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View Grumpymike's profile

BLO, Stain and Polly

by Grumpymike
posted 09-22-2012 11:28 PM


21 replies so far

View chrisstef's profile (online now)

chrisstef

11443 posts in 1750 days


#1 posted 09-22-2012 11:31 PM

I think an oil based stain would work the best. General Finshes is some very solid stuff. I dont have any experience with dyes or stain over blo so cant comment on that angle.

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15777 posts in 2962 days


#2 posted 09-22-2012 11:48 PM

+1 on what Chris said.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Clint Searl's profile

Clint Searl

1479 posts in 1105 days


#3 posted 09-23-2012 12:34 AM

Throw away the BLO; it’s only good for starting fires. Just stain and top with either oil or waterborne poly.

-- Clint Searl....Ya can no more do what ya don't know how than ya can git back from where ya ain't been

View paratrooper34's profile

paratrooper34

760 posts in 1695 days


#4 posted 09-23-2012 01:37 AM

Mike, personally I cannot stand using any kind of stain on a project. Stains, in my opinion, change the natural color of the wood too much for my taste. I prefer to use oil finishes BLO, tung oil, etc and then once they dry, I use a paste wax such as Johnson’s. I really like the natural color of woods that I use on my projects and have no desire to color them artificially. If I had the piece that you describe above, that is exactly how I would finish it.

-- Mike

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15777 posts in 2962 days


#5 posted 09-23-2012 01:42 AM

Well there you go, Mike. It’s unanimous. LOL!

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Fuzzy's profile

Fuzzy

293 posts in 2732 days


#6 posted 09-23-2012 03:32 PM

Clint … you are dead wrong on this … BLO is great for wheelbarrow/shovel/axe handles … other than that, I totally agree … the stuff is way more trouble than it is worth. There are way too many sane, predictable modern methods to coloring/enhancing wood to bother with that old crap my grandfather used, only to find out that it is a crapshoot … one time it looks OK … the next time .. YUCK !!

-- - dabbling in sarcasm is foolish … if you’re not proficient at it, you end up looking stupid … ... ...

View Grumpymike's profile

Grumpymike

1174 posts in 1059 days


#7 posted 09-23-2012 06:03 PM

I agree with you guys that stain is not for beautiful wood … HOWEVER … you missed the point.
I have to match her other furniture color. In other words, this lady has a whole room full of matching furniture, and to add this table I gotta match it … all the other (production) stuff has a stain on it; I can match that. (it looks almost like ammonia fumed but it is a stain.)
I like the way that BLO makes the grain pop, then add a water based polly top coat. I have used tung oil with great success … and so on.
I was just asking in which order to apply the three … I think that I will do alot of test pieces and report back on how all this stuff that I should throw away and use for fire starters works out.
I thank you for your comments.

-- Grumpy old guy, and lookin' good Doin' it. ... Surprise Az.

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 1030 days


#8 posted 09-23-2012 06:05 PM

The only time I’d use BLO to start a fire is if I was burning a trash can full of stains. :)

-- John, BC, Canada

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1902 days


#9 posted 09-23-2012 06:53 PM

Double post.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1902 days


#10 posted 09-23-2012 06:54 PM

I have never had success at matching another color with stain alone. Even if you knew all the pieces used the same stain, different woods and even different batches can cause a color disparity.

Dyes mixed in alcohol or water is a much better choice in that regard…sprayed on.

Oils enhance the natural contrast in the wood. You can achieve part of that same look with an oil based stain.

I would go that route, getting the color close with it, then fine tune the color with dye mixed with dewaxed shellac. Follows with a film finish of choice.

BTW, such a dyed mix is referred to an a “toner,” because it tones the wood to the desired shade.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1902 days


#11 posted 09-23-2012 07:03 PM

BTW, if you insist on BLO, I would do that first, follow by a shellac sealcoat, then the stain. I think that will allow the stain to do a better job of toning the without competing directly with the oil. Likewise, stains have pigment, which will block the oil, in part, from doing what you want the oil to do.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

1467 posts in 1000 days


#12 posted 09-24-2012 12:05 AM

I agree with Jay. Oil, shellac then stain in that order. Mix the stain a little light, then apply repeatedly until you get the color you want. Be sure to allow the oil enough time to completely dry. HTH

-- Art

View Clint Searl's profile

Clint Searl

1479 posts in 1105 days


#13 posted 09-24-2012 01:18 AM

You guys with all the oil and shellac sure like to complicate a situation and create multiple opportunities for things to get screwed up. KISS (Keep it simple, Stupid)

-- Clint Searl....Ya can no more do what ya don't know how than ya can git back from where ya ain't been

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1902 days


#14 posted 09-24-2012 02:23 AM

Matching color is not a simple task. What Grumpymike wants to do is a real life problem without the luxury of second chances. It might mean that he doesn’t get paid.

I too am from the KISS school of thought, but in this case KISS does not apply.

And BTW, oils are one of the best ways to make your projects really pop…I wouldn’t dismiss something like BLO so readily. In Mike’s case, popping the figure first with some BLO is easy. The shellac barrier is then very necessary…and also easy. It’s the third step that it tough…and that’s true no matter what you do beforehand.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 1030 days


#15 posted 09-24-2012 02:25 AM

Clint, I guess we could all just start painting our projects to keep it simple…

-- John, BC, Canada

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1902 days


#16 posted 09-24-2012 02:29 AM

IME, one of the hardest things to do in woodworking is applying a stain. That can really screw things up pretty fast because of so many variables. But if you put a wash coat of shellac ahead of the stain, then your chances of success greatly improve.

Next to an oil and wax finish, paint is about the only easy finish to do. After all, if finishing were truly easy, more people would enjoy doing it.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 1030 days


#17 posted 09-24-2012 02:33 AM

Agreed, Cosmicsniper. I’ve personally had many problems with stains, and very few with oils. My paint reference was tongue-in-cheek :)

-- John, BC, Canada

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4467 posts in 1123 days


#18 posted 09-24-2012 04:00 AM

It’s extremely difficult to match production furniture unless you follow a similar process. Production furniture usually intentionally disguises the grain and original wood. They use a mix of dyes, stains, and toners (dye mixed with lacquer) to achieve color then sometimes a stain spatter effect. When trying to match production furniture you’re wasting effort with BLO, just go straight to stain then tone with dyes (both will probably have to be mixed to match).

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Grumpymike's profile

Grumpymike

1174 posts in 1059 days


#19 posted 09-24-2012 07:37 PM

Ok, here is the deal … drum roll here … I took project scraps and treated them with: BLO, stain and polly; Stain, BLO and polly. and stain and polly.
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t424/Grumpymike/100_1053_zps58cfa6a8.jpg!

#1 is at the top this shot is outdoors next to the pool so it’s plenty bright

#1 is to the left. Indoors with a flash.

#1 is again to the top, in the shop with flash.
I wanted to try the different lighting to see what the effect is. The photo’s lose a bit of the color and “depth” in the grain but live in person everyone agreed on the second one haveing a “better and deeper glow”.
And so the winner is #2:

#1 is to the right
What I did: sanded to 220, tack, stain (oil base, custom mix (Minwax base)).
Let it dry for 24 Hrs, applied BLO with foam brush and let it soak for 15 min then wipe down with a clean rag. Let it set 1 hour and wipe down again. After about another 24 hrs I applied satin, let it dry then polyurathane. What we are seing here is one coat, the final project will have 3. I didn’t use the shellac as suddgeated because I was out of it. As any other oil, like tung etc. would have worked, I think the key was the wait for each coat to dry.
Thanks to all of you for your input and comments, even the sarcasm. It all helped.

-- Grumpy old guy, and lookin' good Doin' it. ... Surprise Az.

View Grumpymike's profile

Grumpymike

1174 posts in 1059 days


#20 posted 09-24-2012 07:39 PM

Sorry guys, seems that photo bucket cut the photos in half …

-- Grumpy old guy, and lookin' good Doin' it. ... Surprise Az.

View Steven H's profile

Steven H

1114 posts in 1803 days


#21 posted 09-30-2012 02:08 AM

You can also use Zinsser amber shellac

Stain first, then 1 coat of amber, then 1 clear coat of shellac seal coat, then poly.

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