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Danish Oil, Getting blotchy spots on Cherry panels-see last post

by steve6678
posted 647 days ago


44 replies so far

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112010 posts in 2203 days


#1 posted 647 days ago

Wax is not much in the way of protection .

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#2 posted 647 days ago

yup. but I would think 3-4 coats of Watco would suffice,
trying to cut down on finishing steps, always looking for a simpler way.
Do not enjoy wet sanding a

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2829 posts in 874 days


#3 posted 646 days ago

Watco is probably less protection than wax. I usually do 2 coats of natural danish oil, let it dry for about a week, then either rub on Arm-R-Seal or shoot some semi-gloss poly. I rub out the poly with wax. I would be broke using this method in production though. My finishing cycle is generally about 15 to 20 days.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

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steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#4 posted 646 days ago

Watco, 2 coat’s, then Arm R Seal satin, 2 coat’s, Wax a way…......a week later, done…Jeez

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

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steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#5 posted 643 days ago

what surface (floor, bench, covered, not covered) I mean where do you apply this flood type coat on the piece, where does the drippings go or the mess, seeing as it’s highly combustible, how do you keep safe, not just the rags, but the surface your placing the object to oil?

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2944 posts in 912 days


#6 posted 643 days ago

Try Arm-R-Seal. One coat is all for a top coat. Pretty tough stuff.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#7 posted 643 days ago

what surface (floor, bench, covered, not covered) I mean where do you apply this flood type coat on the piece, where does the drippings go or the mess, seeing as it’s highly combustible, how do you keep safe, not just the rags, but the surface your placing the object to oil?

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2829 posts in 874 days


#8 posted 642 days ago

Russ, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a 1 coat finish. Never mind protection, you need at least 2 or 3 coats to have enough build to sand/rub out the finish. Arm-R-Seal is a wiping varnish, and as such is pretty skimpy on the solids. For any meaningful amount of protection, you want at least 3 to 4 coats.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1127 posts in 2496 days


#9 posted 642 days ago

I have a serious question because I see this combo used alot. Why the danish oil first, is it being used for color ? What is the purpose ?

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2829 posts in 874 days


#10 posted 642 days ago

Charles, I use it to bring out figured grain in pieces I do not stain. I find it pops grain better than just using Arm-r-seal. I always test finishes on scraps of the same wood, and I find the danish oil does the best job (I have tried straight poly, shellac, and danish oil). I’ve tried using just boiled linseed oil, but it takes forever to dry (if it ever dries). I find my “danish oil” (1/3 BLO, 1/3 mineral spirits, 1/3 poly) dries faster, and actually does dry.

I’d be open to suggestions of popping out the figure in unstained pieces before finishing. Lately I’ve been spraying my finishes with MUCH better results. GF enduro sprays really well and looks awesome.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2829 posts in 874 days


#11 posted 642 days ago

Steve, it’s not the liquid that is combustible. Compressed rags that have been soaked in DO/Linseed oil are combustible. I have a finishing table that is just a bench with a large piece of melamine on it. The Melamine cleans up easily.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1127 posts in 2496 days


#12 posted 642 days ago

While all oils have the issue with spontaneous combustion, Linseed is the worst, its sort of an oxidizer, so its far more reactive and heat causing, BLO on metal ( oxidizer) is not a good idea .

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#13 posted 641 days ago

QUESTION:
I applied a coat of Watco Danish Oil Natural today to the two Cherry panels for head board.
I am having a blotchy-ness issue.
I applied heavy, let sit 30 mins. applied again let sit 15, then wiped dry.
See pic:


-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2944 posts in 912 days


#14 posted 641 days ago

On any light colored wood I always use a color conditioner first. You never know when this can happen and a small sample may not show the blotch as good as a large sheet.

On the bright side, this will likely go away in a couple days. Good thing it was only oil and not stain.

With oil I never let it sit thick on the work. I apply and wipe off right away. leaving the oil on does nothing, whatever oil is on it sank in right away and more will only saturate the looser fibers on top. Give it a good pre color conditioner like Charles Neil and several applications of oil wiping excess off right away.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#15 posted 641 days ago

@Russell
should I let it sit for a few days, and see what’s up?
So, when i apply the oil on wet, I should wipe it off right away?
I was just doing it the way I have before…let it sit then re-apply and wipe dry.

I’ll try, next time to wipe and dry.
What can I do to get rid of the blotches on these laborous Cherry Panels, before I Arm-R-Seal??

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2944 posts in 912 days


#16 posted 641 days ago

Charles Neil has commented on this post, he has a website and you can pick up a pretty good supply of his pre color conditioner. I’ve used it and can vouch that it works great.
I think if you let it set for a couple days with good circulation maybe a fan it will be okay. If not you can always sand it out again and start over. It’s been my experience that oils will slightly blotch on hardwood but usually dissipates in a couple days if you stay calm.
I apply my oil with a foam brush to get a good even coat and work it in good, then after I do the whole board quickly, I wipe it off and wipe it hard to get all you can out of it. Let it dry depending on humidity and temp couple hours to couple days. Then do it again. With Danish oil two coats is plenty unless you want to darken it.
Of course everyone has their own mix of what to use and you will too, but I try to stay simple as possible so I can repeat without forgetting.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1127 posts in 2496 days


#17 posted 641 days ago

dont panic, Danish oil dries slow, you have more of a case of wet spots, let it dry a few days it should improve, had you had color, that would be a different animal, the natural color has a little amber to it, but as the cherry ages a bit and th color darkens a little it will over power the amber color, you will be fine i think

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2829 posts in 874 days


#18 posted 641 days ago

I’m still pretty new to finishing, but I don’t understand how a color conditioner would help here. There is no color being added. The only issue I see is you followed the directions on the can. I’ve had the best results with Bob Flexners recommended method.

1 – Make sure you sand evenly. A quick wipe with mineral spirits will show you any glue you missed or any rougher spots that will take more finish than others

2 – FLOOD the surface with danish oil. I mean pour it on out of the can and smear it around with a rag. Keep an eye on it for about half an hour. Any spots that dry should have more DO applied. You want it wet on the surface. Let that dry overnight (or 24 hours)

3 – Sand gently with 400 or 600 grit. Get the dust off

4 – Wipe another coat on. Do the same as above as far as babysitting it. any spots that dry, touch up a bit. You don’t want to soak it on with this coat, just a nice slick surface. After about an hour, wipe it down. Again, babysit it for several hours, Some DO will weep out and it will leave spots if you let it dry. This is best done on a weekend where you can go check every few hours. Let that dry for a few days (7 to 10 ideal)

Scuff it up a bit and finish it with whatever method you chose.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View Arlin Eastman's profile

Arlin Eastman

1970 posts in 1187 days


#19 posted 641 days ago

Here is a link for what you are asking for

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/search?term=Arm+R+Seal

Arlin

-- It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1346 posts in 809 days


#20 posted 641 days ago

lumberjoe: there’s no color, but the wood absorbs the finish unevenly, which will affect the perceived finish color. A prestain conditioner or sealer minimizes this by having the wood absorb a thin sacrificial finish, with a light sanding to get the board back to a baseline. Then the stain or toner coats are applied. The parts of the wood that would absorb more finish already have been “filled” by the sealer, so the color is more even.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#21 posted 641 days ago

I cannot afford this blotching to hapen to the rest of the Cherry on this project.
I am very vigilant when sanding, I wipe before each successive grit and use a downdraft table and a vac orbital.
I went from 120g to 220g, sometimes I go 320g, I don’t think I did on the panels.

When I applied the Watco, I used a shop towel, dipping in a clean pale of watco, and wiped on nice and wet, it soaked in quick and I added more where it seemed to dissipate, but I could have kept adding oil all day as it kept drying up fast, like the wood was freaking starving, ha.
I waited 30 mins, and applied again but waited less time, 15, then I wiped totally dry.

BUT I seen the blotches right from the beginning!!!!!!!!
I cleaned the wood prior with a tack cloth, brand new, hmmm

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1127 posts in 2496 days


#22 posted 641 days ago

how long has it dried

View Gshepherd's profile

Gshepherd

1465 posts in 827 days


#23 posted 641 days ago

Danish Oil is my favorite finish along with a final wax. I never go past 150 grit on the surface with the first coat.

How about a wipe down with some mineral spirits??? Then sand 120, very light coat, the 150, light, 180 light, 220-320????

-- What we do in life will Echo through Eternity........

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#24 posted 641 days ago

I put it on today at 10am, and when I left the shop at 4pm, it still was blotchy, haven’t been to check it since, but I will when this football game is over

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1127 posts in 2496 days


#25 posted 641 days ago

Gshepherd is right, you could wipe it down with some mineral spitits or naphtha , to remove some of the oil, but its simply not dry and wont be for several days

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#26 posted 641 days ago

Yup, I am not in a rush anyhow…so I’ll let it sit for a few days, and if it’s not any better, I’ll sand it and start again with a better method.. never had a big blotch problem with Watco, but I haven’t used it much, and this is the first with Cherry, I want to use Watco as my go-to oil, so I want to learn what ever I can, that’s why I ask a lot of questions on LumberJocks…about all kinds of stuff…if I have a question, this is the FIRST place I go to!

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

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steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#27 posted 640 days ago

what about wiping on a Bartley gel top coat before wiping the Danish oil on, or would this negate the absorbtion of the Watco??

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#28 posted 640 days ago

a day later…and still blotchy spots…
If it still has them by Wednesday, i am going to sand down the oil finish and apply again differently.

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2944 posts in 912 days


#29 posted 640 days ago

You know, if you haven’t put a finish on the rest of the cherry you have, you probably ought to sand it down anyway because you’ll be using a blotch control on the rest and they won’t match these.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2829 posts in 874 days


#30 posted 640 days ago

I may just start another topic, but I still don’t understand the use of blotch controllers when applying a natural finish. A blotch controller is essentially a diluted form of what you will be applying anyway. Whether it be a washcoat of thinned varnish, (Watco is really a super thin varnish and BLO) dewaxed shellac, etc – essentially these things are the same as what you would be getting blotching from.

I’m not saying they are not necessary, but in my head it just doesn’t make sense. I use the Charles Neil stuff whenever I stain, but I would never reach for it if I am just applying finish. Someone school me!

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2944 posts in 912 days


#31 posted 640 days ago

lumberjoe, the only time i’ve had oil blotch is with soft wood. I had just a bit on some walnut but it dried fine in a couple days. Not working with light colored hardwood, I don’t know, but I would guess that given enough surface and the fact that guys are glomming on the oil and leaving it sit on the work, that that is where the blotchyness comes from. You’re going to have slightly different densities even on one board and that will show. I minimize it by applying the oil and wiping it off with in a minute or two. The wiping tends to even it out more that just letting it turn to goo.
This just works for me, so I’m not trying to tell anyone they’re doing it wrong.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#32 posted 640 days ago

That sounds logical.
I’m going to give it another day…then sand, and wipe on and then off after a few mins.
We’ll see.?.?
I don’t see the need for a blotch controller on American Cherry, I am not staining, If I get a problem again, I’ll just apply a Gel Top Coat only.
I am glad I (tried) to finish these panels before (as I always do) assembling, a floating panel should be pre-finished in my book.

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2944 posts in 912 days


#33 posted 640 days ago

Good luck whatever you do Steve and post the project when you get done.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#34 posted 640 days ago

BTW I got my first order of “High Quality” clamps today…(I usually cheap-out and buy bargins) I bought two Bessey 60” Revo K bodies, they are sweet!

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#35 posted 640 days ago

I will..
Thanks for all your time guys, really helpful, and nice of you, sharing your experience.

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1346 posts in 809 days


#36 posted 640 days ago

Russel, it’s not just a problem with softwoods, or a technique problem. Some woods are more blotch prone than others, and cherry is one of the hardwoods that can be blotchy. Maple is another. Birch is a third.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#37 posted 640 days ago

Cherry…and maple… the rest of my project is Hard Maple, the panels are for a head board, the rest of the head board is Maple except for the top cap; Cherry.
The dresser is a 9 drawer, cherry top and drawer fronts, rest is maple.
I have a new Gallon of Watco Natural, and a Gallon of Arm-R-Seal Satin.
I hope all the work in milling and sanding doesn’t go without a final finish that works out…hope, ha

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2829 posts in 874 days


#38 posted 639 days ago

Russ, I agree about the softwoods and stain, Pine is just a nightmare to work with. In addition cherry is probably one of the most difficult woods to stain, but I have never had a problem with a straight finish application, or an oil/varnish. My pieces always look like the ones Steve posted after application, but even themselves out after a few days of drying. Soft maple does the same thing for me too.

Steve, another thing thing you mentioned which probably doesn’t have anything to do with your issue, but may is you skip a lot of grits when sanding. 120 to 220 is a big jump. I go from 120 to 150 then to 180. A lot of times I will stop there and wipe with mineral spirits. If I still see some scratch marks I will go to 220.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#39 posted 639 days ago

no i went 120 150 180 and wiped down inbetween

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#40 posted 638 days ago

Sanded panels today, 120,150,180,220.

Blotches still visible. I used 4 disc’s of 120 ea panel and I couldn’t get past the Watco absorbtion.

I am going to wipe back on Watco and immeadeately wipe off. twice.
Then wait 3 days and General arm-R-Seal, then Goddards Cabinet Makers Paste Wax.
Cherry is a bitch.

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View Gshepherd's profile

Gshepherd

1465 posts in 827 days


#41 posted 638 days ago

Did you hit it with Mineral Spirits?

-- What we do in life will Echo through Eternity........

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#42 posted 638 days ago

No

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

View Gshepherd's profile

Gshepherd

1465 posts in 827 days


#43 posted 638 days ago

is it still tacky? if so, as stated 3 days ago, wipe down with mineral spirits…. it will get some of it out of there…..

-- What we do in life will Echo through Eternity........

View steve6678's profile

steve6678

438 posts in 686 days


#44 posted 638 days ago

No, it’s dry, I just sanded them with all the grits, still blotchy, but I will wipe them down with spirits befor e I attempt the next Watco app

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

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