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View Tedstor's profile

Wrong.....just wrong.

by Tedstor
posted 11-09-2012 11:28 PM


34 replies so far

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14864 posts in 2364 days


#1 posted 11-10-2012 01:05 AM

The late, great Paul Harvey reported many years ago the guy that invented the windshield wiper delay finally settled for a pittance with the auto makers to stole it and installed it for decades. When asked why he settled for practically nothing after fighting for decades, he said he’d die before it was over! ;-(

All the countries that are doing well have reasonable trade policies in place. A reversal of copro greed is on the horizon ;-)

Thanks for the tip on Sears. I was just there today. I’ll watch their China imports a bit closer!

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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Tedstor

1369 posts in 1321 days


#2 posted 11-10-2012 01:34 AM

Jim. Lighten up amigo. Life is too short.
Besides, I voted for Romney…... While pinching my nose.

View derosa's profile

derosa

1556 posts in 1524 days


#3 posted 11-10-2012 02:02 AM

Jim- I’ve been finding that US manufacturing has been increasing for the last couple years. I just finished building myself a sweet set of bicycles wheels. The hubs are manufactured by Chris King, a US company that has always and only been US. The spokes and nipples are Wheelsmith, a company that bought back the tooling to move production to the US and the rims are made by Velocity. Mine are from Australia however the company has just this year moved their production facilities to the US and just this month has begun production of US made rims. This on a frame that says handmade in the USA.
At the local dollar store I was pleasantly surprised to find their 10.00 garbage can was US made, took that home a couple months ago. In the last year my daughter received a cozy coupe, a play kitchen and a play tool set, all had a big american flag on the box and proudly proclaimed US manufacture. Stuff is coming back in droves and the jobs with them if you look.
For me this is tough to deal with since I have always shopped sears’ tool isle for anything craftsman that said US made but didn’t realize they were pulling crap like this. Time to see who else makes US made tools and I’ll be picking up my complete set of US made channellocks elsewhere.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

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JJohnston

1586 posts in 1979 days


#4 posted 11-10-2012 02:08 AM

Just think: if Romney had been elected, he’d have gone and busted some heads at Sears and gotten this guy some justice!

-- "Sometimes even now, when I'm feeling lonely and beat, I drift back in time, and I find my feet...Down on Main Street." - Bob Seger

View Paul C.'s profile

Paul C.

154 posts in 1933 days


#5 posted 11-10-2012 02:22 AM

I am wondering if you are kidding….

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6948 posts in 1602 days


#6 posted 11-10-2012 11:33 AM

“Bain Capital”... why am I not surprised.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4137 posts in 1068 days


#7 posted 11-11-2012 09:32 AM

So this is really just a political thread in disguise. Vote for Romney while complaining about American companies outsourcing to China, the irony is palpable.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View Gshepherd's profile

Gshepherd

1518 posts in 889 days


#8 posted 11-11-2012 10:00 AM

I just read it and talk about sticking it to someone….... Sure changes my opinion on Sears…...

Derosa, your 100% correct. If everyone of us would just take the time to research when we are in the market for a new tool, clothes, appliance, ect ect and buy when ever possible if would make a impact….....

Just because it is made here does not mean it is the best that I know but you be surprised on what is actually made here and we should try to support those companys…. Providing they have a good product of course.

-- What we do in life will Echo through Eternity........

View OnlyJustME's profile

OnlyJustME

1562 posts in 1065 days


#9 posted 11-11-2012 01:20 PM

Just because there is a us flag on the box doesn’t mean the product is made in america. It could mean that the box was printed in america.

-- In the end, when your life flashes before your eyes, will you like what you see?

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

1003 posts in 1553 days


#10 posted 11-11-2012 01:28 PM

Watch for items at the dollar store that have any sort of Made in USA or UL Listed sticker on them. Chinese companies aren’t past faking UL approval and even made in USA sticers. Last year I saw a piece on Chrstmas lights that had fake UL approved stickers on them.

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1250 days


#11 posted 11-11-2012 07:29 PM

While I can only do a very small part by not shopping at Sears, there’s just not enough will power or momentum among the broader population to do the same. So in the end it makes very little difference except for a small sense of satisfaction knowing that I’ve done the right thing.

Corporate thugs have counted on this general apathy for a very long time and profited obscenely as a result. But for some odd reason (sarcasm), people still refuse to make the connection between long-term trends of manufacturing losses, high unemployment, lower wages, and the rise of corporate raiders that define the likes of Bain Capital et al.

Here’s the best illustration that I’ve seen of this willful disconnect (thank you, Wilburpan!) – http://youtu.be/4py2rvL0_3E

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6948 posts in 1602 days


#12 posted 11-11-2012 08:06 PM

American wages have been declining since 1970, and American’s buying power has followed that same trend. THAT is not apathy, just simple loss of buying power.

This whole “buy American” mentality is misguided. Read up on Deming and how his QC through employee empowerment changed Japan junk into high tech and how this same methodology is changing Asia, and particularly China manufacturing. The junk that has been coming out of China is quickly being replaced with higher and higher quality product, just as it happened in Japan. China built its infrastructure (factories) and employed thousands making junk, but those employees HAD A JOB. As the factories upgrade to better technology, China still has an employed workforce ready and willing to upgrade as well. Pay attention folks, it won’t be that many more years until when China will be king of technology AND manufacturing expertise. An example… try to buy a flatscreen “anything” that is not made in China.

American corporations will have nothing to do with empowering employees (Deming) and thus America has lost the one thing that originally made us great.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View casual1carpenter's profile

casual1carpenter

353 posts in 1163 days


#13 posted 11-11-2012 09:01 PM

This whole “buy American” mentality is misguided????

A man invents and patents a tool. Kmart, excuse me Sears has so large a volume of sales on the tool that they abandon the patent owner and try to push a china knock-off in it’s place. Sears, Bain Capital and Apex tools do not care about anything but profits so I for one will let the chinese buy there own stuff. If I buy from an American owned company who builds with American labor perhaps my fellow Americans will have a job.

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

1003 posts in 1553 days


#14 posted 11-11-2012 09:15 PM

American corporations will have nothing to do with empowering employees (Deming) and thus America has lost the one thing that originally made us great.

Unlike the benevolent empolyers in China…

View derosa's profile

derosa

1556 posts in 1524 days


#15 posted 11-12-2012 12:43 AM

There is something to what Mike is saying. All too often American companies will complain about the lack of skilled labor while not wanting to educate their employees. Look at how many jobs are available in the US vs. skilled labor to fill them. We have a surplus of jobs and a surplus of unemployed but we seem to lack companies that are willing to train the unskilled.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14864 posts in 2364 days


#16 posted 11-12-2012 01:01 AM

Bottomline; everyone wants something for nothing, don’t they?

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

1003 posts in 1553 days


#17 posted 11-12-2012 01:02 AM

Training costs money and takes time. For such jobs we are not talking about a week long course, we are talking multiple year long appreticeships.

I work in a field that is almost like gypsies, all of the older guys seems to have worked at the same places for the same companies untill the next place of employment comes along. The good thing is there are probably only a few hundered people in the world that have my skill set, the bad thing is it requires me to go to places for long periods of time where they are needed. After rambling I guess my point is they want people that already know how to do the job, someone in training doesnt make any money for the company.

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3790 posts in 2056 days


#18 posted 11-12-2012 05:58 AM

Fortunately, a small change has been going on moving some manufacturing back here! In on of the latest report there are concerns about the surviveabilty of a factory in earthquakes and the like. So companies are hedging their bets and returning some manufacturing to the states.

Some of the furniture manufacturers are not building the furniture over seas, just the parts and doing the assembly on this continent! This is due mainly to shipping cost!

Let’s hope this trend continues!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View bunkie's profile

bunkie

411 posts in 1835 days


#19 posted 11-12-2012 12:26 PM

This weekend, my wife and I bought a bed and a set of nightstands from a local (non-chain) furniture store. They are made by an Amish group in the same state. The price was very reasonable and the pieces are well made from solid red oak. My wife really wanted a mission-style bed and I just don’t have the time to meet her delivery schedule.

We’ll pick the bed up next week, but we did take one of the nightstands. It’s a marvel of how to maximize small scale manufacturing. Pocket screws replace mortise and tenon joints, for example. The Mission style lends itself well to this sort of thing.

We already have one of their coffee tables and it is well-made and well-priced.

With respect to Sears, for various reasons, I no longer buy tools from them.

-- Altruism is, ultimately, self-serving

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6948 posts in 1602 days


#20 posted 11-12-2012 01:33 PM

patcollins: ”...Training costs money and takes time. For such jobs we are not talking about a week long course, we are talking multiple year long appreticeships….”

That is correct Pat, however go back 40-50 years and American companies/corporations DID pay for just that, in order to have an educated workforce. Once these American corporations learned how to weasel out of training their own workforce, guess what? These same corporations THEN took aim at decreasing worker healthcare programs, and guess what? No more healthcare coverage at work, yet these corporate heads are making RECORD profits and bonuses.

OH, and it gets EVEN BETTER (or worse). These large American corporations are NOW getting college graduates to WORK FOR FREE! That is right, I did not mumble nor lie… FREE LABOR. They do this under the guise of graduates “competing” for unpaid internships for months at a time, and with NO guarantee of employment in the future. These American corporations may go through 3-4 “interns” before hiring someone. THAT folks, is free labor for a year or more before they “finally decide” on a candidate. And you thought it couldn’t get worse… 8-(

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3790 posts in 2056 days


#21 posted 11-12-2012 06:13 PM

Mike is correct! Companies are squeezing every penny for the sake of the bottom line, stock holders, and high end management pay/golden parachutes.

In Germany companies pay for training/retraining of employees and still make money! I am sure they are not alone!

The mindset of corporations need to be changed!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14864 posts in 2364 days


#22 posted 11-12-2012 06:24 PM

We have been through this before, in the late 19th and early 20th centuries

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

1003 posts in 1553 days


#23 posted 11-12-2012 10:13 PM

I think the free intern thing must be field dependent. At my job summer hires make $20 an hour and are used for menial tasks like go through reports and throw out the ones older than x or go to our storage building and get me y.

View vernonator's profile

vernonator

68 posts in 1339 days


#24 posted 11-13-2012 04:41 PM

Excuse my ignorance but WTF does Bain Capital have to do with any of this? Oh….here is a small list of companies “exploited” by Bain

AMC Entertainment, Aspen Education Group, Brookstone,Clear Channel, Domino’s Pizza, Burger King, Sealy Corporation, Dunkin’ Donuts, Gymboree, Toys R Us, RJR Nabisco, Michael’s Craft Store, Burlington Coat Factory and Staples, Guitar Center, Sports Authority, Warner Music, The Weather Channel…..the list keeps on going.

If you have a 401k or mutual fund more than likely you profited from Bain’s work….stick that in your pipe and smoke it….

View casual1carpenter's profile

casual1carpenter

353 posts in 1163 days


#25 posted 11-13-2012 05:09 PM

Seems we got off on a tangent here. The OP linked and commented about an inventor who tried to get ahead by bringing his product to market. Because of his pride in his country and it’s people and his belief that he could help bring jobs back to US thereby contributing his own bit of help to shift the trade imbalance even slightly. He tried to operate his own company and retain control and produce a quality product here at home. I imagine that the few big fish don’t like the little fish swimming in their pond except as a food source.

Why does President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the “CCC” “WPS” come to mind. Politics aside I just sort of see history repeating itself.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6948 posts in 1602 days


#26 posted 11-13-2012 05:25 PM

@casual1carpenter +10 and another +10 for FDR

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

1003 posts in 1553 days


#27 posted 11-25-2012 09:19 PM

I just saw the American made version of this in Walmart this weekend for $15.

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

2499 posts in 2430 days


#28 posted 11-26-2012 10:28 PM

It is much like the show Shark tank – where the inventor of Invisirack – a truck cargo rack – was shot down by the show because he insisted on NOT moving production to China.

So all 5 investors said NO because “the inventor was not willing to do what was necessary to be a success”
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/MadeInAmerica/made-america-truck-rack-afloat-shark-tank-rejection/story?id=16264196

For all the talk of making more products here and “paying a living wage”....Walmart is still really busy, as is Harbor Freight, and Grizzly.
Not really politics – but people are voting with their wallets, and by their buying habits – are demanding that businesses move overseas. Lincoln isn’t going to be able to make a wire feed welder for 89 dollars Retail (HF price on the shelf). Just consider that the workers to make it here will cost about 30 bucks an hours – (to PAY 20 bucks an hour) so after 3 man-hours – without including any parts/materials or any mark-up on the product, you are already losing money.

CEO’s are indeed overpaid, but as a % of the total business of the company – their compensation is peanuts, and has little to do with outsourcing.

If people won’t pay the cost of production….you either exit the business – or lower cost of production until there are buyers.

Not a lot of folks would employ your cabinet shop even with nice cabinets if you are $500/foot. While Home Depot will supply Kraftmaid at 150/foot. Either as Shop owner you have to be competitive….So how do you close the gap?

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1467 posts in 1202 days


#29 posted 11-26-2012 10:54 PM

Have to be honest here, Mike is mostly right, save for a few problems people always overlook about China. Since about 2004, they have mandated twice a year raises for all Chinese employees, mostly to pacify them and help them enter the lower middle class. Right now, Chinese wages have reached the point where we can compete if we use Lean, Kaizen, Six Sigma, etc.
In China, their own internal economy has never supported itself, since Chinese families teach their own to save 20 to 50% of their income, rather than purchase more goods.
In addition, China is aging fast, mostly due to 39 years of one child, which they are seriously considering eliminating in 2013. It is ruining their workforce, and the retired people are growing faster than a new generation.
China will eventually catch up with other Democratic Asian economies, given another ten or so years. That is why we are already seeing some products returning.

But until the general public in the USA and Europe stops buying low cost TV’s, appliances and a host of other products, the Asian train will continue. I always appreciate people supporting their country, but the fact is, we are in a global economy, and it is here to stay.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

1003 posts in 1553 days


#30 posted 11-26-2012 11:35 PM

There are alot more than just labor cost to running a buisness too. It is a lot cheaper to open a factory when you can just dump the waste in the water and air and the neighborhood isn’t crying “Not in my backyard”.

View JoeinGa's profile (online now)

JoeinGa

3335 posts in 695 days


#31 posted 12-31-2012 02:53 PM

I spent 11 years working for the largest manufacturer of hair care products in the US. I remember times when we would ship in hair brushes from the far east and pay our folks to take the brushes out of the original “made in China” packaging and then send the brushes thru our packing lines and put that same brush in OUR “made in USA” packaging… just so we could get them cheap enough to be able to satisfy WallyWorlds pricing policy!

At that time, it cost us about 11 cents each to make and package a brush here in the US (which was sold to the comsumer for $3.99). We could import that SAME EXACT BRUSH already packaged for sale to the consumer for 2.5cents each.

When I started there we had about 2000 employees here in the US. When I left, they were down to less than 100. About a year later they closed the plant I worked at and started importing the products.

That company is now importing 99% of their products.

-- Perform A Random Act Of Kindness Today ... Pay It Forward

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1321 days


#32 posted 12-31-2012 11:48 PM

but hey, at least we didn’t have to pass that 8.5 cents on to the consumer.

And yes, I was being sarcastic.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6948 posts in 1602 days


#33 posted 01-01-2013 12:07 AM

Hey Joe, isn’t crony-capitalism just grand or what…

(sarcasm ON)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1321 days


#34 posted 01-01-2013 03:29 AM

Agreed, they have a good company policy regarding their reserve/guard employees.

Disagree. Definitely subjective, but after 8 years as a mechanic, I found snap-on tools to be considerably better than craftsman. But I too also enjoy the craftsman tools that I do own.

Their company poilcy towards employees and the quality of their products is not a license to shamelessly steal patents and ship jobs to China.

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