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All Replies on Please save me from drinking the SawStop Kool-Aid

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View gmaffPappy's profile

Please save me from drinking the SawStop Kool-Aid

by gmaffPappy
posted 11-09-2012 02:02 PM


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123 replies

123 replies so far

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112103 posts in 2234 days


#1 posted 11-09-2012 02:13 PM

I agree “save the money” buy a Saw Stop and save the cost and pain of hand surgery and possible end of guitar playing. My 2 cents.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1815 days


#2 posted 11-09-2012 02:22 PM

I agree. I currently do not see a reason to purchase a Powermatic or Delta cabinet saw if the Sawstop is the same price. Those saws have no advantages over the Sawstop. Basically, it’s like getting the safety feature for free.

I hate the politics of all that, and I suppose if I were more idealistic in that regard (e.g. as full of piss and vinegar as I used to be) then I would be leading the boycott. But until there are similar safety devices on other saws, my next saw will be a Sawstop…and BTW I own a 3HP Delta Unisaw.

We all try to be safe in the shop, which is most important because we want to avoid catastrophes. But it’s the things we DON’T foresee that can cause the loss of a digit(s). For that reason, I’d love the extra layer of protection that such technology provides.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View bunkie's profile

bunkie

411 posts in 1804 days


#3 posted 11-09-2012 02:45 PM

As a fellow guitarist and IT person, my next saw will be a SawStop. I currently have a Grizzley 1023 which is a great saw, powerful, accurate and well-made.

I’m thinking about a coast-to-coast relocation and will probably sell the Grizzley rather than pay to move it. That would make room for the SawStop.

I think that once you get into the decent-quality cabinet saws, the quality differences start to shrink as per the law of diminishing returns. Having said that, by all accounts the SawStop is a quality saw that is worth the money.

Regarding the politics, what matters most? A political stance or keeping all ten of your fingers? That’s a personal question that is up to each of us.

-- Altruism is, ultimately, self-serving

View 47phord's profile

47phord

175 posts in 894 days


#4 posted 11-09-2012 02:56 PM

Reading your post, it sounds like you’ve already decided to buy the SawStop and are currently trying to second-guess yourself with this posting. If you’ve already read all the reviews and done your homework like you say, go with your gut and buy the SS.

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1289 days


#5 posted 11-09-2012 02:57 PM

If I were buying a cabinet saw, I can’t think of reason to avoid a SS. I’ve never heard any gripe about their performance. The cost among the cabinet saws is pretty comparable. Its the entry/mid level saws that would become less-affordable if SS tech were legally mandated. I’d personally pay a small additional percentage for a SS cabinet saw – all else being equal. But I wouldn’t want to pay an additional $300 for an entry-level Ryobi saw that has licensed SS technology.

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

893 posts in 2270 days


#6 posted 11-09-2012 02:58 PM

The very best safety device in your shop is right between your ears!

You know, I am one of those voices you hear against SawStop in LJ’s. But I have obviously not made myself clear. I have nothing against SawStop technology. I design sensors for a living. I understand the technology behind SawStop and I think it probably works very well. And they have every right to be successful selling their saws in competition with every other saw manufacturer. More power to them! (is there a pun in there?)

But I take exception to lobbying for a government mandate to force people to buy SawStop technology!

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

View ChrisK's profile

ChrisK

1149 posts in 1738 days


#7 posted 11-09-2012 03:22 PM

SawStop saws have a lot going for them and you can bypass the safety if you are cutting wet wood or think you might hit a staple. The whole saw is first rate. I look at them every time I am in Peachtree Woodworker’s store in Norcross.

-- Chris K

View yrob's profile

yrob

340 posts in 2309 days


#8 posted 11-09-2012 03:27 PM

The cost of a ss cabinet saw is on par with the other top saws. I am not a pro cabinet maker but all those i know switched to ss when it was time to replace their equipment.

look at the woodworkers who are on tv like tommy mc , they also did.

i do not see why one would want to not have a ss when its available at a similar price and quality than the delta’s or the likes.

-- Yves

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1571 days


#9 posted 11-09-2012 03:40 PM

Devil’s advocate here…
How is buying a SawStop Tablesaw going to “save” you from cutting your digits off with your Bandsaw, or chewing your digits off with either your Jointer or your Planer?

To narrow this whole safety issue down to “just a tablesaw thing” sounds way too ingenuine as a standalone argument for your well being. If your other hobbies and profession are that critical to you then you need to truly sit down and come to a well thought out decision as to either BE or NOT BE into woodworking, at all.

Yeah, I know this is a strong statement, but I do think that many, many folks truly need to have that discussion with themselves. My 2-cents…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TheCook's profile

TheCook

39 posts in 777 days


#10 posted 11-09-2012 03:40 PM

Nobody ever went to their grave wishing they had fewer fingers.

View Loren's profile

Loren

7567 posts in 2305 days


#11 posted 11-09-2012 03:45 PM

Try out a slider.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View dbhost's profile

dbhost

5385 posts in 1889 days


#12 posted 11-09-2012 04:08 PM

A couple of points.

#1. I have stated this clearly and without hesitation here and elsewhere but it bears repeating. I 100% despise the SawStop inventors business tactics of using Government and the courts to push his invention. #2. The blade brake on the SawStop table saw does nothing to protect you when it is turned off when you are cutting green / wet woods like pressure treated. #3. The blade brake does nothing to protect you on the miter saw, band saw, lathe, jointer etc…

Having said that, I do know from what I have seen, and heard, seeing a Sawstop first hand, they are every bit as well made as a UniSaw, or a Powermatic. I don’t particularly care for how short they are, but then again, I can make that complaint about most table saws. I have back issues and I hate to have to stoop for anything.

The cabinet saw version, has excellent dust collection, great mass, wonderfully flat true and smooth top, great fence, silky smooth elevation and tilt. It is a top notch saw for sure.

To be blunt, I love my little cheapie Ryobi BT3100. I know folks will fuss at me about it, but it has been a great saw. But I know it is going to eventually die. When it does, I hope to have the funds to replace it with a SawStop 3HP PCS. I will put it up on a 4” riser to reduce my stooping, and call it good!

Now having said that, if Grizzly were to come out with something that did the same sort of thing, in a saw similar to the G0691 for example, or say a Delta Unisaw 3HP with blade brake tech, and marketed it at a reasonable price, there is no way I would spend a dime with SawStop due to their business practices.

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

View Greg..the Cajun  Box Sculptor's profile

Greg..the Cajun Box Sculptor

5109 posts in 1965 days


#13 posted 11-09-2012 04:14 PM

It makes basic common sense to be as safe as possible …using common sense, caution, your brain and the most safe tools possible are a no brainer. The weakest link in this chain can cause an accident and the saw with the most safety features such as the Saw Stop will be a strong link. Common sense, focus, concentration and caution are free…only the saw stop costs money. You should go for the Saw Stop. I can not imagine why you would regret buying it…especially since it is quality.

-- If retiring is having the time to be able to do what you enjoy then I have always been retired.

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3790 posts in 2320 days


#14 posted 11-09-2012 04:14 PM

I bought a SawStop PCS when I moved into my new shop 6 months ago. With 2 grandsons spending some time in the shop, the brake/safety mechanism was a major factor in making the decision to purchase, but since then, I have come to really appreciate the engineering and quality of the saw.

—Gerry

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Domer's profile

Domer

248 posts in 2023 days


#15 posted 11-09-2012 04:18 PM

There is a reason that Saw Stop is the best selling cabinet table saw. It is top quality machine with the addition of a great safety feature.

It is more expensive but a great saw.

Dlomer

View David Craig's profile

David Craig

2135 posts in 1765 days


#16 posted 11-09-2012 04:35 PM

I wouldn’t dissuade anyone from purchasing a SS if the resources were available to them. I am opposed to the business practices, as others already mentioned. I do want to mention that much of my angst has to do with the comment made by ChrisK, #7 (No offense Chris your comment about the bypass is the focal point, not your comments personally). Bypassing the safety mechanism for fear of triggering the safety unnecessarily is the same as removing the splitter, or the blade guard, or the riving knife, or any other safety mechanism on another saw. Most of the accidents that brought this matter to the government involved the removing of safety features that are already pre-existent on other saws. Note that I say “most” as I am aware that safety features are not 100% guaranteed to stop an accident. But, in the case of the Ryobi saw, where the company was found at fault for not having this technology, the bladeguard and splitter were removed from the saw and a dangerous cut was performed. To me, the ability to bypass the safety switch makes sawstop no different than any other saw that is also compromised. If you have the money for the SS, definitely go for it. But, if you ever bypass the safety sensor, then you are automatically putting yourself at risk and defeating the purpose of the saw.

My two cents,

David

-- There is little that is simple when it comes to making a simple box.

View Earlextech's profile

Earlextech

979 posts in 1347 days


#17 posted 11-09-2012 04:35 PM

Currently the price of a finger is between $37,500 and $50,000. You decide.

-- Sam Hamory - The project is never finished until its "finished"!

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1017 posts in 943 days


#18 posted 11-09-2012 04:43 PM

You guys must have way more money than me. :)
I just looked at pricing for a Sawstop professional cabinet saw with a 30” fence. $2300.
My table saw, jointer, planer, band saw, DC and drill press don’t add up to that. ($1800)

I know some folks are passionate about the SawStop and if it’s a great saw, and you have that kind of disposable cash, then by all means I’d say go for it.

I also agree that the table saw is NOT the only dangerous thing in a work shop full of power tools and equipment. And any one of the OTHER power tools can mangle you up pretty bad.

I think a lot of this comes down to “what’s important to you?”
There are LOTS and lots and lots of long-time woodworkers that have all of their fingers.
My saw, while nowhere NEAR the high end, is still a really good saw. It cuts true, stays adjusted, has a very high degree of repeatability, and runs smooth and quiet. In other words, it does what a table saw is expected to do.
It does NOT know whether it’s cutting wood or fingers though. I kind of assumed that’s MY job.

Now before you crucify me, I’ll say that IF I had a $2300 budget JUST for a table saw, I’d probably get the saw stop because it IS a safer saw, AND it looks like a high quality piece of equipment, but I can’t do everything on a table saw. I needed other stuff too.

I would LOVE to be able to afford a bigger jointer, a bigger planer, hell a bigger SHOP, but…. I have limits that I need to respect. And one of those is budget.

So again… I think it comes back to “What’s important to you?” And don’t blow smoke up my butt and tell me it’s your fingers. With all of the other things you do as a woodworker, that tablesaw is only a very small percentage of your risk. Use your head. Stay focused on what you’re doing and prepare your workspace to be as safe as possible. But if you’re going to COUNT ON someone else stopping the saw for you because you ran your hand into it, you probably should take up piano or something.

Not trying to be a jerk, but….. well… I guess I’m a jerk. :)
AND… everyone’s entitled to spend their money however they choose. :)

View Uncle_Salty's profile

Uncle_Salty

182 posts in 1730 days


#19 posted 11-09-2012 04:47 PM

A couple of thoughts here:

I teach school and have a Saw Stop and a Unisaw (with a Biesmeyer Fence). I also have a Ridgid 4512 at home. The Saw Stop is at the very least the equal of the Unisaw in all areas and categories. The only thing that I have not done on the saw stop at this point is set up the dado stack. This requires a different throat (I could make them… but haven’t) plate, and a far different setup for the brake cartridge. I bought a very good Freud Stack Dado Set last year (8”), and I use it on the Unisaw. The Saw Stop gets used only for ripping and cross cutting.

The safety concerns of having student using the table saw convinced me and the school board to invest in the Saw Stop. I have had one cartridge discharge to date: A special needs student that violated a safety rule. He didn’t get his finger/hand into the blade or riving knife. He was using the aluminum taper jig and pulled it back before the table saw had come to a complete stop. It got into the blade. This caused a trigger. Fortunately, it didn’t send the jig back into his face. Needless to say, this individual isn’t using many stationary power tools these days.

What HorizontalMike said is correct about other tools causing similar/same damage. However, the table saw seems to be a far larger contributor to shop accidents than the other tools he listed.

Roll the dice and get the saw. You won’t regret it. Ever.

View bunkie's profile

bunkie

411 posts in 1804 days


#20 posted 11-09-2012 04:47 PM

While I certainly appreciate (and strongly practice) the argument that safety is a function of your mind, I do appreciate any extra edge I can get in preserving life and limb.

I do find the argument that SS technology won’t protect against bandsaw, jointer or mitre saw accidents to be a little silly. I don’t expect the anti-lock brakes on my car to protect me when I’m riding my motorcycle and I certainly wouldn’t expect my table saw safety feature to protect me from a bandsaw injury.

-- Altruism is, ultimately, self-serving

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1571 days


#21 posted 11-09-2012 04:48 PM

Loren +10
dbhost’s point +10
David’s point +10

Currently I am waving a single $50,000 in Steve Gass’ direction, because of his greed.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1815 days


#22 posted 11-09-2012 04:52 PM

Your devilish point is valid, Mike. But, a.) I consider the table saw a more dangerous piece of equipment and b.) I will always use the table saw MUCH more than other devices.

My point is simply that if you plan on spending $3200 for a saw all else being equal, you might as well give yourself the passive protection provided by such technology along WITH the active protection of smart and safe usage.

If I can have both, I will feel much better about that.

But yeah, I’m not in a hurry to upgrade. I’m a school teacher…money isn’t growing on any trees that I can see. ;)

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View David Craig's profile

David Craig

2135 posts in 1765 days


#23 posted 11-09-2012 04:54 PM

I don’t think Mike was suggesting that SS should be responsible for the other tools. I think what some of us get tired of is the hoopla that makes it appear that one safety device will end the threat of shop accidents forever. Obviously, that is not the case. Most of the opinions on this are not by fellow shop workers but those that have opinions about what is best for the woodworker that never stepped foot in a shop or used a power tool.

This is not saying that the SS is not a wise investment. It is brilliant technology. But we should always remind ourselves that safety begins with the woodworker. It is beneficial to have a tool that can respond when we are not at our game, but the mindset will need to be there for every tool.

-- There is little that is simple when it comes to making a simple box.

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2833 posts in 905 days


#24 posted 11-09-2012 04:56 PM

Or you just not use you hands to push wood through a blade in the first place:

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View moke's profile

moke

495 posts in 1433 days


#25 posted 11-09-2012 05:00 PM

I also have a SS PCS. I have had it now for a couple of years. It is in my opinion the best tool I have in the shop. I would also higly advise if you have room to get the 52”. It is awesome if you work with plywood.

I really don’t care about their politics. I just know I like it. With all the things going on in this world politically, our tables saws pale in comparison. Aside from the saftey, I don’t know as it is any better than the PM, in fact I think I like the PM fence better, but they are certainly so close in quality, I would choose the SS again in heartbeat. I have the wheels and have rigged the outfeed table to be easily detached. It all is awesome. But, I also agree that a dado is a PITA!

Having said that, as it was previously mentioned, you have many other tools that would do worse thing to your body than a TS….can you imagine putting your fingers in a Helical Jointer? Also, as mentioned safety is between your ears, but this will be a little “island” of saftey in your shop, one place where you are a little safer.

Earlextech sited some dollar amounts for med bills. I have a friend that cut a couple of fingers off and it was double that, his out of pocket was 9,000. How many sawstops will that buy?
Just my .02
Mike aka Moke

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1571 days


#26 posted 11-09-2012 05:03 PM

If additional safety devices are truly needed for the TS then I would prefer something like Whirlwind Technology. At least with the Whirlwind, it doesn’t repeatedly cost you $200 for blade and cartridge when the “emergency stop” is caused by green wood or an errant maneuver of a jig.

A non-destructive emergency blade-stopping mechanism will probably NOT be switched “Off” as often as the safety mechanism on a SawStop, IMO. That alone makes Whirlwind safer, in my opinion as well.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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Ripthorn

759 posts in 1642 days


#27 posted 11-09-2012 05:18 PM

I have used the SS a decent amount and would love to get one when funds permit. I also play guitar and do a lot on the computer. The SS is top quality. The way I see it is that the SS is like a fine automobile with seat belts (or airbags). The jointer, planer, BS, etc. are like other automobiles without seat belts. I don’t think anyone would say that seat belts are useless and purely politically motivated. If I have the chance to drive a fine car with seat belts as opposed to one without, I will go with the one that has seat belts because, while I may be a safe driver and try to be aware of potential dangers, accidents do happen, and in the event that one does, I want that protection. I hope to never use it, but if I need it, I would rather have it than not.

-- Brian T. - Exact science is not an exact science

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NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1233 days


#28 posted 11-09-2012 05:24 PM

One more vote for the sawstop.
Aside from the blade brake, you’ll have a world class tablesaw. I’m buying one early next year.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3766 posts in 2024 days


#29 posted 11-09-2012 06:23 PM

My opinion is an echo from a previous post that the most dangerous tool in the shop, or anywhere for that matter, is the tool between the ears if it is not engaged properly.

Many manufacturing machines are guarded so that operators do not get injured but most of them are not destructive to the machine and IMO that is the technology that will win out in the near future.

However, from what I gleaned from the post above is that the SS is a class TS so why should it not be a prime candidate as your next TS?

If I was in the market for a new saw my choices would have to include the Hammer sliding table TS because I have always wanted a sliding table!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

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308Gap

332 posts in 1660 days


#30 posted 11-09-2012 07:18 PM

First question should be which table saw is made in USA, not just assembled but MADE here. I did find this,

Q. Where are the Sawstop saws manufactured at?
Q. Where are the break cartridge saws manufactured at?

A. SawStop saws are engineered in the US at our Tualatin, Oregon headquarters. Once engineered, the manufacturing of our saws takes place in Taiwan (Taiwan and mainland China are the manufacturing location choices for the vast majority of performance saw companies). The assembly facilities are ISO 9001 certified, and SawStop embeds manufacturing engineers in the process to monitor for and help ensure quality. These engineers oversee the inspection of component parts prior to final saw assembly, assess assembly procedures for consistency with SawStop requirements, and evaluate final production prior to shipment. Every SawStop saw must pass a 100+ point comprehensive inspection.

Aren’t Delta Unisaw’s made here. We’ve become so complacent with made in china.

-- Thank You Veterans!

View Viktor's profile

Viktor

447 posts in 2075 days


#31 posted 11-09-2012 07:21 PM

When I hear comments like “the best safety mechanism is between your ears” (as if someone disputes that) or “Saw Stop is great, but it does not protect you from bicycle falls” I feel like statistics in general and probability theory in particular should not only be required subject in schools, but be hammered in pretty hard. Clearly, additive and multiplicative properties of risks elude a lot of people.
Having said that, my order of preference to improve safety would be:
1) Statistics in schools
2) Slider
3) Saw Stop

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2833 posts in 905 days


#32 posted 11-09-2012 07:28 PM

You are a smart guy Viktor and I agree (but I’m a professional statistics guy so I may be biased). I have no idea why sliders get no love here at all. Grizzly has some very attractive models that are well within the price range of a PCS.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

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Austons_Garage

41 posts in 687 days


#33 posted 11-09-2012 07:34 PM

It’s a little hyperbolic but: Would you go out of your way to find a brand new car without airbags and seatbelts? Or strap your toddler in without a carseat?
You may own and operate a unisaw or a PM66/2000 for 50 yeas without an incident. But if you cut off one of your piggly wigglies you wish you bought a SS. If its economically feasible it’s a no brainer.

View Viktor's profile

Viktor

447 posts in 2075 days


#34 posted 11-09-2012 07:50 PM

“I have no idea why sliders get no love here at all. Grizzly has some very attractive models that are well within the price range of a PCS.”

- Lumberjoe, I dunno? Beats me. Seems like comparable to SS in cost and safety plus added functionality. Scoring blade no less! Hammer has small 5HP slider for $3K.

View Mark E.'s profile

Mark E.

378 posts in 2399 days


#35 posted 11-09-2012 08:02 PM

+1 for a slider.

I have the Grizzly G0623X. Made in Taiwan, not China. Excellent quality, works great.

It ‘feels’ much safer than working with a standard American cabinet saw.

-- Mark

View Viktor's profile

Viktor

447 posts in 2075 days


#36 posted 11-09-2012 08:03 PM

“I’d like to hear the reason why I should buy “x” as apposed to “y” based on manufacturing quality, the saw’s capability, ease of use, etc.”

- I heard from a pro (seems to be true) that his insurance premium was lowered once he switched to SawStop(s). Insurance company must have come up with some “fingers cut / hours worked” risk analysis. Would be interesting to see that.

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2833 posts in 905 days


#37 posted 11-09-2012 08:04 PM

Not to take this thread off track, but Mark, if you could post a review or send me your impressions of the Grizzly, that would be awesome. I would love to get a large format slider (like the one you own) and really don’t want to pay 5500 for a Hammer K3 Winner.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View 308Gap's profile

308Gap

332 posts in 1660 days


#38 posted 11-09-2012 08:06 PM

Hand saws are safer, if the fear of injury drives your purchases maybe a safer hobby/life would be best.

-- Thank You Veterans!

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1815 days


#39 posted 11-09-2012 08:50 PM

You know how often I’ve drawn blood using a hand saw??? I can’t help but spike myself as least once per use. LOL!

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View ScottStewart's profile

ScottStewart

109 posts in 789 days


#40 posted 11-09-2012 09:34 PM

I am a veterinarian, so my hands/fingers are an extremely important part of my livelihood. I have medical insurance, but in the end, if I don’t work, I lose money. I always had thought that a grizzly 1023xxx would be my “forever” saw, but a windfall made it possible to look at the delta/powermatic/sawstop type saws. I did a lot of research, as I am think most of us do when looking at this magnitude of purchase. After my research, I couldn’t find a compelling reason to buy a Powermatic. The Delta is manufactured here if that is important to you (It is also my understanding that Delta is owned now by a Chinese company.) The Sawstop is manufactured overseas.

The negative: I don’t know if the Sawstop will last 50-75 years like the old Unisaws. I will be happy if I get 25-30 out of mine with hobbyist use.

With the difference in features across saws, had there been a $500-1000 price difference across saws, it might have swayed me. There isn’t.

I purchased a PCS with some accessories 4 months ago. I am extremely hard pressed to find anything at all I could improve on the saw. (I think internal dust collection could have been better since there is no way to get the dust (other than the shop vac hose) if it settles outside the blade shroud). I have had 2 minor issues with mine (chrome plating flaking off a handle, hydraulic jack on the base leaking oil), and getting the problem fixed required a single email both times. The fit and finish are amazing, the instructions are top notch. I felt like I got a little nickel and dimed on the accessories, but maybe that’s how it is.

I’m all for personal responsibility. No safety device is going to protect you 100% of the time, but we build layer on layer of safety in lots of things for a reason. Every ER doctor I’ve ever asked has seen multiple table saw injuries. I would love to know the incidence of table saw blade injures per woodworker-year. The guys that do have them, the insurance companies for cabinet shops, are pushing the Sawstops. That tells me something.

The Sawstop appears to be an excellently thought out product, with the finger saving technology being the icing on top of the cake. I haven’t regretted my purchase at any time, and if I knew then what I know now, nothing would change. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about my experiences.

Scott

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CessnaPilotBarry

891 posts in 767 days


#41 posted 11-09-2012 09:54 PM

I drank the Kool Aid, and would gladly order another round.

If I could, I’d buy the whole bar a round.

I should point out that my SS ICS replaced another great cabinet saw. The other saw did not have a riving knife, which was my primary concern. I don’t have a good location for a slider.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1571 days


#42 posted 11-09-2012 09:59 PM

Yeah, and I should NEVER have flown at 14,000’ MSL in a Hang Glider,

and I sure as Hell should NEVER have been

National Park Ranger fighting fire out in Yosemite NP,

Psst… Don’t miss the Vicodin Stare…

I should have NEVER left the rocking chair I was born in.

YEP, I JUST SHUDDA’ BOUGHTA’ SAWSTOP… and then I woulda’ been safe…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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CessnaPilotBarry

891 posts in 767 days


#43 posted 11-09-2012 10:07 PM

Mike,

I’m the opposite… It’s certain “interesting” moments in airplanes, fast cars, on mountain bikes, and with electricity, that make me look differently at certain safety devices.

I’m all for calculated risk, but I’m also big on stacking the deck as best I can in my favor.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

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Craftsman on the lake

2386 posts in 2094 days


#44 posted 11-09-2012 10:23 PM

My nephew has had the sawstop for over a year now. It’s a well built precision piece of machinery. And it’s actually pretty too.

The argument isn’t weather the sawstop safety mechanism works. It does, and it works really well. The only question is if you feel you need that margin of safety or not. My vote is that if anyone can get it they should.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1571 days


#45 posted 11-09-2012 10:25 PM

Barry,
Me too. It just seems that those who want to “avoid all/most risks”, do not know what the Hell they are talking about. Once you meet the devil, it is a different game.
Some of us have fun anyway… ;-)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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lumberjoe

2833 posts in 905 days


#46 posted 11-09-2012 10:30 PM

I was glad I opted for a scatter shield, drive shaft loop, and a fire suppression system in my car when I drag raced. The track I went to was lenient with safety equipment, but I installed it anyway. My flywheel let go around 125mph and took out an oil feed line to the turbo which conveniently pissed oil all over a cherry red hotside. I crossed the finish line backward and on fire. Had I not installed the scatter shield that would have come into the passenger compartment like a buzz saw. The car would have also burned to the ground while I fumbled with a 5 point harness and tried to maneuver around roll cage to get out.

I wouldn’t opt for the saw stop on a contractor model saw. The price jump is too steep. On a traditional (non-slider) cabinet saw it would be a no-brainier.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

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MonteCristo

2097 posts in 845 days


#47 posted 11-09-2012 10:34 PM

I want to build a shop that is free of fine dust. I don’t want to add to the noisy activity of woodworking buy getting tools that make more noise than they should. Thus, I’m going to purchase a Pro Cabinet TS

Hate to be a wet blanket but it ain’t gonna happen. You can reduce the (fine) dust but any honest woodworker is going to admit that the only dust free shops are those in Fine Woodworking magazine.

As for noise, cabinet saws are noisy too, maybe somewhat quieter than a contractor’s saw but still noisy, depending of course what blade you are using.

SawStop won’t save your bacon on your bandsaw, jointer, planer . . . ie. more hype than real butt saver.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

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Manitario

2347 posts in 1540 days


#48 posted 11-09-2012 11:01 PM

I have a Sawstop. It is a great saw, safety features aside. I hear a lot of griping about the cost of a SS here on LJ’s but you’d pay similar money for eg. a Powermatic TS. The saw is not simply a Grizzly quality with an added safety feature. Now for the safety stuff: I am a guitar player and an ER physician. I use a blade guard or a riving knife and pushsticks, feather boards etc and try and be absolutely as safe as possible. I hope to go my whole life without ever having the safety mechanism activate on the saw. However, the nature of accidents is that sometimes the unexpected happens. If that is me, I don’t want the cost to be my fingers or the use of my hand.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

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Woodmaster1

475 posts in 1244 days


#49 posted 11-09-2012 11:13 PM

I bought a sawstop pcs for school and a unisaw for me at home I like both so if you are worried get the sawstop. I love my unisaw for home. I have used a tablesaw for 45 years and have not had a close call, but there is always that chance. I try to practice what I tell students safety is the most important thing, use it or lose it (fingers).

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steve6678

438 posts in 717 days


#50 posted 11-09-2012 11:17 PM

Wow, lot’s of replies…I read 20 or so, good stuff.
I haven’t even considered the SawStop. Dunno why.
I too, am looking at and pondering a NEW, higher HP saw, I have 1 1/2hp, but after my recent project with Hard Maple, 12/4 to 4/4, I know I NEED more HP.
The Saw Stop (Cabinet) and I say cabinet, because I wouldn’t consider anything less than a 3HP Cabinet saw for my ole saw’s replacement, the cabinet SS seems a Fine Machine!
I’ve never pushed wood through one, and I’d like to try one out, but I have been considering Grizzly 1023 or 691, and higher $-wise a PowerMatic, I looked at Laguna but had a lot of issues with reviews.
I suppose, just because you work with your fingers…don’t we all, I’ve come awful close to getting a blade touch..
THE BIGGEST THING YOU CAN DO FOR YOURSELF RUNNING A SAW, A TS, IS KEEP THE BLADE TO MINIMUM HEIGHT!!!!!!!!!
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people run wood through WITHOUT LOWERING the blade to 1/8” above their work.
I do it AS A GENERAL RULE!!
All the time…everytime.
Maybe, if you do get cut…(who-ever—-forgive) it will only be a 1/8-1/16” slice.
So, good luck, and lower your blade, please.

-- Steve - Dust sucks!

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