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Table Saw Choice

by Lothar
posted 08-27-2012 02:12 PM


36 replies so far

View Cole Tallerman's profile

Cole Tallerman

392 posts in 871 days


#1 posted 08-27-2012 02:21 PM

Defiantly the General. It is a good company and that saw looks to be newer and has a far better fence then the other saws. Over everything, i would suggest waiting for a cabinet saw but the general should do just fine.

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15706 posts in 2905 days


#2 posted 08-27-2012 02:26 PM

General has a good reputation, and that appears to be a better built saw than the Delta. It appears to have cast iron wings while the Delta does not, and the fence looks more robust as well. I can’t really say anything about the Craftsman one way or the other.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View JayT's profile (online now)

JayT

2392 posts in 897 days


#3 posted 08-27-2012 02:52 PM

$400-$500 is way overpriced for a used contractor saw. That model Delta sold for ~$550-600 new, so even in pristine condition should be priced used for less than $300. Don’t know as much about the General, but it is in the same range. It does have a decent fence, so that ups the value a bit, but not to $500 IMHO.

The Craftsman is the closest to being priced correctly. I might be willing to offer 300 on that model in really good condition.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

3496 posts in 2647 days


#4 posted 08-27-2012 03:10 PM

General, but negotiate the price. The cast iron wings are a real plus.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5513 posts in 2062 days


#5 posted 08-27-2012 03:12 PM

The GI at least has solid cast wings, and an excellent Biese fence. It’s a good saw, but $500 is a tad steep for what is essentially an outdated design (no riving knife).

The Delta is too much for an older contractor saw with steel wings and a starter fence.

The 22114 could be a good deal…solid cast wings, cabinet mounted trunnions, and nearly 400# of heft, but the fence is a bit marginal. You could add something like a Delta T2 for $158 shipped, sell the stock fence for $50-$75, and have a nice hybrid with a good fence, solid cast wings, and cabinet mounted trunnions for ~ $425 out of pocket.

The R4512 has a riving knife, steel wings, and a marginal fence.

I’d go for the 22114 with an updated fence, or the GI…hopefully for a bit less than $500.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15706 posts in 2905 days


#6 posted 08-27-2012 03:49 PM

For those commenting that the General saw is priced too high, I would point out that the cheapest retail price I could find on the internet was $1,000.

I can’t say whether the saw is really worth $1,000 or not, I’m just saying $500 represents a big discount over retail.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5513 posts in 2062 days


#7 posted 08-27-2012 04:03 PM

The General “International” 50-185M1 (not a Canadian made General) is very similar to the PM64a, which I think is also overpriced at current retail of $1K. I bought one new in 2003….going rate was around $700, and it was one of the better buys back then for an older style contractor saw with the outboard motor, connecting rods, and a traditional splitter….hybrids were’nt very popular then. It’s also very similar to the former Jet, former Griz G0576, Bridgewood, etc. I upgraded from the GI to the Cman 22124 with the Biese fence….the 22124 had cabinet mounted trunnions, very similar fence, full enclosure, 44” of solid cast iron surface, and weighted ~ 425# vs 300# for the GI. Both were good saws with excellent fences, but the 22124 had most of the advantages IME. The GI had a motor rated at 2hp vs the 1.75hp for the 22124, but it was easier to get the alignment dead on with the 22124, plus it had a more efficient drive belt, so the 22124 ended up with slightly better ripping power (IMHO).

The 22114 is pretty similar to the 22124 but with a 3/4 enclosure, lesser fence, and possibly 1/4hp less motor. I don’t think $500 is a terrible price for the GI in nice shape, but it’s not a steal, and I think the 22114 offers a better buy with the fence upgrade (if it’s in good shape….no pic shown on that one).

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View AJswoodshop's profile

AJswoodshop

1057 posts in 963 days


#8 posted 08-27-2012 04:20 PM

I would get the General, great machine! If you could get the general at $400 dollars, that would be a great deal!

AJ

-- If I can do it.....so can you! -AJswoodshop

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1379 days


#9 posted 08-27-2012 04:21 PM

Another vote for the General. Although the Rigid enjoys a pretty good reputation here. Price is right, too, for a new tool.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View JayT's profile (online now)

JayT

2392 posts in 897 days


#10 posted 08-27-2012 04:44 PM

I see where you are coming from Charlie.

Here is my take and why I, personally, feel that it is overpriced. The prices of contractor style saws have really jumped in the past few years, due to the additional safety features and the price of cast iron, but I base used pricing on 1/2 of when that unit was new, not what a current new model would cost. When that General was new, it was probably around $700-750. 1/2 of that means starting around $350, add a bit for the upgrades and it says $400 to me, not $500.

All that said, regional differences and will come into play. I see used saws that are the same level of these priced $200-300 in my area often enough to not spend a bunch more than that. Different areas of the country will have variations. If good used saws get snapped up quckly, then it might be worth $500 to someone else in another part of the country.

-- "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville, 1835

View James 's profile

James

138 posts in 1612 days


#11 posted 08-27-2012 04:46 PM

A lot of people seem to really like the R4512 in spite of a few its short comings but for $529 you get a brand new saw with a riving knife and an integrated mobile base. I have bought a couple saws off CL and have not had great success and whenever I do decide to buy another saw it will most certainly have a riving knife.

View RogerM's profile

RogerM

451 posts in 1085 days


#12 posted 08-27-2012 05:07 PM

Forget the Craftsman and go with the General. The Delta would be my second choice. A riving knife is not a big deal in my opinion.

-- Roger M, Aiken, SC

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15706 posts in 2905 days


#13 posted 08-27-2012 05:51 PM

I can’t argue with your reasoning, Jay. Personally, I usually feel like if I can get something in good used condition for 1/2 of what it would cost me to go out and buy a brand new one it is a good deal. But having said that, I’m not sure any contractor saw (other than maybe a Sawstop) is worth $1,000.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View toolie's profile

toolie

1768 posts in 1315 days


#14 posted 08-27-2012 07:01 PM

ridgid 4512. if a HD honoring the harbor freight “20% off any single item” coupon can be located, the price goes from $500 to $400. it’s features make it a winner (CI table, included mobile base, riving knife, hybrid design) and the LSA can’t hurt. BTW, ridgid’s stationary power tools do not carry a lifetime warranty. they are eligible for registration with ridgid’s lifetime service agreement (free parts and labor for life).

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View JK0702's profile

JK0702

49 posts in 818 days


#15 posted 08-27-2012 07:16 PM

I have 2 Delta Contractor saws and love them both. However, I think at $400 the one you’re looking at is over priced. I have seen them on CL for between $250-$350 routinely. There’s nothing I haven’t been able to do on these saws. I really didn’t need two, but one was given to me. I set it up with a dado blade and use it specifically for that now. I haven’t used the General or Rigid, but the Craftsman isn’t nearly the saw the Delta is IMHO. I’d recommend negotiating the price on the Delta, I bet you can get it for a lot less.

-- John - Huntington Beach CA

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

555 posts in 885 days


#16 posted 08-27-2012 07:24 PM

I have bought a couple saws off CL and have not had great success

Why? The great thing about CL (as opposed to many online auctions such as e-bay) is that you get to touch and feel the thing before you purchase. If it’s not up to snuff, you can walk away or offer a stupid low price just to use it as a parts machine. I have had nothing but phenomenal success with every CL purchase I have made. And yes, I have walked away from many as well after getting up close and personal. The key is to know what you are looking for, know what to look out for (online resources are a big help with that), and be patient.. If one doesn’t float your boat, another one will be along shortly for you to look at :) Remember, in a CL transaction, you are the one with the cash so you get to call the shots.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5513 posts in 2062 days


#17 posted 08-28-2012 08:06 PM

Any decisions yet Lothar?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Lothar's profile

Lothar

7 posts in 785 days


#18 posted 08-28-2012 08:40 PM

Not yet. I found the Ridgid at Direct Tools Outlet for $414 and with an additional $50 off sale this weekend. There would only be the 3 year Warrenty on it but it is also a new tool. Home Depot also tells me if I have an original Harbor Frieght Coupon that they will honor it. So that would be $400 with the LSA.

All of the used saws are at least an hour away. So before I go and look at them and haul a trailer with me to bring it back I want to have a pretty good idea of what I am doing. If I go for the used saw I am leaning towards the General followed by the Craftsman, but probably it will come down to what type of price I can negotiate on them. I will let everyone know when I make a decision.

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4123 posts in 1066 days


#19 posted 08-28-2012 10:52 PM

The Delta in that condition should be around $250, crappy old fashioned fence, stamped wings. That said, I’ve had one (but a step or two up) for over a dozen years and I’ve been very happy with it. I’d buy the General if you can negotiate the price down by $100.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View toolie's profile

toolie

1768 posts in 1315 days


#20 posted 08-29-2012 03:21 PM

$400 plus tax for the 4512 is a lot of saw for the money. a price difference of $100-150 would not sway me from the 4512. if you don’t like it, the saw can be returned within it’s first 90 days. can’t do that with an older saw on CL.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View ADHDan's profile

ADHDan

511 posts in 795 days


#21 posted 08-29-2012 03:33 PM

If the other saws do not come with mobile bases and you’ll need to move your saw around, you should add the cost of an aftermarket base to your calculus – which may make the R4512 a very attractive option at $400. For what it’s worth, I went with the R4512 at HD with the 20% off coupon and have been very happy, but I also don’t know as much about table saws as the other Jocks.

-- Dan in Minneapolis, woodworking since 11/11.

View James 's profile

James

138 posts in 1612 days


#22 posted 08-29-2012 06:55 PM

The R4512 has a lot going for it for $500 even more if you can get it for $400 with the HF coupon. Integrated mobile base, riving knife, LSA. I think you could deal with the table mounted trunnions and the stamped steel wings at that price, especially if you are thinking about mounting a router table in one of table saw extensions. The last question would be how long do you need the saw to last, 2-3 years, 5 years 10+? If you think you will end up replacing this saw in 5 years or less than I would go with the R4512 and you could probably resell it for at least $350 within the next 5 years and get most of your money back and put it toward your next saw.

View Lothar's profile

Lothar

7 posts in 785 days


#23 posted 08-29-2012 08:33 PM

5 years + would be my goal.

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 972 days


#24 posted 08-29-2012 08:38 PM

The R4512 gets my vote especially at $400, for all the reasons listed. The riving knife is a big deal… IMO.

-- John, BC, Canada

View dnick's profile

dnick

930 posts in 1069 days


#25 posted 08-30-2012 03:37 AM

I had the Craftsman 22114 for 7 years & thought it was a good saw until I upgraded to the 22116 & the difference is amazing. The 22114 is underpowered & the fence is lightweight & it takes up a LOT of space !

-- dnick, North Hollywood, Ca.

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2206 posts in 2233 days


#26 posted 08-30-2012 04:07 AM

My vote is CL. Just because there is no clear good deal on CL when you last checked does not mean there will not be a good TS on CL soon for a fair price. But if you have to get a TS now I would lean towards the ridgid. I have owned both the TS 3650 and the R4511. Both were decent saws. No major complaints. We work with our table saws full time so my requirements might differ some but the ridgid should prove to be a good buy.

I do think the other saws you listed would be considered high in my area. Just today I bought a 3 ho Grizzly in good condition for 300.00.

Certainly let us know what you decide.

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1263 days


#27 posted 08-30-2012 11:41 AM

Lothar, what I would seriously consider, is waiting. Save a bit more, use your current saw until you have enough for a good cabinet saw. Steel city makes one with a 1.75HP motor that works on 110 if that’s a need.

If I had done that, I would have used my $99 tradesman screamer for a while, then had enough for a cabinet saw. If I skipped the stepping up phase from saw to saw, I’d already have a nice cabinet saw.

I’m on saw #3 but still want a cabinet saw.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View Lothar's profile

Lothar

7 posts in 785 days


#28 posted 08-30-2012 12:06 PM

Unfortunately the motor on my saw died, so I am in a spot where I need something soon. Hopefully over the weekend I can get out and make a decision.

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1263 days


#29 posted 08-30-2012 02:55 PM

Unless you’re set on a new saw (and there’s nothing wrong with that), it might be cheaper to get a new motor. I know grizzly sells a bunch.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View Lothar's profile

Lothar

7 posts in 785 days


#30 posted 08-30-2012 03:22 PM

What I have is a cheap craftsman (315.218050) and the motor is $165…. So I guess I am pretty set on a new saw.

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2206 posts in 2233 days


#31 posted 09-01-2012 01:56 AM

I understand being in a tight spot with a broken down saw you need to depend on. I was once on a jobsite in the middle of a large job and found myself in a pinch. I ended up spending around 650.00 on a new table saw for the job site. Now we have 3 cabinet saws I have about a total of 900 invested in altogether.

Since finding myself in a pinch, I have done all I can to build us to the point where we have extra saws as back up saws or extra machines. Since most machines/tools can be had on CL with such fair prices I have been able to add redundancy in the shop for very reasonable cost.

Sure hope you find a good deal. Let us know how it goes. :)

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net

View Lothar's profile

Lothar

7 posts in 785 days


#32 posted 09-01-2012 02:20 PM

So the Answer is the Ridgid from HD at $499 with the 20% off coupon to Harbor Frieght (found in Popular science.) While I would like to go with the General the owner does not want to move on the price. Thanks for all the suggestions.

View James 's profile

James

138 posts in 1612 days


#33 posted 09-01-2012 05:06 PM

I think that is a good choice. Wood magazine just gave the Ridgid R4512 the top tool award in the $400-$600 range and has some good things to say about the saw.

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4123 posts in 1066 days


#34 posted 09-01-2012 08:08 PM

How does the Harbor Freight coupon work in? I thought the price match only worked on identical items.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View Lothar's profile

Lothar

7 posts in 785 days


#35 posted 09-01-2012 09:12 PM

HD will honor compettitors coupons also. Below is an email that I recieved from Home Depot Customer Care.

Thank you for contacting The Home Depot Customer Care.

The Home Depot offers 10 percent off coupons which are redeemable on a single purchase for up to $200. This offer is NOT valid on labor, installations, gift cards, and certificates, with any other discounts or on prior purchases. Unfortunately we do not send out 20% coupons to our customers.

Regarding your Harbor Freight coupon most stores will accept a coupon, as long as it has a bar code, including manufacturer?s coupons. The stores may, at their discretion, deny coupons without a bar code. This includes Home Depot 10% Discount coupons. In addition, any coupons that have been photo-copied, reprinted, or expired will be denied by the store.

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4123 posts in 1066 days


#36 posted 09-02-2012 02:51 AM

Good to know, thanks.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

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