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View 1yeldud1's profile

Are glue line saw blades replacing jointers ?

by 1yeldud1
posted 10-01-2012 08:53 PM


22 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

7550 posts in 2301 days


#1 posted 10-01-2012 09:45 PM

I don’t think so.

Asian made jointers in larger sizes have allowed some people
to upgrade and sell off a smaller jointer. 30 years ago,
before Taiwan made machines entered the market,
the price tag on any new 8” or larger jointer was pretty
hefty.

Also, lots of people invest in machinery to do a home
remodel or work on a boat or some other one-off,
intending to pursue woodworking after, but ten
years later and the machines haven’t been turned on
and they decide to sell off the machinery.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View 47phord's profile

47phord

175 posts in 890 days


#2 posted 10-01-2012 09:49 PM

No, because a glue-line blade simply makes a crisp edge. A jointer makes an edge square, something no saw blade can do on it’s own. I’m not sure why there are so many jointers on the market, though I tend to echo what Loren said on the matter.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1567 days


#3 posted 10-01-2012 09:55 PM

I can only say that for me, I love the glue-line blades. However with that said, those glue-line blades only really help me with edge cuts and have little to nothing to do with flattening/jointing +8in boards. I think the blades save us time, but do not replace the need for a good jointer in our shops (hobby shop in my case).

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Gerald Thompson's profile

Gerald Thompson

379 posts in 887 days


#4 posted 10-01-2012 10:50 PM

I love glue line blades. With that said how would one use a glue line blade to joint the face of a piece of lumber?
One could make a planer sled but I still like the old and proven sequnce of milling lumber flat and square all around.

-- Jerry

View pmayer's profile

pmayer

573 posts in 1718 days


#5 posted 10-02-2012 12:43 AM

Ask a few of the owners of the jointers on CL if they are getting rid of them because they got a better saw blade. I’d be surprised if you got that answer 1 out of 20 times. My guess is that they are either upgrading to 8”, or they just aren’t into woodworking like they thought they were going to be and they can’t justify the space that a jointer occupies.

I have a great saw blade and I still use my jointer all the time. And I recently sold a 6” to make room for an 8” jointer. :)

-- PaulMayer, http://www.vernswoodgoods.com

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5454 posts in 2028 days


#6 posted 10-02-2012 01:07 AM

Not a chance. No blade can replace a jointer, since flattening a face is the first step in dimensioning lumber. Using any blade (or router) to edge joint without first flattening the face doesn’t ensure a perfect 90° edge.

The term “Glue Line” blade is really just a marketing phrase. Most of the better blades with 30T or more are capable of providing a glue ready edge, and even some of the better 24T blades can too.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View REO's profile

REO

614 posts in 727 days


#7 posted 10-02-2012 04:36 AM

You will always find those that believe that it isn’t craftsmanship if you don’t do it with a particular tool associated with a craftsman. I run into it all the time in the wood turning biz. it used to be hand planes that were used to bring a board from rough to Finnish milled. some still get a tremendous satisfaction out of perfecting the craft.If you want to take a twisted board and spend the time flattening and squaring it horse around with a hand Plane. Then someone decided to power the hand plane and got the jointer and the planer or thicknesser as some would have it. For the most part in the past saw blades could not achieve a smooth enough cut and the glue line would show. Things have changed! For most they will just use a flat board to start and straight/glueline rip the thing and get on with the rest of the project. it is much faster to straighten the edges of a board on a TS than on a jointer it only takes one pass and i don’t have to worry about grain direction to avoid chip out. If i really to perform a jointer operation a good router table is much easier to control than standing a board on edge and insuring that I keep it against the fence in a vertical position.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5454 posts in 2028 days


#8 posted 10-02-2012 07:05 AM

Here’s what most of the “straight” boards that I find at the lumber yard look like (which really aren’t straight or flat).

Most aren’t flat and straight until they’ve been face jointed and edge jointed. Edge jointing alone won’t generally accomplish what you see below unless the faces are flattened first.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View CplSteel's profile

CplSteel

142 posts in 817 days


#9 posted 10-02-2012 08:20 AM

Depends on what you are working with. With ply a tracksaw is great. Cut it and glue it (and screw or dado it). With hardwoods you have a lot of other issues to deal with before you can assemble. A jointer is useful for making the face flat, removing all that cup and twist.

View ducky911's profile

ducky911

222 posts in 1442 days


#10 posted 10-02-2012 03:22 PM

I worked without a jointer for a long time. I would rip on the table saw and would think I had a good fit…it looked tight but when the clamp presure hit it it would want to move up or down. Now with a jointer I have noticed that I do not have that problem as much.

View CessnaPilotBarry's profile

CessnaPilotBarry

890 posts in 763 days


#11 posted 10-02-2012 03:27 PM

As mentioned earlier… faces need to be flattened, and the edge that runs along the fence needs to be straight.

That said, I don’t often machine joint edges ripped with a good blade. I often still spring and/or match joint it with a hand plane, but clean ripping blades have definitely cut down on machine jointing after ripping.

-- It's all good, if it's wood...

View Finisher's profile

Finisher

31 posts in 791 days


#12 posted 10-02-2012 03:38 PM

High tech blades that leave a glass smooth finish are great, but you have to have flat and striaght stock to begin with. A joiner is one of those pieces of equipment you probably don’t use a great deal but when you do, you’re glad you have it. joiners are a basic shop tool and serious shops can’t servive without a good 8” joiner or larger.

-- James, Michigan http://www.northcapecabinetsandmillwork.com

View REO's profile

REO

614 posts in 727 days


#13 posted 10-02-2012 03:40 PM

oh goodness I should have figured this would come. What is your time worth and where do you shop lol. I understand that for many it is enjoyable to prepare your stock. I worked at a sawmill that dried their material as well. One of the largest in the midwest. A proper drying procedure eliminates most of this. of course if you want to work with the elm family of trees that is another story. They can do a complete 180 in any direction and unless you really know your stuff wont lay flat in the first go round either from built in stress.

Knottscott-You must have had enough shavings to bed at least one horse stall.

View Joseph Jossem's profile

Joseph Jossem

384 posts in 921 days


#14 posted 10-02-2012 05:31 PM

here in hawaii I get laughed at for using a jointer a 16” and 10”.havent figured out why other then people are 2 lazy here and ignorant to know its full purpose.

View bobmcc81's profile

bobmcc81

6 posts in 813 days


#15 posted 10-08-2012 06:22 PM

I don’t own a joiner and have great success just using a good TS blade rip. Medium pressure on the clamps and never any gaps. I use mostly home store lumber and run it through the planer to get it flat and the thickness I want. Where I do have problems and have to choose another board is the cupped board that planning only flattens it temporarily as in runs thru the planer.

What am I missing by not using a jointer?

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3130 posts in 1328 days


#16 posted 10-08-2012 08:11 PM

The jointer would make the cupped board flat….the one that the planer only makes flat while it is in the planer. It uses too much pressure and flattens the board but the board springs back. The jointer would do the same thing except you would use less hand pressure and it wouldn’t or shouldn’t be pushed flat only to spring back. You can rip the cupped board into narrow strips and probably make it flat. you depend on the table saw with a flexing blade (yes it will flex) to make the edges 90 deg.

View Cato's profile

Cato

641 posts in 1965 days


#17 posted 10-08-2012 11:21 PM

I love having dedicated task machines. I enjoy the process that the jointer has in the preparation for flat and square boards.

A reference face and edge have to be created and to me the jointer is the linchpin in the process. Planer and TS take care of the other edge and face.

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 841 days


#18 posted 10-09-2012 02:59 AM

Jointers and good ripping blades are complementary tools. You need both, the latter because most jointers don’t stay dead square when their fences are shifted.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3359 posts in 1466 days


#19 posted 10-09-2012 04:21 AM

Nope. People are selling their 6” jointers to get 8” models, and selling their 8” jointers for 12” models.
A tablesaw blade can leave a nice edge on a board, but it will never face joint a 6” wide board.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1576 days


#20 posted 10-09-2012 11:32 AM

I just sold my 6” jointer. I sold the jointer because I very rarely used it after I found out about Incra LS-25. I plane my boards then run them thru the router. If an edge is really bad to start I use a flat board with a square edge and run it thru the TS first. I know people argue you can’t get a flat edge with the planer but I select my stock carefully and don’t seem to have much problem.

-- Life is good.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6938 posts in 1567 days


#21 posted 10-09-2012 12:09 PM

It sure appears to me that there are two groups of folks here, one that uses dimensional lumber that needs very little jointing/straightening, and those who utilize rough cut 8/4, 12/4, etc. and do their own resawing. For the latter, the jointer is a ‘must have’ item and for the former there are ‘work-arounds’ that make the jointer must less critical to have/own/use.

As long as both camps can get the job done then we can all claim the higher ground. ;-)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Vermont Hardwoods's profile

Vermont Hardwoods

17 posts in 708 days


#22 posted 10-09-2012 02:52 PM

[quote] I worked at a sawmill that dried their material as well. One of the largest in the midwest. A proper drying procedure eliminates most of this. [/quote]

Really? I must have missed that seminar, although sure, you can ruin a load of lumber in the kiln.

I’ve been in the lumber business 30+ years, running my own medium sized commercial shop (14 employees, 2 moulders) and we go through approximately half a million board feet of mostly hardwoods a year. We have bought from dozens upon dozens of mills, brokers and distribution yards and I have yet to see a single pack of lumber that could be used for any furniture or cabinet project without some sort of flattening treatment. In fact, even with a flattening facer and two sided planer we still hand flatten on the jointer any “important” jobs such as panels or components. The facer and planer are primarily used for moulding and flooring, and even a lot of our moulding goes over the jointer.

That said, a good straight line rip saw with a good blade (once the material has been properly flattened) can produce a perfectly acceptable glue line. But as many have already replied, no saw can fully replace a jointer.

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