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How fast and dangerous is a table saw kick back

by grosa
posted 09-15-2012 12:54 PM


38 replies so far

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grosa

987 posts in 2224 days


#1 posted 09-15-2012 01:01 PM

Every time I see this video I get a chill up my spine and goose bumps.

-- Have a great day.

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whitebeast88

4083 posts in 1585 days


#2 posted 09-15-2012 01:13 PM

wow!thanks for sharing.that was scary seeing how close his finger came to the blade and how hard the board went into the blanket.

-- Marty.Athens,AL

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muleskinner

854 posts in 1832 days


#3 posted 09-15-2012 01:14 PM

I watched that video until he went to the close-up slo-mo on how close his hand came to the blade – I couldn’t watch that.

-- Visualize whirled peas

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a1Jim

115082 posts in 2972 days


#4 posted 09-15-2012 01:17 PM

scary stuff for sure,like you said I spent years avoiding kick back.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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grosa

987 posts in 2224 days


#5 posted 09-15-2012 01:17 PM

It hurts just watching it, knowing what he is going to do before he even starts cutting!

-- Have a great day.

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hamburglar

42 posts in 1494 days


#6 posted 09-15-2012 01:21 PM

I watched that video a while ago, but it’s impact is still pretty strong.

At the job I just left none of the TS’s had splitters or guards, and they all had numerous mechanical issues as well. I had a piece kick back like he was showing and catch me in the stomach. It was hard enough that I had to take a couple of minutes and recompose myself.

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toolie

2001 posts in 2024 days


#7 posted 09-15-2012 01:49 PM

the guy doing the demo is a regular over @ woodnet and he posted this about a year or so ago over there. after my relatively minor 2 stitch encounter with a TS blade 8 years ago, i’ve never allowed my hands anywhere near as close as his came to that blade. his “after i changed my shorts…...” comment about sums it up.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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Lee Barker

2170 posts in 2245 days


#8 posted 09-15-2012 01:57 PM

I calculated TS blade tip speed once and if I remember correctly, it’s about 100mph.

Kindly,

Lee

-- "...in his brain, which is as dry as the remainder biscuit after a voyage, he hath strange places cramm'd with observation, the which he vents in mangled forms." --Shakespeare, "As You Like It"

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Blackie_

4527 posts in 1908 days


#9 posted 09-15-2012 02:34 PM

Those push blocks he was using weren’t the right kind to use for a table saw either, he failed to mention that in his video, I custom built mine in which places my hand way above where his was and my pushers also have a drop down lip that rest up against the back edge of the board while pushing it to give it a no slip option also helps keep the board plum with the blade and the fence not allowing any turning what so ever.

-- Randy - If I'm not on LJ's then I'm making Saw Dust. Please feel free to visit my store location at http://www.facebook.com/randy.blackstock.custom.wood.designs

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ShaneA

6356 posts in 1993 days


#10 posted 09-15-2012 02:36 PM

Yeah, I thought I read once it was about 104-105 mph. Trust me, from experience, its fast and hurts. I took a piece of quarter round I was ripping free (like an idiot) to the stomach. Huge bruise and a permanent imprint of quarter round on my stomach to remind me. Good lesson though.

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LukieB

965 posts in 1725 days


#11 posted 09-15-2012 02:56 PM

Yeah, at least that guy is smart enough to be aware that, that was the dumbest thing he’s ever done….”A lot of people out there right now calling me a idiot” Well add me to that list…...Idiot

-- Lucas, "Someday woodworks will be my real job, until then, there's this http://www.melbrownfarmsupply.com"

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IsaacH

128 posts in 1492 days


#12 posted 09-15-2012 03:19 PM

I just watched an episode of “woodsmith” on PBS…..guess what…..No rivving knife. Now, some dadoes were being cut, and I know theres that whole “safety devices moved for clarity” line, but there should of at least been some mention of the fact.

I have been a painful victim of kickback. I got a bruise on my stomach that lasted for a few months. Luckily my hands were nowhere near the blade…..btw….no rivving knife there either. :-S

-- Isaac- Decatur, GA - "Your woodworking....NOT machining parts for NASA!!!"

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sras

4349 posts in 2524 days


#13 posted 09-15-2012 03:31 PM

Thanks for sharing this. I have a splitter that mounts to my Zero Clearance insert. I’ve had it for nearly a year and it is still in the packaging.

Now I have a new project for the morning – thanks again.

-- Steve - Impatience is Expensive

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lunn

215 posts in 1704 days


#14 posted 09-15-2012 03:51 PM

A friend went to the ER a few weeks ago from kickback. The wood got him. 31 stitches on the tops of his fingers. OUCH !

-- What started as a hobbie is now a full time JOB!

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Dallas

3599 posts in 1882 days


#15 posted 09-15-2012 04:06 PM

That made my stomach hurt just watching it. You know the feeling, like watching as the twin towers fell or as the Challenger came apart.

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

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pintodeluxe

4784 posts in 2208 days


#16 posted 09-15-2012 04:14 PM

I have not experienced kickback since highschool woodshop 20 yeras ago. Dull blade, and poor fence.
A splitter helps.
The biggest change is that I use straight freshly jointed lumber. The old woodshop used whatever they had laying around. I also use a magnetic featherboard and saw-handle pushstick. And I would never cut a piece that short.
I guess I have all kinds of safety rules that I use, but don’t even think about.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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IsaacH

128 posts in 1492 days


#17 posted 09-15-2012 04:23 PM

Im putting a link to this thread on the safety tips thread I just started!!!

-- Isaac- Decatur, GA - "Your woodworking....NOT machining parts for NASA!!!"

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DocSavage45

7608 posts in 2238 days


#18 posted 09-15-2012 04:40 PM

Woodworking is a violent action that produces often beautiful results. As my dad said the more power the bigger the mistake. (when i asked to use his power tools as a kid!) Been looking into retro fitting riving knife attatchments. Appears that they only work with straight cuts?

-- Cau Haus Designs, Thomas J. Tieffenbacher

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syenefarmer

426 posts in 2476 days


#19 posted 09-15-2012 04:50 PM

I experienced kickback once with my table saw and that was enough to make me extremely careful when using it for the rest of my life. Fortunately, I was standing off to the side and didn’t get hit. My toolbox, which was clear across the other side of the room, was not so lucky and will sport a rather large dent for the rest of its life.

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HorizontalMike

7059 posts in 2309 days


#20 posted 09-15-2012 05:30 PM

I saw this about 3-years ago or so, when I was “shopping” for my FIRST real table saw. I have to admit that THAT kick-back was the reason that I went with “new”, because all of the “newer” TS’s had the required Riving knives. I never did like the over-the-blade blade guards and the reviews on them were the pits. The advent of the tool-less removable riving knife finally convinced me to pull the trigger on a new G0690.

FWIW, this is why I would never buy an old/older model table saw, even though many LJs just love their old “unisaws” and such. Nostalgia is just NOT a good enough reason for ME to ignore this (riving knife) feature in the newer saws. SawStop, on the other hand, I CAN ignore. But that is just my 2-cents…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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AJswoodshop

1057 posts in 1672 days


#21 posted 09-15-2012 05:38 PM

That is scary! I have only had my TS kickback at me one time. I wasn’t using a riving knife, and the board turned and shot back at me.

AJ

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Bob Kollman

1798 posts in 2586 days


#22 posted 09-15-2012 05:43 PM

The guy was an idiot as he said in the video. To intentionally cause a kick back and using a push block that positions your hand within three inches of the saw blade to start is retarded. I make my own push blocks and the small one keeps my hand at 4” above the saw blade. When a board kicks back it is going to take your hand toward the blade.

-- Bob Kenosha Wi.

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Moron

5032 posts in 3288 days


#23 posted 09-15-2012 06:11 PM

I think if more people saw in person how gory woodworking can be, how the senseless slaughter of fingers, hands, eyes and more, are mangled into pate, beyond repair, tool sales would drop.

For mere mortals like me, I pick up the pieces, lick my wounds, and move forward for victory has sweet rewards in the world of woodworking.

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Ralph

166 posts in 1528 days


#24 posted 09-15-2012 06:22 PM

Its a good thing I haven’t had dinner yet! My stomach turned upside down !
Thanks for the post. We need to be constantly reminded how quickly we can get hurt.
Like Lee said above, the tip of a 10” blade is running at about 100MPH, or about 145 fps. By the time we realize that something happened , it all over.
Some time ago I did a stupid thing. I was cutting a SMALL piece of thin hardboard on a RAS. I was lucky that I was not standing directly in front of the blade. I heard a bang and the hardboard disappeared. I found it three weeks later, in a closet in the next room. The blade shot the hardboard clean through the sheet rock. I was lucky to come out of this unscathed.
We should revisit that video from time to time.
Thanks again for the post.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

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404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 2364 days


#25 posted 09-15-2012 09:23 PM

His hand came close to the blade didn’t it? Too close for comfort.

I personally think those push down push sticks are the worst invention ever – when something like that happens you’re hands may be away from the blade but they’re at the same level.

Scary.

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oldnovice

5599 posts in 2763 days


#26 posted 09-15-2012 09:29 PM

To bad kick backs don’t have the same effect on our congress!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

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Mike Gager

665 posts in 2662 days


#27 posted 09-16-2012 01:19 AM

he should make another video demonstrating what would happen if the guard and splitter were in place.

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BentheViking

1763 posts in 1959 days


#28 posted 09-16-2012 03:29 AM

I think i’ll reinstall my riving knife tomorrow…

I’ve shared this story before but I was on a job once and bent down to pick something off the floor and someone on the TS had a kickback. My head was directly in line to get hit, luckily my tool bag was on top of the table and took the hit. I was wearing a hardhat at the time oddly enough, but who really wears a hardhat when they are woodworking?

-- It's made of wood. Real sturdy.--Chubbs Peterson

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716

502 posts in 312 days


#29 posted 01-21-2016 06:00 PM

That is strange, I was hit recently by a small, about 1×2x2, off-cut that somehow ended on the top of the blade and was thrown back at me. Scary but actually did not even hurt ( well it did but not intolerable) and definitely no stitches and no blood.
That was a cheap saw with a direct drive collector motor rotating at 5300 rpm i.e. much faster than a stationary table saw.

-- It's nice!

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MrUnix

3954 posts in 1594 days


#30 posted 01-21-2016 06:30 PM

I had all the safety parts installed and I was using a cross cut sled. Well that 2” cut off piece from the 2” x 4” decided to hit the back of the blade and came screaming back and hit me just above the eye. So much for the blade guard and anti-kickback!!!

Huh? You were using a cross cut sled, which virtually eliminates the chance of a violent kickback, and also had the blade guard and splitter w/anti-kickback pawls installed? I would love to see a picture of this sled you were using.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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716

502 posts in 312 days


#31 posted 01-21-2016 07:21 PM


I had all the safety parts installed and I was using a cross cut sled. Well that 2” cut off piece from the 2” x 4” decided to hit the back of the blade and came screaming back and hit me just above the eye. So much for the blade guard and anti-kickback!!!

Huh? You were using a cross cut sled, which virtually eliminates the chance of a violent kickback, and also had the blade guard and splitter w/anti-kickback pawls installed? I would love to see a picture of this sled you were using.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Apparently the guy with his false story that promotes his business was removed by moderators, so no chance he shares his sled design :-)
( But because unlike you I did not quote the original post mine looks stupid now without the context)

-- It's nice!

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DTOLAR

28 posts in 418 days


#32 posted 01-21-2016 09:01 PM

I had my router snatch a wood piece and literally throw it from my shop, behind the house, all the way to the front yard

twice I have had the table saw kick something back, once it was a 4×4x1” piece of pine, it hit a trash bag of saw dust about 6 ft back and buried up in it.

The other time I was reaching for the off switch on the saw and it caught a piece of 1×1x6”, hit me just to the left of the belly button, bounced up and got my left shoulder, and on up over my left ear. (I’m left handed and my wife was helping me, we were making lots of rip cuts, I was standing to the right of the blade, she couldnt find the off switch, which is to the left, so I had to reach across, only takes a second.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2410 posts in 1909 days


#33 posted 01-21-2016 09:39 PM

Wow, why did he think he was doing us a favor by showing that? What if his finger or hand had actually touched and been pulled in? Would he have still produced the video?

And I agree that was the wrong push block for a table saw. That is what I use on my jointer. I use a much higher handled push block on my table saw, AND I never run the blade without the riving knife.

I guess thanks to him for being an idiot. He should think up more constructive things to do with his expensive power tools.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

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716

502 posts in 312 days


#34 posted 01-21-2016 09:59 PM



I had my router snatch a wood piece and literally throw it from my shop, behind the house, all the way to the front yard

twice I have had the table saw kick something back, once it was a 4×4x1” piece of pine, it hit a trash bag of saw dust about 6 ft back and buried up in it.

The other time I was reaching for the off switch on the saw and it caught a piece of 1×1x6”, hit me just to the left of the belly button, bounced up and got my left shoulder, and on up over my left ear. (I m left handed and my wife was helping me, we were making lots of rip cuts, I was standing to the right of the blade, she couldnt find the off switch, which is to the left, so I had to reach across, only takes a second.

- DTOLAR


Why wouldn’t you move the switch or better yet install another one on the right.

-- It's nice!

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MinnesotaHack

18 posts in 298 days


#35 posted 01-21-2016 10:09 PM

He’s a dumba** twice.

1-intentionally create a kickback.
2-use unsafe materials and processes when doing so.

This is the woodworking equivalent of testing a bullet proof vest by strapping it on your body and issuing the command to fire.

If I ever get so foolish as to want to demonstrate kickback, I hope I employ my remaining senses and use soft materials (large chunk of Styrofoam) and looooong push stick not push block to prevent possible contact of my hand with the blade.

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TiggerWood

271 posts in 1001 days


#36 posted 01-21-2016 10:26 PM



That is strange, I was hit recently by a small, about 1×2x2, off-cut that somehow ended on the top of the blade and was thrown back at me. Scary but actually did not even hurt ( well it did but not intolerable) and definitely no stitches and no blood.
That was a cheap saw with a direct drive collector motor rotating at 5300 rpm i.e. much faster than a stationary table saw.

- 716


My biggest concern with kickback is my hand getting pulled into the blade like the video shows. I use a long thin push stick and not a handled block so that, if kickback (or something) happens, the stick just gets knocked out of my finger tips.

My other concern is, I cut rough lumber on my table saw that may have a sharp point or freshly squared lumber with sharp edges that can slice like a knife.

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AZWoody

671 posts in 619 days


#37 posted 01-21-2016 10:51 PM

I don’t understand the criticism of how he did it. Even though he was stupid, he actually showed how easy it is for a hand to be pulled into the blade with a kickback. Using a different push block wouldn’t make much of a difference as the hand gets pulled to the blade, regardless of how much higher the hand is.

It goes to show that no matter how fast people think their reflexes are, or how carefully they watch their board, a kickback is something that occurs faster than can be handled.

A pushstick will help with the hand, but the velocity of the piece flying at you can cause bodily injury as well.

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AZWoody

671 posts in 619 days


#38 posted 01-21-2016 10:51 PM

dbl post

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