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View missingdigitworkshop's profile

Blade will not lower completely below table

by missingdigitworkshop
posted 727 days ago


39 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

7431 posts in 2281 days


#1 posted 727 days ago

There will be a mechanical point where the mechanism
bottoms out. The likely cause is there is sawdust packed
in there preventing the mechanism from going to its
end point.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View missingdigitworkshop's profile

missingdigitworkshop

142 posts in 1761 days


#2 posted 727 days ago

Loren: I checked for dust and chips and have blown it clean but still can not get the blade to go completely into the table. Is there possibly something that could have gotten out of whack that I need to adjust?

-- Do not be discouraged by those who don't. Be inspired by those who do.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5425 posts in 2008 days


#3 posted 727 days ago

Did you check the gears for something binding?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1266 days


#4 posted 727 days ago

Perhaps the threaded rod that accuates the elevation mechanism is corroded, dirty, or stripped? Might be worth taking an old toothbrush and scrubbing the rod with some machine oil.

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1266 days


#5 posted 727 days ago

Oh and just for grins, work the blade lock back and forth a few times.

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1131 posts in 1396 days


#6 posted 727 days ago

Digit – I have the same problem. I’ve scrubbed, oiled, twisted, checked, moved, hammered, cursed, to no avail. It is what it is.

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

View Scott Wunder's profile

Scott Wunder

13 posts in 732 days


#7 posted 727 days ago

It is frustrating when the only table in your shop that has a chance to have a clear work surface on it, is also the one with a blade sticking out. I have an old Delta Unisaw that does the same thing. Mine will lower completely if I grab the handwheel and pull it towards me. There is some hidden slop in there that doesn’t show up otherwise. When I do this the blade drops about 1/8 inch and doesn’t stick up above the table.

-- Scott Wunder, WunderWoods, St. Charles, MO. Read my sawmilling and woodworking blog at http://www.wunderwoods.com

View okwoodshop's profile

okwoodshop

442 posts in 1808 days


#8 posted 727 days ago

“CRAPSMAN” nuff said??

View toolie's profile

toolie

1742 posts in 1261 days


#9 posted 726 days ago

scott…... that “slops’ is, i believe, adjustable. check where the elevation rod intersects with the motor bracket. it’s not easy to inspect with the table and motor in place, but i believe there is a fix for it.

okwoodshop….... would that all tools today were made as well as those old emerson electric built TSs sold by sears and ridgid. i have one of them, with a t-2 fence on it that would have to be pried out of my cold dead hand before i’d give it up. i’m selling my unisaw to make room for the two emerson built 10” CI contractor TSs i have. maybe a lot of sears” recent products qualify as “CRAPSMAN”, but it’s hard to malign a well maintained 113 series c-man table saw that’s equiped with a proper fence, IMHO.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1369 posts in 1266 days


#10 posted 726 days ago

yep. A 113. table saw develops a minor issue after 20+ years of use, and someone calls it a “crapsman”. LOL.
What should we call the Scott’s Unisaw that has the same problem. :)

I also have a 113. with a T2 and am 100% satisfied. And if my 113 developed the mentioned issue, I’d buy another $75 113 off craigslist, slap on the T2, and keep on truckin.

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3098 posts in 1308 days


#11 posted 726 days ago

Have you checked for a mechanical stop on the htreaded rod? I think some of those saws had a collar with a set screw that stopped the mechanism.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5425 posts in 2008 days


#12 posted 726 days ago

”“CRAPSMAN” nuff said??”

Why not just insult his wife and kids? It’d be just as helpful, and no less offensive.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Tenfingers58's profile

Tenfingers58

78 posts in 1311 days


#13 posted 726 days ago

I realize this does not fix the underlying problem but this is what I would do. Cut a piece of plywood, put a skirt around the bottom edge so it can’t slide on the table top. Cut a recess for the blade in the bottom.

This gives you a flat surface to work on without having to remove the blade all the time.

Another possibility would be to use a smaller blade.

View okwoodshop's profile

okwoodshop

442 posts in 1808 days


#14 posted 726 days ago

I apologize to all the CRAFTSMAN owners on here, I just have never had any of there tools that worked properly or lasted long. will keep my big mouth shut from now on.

View toolie's profile

toolie

1742 posts in 1261 days


#15 posted 725 days ago

grandpa…..on those saws, i am pretty sure those stop collars were only on the tilt mechanisms.

tenfingers50…..how would one use the TS fence with that adaptation?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1131 posts in 1396 days


#16 posted 725 days ago

okwoodshop – I agree with you about CRAPSMAN tools of the present variety, which I believe is Ryobi, prior to Sears changing mfgs. Now that is CRAP ! I have returned EVERY Ryobi tool I have ever purchased – JUNK ! All my Craftsman tools are prior to the change, which are Emerson / Ridgid .

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

View missingdigitworkshop's profile

missingdigitworkshop

142 posts in 1761 days


#17 posted 725 days ago

Thanks for all the advice.
I have had this saw for nine years and have worked around this problem but finally decided it was time to fix it.

This saw is my second table saw to own and was a major upgrade from a Skil Table Top. I paid $80 dollars for it and had to rebuild just about everything on it once I gotg through the rust, so I have a special attachment to it. As far as “okwoodshop” I agree, as others have, if you are talking about the new machines but this saw has been a true work horse and a great machine. I will eventually upgrade but will always keep this saw; unlike the Skil Table Top that I almost felt bad for the guy I gave it to because of its poor performance.

Thanks again for all the input.

-- Do not be discouraged by those who don't. Be inspired by those who do.

View rance's profile

rance

4130 posts in 1793 days


#18 posted 725 days ago

mdw, has it been like this since day one? If not, then I’d put $100 on the stop being caked with sawdust(even though you blew it all out). Did you specifically find the stop and clean it off? The Saw Stop in the classroom did this a year or two ago. Cleaned it off, and all is well. Although finding that little spot was a bear.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View Tenfingers58's profile

Tenfingers58

78 posts in 1311 days


#19 posted 725 days ago

Toolie,

Just lift it off to use the saw. I was thinking of using the saw top as a flat assembly table. I usually cut all my pieces before assembly so covering the saw top would not be a big deal for me.

View joewilliams's profile

joewilliams

88 posts in 757 days


#20 posted 725 days ago

The part number: “113.12171” is for the motor only…is there another tag on the machine with a part number? I might be able to find a pdf with a blow apart diagram that would help identify what is blocking the complete lowering of the blade.

-- Joe - - - something witty should go here - - -

View Loren's profile

Loren

7431 posts in 2281 days


#21 posted 725 days ago

Are you sure you are running a 10” blade in the saw
and not a 10-1/4” ?

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View missingdigitworkshop's profile

missingdigitworkshop

142 posts in 1761 days


#22 posted 725 days ago

Joewilliams: You are right, the model numbner is 113.299040
Loren: Yep it is only a 10” blade.

-- Do not be discouraged by those who don't. Be inspired by those who do.

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2833 posts in 881 days


#23 posted 725 days ago

How tight is your belt? A friend of mine had a similar saw and noticed he could tension the belt enough to actually raise the blade. Try releasing the belt tension and see if the blade drops.

Also for all you “crapsman” haters, check out my review on the new professional router. That thing is amazing. I’m not saying all (or any other) of their tools are great, but they are capable of putting out a good product.

Edit – also check the bolt/washer on the motor mount that connects the motor to the “hinge”. That doesn’t need to be hammered down. It is just there to reduce vibration. That could be your issue as well – either bolt too right or incorrect washer. That piece isn’t even needed other than vibration reduction.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1010 days


#24 posted 725 days ago

Evidently MDW’s problem is a lot worst than mine.
I have check out several Craftsman 113 table saws and the barely lowers below the throat plate. I have been wanting to lower mine at least 1/4” below the table top but just not sure how. I do have a picture to the cradle with the height adjust ACME screw. Take a look, any mechanical guys out there know how to adjust it? Where is that adjustment at?

The photos show the arbor at the lowest possible position.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View Loren's profile

Loren

7431 posts in 2281 days


#25 posted 725 days ago

This is my theory:

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3710 posts in 2001 days


#26 posted 725 days ago

Just as a double check, is the blade oversize?

On my 45 year old Craftsman TS the blade goes below the surface but it is and always has been difficult to raise and lower compared to comparable saws.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View joewilliams's profile

joewilliams

88 posts in 757 days


#27 posted 725 days ago

Found it!.......you can download a PDF manual HERE

Somewhere around page 38 there is a blow apart diagram and the parts list around #44-46 seem to refer to a “stop” of some kind.

Looks like Lorens’ suggestion above is worth trying.

-- Joe - - - something witty should go here - - -

View rance's profile

rance

4130 posts in 1793 days


#28 posted 725 days ago

I disagree. I believe the arbor housing(55) bottoms against the cradle(41). See below:

This is where I expect that sawdust has caked up and is stopping it from fully lowering. No amount of adjusting will let it lower any more than shown in this picture.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1850 posts in 2194 days


#29 posted 725 days ago

If there is no foreign material in there, some judicious filing to remove excess metal will fix it.

-- Joe

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5425 posts in 2008 days


#30 posted 724 days ago

It’d decrease your cutting height a bit, but you could add some spacers between the trunnion brackets and the table to lower the hole assembly….you’d probably need longer bolts. You could also spin 9” blades.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1010 days


#31 posted 724 days ago

Here is a picture from the blade side. Definitely no adjustment there.

Taking Loren’s suggest from above. I put the crank wheel back on and raise ther arbor. Now you can clearly see the stop. The bad news is that there are no adjustments. It is just a hard stop. The design allows someone to drop the assembly in place and he/she is done.

You can grind part of it out. There is a lip there and it appears to hit the stop pin first. There is some geometry here. Looks like you are at the bottom of the curve where you have to grind alot to gain height adjust (think of a circle in a X Y coordinate system). The ACME screw is stationary length wise and just truns. What harm is there if the round stop pin is gone?

To me, it is an Emerson mess up. Quality should of check the overall blade height relative to the table top at the bottom postion to confirm Engineering’s design and manufacturing. What is a fair requirement (distance) for the blade to be below the table top? I think 1/4” is reasonable. I would think there are TS with 1/2” or more (I used to have a Delts and don’t have this problem).

Since my TS blade at the bottom position is about 1/16-1/32” below the table, I am considering grinding the left end of that stop (the curve part of the lip).

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1010 days


#32 posted 724 days ago

to lower the blade:

I might be simpler to just shim it. Just loosen all the cradle mounting bolts (attached to the table) and add some washers. If necessary use long bolts. You will have realign your arbor so the blade will be parallel to the slots. and to get rid of the wobble on the blade. What do you guys think????

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View Loren's profile

Loren

7431 posts in 2281 days


#33 posted 724 days ago

There’s this old idea of upgrading a contractor saw by switching the
trunnion bolts to grade 5 bolts. They fit better in the tapped
holes and don’t vibrate loose.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3710 posts in 2001 days


#34 posted 724 days ago

Hhhopks,

You are correct, I believe that is probably where the problem originated.

An overzealous grind one the underside table top carriage mounting bosses raised the entire assembly!

Or, the grind on the carriage mounting surfaces removed too much material, again with the same result.

I would suspect one of those two before I would grind a relief for the arbor.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1010 days


#35 posted 724 days ago

Oldnovice,
I didn’t think of the manufacturing process. I was focusing on the solution.
But I like your theory. People covering up mistakes and not looking at the big picture. The table and cradle could very well made by different Emerson vendors or at least different departments. It may have been a band-aid fix. As long as the table is not assembled, or assembled without the blade, who would know? If it is fully assembled with a blade, who would show off a table saw with the blade on the bottom position?

Will it be worth it? All the tuning…....
Oh yeah, another benefit, You will much simpler to make your own zero clearnce plate! I have never mess with it because of the blade issue. I just need to find the time and do it.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3710 posts in 2001 days


#36 posted 724 days ago

Hhhopks,

In my career I worked in many different phases of product development including manufacturing engineering and when things like this happens there are the usual suspects:
  1. bad parts from one or both vendors, lack of incoming inspection
  2. in house process issues if the parts are made in house, lack of in process inspection
  3. lack of final assembly quality assurance, they don’t check it when it was all assembled

There is and adage used in manufacturing “if something can go wrong, it will!”

That is why I jumped on that as a possible problem!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1010 days


#37 posted 710 days ago

I decided to work on my saw by shimming it with washers. The cradle is bolted on by 6 bolts (3 in the front & 3 in the back). Because the center of the pivot point of the tilt is also lowered, your insert plates will no longer work properly. As you tilt to the blade, the blade will start rubbing the plate before it gets to 45 deg. This method requires new inserts.

I decided to get rid of the washers and grind down the slot stop position. It works pretty well. I can get the blade tip almost aobut 1/4” below the table surface. Before I was at about 1/16”.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3710 posts in 2001 days


#38 posted 710 days ago

I assume you are pleased and happy with the results!

I think that was your best solution and you probably corrected a manufacturing process error!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1010 days


#39 posted 709 days ago

Yes, so far.
Now, I have to tune everything. It is a bit of work.
Before, after lower the blade, I am always worry that something might snag the blade (including my hands).

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

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