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All Replies on Please save me from drinking the SawStop Kool-Aid

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Please save me from drinking the SawStop Kool-Aid

by gmaffPappy
posted 11-09-2012 02:02 PM


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123 replies

123 replies so far

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1811 days


#51 posted 11-09-2012 11:26 PM

Yep, there are a 1001 ways to hurt yourself in your shop, and those don’t include the ones that I haven’t personally discovered. I actively try to prevent those things from happening, but try as I might, I’m not always successful. But thankfully, many of those things are just little flesh wounds and annoyances.

There are three things that really worry me in the shop from a safety standpoint. 1.) Losing an eye, 2.) Getting pulled into a rotating cutter head, and 3.) losing a finger.

I’m saved from #1 because I wear safety glasses. I’m saved from #2 because I am bald and work only in a loin cloth (this is Texas). But I haven’t figured out how to truly prevent #3 yet with my existing tools.

I might go my entire life with my fingers in tact. But for me, it’s just additional peace of mind.

It reminds me of building a character in WoW. I have all these active spells and abilities that are acquired as I level up and do stuff. I have to learn how to use them with my keyboard short cuts and hope that I don’t kill myself. But there are all sorts of abilities that are just always ON, passive stuff that I’d surely miss if I didn’t have it.

To me, I’d love all my tools to have passive protections and I’d certainly pay for those extras.

Call me a rogue…level 85 Night Elf combat spec.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

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CessnaPilotBarry

890 posts in 763 days


#52 posted 11-10-2012 12:30 AM

Lumberjoe…

Have you seen this?

I hear Fruit of the Loom is going to sponsor a funny car. This is the second one this year! Me and a buddy usually do a bus to ETown every June.

Crazy stuff!

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View derosa's profile

derosa

1556 posts in 1488 days


#53 posted 11-10-2012 02:23 AM

My family all knows now to just get me gift cards to woodcraft which is local and sells sawstop. I’m figuring 2-3 years before I have enough collected to throw down on the 3hp 1800.00 unit and I hope by that time Delta will have come out with comparable or that sliders will have come down to my price range. That’s the only way I’m not getting a SS. The primary reason isn’t for myself either. I plan on letting my kids out there with me to help. I know there are no substitutes for education, repetition and eagle-eye oversight but one more mark in the favor of safety would be nice. I also hope by then that there is a bandsaw version and I won’t be letting my kids near the router.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

View mcase's profile

mcase

438 posts in 1782 days


#54 posted 11-10-2012 02:42 AM

You asked for a head to head. Well here it is: Sawstop Industrial v. Powermatic 66

Let me help you make your decision based upon real life experience. Lets put the safety feature aside and look at the Sawstop as a saw. Lets compare it head to head with the Powermatic 66. I’ve owned both the Powermatic 66 and the Industrial Sawstop and so I actually know what I’m talking about. There were some very serious shortcomings with the Powermatic 66 I purchased back in 2002. The table flatness was joke. I went over this saw with a Lee valley straight edge and its was off by a 1/32” corner to corner! Not only is the Sawstop table far more accurately machined it is also a full thirty inches deep. The 66 table is attached to the cabinet with three inboard bolts. That is you have to reach inside the cabinet to get at them (What Fun!). You adjust the 66 by loosening the bolts and shifting the table as best you can. Tighten it up, and of course it shifts. You get to loosen the bolts and try again and again. All table saws have this defect except the Sawstop. The Sawstop table is held in place by eight (yes 8!) outboard bolts and moves on a centered boss. The table has two set screws that allow you to dial it in to absolute zero. No more banging the table back and forth because the set screws hold the table in place while you tighten up the bolts. The wings on my 66 drooped and had to be laboriously shimmed. The wings on the Sawstop were true and needed no shimming. The miter slots of the 66 were not truly parallel to each other. This is a common defect on many saws. It causes any truly tight and accurately made crosscut sled to bind. The miter slots on the Sawstop are dead true to each other. The fence on the 66 moves under pressure on the end (see Fine Woodworking review) The Sawstop fence has been rated the most rigid. Pathetic quality control was evident in the tilt mechanism on my 66. The rack with the gear teeth was very crudely cast varying wildly between 5/8” to 3/4” and was not machined except for the teeth. It had concave milling but it was out of line with the worm by almost 1/4”. This meant that instead of the worm getting a full swipe contact with the gears it only caught the edge. All the wear was on one small point of the teeth, thus defeating the whole purpose of the concave machining. There was no fix. The rod that holds the gear runs through an iron block that has no adjustments. The tilt mechanism on the Sawstop is vastly superior to the 66. The rack is much, much, heavier than the 66 and its faithfully cast. Its precisely machined to a full 1 1/8” wide and wraps the larger worm dead center. As a result of the size and precision lavished on it, the tilt mechanism is as smooth as silk. The raising mechanism on the Sawstop is akin to the type employed on an ALtendorf. It works with a power assist gas piston and a massive steel post. It is also very smooth. Most importantly though, I was never satisfied with the run out and crude cuts the 66 produced. Before I sold it I ripped a piece of white oak with a Freud glue line rip blade and saved it. I took the same piece and the same blade and ripped the other side of the piece with a Sawstop industrial. The finish of the cut produced by the Sawstop was far, far smoother than the 66. The 66 has no riving knife. The Sawstop has a beautiful riving knife. Its heavily chromed. Even the cam faces on the handle that locks the riving knife are heavily chromed. The hand cranks are heavily chromed. There is no chrome wasted on the 66. The 66, along with other saws, access the interior with plastic cowlings (the 66 ‘s cowling is unbelievable flimsy and crude) The Sawstop has a hinged steel cowling with quality latch, as well as a quality steel door on the left also with a quality latch. And of course there is the matter of manuals. The spiral binding, color photos, and logical grammatical English of the Sawstop manual has no peer. And lets’ not forget about customer service. Sawstop people, (real people!), answer their phones starting at 6:00 am PST. This way they can answers calls from the east coast at 9:00 am EST. They have always answered for me by the third ring. Ask anyone about reaching Powermatic customer service! A half an hour on hold is standard. Oh! Yeah, I almost forgot, the Sawstop also has a fantastic safety feature too.

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oldnovice

3760 posts in 2020 days


#55 posted 11-10-2012 02:51 AM

mcase about sums it up!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

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Charlie

1017 posts in 939 days


#56 posted 11-10-2012 02:57 AM

OK, see THAT’s the kind of thing that makes sense to me. Because I never heard some of those features of the sawstop. It sounds from the above description that the sawstop is a standout as far as being a SAW and for THAT I could see paying a premium dollar (if I had any of those)

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moke

491 posts in 1429 days


#57 posted 11-10-2012 03:32 PM

For all of you that are trying to convince us there are other risks in life, I think we get it.

The simple fact is that additional safety should not be a deterant to adding other safety items around us…..Should we disable our air bags? Howabout taking the locks from our homes…..no… do what you can to insulate yourself when you can. I have worked as a policeman for well over thirty years….I wear my vest..it is hot, uncomfortable and restricts some movement that is nice sometimes to have. However, I have picked a sometimes dangerous profession to have, so I obviously believe in taking some chances. Likewise woodworking in general can also be dangerous. True, given a lapse in judgement usually, but I don’t know about you but I have had those lapses occasionally in my life. Given the facts mcase has given and
ALL the testimony it is in fact, a good, maybe great machine, add the saftey factor, I can’t imagine there is a jury, that given you have the money, this is a better choice.
Mike

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Jorge G.

1526 posts in 1128 days


#58 posted 11-10-2012 04:29 PM

If we depart from the idea that the best way to avoid an accident is to never get your hands close to the blade, then as Loren stated before a slider is a safer alternative. It provides for safer mitre or angled cuts, there is no need for a push stick (with the concurrent possibility of triggering the safety mechanism), there is no danger of kick back ( something that SS cannot avoid, a 3HP saw can give a hell of a kick back), panel cuts are easier unless you build an island around the SS, and the small models do not take much more room than a regular saw.

If you are going to compare among American style saws, then SawStop is hands down the winner, simply because of the safety feature. If you compare American style saws to the European style saws (e.i. the sliders) then IMO the sliders are a far better and safer choice. If you add a scoring blade to the slider the quality of cuts is far better than any Americans style saw, and you do not need a zero clearance port.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

View gmaffPappy's profile

gmaffPappy

13 posts in 684 days


#59 posted 11-11-2012 07:05 AM

Hey, thanks all. I was hoping the subject would get some interesting responses, but I never thought my first post would generate so many posts.

There have been a lot of great points made about the safety (machine, technique, and mindset.) All have been appreciated. I am grateful for all the opinions.

And HorizontalMike, I love the hang gliding pic. I’m a Dive Master, and I’m studying Tech Diving. Your 10k’ is my -300’. Some might think it’s dangerous or stupid, and if you don’t know what you’re doing, it is. But one can do those dangerous things (like hang gliding, diving, and woodworking) if you have the right mindset, training, and (just as importantly) the best, reliable, and correct tools for the job.

I completely agree with the seat belt analogy. If all was the same and the political issues are taken out of it, I’d buy the truck that has the seat belt, over the one that doesn’t. With that in mind, I’m pretty set on the SS, as is my wife. It’s seems a no-brainer.

That is, if it’s the better tool? From what I’m hearing so far, it is.

Mcase’s review was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the great comparison mcase.

Anyone able to compare and contrast a Jet and the SS?

And thanks again for helping me out with this decision.

-- If it's easy to do, you haven't spent enough time over engineering it.

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usnret

184 posts in 1161 days


#60 posted 11-11-2012 07:27 AM

I despise the tactics that SS has used trying to get the sensing technology mandatory on all saws. However with the way you make your living I think your fingers are pretty important to you. I currently have an old Craftsman that didnt even come with a blade guard when they were sold, you had to pay extra for it. I make my living ata computer as an engineer so when I have the money I will be buying a SS. As for the argument that you still have to worry about the bandsaw, drill press, circular saw, jointer, etc…. well you removed one hazard at least.

-- Chief Petty Officer USN(RET) 1991-2011

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Moron

4666 posts in 2546 days


#61 posted 11-11-2012 08:00 AM

save for having hands that look like lobster claws,……saw stop is a no brainer

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Woodsurgin

30 posts in 1264 days


#62 posted 11-11-2012 04:33 PM

The SawStop is a great saw, great technology. I am concerned that using this saw could make me think I am safer than I actually am. I need to realize all the time there are no truly safe tools in my shop and to maintain a healthy caution for that fact. Scott Phillips has given what I think is great advice in not having the saw blade over a quarter-inch above the wood.
What happens in the instance of sawing wood with the safety turned off? You have eliminated the safety feature.
You will always have to change your assumptions about safety whenever you defeat the safety on this saw.
What happens when the first person cuts a finger off while cutting with the safety off? Will we then no longer be able to cut green or treated wood?
I prefer the Delta Unisaw with its smooth adjustments and other features. I like the greater distance from the front of the table to the blade.

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itsmic

1419 posts in 1771 days


#63 posted 11-11-2012 04:51 PM

Do saw stops eliminate kick back or other diasters with wood breaking, being thrown, or splinterd. What percent of safety in the shop is covered by having a saw stop saw. Does having some device claiming ultimate safety some how tend to make one let his guard down. Just questions, not pro or con

-- It's Mic Keep working and sharing

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Woodsurgin

30 posts in 1264 days


#64 posted 11-11-2012 04:59 PM

I should mention that my worst tablesaw injury was not from getting cut, but from kickback.
I do think the riving knife was one of the most significant advances in tablesaw safety.

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AlanBienlein

141 posts in 1327 days


#65 posted 11-11-2012 05:13 PM

Hers my take on this. GET THE SAWSTOP! End of story.

Why would you want to reward ANY manufacturer that isn’t willing to be innovative with there products?

I applaud Steve Gass for trying to mandate flesh sensing technology. It would force the other manufactures to get off there LAZY BUTS and develop something that could possibly be better than the SawStop!

Do you all who bash Steve Gass for his so called business practices realize you wouldn’t have the choice in saws you have now with riving knives if it wasn’t for the government mandating them. Well the same could happen with this technology. They aren’t trying to mandate SawStops specific type of flesh sensing technology. They were trying to get it where saws have some type of flesh sensing technology.

We can go on and on about other hazards in the work shop ( blah blah blah ) and in life in general but why not take the extra step in safety if it’s available to you. I’ve had to search for and pick up to many fingers in my 30 plus years of wood working from accidents on the table saws and to date haven’t had to do that for the other machines in the shops I’ve worked in.

As for sliders being safer and no worry of kickback well your a FOOL to believe that. I’ve seen whole sheets of plywood get thrown back just because someone wanted to make a quick cut and didn’t bother to clamp it down. I’ve also seen where they cut themselves on the scoring blades because the gaurd doesn’t extend that far on alot of the sliders I’ve been around such as Altendorf, Holz-Her and SCMI.

As of right now I don’t own a SawStop but when I do upgrade It will be to a SawStop no questions asked.

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Jorge G.

1526 posts in 1128 days


#66 posted 11-11-2012 05:23 PM

no worry of kickback well your a FOOL to believe that. I’ve seen whole sheets of plywood get thrown back just because someone wanted to make a quick cut and didn’t bother to clamp it down.

I am sure the day will come when someone disables the SS safety, forgets about it and then cuts his finger. Being stupid is not the machine’s fault.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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JJohnston

1577 posts in 1944 days


#67 posted 11-11-2012 05:48 PM

Okay, we get that SawStop won’t stop a kickback. So, get a Powermatic, which will. Wait….

-- "Sorry I'm late. Somebody tampered with my brakes." "You should have been early, then."

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AlanBienlein

141 posts in 1327 days


#68 posted 11-11-2012 05:52 PM

I am sure the day will come when someone disables the SS safety, forgets about it and then cuts his finger. Being stupid is not the machine’s fault.

Can’t argue that point about being stupid!

I’m curious as to haw many of you turn the saw off after each cut and how many leave it running?

Reason I ask is the only way to leave it disabled is to leave the saw running. Every time you turn off the saw it resets the safety device.

And to the op one of the guys whose fingers and thunb I had to hunt down use to play guitar in a band. He no longer plays guitar because of this.

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Jorge G.

1526 posts in 1128 days


#69 posted 11-11-2012 07:23 PM

I’m curious as to haw many of you turn the saw off after each cut and how many leave it running?

I have been known to do just this, but then I work by myself. When I hire an assistant I always turn it off even if I just have to reach for another piece that is a few feet away.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

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Richard

400 posts in 1344 days


#70 posted 11-11-2012 07:32 PM

I’m staying out to the SS debate, I can see merit is both arguments pro and con.

That said, to answer AlanBienlein, I leave my saw running when doing repetitive cuts, but I always have things staged and ready to go.

-- "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

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Loren

7550 posts in 2300 days


#71 posted 11-11-2012 07:43 PM

If you don’t want kickback, use a power feeder when ripping.

If you don’t want danger when cutting 4×8 panels, build or
buy a panel saw.

A slider is safer in crosscutting than a miter gauge to some
extent, but more importantly the sliding table makes
managing cuts more predictable and well-supported. It
also generally enables placing the hands further from the
blade when guiding the work. In terms of ripping with
a fence, a slider works the same as an American style
saw and the way to make ripping safest is to use a
feeder.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

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pierce85

508 posts in 1215 days


#72 posted 11-11-2012 09:15 PM

I’m quite leery about getting a SawStop for the following 10 reasons:

1. The government has no right telling me what to do. Wait. . . .what?
2. SawStop has a major design flaw in that it does not prevent kickback.
3. SawStop will not prevent me from injurying myself when using my bandsaw, jointer, planer, hammer, or push stick, so why would I bother buying a tablesaw that helps prevent tablesaw injuries? Duh!
4. SawStop does nothing to prevent me from choking on my food when I’m shoveling it down my gullet and, thus, is unsafe.
5. After getting accustomed to the extra safety SawStop provides, I would likely take safety for granted in all areas of my life and, for example, drive down city streets at 80 MPH with my head out the window yelling “Stop this SawStop!”
6. SawStop may push me toward having wild, unprotected sex. . . . just kidding. I couldn’t get laid even if I had Steve Gass’s money.
7. Having a SawStop would suggest that I’m dumb because only stupid people get injured. Wait. . . .what?
8. The use of Sawstop across our great nation will cost the healthcare industry millions of dollars per year – injuries provide jobs and I will not take part in someone’s unemployment.
9. I don’t play the guitar.
10. This is one tool I could never hide from my wife.

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gmaffPappy

13 posts in 684 days


#73 posted 11-11-2012 09:36 PM

LOL!

I’ve been kind of irritated with all the politics…until I realized your post was a joke. Very Nice pierce85!

-- If it's easy to do, you haven't spent enough time over engineering it.

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itsmic

1419 posts in 1771 days


#74 posted 11-11-2012 11:52 PM

pierce, without a doubt, “the best responce” what a riot

-- It's Mic Keep working and sharing

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RipFence

28 posts in 1346 days


#75 posted 11-12-2012 02:03 AM

As I was sitting in the ER recently I said to myself I would buy a SS. Afterwards when I had time to calm down I was trying to talk myself out of it and wanted to keep the Uni. One of my students, who had been successful cabinet maker, showed me his altered thumb. He said every woodworker he knows who has been at it for a while has something missing. That ended my denial and I ponied up for the purchase.
For what its worth, its a really nice saw and probably better than my 57 Uni.
Good luck,
Jim

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NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1229 days


#76 posted 11-12-2012 04:21 AM

Pierce, that was a funny post aside from #2.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

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HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1567 days


#77 posted 11-12-2012 01:51 PM

With all of this doom and gloom from the SS troops, may I remind everyone:

NOT one of us will get out of this life alive.

  • If you have driven a car long enough, you will be involved in an accident.
  • If you live long enough, you WILL become sick.
  • NOT owning a SawStop, does NOT guarantee that you will cut off your finger.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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itsmic

1419 posts in 1771 days


#78 posted 11-12-2012 03:01 PM

People want a good reason to feel OK about major Mess Up’s, swallow Your pride, learn Your lesson, and work with confidence and safety, dreaming of a world without danger is for the dreamers, let’s make dust

-- It's Mic Keep working and sharing

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Straightbowed

717 posts in 951 days


#79 posted 11-12-2012 10:27 PM

well if you dont cut your fingers on the saw you may smash them in the car door, whats meant to be is meant to be, but the sawstop is a great lookin saw like the lines but I would love to have a POWERMATIC they have great looks I have a 1023 ITS SERVES ME WELL AND i HAVE SOME NICE BIG PUSHSTICKS

-- Stevo, work in tha city woodshop in the country

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Straightbowed

717 posts in 951 days


#80 posted 11-12-2012 10:30 PM

GONNA CUT SOME DOVETAILS WITH MY CHAINSAW C U GUYS LATER

-- Stevo, work in tha city woodshop in the country

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pierce85

508 posts in 1215 days


#81 posted 11-12-2012 11:05 PM

NOT owning a SawStop, does NOT guarantee that you will cut off your finger.

And NOT wearing your seatbelt does NOT guarantee that you will die or be injured in a car accident…

Seriously Mike, who ever said that if you DON’T own a SawStop, you are guaranteed to cut off your finger? These red herrings are really getting bizarre.

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Woodbridge

2717 posts in 1071 days


#82 posted 11-12-2012 11:26 PM

I think your wife would tell you to forget about saving the money and buy the SawStop. I couldn’t imagine buying any other tablesaw at this point.

-- Peter, Woodbridge, Ontario

View BuckI's profile

BuckI

49 posts in 1801 days


#83 posted 11-13-2012 12:04 AM

I just bought a SawStop a couple of weeks ago. The 3HP, 36 inch T-Glide fence, Professional, industrial base (they delivered the wrong one and said it was their mistake so I only paid for the professional base), dust collection for above the table.

That being said, my first was a hand me down Delta table top-not sure why they make them that flimsy, more dangerous than any tool I have owned. I upgraded to a Delta Contractor, then a 3HP Steel City Cabinet, then to the SawStop. It is together now, and it is amazing the difference in how well that thing is put together. It feels so much more solid than the other saws I have owned and was tuned to within .001” out of the box, measured with a dial indicator. Fence was straight, flat and parallel to miter slot, and absolutely no runout on the flange or arbor shaft. The only two things I will note is the motor cover is plastic, the SC was steel. The faces of the fence are phenolic plywood, rather than solid phenolic (don’t know if that is better or not yet). The SC has a very nice feature on the fence over the SawStop, a bolt with a phenolic bottom that would glide the back of the fence along the back rail-that I will miss, but then again the SawStop table, extensions and table board are so flat the fence does not catch on any seams-pretty amazing to me. These are extremely small observations, and they are not intended to give anyone pause who might be considering a SS. The only other saw I would have considered was the Delta Unisaw, but I have read too many problems people have with not the saw, but customer service with Delta I decided to pass. SawStop CS was over the top helpful with all of my questions and led me to believe they will be around for a long time based on my experience with them. The bottom line is that I would buy it again without the safety feature, because the saw itself is that impressive. The brake is just one more reason to own one.

-- Kevin, Ohio

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1811 days


#84 posted 11-13-2012 12:14 AM

You forgot number 11, Pierce…

Despite the effectiveness of the Sawstop on wieners, I am leery about pushing wood with my wiener.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

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David Craig

2135 posts in 1761 days


#85 posted 11-13-2012 12:43 AM

Unfortunately, the point gets lost by folks taking a comment, taking it to the extreme for ridicule. I think that all commentators believe that safety is a concern in the shop, that any product that can make things safer is a good thing. I think the contention is that there is a tendency to place more liability on the producer of a machine in which injuries occur because of failure to utilize current safeguards or severe indiscretions of the operator of the machine. I believe that was the point attempted to be raised. The lawsuit in which sawstop technology was pressured on manufacturers to adopt was based on poor judgement on the operator of the machine and I personally have felt that too much liability was put on the manufacturer at the time instead of the folks that were truly responsible for the injury in question. Folks can come up with their own opinion on that one.

Otherwise, I feel that most of the comments about SS is not about ridiculous rants against safety, just a reminder that all equipment requires the operator to use their equipment wisely and that no safety device can protect an operator from indiscretion. That is all. If you have the means, definitely purchase a saw with as many safety features as one can afford.

-- There is little that is simple when it comes to making a simple box.

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HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1567 days


#86 posted 11-13-2012 03:51 PM

David: ”...If you have the means, definitely purchase a saw with as many safety features as one can afford….”

While I would not go that far, I would say USE what safety features you can on all of your tools, even if not standard/OEM equipment.

I notice that the neither the SawStop, nor my G0690 for that matter, comes with featherboard technology when making cuts that require the removal of the traditional splitter. I made the decision early on to add Board Buddies style featherboards to my fence so that I would have THAT technology at all times. And Board Buddies DID NOT double the price of my TS.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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Woodsurgin

30 posts in 1264 days


#87 posted 11-15-2012 05:07 PM

In the great quest to save fingers, I think it important to not overlook other ways one can get injured.
I use an insert with minimal clearance most of the time except when cutting on an angle. If you just use one angle, this minimal clearance will work. Too many angle changes and you destroy the insert. It is worth considering a minimal clearance insert for each angle.
I find I am most concerned about kickback. I use a GripTite magnetic outfit with one plastic finger against the board, and if the board is not too thick, one that goes over the top of it as a hold down. The GripTite constantly reminds me where the blade is and gives kickback protection. I fear things flying off the saw table just as much as saving fingers. GripTite recommends using two, but I have gotten along fine with just one. I use it on my bandsaw Laguna 14 bandsaw too.
I still remember Scott Phillip’s advice to not have the saw blade very much above the board you are cutting. Yes, more blade is in contact with the wood, but it is a good tradeoff.
I still am hoping to replace my ancient but updated Craftsman table saw with a new Delta Unisaw. I especially like the extra distance from the front of the saw to the blade. I have fiddled with the adjustments at the local Woodcraft and found the Unisaw by far is the easiest of all to adjust. As the Japanese say, this saw has good “Kansei”.

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stevenmadden

174 posts in 1742 days


#88 posted 11-15-2012 06:41 PM

I used to get riled up reading all this political crap regarding the SawStop and its inventor, now I read it for the entertainment value. pierce85 gets my vote for most entertaining, although some who responded with reasons for not buying the SawStop based on their feelings about the government or the inventors tactics were entertaining too.

gmaffPappy: For what it’s worth, I have owned my SawStop Industrial Cabinet Saw for a few years now and it is by far one of the best, if not the best, cabinet saws on the market today (notwithstanding the blade breaking technology). In my opinion, people who argue against the purchase of a SawStop by citing political reasons or their dislike of its inventor are just pissing in the wind. In the end, common sense wins (for most). Good luck with your decision.

Steven

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CharlesNeil

1127 posts in 2523 days


#89 posted 11-15-2012 09:09 PM

got his email the other day, Your call

I run a small business in O’Neill Nebraska. It has nothing to do with
woodworking but I’ve always dreamed of crafting things from wood. As a part
of our business (hay mower parts) we sell pitman sticks and I decided rather
then buy them from a supplier I would invest in some tools and fabricate and
sell them as an extension of our parts business. I have been pleased with
the results and have truely enjoyed the experience. Besides, the pitman
sticks pay for my tools and I get to build other stuff for the pure joy of
it! During my planning (early 2011) I knew I would need a quality table saw
and was shopping the usual brands. I had pretty much decided on buying a
Delta. It just so happened that about that time I ran across your video
that featured the Saw Stop. I was quite impressed, however the price seemed
a bit high. I gave it considerable thought and came to the conlusion that
since I had never used a table saw before it would be prudent to spend the
extra money and buy the Saw Stop.

I picked up my saw in April 2011. I’ve been using it ever since and it’s
all you said it was. This morning, I was cutting a rabit in a small piece
of hickory with the dado blade and the piece kicked. When it kicked I
tripped the saw. I have no idea how serious the results could have been
because it happened so fast. What I do know is that I have a band aid on
the pointer finger of my left hand and a mangled stop cartridge. I just
wanted to say that your video probably saved my left hand. I think this
morning that saw just paid for itself. My next email is to Saw Stop!

With a very heart felt thank you, God bless you and your video!

Kevin S.


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View Newage Neanderthal's profile

Newage Neanderthal

190 posts in 1203 days


#90 posted 11-15-2012 10:29 PM

All of my hand saws have flesh sensing technology in the motor, as soon as it senses flesh, its stops pushing the saw.

-- www.newageneanderthal.blogspot.com . @NANeanderthal on twitter

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1567 days


#91 posted 11-15-2012 11:00 PM

Please understand that the OP ASKED/PLEADED for reasons NOT to go with SawStop. The SS Troops still attacked in full force, regardless of the OP’s request. Why am I not surprised… Geez folks, pay attention!

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TheCook's profile

TheCook

39 posts in 773 days


#92 posted 11-15-2012 11:17 PM

Please understand that the OP ASKED/PLEADED for reasons NOT to go with SawStop. The SS Troops still attacked in full force, regardless of the OP’s request. Why am I not surprised… Geez folks, pay attention!

Huh? All I’m reading here are a bunch of people saying they like their saw stop and a handful of people saying a saw stop is garbage because it doesn’t protect you from things like forest fires.

View Mark Smith's profile

Mark Smith

497 posts in 693 days


#93 posted 11-15-2012 11:30 PM

There are already 92 replies on here when I am chiming in so I’m not going through all of them so I apologize if this was already covered. I bought the SawStop and here’s why. I’m in California and I wanted to open a commerical shop. California is attempting to pass a law right now requiring the blade safety feature on every tablesaw sold in the State or used in a commercial facility. Now it’s not law yet, and if it does become law and you don’t have a SawStop your older saw will be grandfathered in, but as with any of the safety laws there are things that can trigger new requirements. For example if I moved my shop and the law was passed I may find that I can’t use the saw without the blade safety in the new shop. If I expand and want to hire employees it is very likely that to get workers comp insurance you may have to have a table saw with a blade safety. So to me, I was looking to the future and just went ahead and got it. And it’s a very nice saw, I really like it.

And if California is going to regulate it you know a lot of other states will follow. As a side note, I was just have this discussion with a guy at a place down the road where I just bought a jointer. It’s also where I bought my SawStop. We were talking about running your fingers through the jointer. He showed me scars on his fingers where he lost the tips. Turned out it wasn’t a jointer at all, but a table saw accident. And this was a guy who worked in a cabinet shop for 30 years. I was in Hawaii a couple of months ago and stopped in a woodshop there to look around. The owner of the place had a huge bandage on his hand. Yup, ran then hand through the table saw. So although the best way to avoid injury is just don’t run your fingers through the blade, even some of the most skilled of people have done it.

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1215 days


#94 posted 11-16-2012 12:11 AM

TheCook – ”and a handful of people saying a saw stop is garbage because it doesn’t protect you from things like forest fires.”

LOL!

View gmaffPappy's profile

gmaffPappy

13 posts in 684 days


#95 posted 11-16-2012 06:14 PM

I thank you all for your input. The discussion has been interesting, fun, and informative. But the clock has run its time, the bell has rung, and all fighter are directed to their corners.

The decision is in! In the black and red shorts, weighing in at 426 lbs, it’s the 3hp Professional SawStop with 36” Rails.

I will be going to purchase and pick up this new table saw as soon as I’ve finished cleaning the garage.

Stay tuned! Pics and a review will follow. Then I’ll find out how well that Kool-Aid stays down.

Again, thanks to everyone!

-- If it's easy to do, you haven't spent enough time over engineering it.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1567 days


#96 posted 11-16-2012 10:18 PM

Amazing…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TheCook's profile

TheCook

39 posts in 773 days


#97 posted 11-16-2012 10:21 PM

Amazing…

Yep. What next? People buying these new-fangled horseless carriages…

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1567 days


#98 posted 11-16-2012 10:35 PM

With whips no less…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

890 posts in 763 days


#99 posted 11-17-2012 12:58 AM

“I notice that the neither the SawStop, nor my G0690 for that matter, comes with featherboard technology when making cuts that require the removal of the traditional splitter.”

With a riving knife, there aren’t any cuts that require it’s removal. None!

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1567 days


#100 posted 11-17-2012 01:08 AM

Barry,
The traditional splitter has overhead kickback pawls setup/system. I do not use the traditional splitter. I use only the riving knife IN PLACE OF the traditional splitter. And in that case one needs to use something else to act as the featherboard in order to have a complete system of safety. The Board Buddies provide that protection without having the overhead Pawls system.

And in the sense of using a “riving knife”, you are correct that nothing requires the riving knife’s removal. I was talking about the featherboard technology and NOT the riving knife. Sorry for the confusion.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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