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View DKV's profile

Mitered Return

by DKV
posted 09-10-2012 03:21 AM


31 replies so far

View Moron's profile

Moron

5032 posts in 4072 days


#1 posted 09-10-2012 03:30 AM

back cut the miter ?

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Moron

5032 posts in 4072 days


#2 posted 09-10-2012 03:31 AM

its called an “outside “ back cut

google it ?

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 2682 days


#3 posted 09-10-2012 03:34 AM

Moron the baseboard at the bottom of the steps ends in a 45 degree face cut and 45 degree backcut. I have cut a hundred pieces of wood trying to make the return. No luck. I can’t wrap my head around it… Oh well, I’ll either end up running out of practice wood or not running the baseboard down the steps.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8492 posts in 2755 days


#4 posted 09-10-2012 03:35 AM

Pictures?

View Moron's profile

Moron

5032 posts in 4072 days


#5 posted 09-10-2012 03:38 AM

its easy ?

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Moron

5032 posts in 4072 days


#6 posted 09-10-2012 03:40 AM

trying to teach

the barn door

is simple

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Moron's profile

Moron

5032 posts in 4072 days


#7 posted 09-10-2012 04:00 AM

if yr serious, and u never r

“PICS”

otherwise

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 3147 days


#8 posted 09-10-2012 11:25 AM

I might be wrong here, but from my understanding of your problem, you shouldn’t be attempting to compound mitre those cuts.

You cannot change the laws of physics. i.e The piece running at the angle will always be higher at the end because you have increased it’s height at the end by changing the angle from 90 deg

You need to do a little capping on the piece that sits at the same pitch as the stairs to get it all to fit.

Is the pitch of the stairs 45 deg? (42 is max allowable here)

View vipond33's profile

vipond33

1405 posts in 2676 days


#9 posted 09-11-2012 12:21 AM

For all those non-impossible angles, hunt down and get one of these. From Shopsmith no less!

It will give you, in 3 seconds, any compound angle settings involving 3-8 sides and from 5-85 degrees on the slope. No batteries or internet connection required. If there is any interest I may scan and post the inner sleeve so that you may print and assemble your own. A relic from 1981 that I have used many times to simplify my work.

gene

-- gene@toronto.ontario.canada : dovetail free since '53, critiques always welcome.

View Moron's profile

Moron

5032 posts in 4072 days


#10 posted 09-12-2012 02:03 AM

very clever ideas

but what about this one

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View ,'s profile

,

2387 posts in 3725 days


#11 posted 09-12-2012 02:10 AM

I think I know what you want to do. With crown molding we use 2 end cap pieces that are both cut at a 22.5 degree angle. These two pieces will return the crown to the wall making a very nice looking ending.

-- .

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 2682 days


#12 posted 09-12-2012 02:36 AM

Guys, the picture below is what I’m up against (mentally challenged). If you look at the picture the baseboard ends with a 90 degree mitered return. Looks nice and not a problem to cut. Now let’s say the baseboard continued on down the steps and ends at the bottom step with a vertical cut. It is the last cut at the bottom of the steps that I want to place a mitered return to finish it out. Thanks.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View Moron's profile

Moron

5032 posts in 4072 days


#13 posted 09-12-2012 02:52 AM

solved ?

doing it right is easy, just spend 30 years of your life, focused 110% 50 to 100 hrs a week every flippen day after flippen day after flippen day, week after week and year after year, decades disappear like the Nile river and all its stories of history : ))

to meet a pointless deadline?

10,000 hr theory. When you have 40,000 hrs clocked, there are some things you learn, that cannot be answered with stupid words.

s…..o…..s

I moved to greener pastures : ))

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Moron

5032 posts in 4072 days


#14 posted 09-12-2012 03:09 AM

some people have “limitations”

the quicker we learn our own “limitations”

the more we learn to trust ?

Rip it out and hire someone to do it right

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 3147 days


#15 posted 09-12-2012 07:33 AM

Moron, will you go over and do that little job for DKV, show him how to do it

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 3147 days


#16 posted 09-12-2012 08:58 AM

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DKV

3940 posts in 2682 days


#17 posted 09-12-2012 04:36 PM

Renners, I want to end with a vertical cut and then add mitered return…

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View Doss's profile

Doss

779 posts in 2443 days


#18 posted 09-12-2012 04:44 PM

Usually, if I run into issues with cuts like this, I’ll cut it conservatively and then sneak up to the cut after test fitting and marking it. And, if you’re performing a compound miter cut, I’d cut one and make sure it’s right before I cut the other. I wouldn’t try to do both if I’m trying to get it right the “first” time. I don’t do trim carpentry every day so I’m not concerned about speed… just materials.

The problem with houses and most structures in the real world is what it should be on paper is rarely how it is as-built. Walls aren’t square (or flat for that matter), angles aren’t exact, foundations settle, fatigue moves pieces, etc.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 3147 days


#19 posted 09-12-2012 04:47 PM

Don, I do not believe you will be able to do that without first adding a stepped portion on to the end.

Could you cope the outside of the end instead?

Might be the easiest and neatest solution for the effect you are after.

View Doss's profile

Doss

779 posts in 2443 days


#20 posted 09-12-2012 05:07 PM

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you want these two pieces to be like the mitered corner of a picture frame (full width boards with all face profiles lining up), the angles you cut them at will have to be equal to allow the profile (lines) of the board to match each other on the face.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 2682 days


#21 posted 09-12-2012 05:52 PM

Doss, I want to end the baseboard coming down the steps at whatever angle will achieve a vertical cut. I don’t want to extend the baseboard beyond the bottom step. I would also like to finish the cut with a nice mitered return. It seems physically impossible. I guess all mitered returns at the end of baseboard must end at 90 degrees.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View Doss's profile

Doss

779 posts in 2443 days


#22 posted 09-12-2012 05:59 PM

DKV, for the miter to match, you’ll need to cut both the baseboard and return at the same angle to get the lines/profile to match.

I am not an expert crown or base molding installer though, but it makes sense if you put two mitered boards together and see what I mean.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

View DS's profile

DS

3025 posts in 2599 days


#23 posted 09-12-2012 06:02 PM

The problem is that by cutting the end at an angle to the face, you are “stretching” the profile along the end. You could not expect a return peice to match up to the face and look proper.

One option is to cut the end off along your angle and use a coping saw to imitate the elongated profile along the edge. You would have to fill any back cuts that may exist on your molding, but this shouldn’t be too difficult.

If I had a choice, I would maybe use a variation on renners’ model by just making the top portion of the lower leg as short as possible. The profile then makes the turn, but not the overall molding. This would then give you the same profile at the edge and no “carving” involved.

Hope that helps you.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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DS

3025 posts in 2599 days


#24 posted 09-12-2012 06:14 PM

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8492 posts in 2755 days


#25 posted 09-12-2012 06:19 PM

I might suggest you use hand tools to achieve the look you want.
As stated above, the profile stretches, and hand tools will achieve your
goals.

View Doss's profile

Doss

779 posts in 2443 days


#26 posted 09-12-2012 06:40 PM

Here’s what they’re (and I’m talking about) using example dimensions. These boards are exactly the same besides one having a 90° (actually a 45° miter relative to the cut board):

If your baseboard is the same exact angle as the cut on your return, the miters will not match. You can see how the 90° cut causes the profile to “stretch” which causes an alignment issue with the return.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 2682 days


#27 posted 09-12-2012 06:50 PM

Doss, your picture above is my struggle. Since I can’t “stretch” the return I have two choices:
1. End the baseboard coming down the steps at a 90 and put a return on it. I don’t like the look.
2. “Sculpt” an end to match the side view. I’ll try that with my Dremel.
Thanks for all the help guys. And nonhelp from some of you. When I want to be serious some of you think seriousness is beyond my comprehension and ability to act. Close but no biscuit…

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View Surfside's profile

Surfside

3389 posts in 2352 days


#28 posted 09-12-2012 07:00 PM

I wanted to help you DKV, but I didn’t know the answer too!

-- "someone has to be wounded for others to be saved, someone has to sacrifice for others to feel happiness, someone has to die so others could live"

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2288 days


#29 posted 09-12-2012 07:15 PM

You can also “Bend” the molding the other way. Have it die into the stair riser, instead of the wall.

Think of the top edge of the molding as reaching the stopping point, then flowing straight down to the floor.

Measure the angle between the rise of your staircase and vertical. Divide it in half, and cut the molding to fit.

View DKV's profile

DKV

3940 posts in 2682 days


#30 posted 09-12-2012 07:48 PM

Jonathon and Cessna, I’m going to have to come clean. The molding will actually be 36” above the stairs and will serve as the base for a handrail. I used the molding along the steps scenario because I thought it would be easier to talk about. Since I do not have a step to “die” into I will use Jonathon’s approach. Filling in the triangle at the bottom will be no problem. Even thought the lines on the return “slant” up I think it looks kind of cool. Like an arrow at the end… Sorry for the mislead, my fault. Just thought it would be easier to get my point across. Whatever I do I will post pix at the end. I might even run the baseboard to the floor at the end. That might be a unique look. I could even run the other end of the baseboard to the floor. I would then have a staircase “ballister” look. I might even put a “ballister at the angle point between the top landing and starting down the stairs. Hmmmm, that’s something to play with. I’ve never seen that…Has anyone?

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

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OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2288 days


#31 posted 09-12-2012 08:41 PM

That works!

For others following along:

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