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View MrRon's profile

Ten Reasons to own a Saw stop

by MrRon
posted 08-10-2012 10:37 PM


45 replies so far

View Roadster280's profile

Roadster280

31 posts in 2294 days


#1 posted 08-10-2012 11:31 PM

Having just bought one, and finding myself fitting none of the categories above, I’m going to have to produce my own list. It’s a short one.

I wanted a good quality saw, and since it’s available, an insurance policy for my fingers.

There’s no other saw that fitted the bill. If Delta would license the technology and install it in the Unisaw, I’d a) have bought one, and b) would still trade the SS for a Uni if they do so.

View da3t's profile

da3t

9 posts in 2291 days


#2 posted 08-14-2012 02:22 AM

The cost and perceived benefit of the safety feature should be incorporated in anyone’s purchasing decision. Mr Ron has dismissed it as too expensive for the benefit, so Sawstop is not for people who weight their decision that way. I place more weight on it. And, from the reviews and from what I’ve seen of it in person, it seems like a well-made saw. So if we assume it is above-average for its class, and therefore assume the brake alone adds $500-$1000 to the cost of the saw, this will set you back $50 – $100 per year if the saw lifespan is only 10 years, and it then self-destructs with no resale value. Seems affordable to me, compared most of the other insurance I pay, if you want to use the insurance analogy.

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2899 posts in 2423 days


#3 posted 08-14-2012 12:41 PM

I am not a fan of the sawstop. It is lazy innovation. Table saws are extremely dangerously designed. The saw stop used the same flawed and dangerous design and threw a touch responsive brake in the mix. This still does nothing to prevent or even address kickbacks. If you want to make something safer, look for other ways to cut wood rather than pushing it with your hands through a spinning blade that pinches an edge up against a locked down fence.

Sliding table saws are a good example of real innovation that actually addresses safety issues.

-- https://pinepointwoodworks.wordpress.com/

View Doss's profile

Doss

779 posts in 2439 days


#4 posted 08-14-2012 04:32 PM

Good ole Joe, the sliding saw advocate. :-) You have me convinced that’s what I should buy though… so it’s working. LOL

Roadster and da3t, I’m sure MrRon meant this for humor’s sake. In fact, Here is a little tongue-in-cheek humor that I hope you won’t find offensive (pretty much says it all).

I too wondered about the lure of the Saw Stop. I mean, sure, the safety feature is great and all, but how great of a saw is it? I even posted about this last week in my own thread. What I came away with is that it is a great saw that is comparable to other saws in its category with a premium tacked on for its safety feature… its namesake. Nothing wrong with that. I just don’t value its safety feature that much (I’d probably quickly change my mind if I nicked or cut a finger though LOL).

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2899 posts in 2423 days


#5 posted 08-14-2012 04:57 PM

There is no doubt it is a good traditional table saw, however as I mentioned a traditional table saw is a dangerous tool.
I wish manufacturers would get in on the REAL sliding saw market and give us some cheaper options with a standard 5/8” arbor,10” blades, optional scoring blade (I rarely use sheet goods so it is of little value) and more geared to the hardcore weekend warrior than the production shop.
In doing research I feel the safety advantages to a sliding table FAR surpass a gimmicky blade brake. The saw stop will only protect you if the danger is imminent and unavoidable. Sliders change the way you work and eliminate a lot of the operations that create that imminent situation. That is real innovation and an example of “built in” and not bolted on.

This relates to my formal work background in proper IT procedures using Six Sigma (LEAN), ITIL, and various ISO standards. Sawstop is focusing a lot of effort on fixing a symptom (laceration hazard). Someone needs to take a holistic look and fix the problem that table saws are dangerous. Just as an exercise, let’s go through the “5 whys”. I like to do this but it makes you sound like a 4 year old.

Problem: Table saws hurt people
Why?
Because people get cut (Sawstop technology stops here, thus not offering a REAL solution, just a flawed band-aid that addresses a symptom), or the piece can kick back.
Why?
Because you have to push the wood through the blade using your hands, and sometimes your hands are pretty close. Also the piece can get stuck between the blade and the fence and possibly thrown back
Why?
How else are you supposed to cut wood on a table saw? There is no other mechanism on a table saw to move the wood through the blade for a lot if cuts without using your hands directly, and there is no alternative to a fence to make a straight, long cut.
Why?
Good question! Let’s stop here and use this to engineer a better solution.

Only 4 why’s needed this time :)

-- https://pinepointwoodworks.wordpress.com/

View Brad_Nailor's profile

Brad_Nailor

2539 posts in 4132 days


#6 posted 08-14-2012 05:00 PM

If you appreciate having your fingers on your hand then you might be a good candidate for a Saw Stop
If you think that accidents happen to the best prepared, most experienced woodworkers….
If you realize that being brave, arrogant, cocky, or feel your immune to injury wont keep you from getting hurt….
If you do the research and find out how many accidents this technology has prevented..
If you realize that it is a well built, quality saw…

I agree with Joe..the Europeans have been way ahead of the curve when it comes to table saw safety..riving knives, sliding table saws..That would be great if a big company would market an affordable sliding saw for the home market.

-- http://www.facebook.com/pages/DSO-Designs/297237806954248

View Doss's profile

Doss

779 posts in 2439 days


#7 posted 08-14-2012 06:21 PM

I still think you can accomplish most of what a sliding tablesaw does with a proper sled and in/outfeed table though.

I also don’t think the Saw Stop tech is flawed or a band-aid. It is designed to serve a purpose. It is not 100% reliable true, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily flawed. It’s not a band-aid because it is designed for a single purpose, stopping the blade when it detects contact with [what it thinks is] flesh.

Where your reasoning does apply is that it is not a complete system to address all tablesaw safety issues.

Just some thoughts on that subject.

Also, Grizzly makes the Grizzly G0623X which is a very affordable slider.

Another thought, why not add something like the Excalibur sliding table attachment to the Saw Stop? Best of both worlds?

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 2737 days


#8 posted 08-14-2012 09:11 PM

Of course, MrRon JUST intended this to be tongue-in-cheek and nothing else. So in the spirit of tongue-in-cheekiness, here are my top-ten reasons for not owning a SawStop. I sincerely hope you won’t find this offensive…

10. You fear the govment is going to confiscate your tablesaw from your cold dead fingers – all six of them.
9. You believe all lawyers are vermin except for those you retain for yourself and your retarded stepson – relax, it’s a joke.
8. You live by the phrase “You can’t fix stupid” and have no clue why people become silent and sheepishly look with disbelief every time that statement comes out of your mouth.
7. You’re too lazy to read the CSPC Report.
6. You can’t read.
5. You trust power tool manufacturers to give you unbiased, accurate information because only THEY have your best consumer and safety interests at heart – PTI forever!
4. You live by yourself on Pluto because you’ve vowed to never to let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do.
3. You wished you lived all by yourself on Pluto so no one could tell you what you can or cannot do.
2. Steve Gass is the Antichrist or closely related on his mother’s side.
1. You wish the govment would stop meddling in your personal affairs except when traveling, eating, breathing, drinking, getting paid, getting sick, getting well, buying anything, paying your bills-debts-tuition, in emergencies, watching TV, listening to your favorite talk-radio idiot, when roads need fixing, when fires need extinguishing, when criminals-terrorists-illegal immigrants and all other undesirables need to be locked up, when your son daughter nephew niece brother sister mother father decides to join the military because corporate America is exporting employment opportunities to India, China and other developing countries at the speed of light.

Feel free to chime in with your thoughts or simply continue gnashing your teeth with torches in hand.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5139 posts in 3418 days


#9 posted 08-14-2012 10:37 PM

Pierce 85,
I’m not even going to touch number 1.

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

7273 posts in 3542 days


#10 posted 08-15-2012 02:22 AM

Does anyone on this site own one of the Hammer sliding table saws?

Hammer Woodworking USA

I really like those saws and just want to get their opinion on safety with a sliding table.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Lumberzach12's profile

Lumberzach12

17 posts in 2323 days


#11 posted 08-15-2012 02:33 AM

Ah the saw stop. Saved my finger when I was in shop class. They make on hell of a thud when they drop.

-- Carpenters never die. They just get board!

View Dan Katz's profile

Dan Katz

52 posts in 2813 days


#12 posted 04-22-2013 11:43 PM

Hi Guys,
A little late chimming in. Just turned 64 and as a birthday gift to myself I pulled the plug on my
old Delta Contractors saw. Until I can afford a SawStop I’ll be using my 20” Rockwell bandsaw, planer
and jointer for wood processing. In the mean time I’m reviewing all the options for a sliding table to put on the Sawstop. One point that isn’t brought up much is that ripping on a Format style slider is not that comfortable. The logical trade off would be the Exaktor or Grizzly type add-on which allows the user to have access to the saw as in normal use. I’m aware of the pleasures of straightline ripping with the format type,
but from what I’ve heard most pro shops have both kinds of saws in their plants.
Dan

-- VillageCarver,Chattanooga

View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

1060 posts in 2761 days


#13 posted 04-23-2013 12:04 AM

My worst injury in 30yrs. was on a saw stop at work. Kickback happens on any tablesaw. The board split my thumbnail in half. I have not an injury on any other tablesaw brand delta, Powermatic, jet or craftsman. I guess it is just my bad luck. The picture is after a month.

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

7273 posts in 3542 days


#14 posted 04-23-2013 05:38 AM

lumberjoe here is the saw I want as it has a sliding table, riving knife, and extremely good dust collection

And, if I had the money/room and my old saw was not 99% capable it would be in my garage tomorrow.

Hammer Tools to check out their cheesy video!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Knothead62's profile

Knothead62

2598 posts in 3135 days


#15 posted 04-23-2013 10:43 AM

Which is more dangerous- a table saw or a motor vehicle?
Got a chuckle out of the list. Thanks.

View lumberjoe's profile

lumberjoe

2899 posts in 2423 days


#16 posted 04-23-2013 11:16 AM

oldnovice, I love that saw. I would also consider it and the price is decent. The only thing I have a problem with is the metric arbor and the necessity for a euro style dado blade – which is really annoying to adjust

-- https://pinepointwoodworks.wordpress.com/

View pneufab's profile

pneufab

119 posts in 3255 days


#17 posted 04-23-2013 11:30 AM

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2298 posts in 2544 days


#18 posted 04-23-2013 12:32 PM

Hello Everybody.

I am New Here From Brass Insert india company. We provide Custom word wide Brass Insert india as per client requirement. All your comment about that are welcome.

Thanks.

shivshaktibrass,
Welcome to the forum.
Your English sucks.
Nobody cares about your brass inserts.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

7273 posts in 3542 days


#19 posted 04-23-2013 03:46 PM

shivshaktibrass this is not a place to sell your products!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5139 posts in 3418 days


#20 posted 04-23-2013 06:08 PM

His English may “suck”, but I see born and raised Americans with worse English skills everyday.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5139 posts in 3418 days


#21 posted 04-23-2013 06:13 PM

I think we have finally gotten over the SawStop bias and are beginning to see it for it’s merits and short comings. No one is 100% right or 100% wrong; it comes down to being a matter of preference. (Ford or Chevy).

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5139 posts in 3418 days


#22 posted 04-23-2013 06:16 PM

SawStop may have saved this guys thumbs, but look what it did to his head and the lower half of his body.

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1207 posts in 2210 days


#23 posted 04-23-2013 06:25 PM

We have an SCMI slider at work, and for crosscut operations, it’s great.

But I have to say, I’m not a fan of the sliding table saw for ripping operations. They scare the crap out of me because the sliding table will move and distract you from what is really important- keeping the rip against the fence.

I’d much rather have the “crutch” of the SawStop mechanisim for ripping operations.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View Straightbowed's profile

Straightbowed

717 posts in 2472 days


#24 posted 04-23-2013 06:25 PM

I wish I would have bought a sliding tablesaw my self it would be great to use it is a safe alternative to sawstop the sawstop is overated, use a sled I have started using a sled alot and it feels safe but I never get COMFY WHEN i USE my tablesaw always on edge and waiting for something I guess that’s a good thing hey

-- Stevo, work in tha city woodshop in the country

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1207 posts in 2210 days


#25 posted 04-23-2013 06:26 PM

I’m also wondering how Woodmaster1 got a kickback on a SawStop when it has such a good riving knife setup? I’d wager it’s as good or better than most.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

1240 posts in 2169 days


#26 posted 04-23-2013 08:00 PM

Can I add one to the original list:

- You are a charter member of PETHD (people for the ethical treatment of hot dogs)

(I love their demo video).

-Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1207 posts in 2210 days


#27 posted 04-23-2013 08:01 PM

^HILARIOUS!^

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

117276 posts in 3751 days


#28 posted 04-23-2013 08:44 PM

I think the difference between table saw kick back accidents and ripping hand injuries differ in that with most saws you can protect against kick backs with the addition of hold downs,feather boards and guards verses hand injuries where only Saw Stops technology has the best protection out there. Slider table saws can help with protection for crosscutting but if most folks are like me they use their table saws 80% of the time for ripping wood. Another problem I see with a slider table saw is the price for most of them are at least twice what the top of the line SS sells for and they take up 2-3 times the amount of floor space of a cabinet saw.
Here are some interesting facts about table saw accidents.
http://sawaccidents.com/
http://www.newwoodworker.com/safesurvy.html

-- https://www.artisticwoodstudio.com/videos wood crafting & woodworking classes

View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

1060 posts in 2761 days


#29 posted 04-24-2013 12:16 AM

Underdog kickback happened resawing a board for friend. I should have waited to use the bandsaw at home. By the way I like the riving knife on my Unisaw it is better than Sawstop’s.

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1207 posts in 2210 days


#30 posted 04-24-2013 01:15 PM

I still don’t see how you got kickback- even resawing- the riving knife clears the top of the blade on our saw. Why do you think the UniSaw’s riving knife is better?

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5139 posts in 3418 days


#31 posted 04-24-2013 05:52 PM

I thought I knew pretty much everything about saws, but the concern about ripping on a saw that has a sliding table throws me. A ripping operation on a table saw involves pushing wood through the blade while applying side pressure to hold the wood tightly against the fence. Feather boards help. I just don’t understand why a sliding table is involved in a ripping operation. Sliding tables are used only for crosscutting, Right?

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1207 posts in 2210 days


#32 posted 04-24-2013 06:35 PM

I don’t use it for rips if I can help it.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

7273 posts in 3542 days


#33 posted 04-24-2013 07:49 PM

If you watch the video at Hammer Tools you can see how they use the table for ripping rough lumber which is not easy on a standard TS.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Earlextech's profile

Earlextech

1162 posts in 2865 days


#34 posted 04-24-2013 08:36 PM

If you’ve ever seen anyone cut their fingers off on a regular saw, you may be a candidate for a Saw Stop!

-- Sam Hamory - The project is never finished until its "Finished"!

View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

1060 posts in 2761 days


#35 posted 04-24-2013 09:48 PM

I like Unisaw’s riving knife because I can adjust the knife with a handle in the front. I was not using the riving knife on the sawstop at the time (stupid attack). I still should have used the bandsaw to resaw. I will never use a tablesaw to resaw again.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

3597 posts in 2163 days


#36 posted 04-24-2013 10:30 PM

If you are human and may make a mistake, you are a candidate for a SawStop.

If you are perfect and will never have an accident, then you don’t need one.

View Kobra's profile

Kobra

21 posts in 2075 days


#37 posted 04-25-2013 01:48 AM

If you are perfect and will never have an accident, then you don’t need one.

If you think things through before the cut and have a healthy respect for the table saw, then you don’t need a SawStop.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

3597 posts in 2163 days


#38 posted 04-25-2013 02:10 AM

I sincerely hope that nothing every happens to you on the table saw.

Simply thinking things thru and having respect for a table saw is not enough. It only takes one micro-second to have an accident. One needs to only look at the number and severity of table saw accidents.

I heard similar things concerning seat belts in cars. That if you were a good driver and had respect for the car that you did not need a seat belt.

The great thing is that everyone gets to make their own choices about the table saw.

I have a lot of respect for the table saw, think things thru and been using it for better than 40 years without an accident and I have a SawStop.

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1207 posts in 2210 days


#39 posted 04-25-2013 01:04 PM

Yeah… I don’t understand that “logic” either. Certainly, developing good habits around, and a healthy respect for, machinery, willl reduce the number of accidents greatly, but it WILL NOT eliminate them entirely. They ARE accidents after all. Even the most careful of people make mistakes. We are not perfect. We will make a mistake during our lifetime- just hope it’s not the one where we are running our saws.

Y’know it’s like people think that if they plan to never have an accident, they won’t have one? Huh? Really? None of us ever plan to have an accident…

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View Kaleb the Swede's profile

Kaleb the Swede

1870 posts in 2144 days


#40 posted 04-25-2013 01:44 PM

Alright let’s end the debate right here. Somebody send me a SawStop (any model) and and Hammer K3, and after about 10 to 15 years of use, I will let you guys know which is better. Just let me know and I’ll give you my address. While your at it, send me the Festool 2200 router, and I will do a full write up on that too after only 5 years.

-- Just trying to build something beautiful

View BinghamtonEd's profile

BinghamtonEd

2298 posts in 2544 days


#41 posted 04-25-2013 01:48 PM

Ha, you’d just give everything two stumps up.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5139 posts in 3418 days


#42 posted 04-25-2013 04:51 PM

I didn’t intend for this thread to become another good/bad opinion of the SawStop. I think we all agree that it is a good saw. The only negative that I can see was the promotion of the saw by it’s inventor. When it comes down to safety, there are many other tools that are as dangerous or more so than a table saw. The jointer is one of those.

View stefang's profile

stefang

16064 posts in 3509 days


#43 posted 04-25-2013 10:17 PM

It is good that folks are safety conscious and some are willing to pay extra for features like the Saw Stop saw has. . For myself I think my best safety device is my brain and that my safe work habits extend to all the tools in my shop. We build pretty safe cars these days with tons of great safety features driven by some folks who text on their mobil phones while driving over the speed limits without safety belts buckled up.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1207 posts in 2210 days


#44 posted 04-26-2013 02:04 PM

You mean like bypassing the safety features of a saw, then blaming it on the saw, or saw manufacturer?

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View unbob's profile

unbob

810 posts in 2078 days


#45 posted 04-26-2013 03:09 PM

The SS seems to be the ticket for the vast majority that will not use the blade gaurd.
Those that have TVs, and other distractions in the shop.
I think they are a great deal for most folks.

Myself, the SS saws are just too small, limited to only two blade sizes 10” and 8”dado.
They seem to be nicely built however.

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