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All Replies on Please save me from drinking the SawStop Kool-Aid

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View gmaffPappy's profile

Please save me from drinking the SawStop Kool-Aid

by gmaffPappy
posted 609 days ago


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123 replies

123 replies so far

View mbs's profile

mbs

1418 posts in 1524 days


#101 posted 601 days ago

Before I set eyes on the original SS I figured the manufacturers would really skimp on the quality of the machine in order to make it affordable with the Safety features. I thought the technology was interesting but I wasn’t going to pay for the safety technology on a crappy saw. I’m very happy to see that I was wrong.

It was nice reading the posts from other SS owners to find that the attention to detail i’ve experienced is consistent. So far, I don’t think I’ve read about a SS lemon or bad customer service. Thats pretty impressive because its usually easy to find unhappy people with any product.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2632 posts in 1161 days


#102 posted 601 days ago

Congrats! You made a good choice. :)
I can’t wait to get mine early next year.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View joeyinsouthaustin's profile (online now)

joeyinsouthaustin

1199 posts in 656 days


#103 posted 600 days ago

This thread reminds me of watching wood working shows and video’s where the “guard is removed for filming” There is always a balance of risk verses the interference of safety devices, as well as safety and efficiency. Experience and other factors can alter that balance. (I make my living cutting wood, not playing the guitar and typing) As un-obtrusive as the saw stop safety feature is, it is not right for all situations… HM’s point is very relevant when thinking about that. The fact that you are asking the questions on this forum tells me that saw stop is right for you. The right balance of confidence and caution is critical when stepping up to any power tool, especially the TS, and it sounds like there are very few other factors that would say you shouldn’t get one if you are concerned. Including quality of the machine before the safety device is taken into account.

Of course how many saw stop owners run there table saw with the blade guard taken off?? ;)

-- Who is John Galt?

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3628 posts in 2247 days


#104 posted 600 days ago

joeyinsouthaustin—I actually like running my SawStop with the guard on. My saw is equipped with the overarm dust collection system, which actually does a pretty darned good job. It is installed for all rip and crosscut operations.

The guard only comes off when the dado stack is in use or when I am making non-severing cuts and in that case, I use the riving knife..

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Straightbowed's profile

Straightbowed

717 posts in 882 days


#105 posted 600 days ago

I is gonna buy the new sawstop jointer its comin out n 2014 its one beautiful pc of equip

-- Stevo, work in tha city woodshop in the country

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6907 posts in 1498 days


#106 posted 600 days ago

Overhead DC sounds like a very cool feature. Having sucked enough dust, even with the standard DC running, I could appreciate an overhead system on my TS.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View joeyinsouthaustin's profile (online now)

joeyinsouthaustin

1199 posts in 656 days


#107 posted 600 days ago

TheDane I like those systems and will have them on all three of my saws when I upgrade dust collection. However…. You are most likely using it because of the dust collection, and not the safety…. And it was just a joke. (with probably a lot of truth behind it) There are many situations I would employ a sawstop saw. Just not in my commercial operation. The reason I don’t is exactly HM’s comment, There are soooo many other tools in the shop that can maim or kill that don’t have that feature. The entire climate of the shop is safety, at all times, all tools. The risk/reward balance doesn’t justify the down time of a cartrage firing… especially since only saw operators are allowed on the TS, and the types of material that go through daily. Over 10 years our safety record is only 1 TS accident. That operator was fired 8 months later for drinking on the job. Irony is when I build my home shop I will install a saw stop saw there. I would like to install one as a non operator saw for training in my current shop as well.

As for the state laws and such…. I’m in Texas… so no worries

-- Who is John Galt?

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3628 posts in 2247 days


#108 posted 600 days ago

joeyinsouthaustin—You are correct … to me the safety feature never enters into it. In truth, the only time I think about it is when I am setting up my aluminum box joint jig or my aluminum fence (either would fire the brake cartridge if they would contact the blade).

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Woodsurgin's profile

Woodsurgin

30 posts in 1195 days


#109 posted 600 days ago

Does anyone have a comment on whether a 5hp cabinet saw is more useful than a 3hp i cabinet making? Is there any safety benefit from having the 5hp saw? What about kickback? Is there more danger from the extra power of a 5hp saw kicking back than a 3 hp?
I’m looking at the Delta Unisaw and there are some deals which tempt me towards the 5 hp.

View joeyinsouthaustin's profile (online now)

joeyinsouthaustin

1199 posts in 656 days


#110 posted 600 days ago

We use 3 hp saws in my cabinet shop. They are plenty for cabinet making. I only wish for 5 hp when it comes to sawing larger hardwoods. But still both saws are plenty powerful enough to do all. Technically i could see that a saw bogging down could contribute to kick back, but mostly bad technique is the biggest contributor. Getting kicked by 3 horses any better that 5?? Either way it sucks. If the price were close I am a MORE POWER kinda guy. Usually the electrical requirements are the same, but I would keep an eye on that.

-- Who is John Galt?

View BHolcombe's profile

BHolcombe

83 posts in 660 days


#111 posted 599 days ago

One of my hobbies was Drag Racing. I met a lot of people who hated safety equipment, none of which were ever the same people who had an accident in their past. So as I built my car I kept in mind that being short-sighted in safety is a terrible mistake, if the equipment exists put it to use. Not just what was ‘required’ by the association, but what I felt was nessecary beyond that. I was a witness to many preventable accidents, that helped encourage things like a halon system, drive studs, chrome steel drive shafts, ect.

I think you made the right decision.

View gmaffPappy's profile

gmaffPappy

13 posts in 615 days


#112 posted 599 days ago

Here’s an update on the SS.

It’s nearly together, but the extension table came missing the legs, leg brackets, and hardware pack. So there’s no review yet. I’m waiting on a new Extension Table to be ordered and delivered.

By the way, I measured again before going to buy the saw, and decided to get the 52” instead of the 36”. I wasn’t sure I’d be comfortable with the clearance for walking around it. With the 52” rails, there’s just over 2’ of clearance around the left side of the table. Perfect fit.

-- If it's easy to do, you haven't spent enough time over engineering it.

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

876 posts in 694 days


#113 posted 598 days ago

Mike,

Even with this:

on a SawStop, 6” pipe, and a cyclone, I still get dust on the floor and in the fence channel.

I have noticed that the saw and guard seem to grab the really fine stuff. The stuff that flies out is the consistency of what might fall beneath a chain saw. The guard is raised for the photo, it’s normally bouncing along the stock.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1146 days


#114 posted 598 days ago

gmaffPappy and CessnaPilotBarry,

My wife recently installed a tool-porn blocker on my computer (damn her!), so all I can see are blurred geometrical shapes with a few specks of black, red and yellow. However, your descriptions do help… the 52” instead of the 36” oh yeah!

Seriously, that picture of an unopened set of of SS boxes is like Christmas morning. And Barry’s yellow overarm dust/guard system is way cool!

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3034 posts in 1259 days


#115 posted 598 days ago

My friend tells me that playing the madolin with no thumb on the left hand just isn’t the same. This happened in the last couple of years so the technology to re-attach the thumb was there.

View mbs's profile

mbs

1418 posts in 1524 days


#116 posted 595 days ago

I have their other blade guard and get almost no saw dust unless I’m cutting the edge of the board. I’m very impressed with the dust collection capabilities of the blade guard and I’m going to try to adapt my felder to use the same system.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View doordude's profile

doordude

1085 posts in 1567 days


#117 posted 594 days ago

it’s a great machine. if you can afford it why not buy it. it’s like buying an insurance policy,just prepare for the worst.

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

2336 posts in 2326 days


#118 posted 591 days ago

You did good. You mention that you have kids. At some point they will work with you – and teenagers are not always so good at staying focused on task.
I have a 3HP Unisaw ~7 years old now, and no accidents, but I want to change to a Sawstop as the kids like to work on projects with me, and I am scared one day they will push the green button and not have the stock tight against the fence, and we will end up in the ER.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

View Woodbum's profile

Woodbum

400 posts in 1649 days


#119 posted 590 days ago

What Horizontal Mike said x 100. I was born a Devils Advocate, argumentative as hell…and opinionated as well. DbHost makes great points also. If I was going to spend all my time worrying about losing my fingers in a table saw accident, I would never go into a shop again. I spend my time thinking about what I am doing and using the greatest safety device of all time, my brain. Will I have a shop accident? Who knows. Will I have a shop accident if I spend a lot of money with SawStop? Again, who knows. What is the difference in the answers? Zero. This is personal opinion only, meant only for me. If dealing with SawStop makes you feel better, go for it. If not don’t. I like TheDane’s reasoning though, protecting his grandsons. My father in law was a professional finish carpenter for his whole life. He lost two fingers, in a jointer accident, no simple table saw cut for him, he got his fingers chewed off. Think about that one. This will be my last rant about Sawstops. It is getting about as boring as the whole hand tool v power tool dustup.

-- Improvidus, Apto quod Victum-- Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

View Earlextech's profile

Earlextech

888 posts in 1274 days


#120 posted 590 days ago

Woodbum – “Will I have a shop accident? Who knows. Will I have a shop accident if I spend a lot of money with SawStop? Again, who knows. What is the difference in the answers?”

The difference is, if you have that accident on the SS, you won’t lose a finger. No matter what your brain is thinking.

-- Sam Hamory - The project is never finished until its "finished"!

View William's profile

William

8840 posts in 1426 days


#121 posted 590 days ago

I am one of those who has found myself disgusted by the political crap behind the Sawstop.

That being said, if I had the money, one would be sitting in my shop.

The hell with the crap behind it. The saw has a safety feature that would make it worth swallowing my pride on the political crap in a heartbeat of an accident.

-- http://wddsrfinewoodworks.blogspot.com/

View Woodbum's profile

Woodbum

400 posts in 1649 days


#122 posted 590 days ago

Earlextech: Not completely true. A Sawstop will not prevent all table saw accidents. It is not the end all of TS accidents. It will not prevent kickback, nor will it prevent lunkhead accidents such as freehand cutting. What about green-wet lumber? Please don’t insist that it is the end-all be-all in TS accident elimination because then you just may lull inexperienced owners into a false sense of security. Safety features are only as good as the operator, no matter what application, machine or industry. Safety features on machinery are designed to mitigate the POSSIBILITY of an accident, not 100% prevent them unless used properly. OSHA safety regulations are written in blood. They never get written until an accident or several push them in that direction. I have been associated with workplace safety for 35 years, and have been constantly amazed at the lengths that people go to, knowingly or otherwise and get around WRITTEN, POSTED and trained to, safety regs and safety equipment and get hurt, just by being dumb sh**s. Who knows, I may succumb to the hype one day and buy a SawStop, or be forced to buy one when the SawStop people get their way and get somebody to mandate it. Like I said in my original post, this is my personal opinion only, meant for me. This is America, make your own choice. Wear a helmet, wear a seatbelt, buy a SawStop. Or not. Have a great day and be safe. Sorry, I don’t own an Earlex finishing system either. Just an old fashioned Turbinaire HVLP.

-- Improvidus, Apto quod Victum-- Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

876 posts in 694 days


#123 posted 588 days ago

“Earlextech: Not completely true. A Sawstop will not prevent all table saw accidents.”

Try reading what Sam wrote, one more time…

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

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