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View UKCat's profile

110V or 220V?

by UKCat
posted 645 days ago


25 replies so far

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5369 posts in 1973 days


#1 posted 645 days ago

I wouldn’t bother with 220v unless you’re having obvious dimming and slow starting issues. Every circuit and every motor is a little different….try your saw on 110v first and see how it does. 220v won’t give you more power, though it might have less voltage loss, so could result in faster startup and faster recovery from bogging.

Be sure to set the saw up well and upgrade the stock blade.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View JesseTutt's profile

JesseTutt

795 posts in 708 days


#2 posted 645 days ago

110V is fine. I would make sure the wire size is sufficient. This comes from someone who ran 10 Gauge wire from the saw to the 30A (10 guage) wall outlet.

-- Jesse, Saint Louis, Missouri

View UKCat's profile

UKCat

82 posts in 665 days


#3 posted 645 days ago

The outlet that the TS is run from is 12 gauge wire. That should be big enough for 13A isn’t it?

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1599 posts in 2060 days


#4 posted 645 days ago

12GA is rated to handle 20A. If the motor draws 13A at 110V you should be ok. You never want to be more than 80% of the breaker rating for full load. It is a 20A breaker, dedicated circuit?

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5369 posts in 1973 days


#5 posted 644 days ago

To add to my comment last night, if you can run the 220v cheaply doing it yourself, it’s always nice to have on hand for things like running bigger motors in the future, or freeing up 110v outlets for other things. The 13 amp motor shouldn’t have much trouble unless your 110v isn’t up to snuff or if the line is shared by other appliances, but if you ever add a true 2hp motor that draws more amperage, it’ll push the boundaries more. Once 220v is there, then you can experiment pretty easily to see if it helps your R4512….no harm done, and could possibly be some benefit if the 110v line needs help.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1756 days


#6 posted 644 days ago

Like Scott said, you won’t see a power advantage by going to 220v.

But the issue is that we never have a ready-to-go, dedicated 110v available for our tools. Your saw, with 12g wire, will probably be on a 20 amp breaker. If anything else is on that circuit, then you might have issues. In my garage, not only does the main (only) circuit run all the lights and outlets, but it also runs the GFCI outlets in my bathrooms. Whereas my Unisaw is on 220v, my planer is not, so I normally have to unplug stuff just to run it. And even then, in the winter, it is amazing how often my wife and kids turn on a space heater in the bathroom, usually right in the middle of a cut. Regardless, I run my DC off an extension cord going to my front porch. I can’t run it on the same circuit with my other tools.

I will be taking ALL this in consideration when I re-wire my shop…eventually.

So, if you are going to run a new circuit anyway, you might as well make it 220v.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1756 days


#7 posted 644 days ago

Oh, and UKCat, it isn’t “less power draw” when using 220v current. Power (total wattage) is the same. It’s just that you are doubling your voltage to the machine while cutting the amperage in half.

For this reason, you can run more machines on a given 220v circuit. Running a TS at 6.5 amps instead of 13 amps on a 30 amp breaker (standard with 220v) provides a lot of overhead for other things. So, with 220v, you won’t have to dedicate a lot of 220v circuits to your tools UNLESS you run a lot of 220v motors simultaneously. That’s not the standard MO for a home shop.

Cost of the wiring for 220v yourself (not with electricians) is typically cheaper because the two legs can be run on thinner gauge wire as compared to 110v.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View Charles Maxwell's profile

Charles Maxwell

941 posts in 2405 days


#8 posted 644 days ago

If you can power with 220 that’s advisable. Look at the start-up current draw for both 110 and 220. That’s key. Your 110 starting current draw will be near 15amps. Your comparable 220 start-up draw will be about 6.5 amps. That says it all for me. The steady state draw will also be lower.

-- Max the "night janitor" at www.hardwoodclocks.com

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6914 posts in 1512 days


#9 posted 644 days ago

Everyone makes good points about the ability to use “smaller” wire sizes when running 240v. That is true, but for the small difference in wire prices consider running 10-3 inside your shop.

Here is what I used from HD. The best part of this is that it is an “armored cable” so you do not need to run conduit. NOTE—This is NOT a burial type cable. Interior only.

AFC Cable Systems 125 ft. 10/3 Gauge BX/AC-90 Cable
Model # 1408N32-00
Internet # 202286692
Store SKU # 282805
$136.00 /EA-Each

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Wire-Electrical-Wiring/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbm6mZ1z0zud2/R-202286692/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UIAPf4ZP_QU

FOR BURIAL USE TO THE SHOP:
I do not know how far you need to run service. That will dictate how large a cable to use. You will need to find out the requirements for the distance you will be installing.

FWIW, running service to my garage (100amp service) I ran #00 twisted wire w/ground overhead. That was overkill on my part, so check locally for what you need to be looking at.

IF #10 is adequate for your service to your free standing shop/garage:

Southwire 250 ft. 10-2 UF-B W/G Cable
Model # 13056755
Internet # 202316282
Store SKU # 269077
$224.00 /EA-Each

It can also be used for outbuildings such as garages and barns. UF-B feeds from a distribution point in an existing building. UF-B has a heat capacity of 90* C and is rated at 600 volts. UL Listed and CSA Certified.

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Wire-Electrical-Wiring-Service-Entrance-Wire/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbm3u/R-202316282/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UIAZvIZP_QU

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View HillbillyShooter's profile

HillbillyShooter

4348 posts in 890 days


#10 posted 644 days ago

My two cents are always use 220v if possible. I’ve heard the explanation but I’m not an electrician; however, Charles Maxwell, above, sums it up as best I can recall. This is one of the few things I always listened to my father about. Dad taught be to hot wire 220v when I was in my teens. Dad had been the mechanic on a “Flying Fortress” during WWII and kept the plane going on over 40 missions out of England—this was one area he really knew what he was talking about.

-- John C. -- "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." George Washington

View UKCat's profile

UKCat

82 posts in 665 days


#11 posted 644 days ago

My shop has 50A service on 8ga THHN wire. From the disconnect to outlets are 12 gauge with only one piece of equipment on each outlet and these are on 20A breakers.

View perfect's profile

perfect

4 posts in 687 days


#12 posted 644 days ago

I have the same saw and am mulling over the same decision (especially as I’m finishing my workshop and already planning on wiring runs for specific tool uses).

My big concern is that I’ll have both the TS and a DC going at the same time off of the same 20A circuit. I have a JT DC-1100 and am thinking that both devices turned on at the same time will pull too much current for my 12awg/20A circuit.

Wiring a 220V circuit to a 220V receptacle will be easy for me (only about 10 feet of cable needed since the power distribution panel is right nearby).

Could you power both the RS4512 and a Dust Collector on the same 20A circuit safely?

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1756 days


#13 posted 644 days ago

@perfect

Safety isn’t an issue. Feasibility is. No way they’ll run on the same circuit. That’s 13 amps for the saw (more on start up) and probably 14 or 15 amps for the DC (perhaps less, but a dedicated 15A is recommended in the manual). I absolutely cannot run my HF DC with my DeWalt DW735 planer at the same time in a 20A circuit. The moment I push a board through, the breaker trips. Same as with my Ridgid jointer.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5369 posts in 1973 days


#14 posted 644 days ago

@perfect – Even if that circuit breaker doesn’t trip, the odds of the circuit providing full voltage and amperage without a fair amount of loss is slim, which could in turn shorten the life expectancy of both motors. Since it’s a simple wiring job for you, I’d switch at least one of them to 220v.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View perfect's profile

perfect

4 posts in 687 days


#15 posted 644 days ago

Well then it looks like a 220V circuit might just be in order for the TS. And I guess now that you mention it..probably a dedicated 20A circuit for the dust collection as well.

Thanks for the advice Cosmicsniper!

View UKCat's profile

UKCat

82 posts in 665 days


#16 posted 644 days ago

I ran 8 gauge thhn to my shop on a 50 amp breaker. I may run one more wire for 220v service. Does anyone here know if 8gauge is big enough for this. I would think it is since the current draw would be going down for anything running on 220V.

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

2938 posts in 884 days


#17 posted 644 days ago

@perfect
If you have a total of 50A service you can have each outlet on a 20A breaker as long as you don’t exceed the load by a certain percent. Your city hall will tell you what that is.

As long as each tool including DC is going to a different breaker, it should be no problem. I would not run the TS and DC on the same 20A breaker though.

All this is presuming you have a main breaker. If not, then that should be done before you start another tool. Also get a dedicated ground fault protector.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1756 days


#18 posted 644 days ago

I agree, Russell. He just can’t have his DC on the same breaker as the other high-draw machines, including his router. The machines themselves can be mostly on the same circuit since they will never run simultaneously.

Most DC makers tell you to dedicate a circuit for it. There’s a reason for that.

When I rewire, I plan on putting all my 220v machines on the same breaker. My DC will be on its own 15a 110v breaker as will my shop lights, a dust cleaner, and general purpose outlets. My router, planer, jointer, drill press, and spindle sander will have a 20a circuit. A mini-split air unit will installed on its own breaker.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2094 posts in 786 days


#19 posted 642 days ago

220V is better because it heats up the wiring less (less Amps) and keeps your heavy-use tooling separate from lighting etc. Also, if you buy a more heavy duty saw or whatever, it won’t even run on 110V.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3046 posts in 1273 days


#20 posted 642 days ago

UKCat, I think you should look this up and see if you think You are safe. I think 8 ga. wire will only carry 45 A. If you are using a 50 amp breaker with it the breaker would never trip but the wire will burn. I would look into that. I think you should have 6 ga for the 50 amp. It is rated for 60 amps…........

View Lifesaver2000's profile

Lifesaver2000

508 posts in 1710 days


#21 posted 642 days ago

Since I have the Craftsman version of this saw, and I just did the switch over to 240v a few weeks ago, I will contribute a little something here.

First off, as far as performance, I can’t say that the saw has any more cutting power. I can say that the saw seems to have a bit more “crispness” when it comes to startup and also recovery when a cut causes it to bog down.

I also did a little timer test. With my 8 inch stacked dado set at 3/4 inch in the saw, I timed the startup at 120v, did the changeover, then timed it at 240v. As best as I could tell, the startup time at the higher voltage was about 25% faster.

Now something to consider in this is the voltage drop due to the total amount of wire between my service entrance and the saw. I have about 100’ of 6 ga wire to my shop, then it is about another 20 feet of 12 ga Romex to the saw outlet. According to a calculator I found online (Google “Voltage Drop Calculator) I was getting a 2.1% voltage drop at 120v, versus a .6% Voltage drop at 240v for that total amount of wire. I attribute any improvement in performance to the reduction in power loss, which from what I understand could be even more significant at startup.

I should also mention that it only cost me about $30 for materials to install the new outlet, and changing the motor couldn’t have been much simpler.

I will recommend to anyone buying wire to do some shopping around. Wire at Home Depot in my area costs about three times as much as it does from a local plumbing/electrical supply, and most of the other items are about a third to half the price. I have nothing against HD, go there a lot, but when it comes to these kinds of items if you can find it somewhere else you might save some money.

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

1155 posts in 894 days


#22 posted 642 days ago

220 is two 110 lines. Benefits are smoother juice to the motor and longer motor life. Why not?

View josephf's profile

josephf

52 posts in 694 days


#23 posted 642 days ago

I keep hearing those comments that there is no difference but that has not been my experience . My old delta cabinet saw ran much better on 220 . I have switched it back and forth for different locations .Just changed my large old drill press to 220 seems a lot smoother . The tablesaw started up faster easier and did not stall on 220 .Always seems that on 220 motors are smoother . I might be biased somewhat but I would advice putting in alot of 220 outlets so you have lots of options . Easier now then later .Some tools only run on 220 .Many just run better .

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14589 posts in 2274 days


#24 posted 642 days ago

The reason they seem smoother is you get less voltage drop when they experience a heavier load.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Dark_Lightning's profile

Dark_Lightning

1668 posts in 1707 days


#25 posted 642 days ago

The other thing to remember is, if you put in bigger wire, you won’t have to dig it up later. I wire my stuff oversize for this reason. The difference in cost is negligible from 16 to 12 Gauge if you had to pay someone to dig the trench. And then dig again.

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