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I'm about to give up (on my jointer).......

by dakremer
posted 10-24-2012 07:44 PM


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78 replies so far

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112096 posts in 2233 days


#1 posted 10-24-2012 07:48 PM

Have you tried heating them up?

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#2 posted 10-24-2012 07:48 PM

I dont have the means to do that…..

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View Vrtigo1's profile

Vrtigo1

432 posts in 1647 days


#3 posted 10-24-2012 07:54 PM

You can get a cheap torch at Home Depot for $20. Have you tried spraying a lubricant and letting it set overnight? One of my friends is a boat mechanic so a lot of stuff he works on is rusty and impossible to loosen. A trick he showed me once is to slightly tighten a frozen bolt before trying to loosen it. Doesn’t seem like it would make any sense but I have seen it work on otherwise stuck bolts.

View patron's profile

patron

13034 posts in 1997 days


#4 posted 10-24-2012 07:55 PM

the bolts ‘lossen’
when turned into the knives

i have made that mistake before
(looking down from the in-feed side
turn them towards the fence)
more liquid wrench too

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View Don W's profile

Don W

15030 posts in 1223 days


#5 posted 10-24-2012 07:56 PM

are they left handed threads? Try tightening first.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#6 posted 10-24-2012 07:59 PM

I’m not sure which way the bolt comes off….maybe i’ll try and get a better pictures of the threads. I’ve tried turning them both way, and nothing budges….and on top of that its starting to strip the bolts….

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View degoose's profile

degoose

7013 posts in 2010 days


#7 posted 10-24-2012 08:02 PM

You tighten the bolts to remove the blades…..

-- Drink twice... and don't bother to cut... @ lazylarrywoodworks.com.au For lovers of all things timber...

View Don W's profile

Don W

15030 posts in 1223 days


#8 posted 10-24-2012 08:05 PM

the next thing I would try is to take a good heavy punch, and smack the bolts. Not hard enough to break them, but hard enough to possible break them loose.

The other observation is: if I was doing it, the penetrating oil (Liquid Wrench) would be oozing from everywhere. Soak those suckers good. WD-40 isn’t a good enetrating oil in my opinion.

How long have they soaked? I’d have continually soaked them for a day or two.

Also +1 on the heat. It doesn’t take a lot, they don’t have to be cherry read to be effective.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Viktor's profile

Viktor

447 posts in 2074 days


#9 posted 10-24-2012 08:06 PM

If everything else fails you can always cut the bolts off with hacksaw or grinder, remove the knives and repair or replace the shim bar.

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#10 posted 10-24-2012 08:12 PM

I had them soaked in liquid wrench for about 30 mins.

Does anyone know which way the bolts need to turn so I don’t strip them anymore. Patron said push the wrench towards the fence?

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View Don W's profile

Don W

15030 posts in 1223 days


#11 posted 10-24-2012 08:16 PM

In my opinion 30 minutes is not anywhere near long enough.

I would agree with pushing toward the fence. Thats assuming they are threaded into the shim bar, which is what the picture looks like.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View chrisstef's profile

chrisstef

10847 posts in 1662 days


#12 posted 10-24-2012 08:17 PM

doug i know that i had to grind down my wrench to make it fit…. is your wrench getting hung up on ya?

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

View HerbC's profile

HerbC

1167 posts in 1515 days


#13 posted 10-24-2012 08:23 PM

Dakremer,

If you’re still struggling with the bolts, try some Bluecreeper

I’ve found that this is the BEST penetrating oil product I’ve ever used (and I use a lot of different ones in a twenty year career in the Navy as a shipboard maintenance electrician…).

Soak the bolts down with this stuff, wait a while for it to work and that’s all it takes.

Good Luck!

Be Careful!

Herb

-- Herb, Florida - Here's why I close most messages with "Be Careful!" http://lumberjocks.com/HerbC/blog/17090

View patron's profile

patron

13034 posts in 1997 days


#14 posted 10-24-2012 08:24 PM

tightening them ‘down’ (clockwise)
actually loosens them up

when they are ‘loosened’
(or turned counter-clockwise)
they get tight against the cutter block
and push the blades tight
to the other side of the block

it’s all ‘backwards’
but it works that way

chrisstef has done what i did too
i have had to grind the ‘cheeks’ of the wrench
to fit into the tight space there
those thin stamped wrenches don’t work for long

and a tap with a hammer
on the end of the wrench towards the fence
can jar them

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View Jim Jakosh's profile

Jim Jakosh

11477 posts in 1761 days


#15 posted 10-24-2012 08:38 PM

Doug, Liquid wrench is pretty old school. They have some much better products out today that penetrate rust. I soak them overnight in something like PB Blaster. the best one I’ve ever used is called Cyclo but I can’t find it much any more. They look like they got rusted in. I think most of them are right handed so you turn them like you are going to screw them into the plate or or tighten them. What they do is back out of the plate and against the knives- like jack screws that lift things. ...........Jim

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!! Variety is the Spice of Life!!

View americanwoodworker's profile

americanwoodworker

182 posts in 1029 days


#16 posted 10-24-2012 08:40 PM

Push the wrench towards the fence is correct. When you loosen the bolt it moves out of the thread and the head of the bolt pushes against the drum face which tightens the blade. When you tighten the bolt the threads move in thus giving space between the head of the bolt and the drum.

If you cannot use heat then soak the drum in penetrating oil for several days. I have never done this but maybe someone who has might know if using electrolysis will work?

-- Your freedom to be you, includes my freedom to be free from you.

View Don W's profile

Don W

15030 posts in 1223 days


#17 posted 10-24-2012 08:46 PM

I’ve heard good things about kroil as well for penetratiung oil

Hit them with a good shot 2 or 3 times a day for a couple of days, smack them with a good punch, add a little heat from a hand held torch and if they don’t come out, they’re probably not going to.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3133 posts in 1331 days


#18 posted 10-24-2012 08:50 PM

Kroil….also i would try to go to an automotive shop and find out when the tool truck comes. Buy yourself a
Snap-On brand wrench. They are more precise in size and they don’t spread when you apply pressure. Very likely, you are spreading the jaws on the wrench causing the corners to round. I have done this a couple of times with what I considered a good wrench. Get a high wuality liuke a Snap-On and it will come out.

View Loren's profile

Loren

7561 posts in 2303 days


#19 posted 10-24-2012 08:51 PM

At this point I personally would cut them off.

Sometimes I’ve drilled into the bolt head from the
edge and then you can put a punch in the hole and
use that as a lever, but that’s not much different from
cutting them off as it does kind of mess up the bolt.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5462 posts in 2031 days


#20 posted 10-24-2012 09:15 PM

I’ll 2nd PB Blaster as a penetrating oil. It might be easier to work on if your remove the whole cutterhead.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Viktor's profile

Viktor

447 posts in 2074 days


#21 posted 10-24-2012 09:31 PM

If you do cut them off, you may try to do so through the top of bolt head (flush with cutterhead inner flange). It’s more cutting, but when you remove the shim you have enough bolt head left to extract it with socket type wrench. Socket wrench engages all 6 corners and you can apply 3 times the torque of the open head wrench without stripping.

View Roger's profile

Roger

14592 posts in 1460 days


#22 posted 10-24-2012 10:38 PM

Do you have a manual? PB Blaster always did the trick to loosen bolts and nuts on old motorcycles for me. Got to shoot it on and let it set and work. Spray all around the top and bottoms of the nuts/bolts. Sometimes a “persuader” works to help the loosening process along :)

-- Roger from KY. Work/Play/Travel Safe. Kentuk55@bellsouth.net

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14752 posts in 2331 days


#23 posted 10-25-2012 01:05 AM

Try a “home brew” mix of 50 – 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. It cut the force required by 50% vs penetrating oil.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1599 posts in 2118 days


#24 posted 10-25-2012 01:12 AM

The gib screws, bolts holding the knives in, should be a left hand thread. Get some penetrating oil, WD40 is no good. Get some Kroil or PBlaster. I prefer Kroil, look for it at your local gun shop if the hardware stores dont carry it. Or, kroil.com. Heat will also help, get a small plumbers torch and MAPP gas, burns hotter than propane. If still no luck, take the cutter head out as one unit and get it on the bench. You can also then put it in the freezer for a couple of hours and then heat the bolts.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View Sailor's profile

Sailor

533 posts in 1921 days


#25 posted 10-25-2012 01:26 AM

dak,

I have what looks to be an identical jointer as yours (but it’s a Grizzly) and it has the same story as yours AND I am have the same exact problem as you!

I too have nearly rounded off some of the bolts and tried WD40 with no avail. Glad you started this thread. I really hope you can get those suckers off, if and when you do be sure to let us know what the secret was!

Good Luck!

-- Dothan, Alabama Check out my woodworking blog! http://woodworkingtrip.blogspot.com/ Also my Youtube Channel's Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/SailingAndSuch

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 1625 days


#26 posted 10-25-2012 08:20 AM

Take the cutter head out and bring it to an engineering company.

View Milo's profile

Milo

851 posts in 1975 days


#27 posted 10-25-2012 12:17 PM

dak,

Jim had it right. Try heat. A heat gun will do the trick. If you don’t have one, ask around, I’ll bet someone you know has one.

Did you get the cutter head out? That will help a lot.

Let us all know what happens!

-- Beer, Beer, Thank God for Beer. It's my way of keeping my mind fresh and clear...

View Ripthorn's profile

Ripthorn

759 posts in 1641 days


#28 posted 10-25-2012 12:35 PM

I was in a similar boat with my Grizzly. I did finally get them out and got myself some new regualr zinc plated hex bolts and ground down the heads so that they would fit in the cutter head. Cost less than two bucks for the bolts.

-- Brian T. - Exact science is not an exact science

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#29 posted 10-25-2012 02:10 PM

I have soaked the bolts in Liquid Wrench all day yesterday and all night…..we’ll see what happens today…..

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View dbhost's profile

dbhost

5385 posts in 1888 days


#30 posted 10-25-2012 02:26 PM

Please don’t give up on that machine. I bet you are just handling something oddly…

There is this downright mean nasty penetrating oil that makes Liquid Wrench seem like tar… It’s called Aerokroil, Ford specifies this stuff in their Technical Service bulletins to remove stuck spark plugs on the 5.4 liter 3 valve engines. I am sure if it is a rust issue, that stuff will help…

A couple of pointers if I may…

#1. If possible use the box end of the wrench to do the work. #2. Use a top quality penetrating oil like Aerokroil or others to break through and loosen any rust, let it soak overnight if you can. #3. Try to find a manual online for that jointer. Now I know Sunhill is gone, I own a Sunhill machine, but all Sunhill did was slap a label on Geetech equipment. Find the manual for the matching Geetech model and you have it… NOTE: Never mind, you in your text said it was a Sunhill jointer, but it is clearly labelled on the machine itself as a Geetech… #4. Even without the manual, I am pretty confident that the bolts are left hand threaded. Try loosening the other way…

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#31 posted 10-25-2012 02:36 PM

I haven’t tried loosening them yet since I’ve let them soak in Liquid Wrench. I’m going to try today. I know nothing about left handed vs right handed bolts, etc, but the consensus seems to be to push the wrench towards the fence….

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View Don W's profile

Don W

15030 posts in 1223 days


#32 posted 10-25-2012 02:39 PM

pushing toward the fence assumes a right handed bolt. If they are left handed, thats backward. If you can see the threads, you should be able to see which way you need to turn them.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#33 posted 10-25-2012 02:41 PM

well…maybe before I do any turning on the wrench….i’ll get a better picture and show you guys….I dont want to strip anymore bolts – I think I’m going to go buy a good wrench as well!

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View Don W's profile

Don W

15030 posts in 1223 days


#34 posted 10-25-2012 02:56 PM

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#35 posted 10-25-2012 03:05 PM

Cool Don! Thanks for drawing that up for me!! I am headed to the shop now….

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View Broglea's profile

Broglea

665 posts in 1746 days


#36 posted 10-25-2012 03:28 PM

If the penetrating oil doesn’t work for you then take the cutter head out and soak it in an electrolysis bath for about 12 hours. You can set it up pretty easily just google it.

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#37 posted 10-25-2012 10:38 PM

Don – I needed to turn it towards the fence! thats the good news…..

the bad news is….is that I only got about half of the bolts loosened…none of which were all on the same knife – so I couldnt get any one knife out. I think tomorrow I’m going to try to set up electrolysis for the whole cutter head – I’ve always wanted to try that anyways!

I’m afraid to try heat, as I dont want to screw anything up – same as with cutting the bolts off….I dont want to mess it up and not be able to get it functioning again

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1377 posts in 839 days


#38 posted 10-25-2012 10:49 PM

If you got half the bolts out after one night of Liquid Wrench, give them all another healthy squirt tonight and try again tomorrow. Maybe give them a good whack with a mallet before trying to unscrew them. Electrolysis would be more on the “last resort” phase for me for this operation, as the rust seems pretty surface level on the cutterhead.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View Dusty56's profile

Dusty56

11659 posts in 2344 days


#39 posted 10-25-2012 11:10 PM

It’s only light surface rust…electrolysis will be a waste of time as far as getting the bolts to loosen , plus you won’t want to submerge the bearings in water in the first place.
If your wrench is slipping on the heads , you need a better quality wrench. Snap On was mentioned earlier and I would second that after using them for over 40 years : )
Or , remove the head and bring it to where ever you’re going to get your knives sharpened and pay them to remove the bolts. They should be equipped to handle this simple process. : )

-- I'm absolutely positive that I couldn't be more uncertain!

View Don W's profile

Don W

15030 posts in 1223 days


#40 posted 10-25-2012 11:35 PM

I’ve never tried electrolysis for anything like this, so I’m not going to say for sure, but I’d be a bit surprised if it would work. I’ve tried not taking planes apart, and it never worked very well. Remember your soda solution needs to get were it can work. If penetrating oil can’t get there, I’m not sure how water will.

I’m with the soak it some more hit it with a punch and try again. If your halfway there you’re making progress. When you smack it with a punch hit it toward one side like you’re trying to turn it a few times as well as straight on. I’ve removed plenty of bolts with a chisel and hammer. Bolts won’t be much good after, but out is the objective.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Viktor's profile

Viktor

447 posts in 2074 days


#41 posted 10-26-2012 12:11 AM

I’d be cautious about electrolysis. It works fine on open surface where most of rust flakes out. It also reduces ferric oxide to ferrous oxide and that all the way to iron. Not the homogeneous and shiny, but porous and dark. You don’t want that inside your threads. I have no idea whether it will make bolts harder to remove, but at least this is the chemistry of it and it would make a great science experiment and a lesson for all of us. Not that it matters now since you have that entire thing soaked in penetrating oil and electrolyte won’t get inside anyway. I wish someone who actually done bolt removal with electrolysis enlighten us on the prospects. Can’t wait how it turns out. Oh, the suspense!

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

10882 posts in 1346 days


#42 posted 10-26-2012 02:18 AM

Get a quality wrench that fits perfectly (Metric will almost fit a SAE bolt so get the right wrench). Use a flat tipped punch (drift punch) and give each bolt several healthy smacks before trying to loosen them. Smacking with a punch and ball peen hammer solved my frozen bolt problem in my planer with no penetrating oil. If you’re nervous about heating them with a flame use a heat gun (takes longer but will work). If the above all fail, you have exhausted my options!

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

View lew's profile

lew

10034 posts in 2411 days


#43 posted 10-27-2012 12:57 AM

If you still haven’t gotten them out, try something called LocTite Freeze and Release. Got mine from Fastenal but it is probably available at most Napa dealers.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 2052 days


#44 posted 10-27-2012 02:09 PM

Get some PBBlast or Kroil and spray on the bolts. let them soak over night.both of these work much better than WD-40 or liquid wrench.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#45 posted 10-28-2012 02:01 AM

update: Havent been able to get at it in the last couple days. my next attempt is going to try what gfadvm suggested…..we’ll see how it goes…

I’ll keep you posted

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View exelectrician's profile

exelectrician

1563 posts in 1083 days


#46 posted 10-28-2012 06:19 AM

HerbC has the right advice, use Loads of penetrating oil – put a drip pan under the unit and flood the stuff in. Then follow patron’s advice to the letter. gfadvm is also dead on. You will get it done.

-- Love thy neighbour as thyself

View Paul Miller's profile (online now)

Paul Miller

30 posts in 2109 days


#47 posted 10-28-2012 07:53 PM

I had the same problem with my Bridgewood. The end wrench was rounding off the bolt heads. I bought a small vise grip (about 5” long) and ground the sides down a bit so it would fit into the slot, and all the bolts came out.

Paul.

View Adrian A's profile

Adrian A

153 posts in 1558 days


#48 posted 10-29-2012 05:51 PM

Make sure you have a perfectly fitting wrench. And one thats thin enough to go deep into the slot between the blade and cutter roller. If all else fails you can dissassembly the entire unit, then take out the entire cutter head assembly then it should be a little easier to go crazy on it.

I agree with the torch though.. that should do it if all else fails.

View Bram Couttouw's profile

Bram Couttouw

42 posts in 972 days


#49 posted 10-29-2012 06:27 PM

I have had great succes with cola. If it’s possible, get out the cutter head and let it soak in a plastic can full of cola for a couple of days.
Worked for me with a 40 year old f-style clamp wich had the threads blocked because of the rust.

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2455 posts in 1747 days


#50 posted 10-29-2012 07:47 PM

Thats crazy cola can do that….and yet people drink it. Sounds like fun! :)

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

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