is the versatility…it is as if the standard US table saws rely on ad hoc pieces that the sliding table has incorporated. The cross cut sled is one, replaced by the sliding table. By moving with the work, the sliding table clamps the material, not unlike a clamp on the cross cut sled. However, it also allows miter cuts and making the miter fence a push instead of a pull for larger pieces. The rip fence is separate from the mount on the rail so it can be moved to create a cut off gauge rather than adding a piece to the fence with a conventional table saw. Then add the scoring blade to minimize tearouts.

There is a slight market for the European sliding tables in the used market. My guess is the market for a used Grizzly sliding table saw would be very thin. On the other hand, the 3hp SawStop has built a reputation as a solid top draw cabinet saw in addition to the first saw to have a effective blade stopping safety feature.
For safety it seems to keep hands away from the blade. Does this make it as safe as a SawStop?

A note on cost. Take the Sawstop, add a $500 Incra fence, a $275 Incra miter gauge with sled, Ezee-Feed transfer roller tables and you have a $4500 saw. However, all the sliders are huge. This is getting away from me a bit. I was figuring the saw would be less than $800, probably less than $700. The dust collector would be $250-$400. I did have the fence at $500 + another $400 for the router fence/table in the TS. Now my wife won’t let me consider a non-Sawstop solution (saw at $2930 + tax and delivery) and the dust collector look like it will be at least $1200 delivered. That adds a very significant $3000 to the cost and puts the squeeze on everything else.

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

877 posts in 707 days


#43 posted 573 days ago

“add a $500 Incra fence, a $275 Incra miter gauge with sled”

Unless you’re trying to do your part to stimulate the economy, why?

The Biesemeyer clone fence that comes with a SawStop, or for that matter, most any other decent saw, is perfectly usable.

I’ve been using the basic Incra miter gauge (1000?) for over a decade, with a 75 cent renewable MDF fence screwed to it. If I need a stop, I clamp another piece of MDF to the fence. Set the stop the first time using a mark on your work. No scale needed… Need micro adjustability? Drive a screw into the end of your stop, or put a business card or strip of tape between the stop and work. Chances are, you won’t, if you’re cutting everything to length at the same time, they’ll all be identical. I don’t even bother with the extruded fence that came with the miter gauge, as the MDF version gives better cuts and is easier to align, using the kerf cut through it by the blade.

Shop built sleds are far superior to any miter gauge for 90 and 45 degree cuts. I don’t have any hesitation when dropping money on tools, and I’ve never felt the need to replace the basic Incra miter gauge. In reality, once you have a 90 and 45 sled (or five…) the included miter gauge is fine if set from a decent protractor. The only real gain for the Incra is instant repeatability of odd angles.

An Ezee-Feed is GREAT when cutting sheet goods from large panels, but really not at all a necessary item unless you’re doing a good amount of it. Doing something that only requires a sheet or two? Have the lumber dealer make the first cut in each sheet, leaving an inch to be removed by you, or make the early full-sheet cuts on the floor, on 2” sheets of foam, with an inexpensive circular saw. Again, leave some extra for trimming off at the table saw.

An intro to woodworking class, where you can get your hands dirty, and maybe a sliver, might be an eye opening investment before buying much. You’ll also get solid safety instruction. Depending on where in NJ you are, there are some excellent opportunities in NJ, NY, and PA. Up here in CT, I regularily see students at CT Valley School of Woodworking who have traveled from NJ. They’ll grab a room for Friday and Saturday night, take a weekend class, and head home Sunday. If you’re more south, there are some great opportunities in the Philly and NYC burbs…

Lots of tools and accessories are great to have, often for specific operations, but it can also be a real waste of money when purchased without experience or at least the beginnings of personal work methods. Since there are often 50 ways to accomplish a task, just starting on a path with some guidance can add some clarity.

As I mentioned before, the answers are different for folks building repetitive parts, like a professional kitchen builder in a small factory environment, than for one person building items one at a time.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View Dave's profile

Dave

115 posts in 1794 days


#44 posted 573 days ago

I have had the 3HP PCS for over a year now and it’s a fantastic saw. I don’t think as hobbyists that we regularly need 3HP but it can come in handy. The bigger points are the dust collection and whether you have access to 220V. If not the 1.75 HP options are best and it boils down to DC. If you’re working in the basement you should STRONGlY consider the best DC you can afford since the dust will NOT stay in your shop.

Happy hunting!

-- "I'm not afraid of heights. I'm afraid of widths." - Steven Wright

View DavidNJ's profile

DavidNJ

384 posts in 590 days


#45 posted 572 days ago

My wife is fixed on the SawStop…I’ve tried several times to shake her off that to a less expensive saw—everything from a Grizzly 1023RL to a used R4511—she won’t budge. The difference between the 1.75hp and the 3hp is $290.

I won’t restart the Incra fence discussion…just lets say I was looking for a saw to go with the fence.

Did I need the whole miter 5000 setup or would the simple miter gauge have been enough. Maybe….probably. A 1000 would have been cheaper than a 3000, 3000SE, or 5000. However, the difference is fairly small, a rounding error over the overall purchases.

I have seen tried a variety of saws at this point. The SawStop is nice but IMHO not as nice as the Delta and not $1700 more than an 1023RL or 39965. However, my wife insists on the SawStop.

Dust collection is another thread. Does anyone know if there is chart of the pressure drop of the air going through the table saw cabinet? I would think that it would be significant.

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