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View CplSteel's profile

how many 220s do you need/wish you had?

by CplSteel
posted 08-08-2012 09:50 AM


29 replies so far

View bent's profile

bent

311 posts in 2354 days


#1 posted 08-08-2012 10:04 AM

when i rewired my shop, i ran 3/10 romex to all the outlets. that way you can convert any of them to 220 or 30A as needed.

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1063 days


#2 posted 08-08-2012 10:06 AM

I only have one along with an extension cord for 220. Currently, I only have three tools on 220 (compressor, sander, table saw).

The question is how many tools are you going to run at the same time at 220?.
I can think of two (table saw & duist collector).
Having a dedicated service would be nice.

Yes, the extra 220 will give you options. Still, make sure your extension cord is long enough to reach it. Actually the cord will give you the most flexiblity. It’s just a pain to connect/dis-connect….....

You also need extra 110s circuits too. When a common circuit is shared (Ex: table saw & dust collector), you may run into problem of drawing overcurrent and trip the circuit breaker at the panel. Having additional circuit will allow you run couple tools at the same time.

So yes, if you have extra 220s that would be great and you can reduce the number of 110s. But having extra 110s are great too. We all get caught up on the new tools until we actully use it on a project and relize our infrastructure doesn’t match our usage.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View b2rtch's profile

b2rtch

4341 posts in 1734 days


#3 posted 08-08-2012 10:13 AM

I have one or two on each wall.
How many machine running 220 might you buy?
Table saw, jointer, planer, welder, dust collector, band saw,air conditioner,electric heater, what else?
So, if you have four or five o them in your shop you should be OK.
I have a 100 Amps panel and 5×220 outlets and I am good so far.

-- Bert

View kizerpea's profile

kizerpea

746 posts in 1053 days


#4 posted 08-08-2012 01:10 PM

I have 18..220 outlets around my shop…if i need to move a machine i have the outlet….i hate drop cord in the shop..

-- IF YOUR NOT MAKING DUST...YOU ARE COLLECTING IT! SOUTH CAROLINA.

View dbhost's profile

dbhost

5386 posts in 1917 days


#5 posted 08-08-2012 01:16 PM

I am in the process of running a sub panel for my shop. Nothing huge, just enough to feed my needs. Lighting staying on house circuit, 3 110 circuits, 3 220. The 220s won’t get used for quite some time. Most likely the first one will be my 1.5 HP motor for my wide drum sander build. Might as well start out with it that way. Next upgrade would likely be a new dust collector / cyclone. But my HF DC works well enough for now. The third really doesn’t need to be there. It runs HVAC which is 110V and no need to replace yet, or even close to yet. Would be good to have the power there if I need…

The main circuit, the one dedicated to power tools, will have 3 outlets. So I am going to be running a total of 5 220 outlets…

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

5766 posts in 2114 days


#6 posted 08-08-2012 01:54 PM

One for an air compressor.
I wish I had more. I wish even more that there were 3 phase available to the shop.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View blackcherry's profile

blackcherry

3169 posts in 2508 days


#7 posted 08-08-2012 02:01 PM

As stated above how many can you run at the same time, in my shop I have two outlets gear up but only one 30A breaker. This way I don’t have to keep unplugging the two machines. Good luck on what you decide to do…Blkcherry

View Ken90712's profile

Ken90712

15078 posts in 1874 days


#8 posted 08-08-2012 02:01 PM

Which I had more!!!!! Only have 4 ughhh

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

4135 posts in 1014 days


#9 posted 08-08-2012 02:28 PM

for my 400 sf. basement shop…. I need two for now and three in the future

1 for TS
1 for DC

and if my 115 v oiless air compressor ever give up the ghost (the thing is 20 years old and still kickin’) I’m replacing it with a 60 gal. two stage twin cyl. upright with a 5 HP 220 v motor.

I can’t see any other requirements in my future.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View JCantin's profile

JCantin

135 posts in 2097 days


#10 posted 08-08-2012 03:23 PM

Not very fluent in things electrical but assuming there’s room on an existing panel what’s the rough cost to have an electrician add a 220 outlet? And if a subpanel is needed…?

View Loren's profile (online now)

Loren

7718 posts in 2333 days


#11 posted 08-08-2012 03:34 PM

Well, think about what you’d want to leave hooked up to
220.

Examples are: table saw, dust collector, air compressor.

Most other machines are going to be intermittently used
and plugging them in is no big deal. If you shop is big and
you have room for permanent infeed/outfeed areas for
each machine, that’s nice. As a practical matter I
have all my stuff on wheels and positioning machines
and plugging them in is part of the process.

I have only 2 220 volt outlets and I get by with them
fine, but my DC and air compressor are 110.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View dbhost's profile

dbhost

5386 posts in 1917 days


#12 posted 08-08-2012 04:17 PM

Sorry, I was in a hurry on my last response. Let me be a little clearer on what I am trying to say…

In my in progress electrical project, I am adding 6 circuits, 3 of them 110V, 3 of them 220V. All of the 110, and 2 of the 220 are 20 amp, 1 220 is 30 amp.

Right now, every last bit of my equipment is 110V only. And most of it is not dual voltage capable.

My 29 gallon air compressor is less than 2 months old, and I am tickled silly with it. No chance that is going to be changed out for 220 any time soon.

My air conditioner, 13.5K BTU portable unit is 110V only, and works flawlessly. Because I want to be able to press portable units into service INSIDE the house if the AC ever goes out again, I want to stay 110V with this. Very little chance I will go away from that. Ever. Same goes with heat. My little oil filled radiator takes a while to heat up the shop, but once it is warm, the shop stays toasty on the lowest setting, no need for 220V here…

Dust collector. It works, but I have a big desire for a 3HP cyclone. That will require 220V for sure.

Band Saw, lathe, miter saw? All Harbor Freight 110V, not convertible, and working flawlessly…

Table saw? I am saving my $$ up for a 3 HP SawStop PCS. The cyclone and SawStop are why I want 220V. I actually very much love my Ryobi BT3100-1, it is a way better saw than folks give credit for, but it lacks a blade brake. While I hate the SawStop inventors legal / legislative tactics, I do like the product… Like I mentioned, if Grizzly offered the G0961 type saw with a similar, or better technology safety devices, I would be all over that.
I am hopeful by the time I can afford one, they will offer just such a saw.

Jointer, Planer, sanders? All bench top, all 110V and very likely to stay that way. I am happy with the way they work, and I do not want to dedicate floor space for dedicated floor models!

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 874 days


#13 posted 08-08-2012 05:23 PM

The flipant answer is “you can never have enough”. More seriously, it depends on how many machines you have that are heavy drawers of electricity. Many motors can run on 110 or 220 and, especially if they are close to being maxed out on 110, it is better to run them on 220 with 1/2 the AMPS because they will run cooler and your wiring won’t get cooked.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View CplSteel's profile

CplSteel

142 posts in 850 days


#14 posted 08-08-2012 05:55 PM

Maybe I should have worded the question differently, but ideally I would have a 220 on each wall and a drop down for a center position TS. That leaves me options. Even if I only have 2 or 3 tools that can use them (TS, dust collector and ?)

However, my understanding of local building codes (which may very well be wrong) is that a 220 line can only run to one outlet. If I could run them to more than one outlet then I would run a 220 20amp to a drop down TS, a 220 20amp to dust collection and a 220 30 amp around the room with 4 or 5 outlets. That would give me lots of options on the third 220 tool, and I could have more than one if I do not use them at the same time (I won’t be jointing and a planer at the same time, probably….) But that is not allowed.

So, and I know little about electricity so I may be wrong, but if I run 2 20amp and one 30 amp that leaves me with 2 15amp out of a 100 amp sub panel, which does not seem like enough for everything else.

I like Bent’s idea as a stop gap to leave it flexible.

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1063 days


#15 posted 08-08-2012 06:19 PM

Oh yes.
With the recent triple digit temperature, a dedicated 220 for the AC & Heating is a must for the garge workshop!

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1063 days


#16 posted 08-08-2012 06:31 PM

Steel,

You can’t get confused with loading verse circuit CB spaces. You can be out of spaces on your circuit panel and your loading is still well under the capacity. The code does permit you to determine to perform load calculation based on demand (diversity). If you have two loads and only one may operate at a time, then you still have one load. Airconditioning and heater is a classic example for a house. Of course you are running seperate circuits but the loading is the worse case of the two.

The opposite may also be true where you run out of load before the panel is ever max out. This situation perhaps is a bit unusual for residential but it is possible. Say you got a special high KW electric oven.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View SteviePete's profile

SteviePete

224 posts in 1989 days


#17 posted 08-08-2012 06:45 PM

I chose to follow a master elect friend. Have one circuit for each machine breaker is no more than 135% of rated amperage. Should not use two machines on one circuit unless it is protected with its own CB. (Most loads are two or three HP) Each machine has a long 12/3 cord with twist lock ends and indoor recepticles also twist lock. I was advised not to operate 220v machines outdoors. All 110v machines should be on GFCI to protect the user indoors and out. He also had me remove water lines from the shop – bathroom only has water. Service is 200 amp and I still have a few slots open. I am out in the sticks so I have 220v single phase. Good luck.

-- Steve, 'Sconie Great White North

View CplSteel's profile

CplSteel

142 posts in 850 days


#18 posted 08-09-2012 12:48 AM

hhhopks – my concern was not the number of available spaces on a circuit panel but the total available load on a 100 amp sub panel if I have 5 dedicated 20 amp 220 lines then, even if the sub panel has space for the circuits, I won’t have any load left for 110s,

or maybe I am confused (likely) and you can put more circuits in the panel (5×20 amps and 5×15 amps = 175 amps) then could run if they were all used at the same time, but that doesn’t seem right to me.

I will have an electrician do the work for safety sake, but I want to know what I can ask for so I can plan the placement of the outlets.

View MJCD's profile

MJCD

452 posts in 1057 days


#19 posted 08-09-2012 03:10 AM

CplSteel:

The math works differently from what you post.

There is a presumption within the Electrical Code that not all outlets will draw simultaneously; there is a Load Factor, which can be (and I’m not sure of what your applicable Code would say) 50% or 60% – that this is the percentage of concurrent draw on the circuit. If you have a 30 amp circuit, you could, theoretically, have (30/50%) = 60 amps worth of outlets (or machines plugged into the total run); though not all running at the same time. With this, you should never actually turn on all of the equipment concurrently; just that you could link a single run together to service multiple machines. If you have a 60 amp panel, which would be the minimum I’d recommend) for a garage/shop, you could run dedicated Table Saw & Dust Collection (a concurrent 15 amps each); AC/Heating (assume 20 amps total, as you would not be using both Heat & AC concurrently); Lights & Drill Press (a minimal draw of 5 amps, nominal); and 120V lines for Planer, Router Table, Sander, ... each at 15 amps.
With this, the total wired load is higher than 60, but probably In-Code and well-served by a 60 amp service.

-- Lead By Example; Make a Difference

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1311 posts in 1494 days


#20 posted 08-09-2012 03:20 AM

Have nine dedicated 220vac and one is free most of the time.

View Joseph Jossem's profile

Joseph Jossem

386 posts in 954 days


#21 posted 08-09-2012 03:52 AM

100 amp 10 circuts at least to be really spoiled.For a one man shop all tools wont be run at once so no need for a bigger breaker.15-30amp breakers at least for most tools.

View CplSteel's profile

CplSteel

142 posts in 850 days


#22 posted 08-09-2012 08:09 AM

MJCD you perfectly answered one of the questions I meant to ask, thank you.

For everyone else, I very much enjoy seeing all the variation in your shops. Something as simple as outlets has such a wide variety.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1882 posts in 1179 days


#23 posted 08-09-2012 11:02 AM

I wired mine with a separate 240V/20 amp on each wall (4 circuits) and outlets every 4’ (24×32 shop). There is another dedicated 30 amp for the DC, and a 30 amp in the ceiling for the table and planer (locking receptacles). Total of 17, and I don’t think I have too many.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

564 posts in 1063 days


#24 posted 08-10-2012 07:13 PM

Steel, you will be in good hands with MJCD.

Steve’s statement about 220 outdoor is interesting.
Ex: For those who has a mobile base table saw who occassionally use it outdoor (driveway) may be at risk (rain/sprinkler). I think the issue is that you don’t have that Ground Fault Protection. Does the HW stores stock 2-pole GFCI breakers? I think they are available. I have seen contractor uses 220 outdoors but not sure what they use (protection wise).

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

View Grandpa's profile (online now)

Grandpa

3182 posts in 1361 days


#25 posted 08-11-2012 04:45 AM

I have a circuit for my dust collector, one for a planer, one for a tablesaw, one for a welder and one for an air compressor. Those are all 220V. I have 5 if I counted those correctly. I have 5 others that are for 110V. I have a couple of spare slots also. Plan big because in 5 years you will probably be there. I have those filled those tools mentioned.

View a1Jim's profile (online now)

a1Jim

112295 posts in 2263 days


#26 posted 08-11-2012 05:16 AM

I have one every 6 foot on each wall a total of 14. I did this so I could relocate my equipment if I want to.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View ducky911's profile

ducky911

228 posts in 1475 days


#27 posted 08-11-2012 07:55 PM

more is better

if i had to do it again i would have 110 on 4 foot centers and 220 on 10 centers all around the shop.

so three sides of garage 60 ft. thats 15 110s and 6 220s

i currently am getting by with 9 110s. and 2 220s…doing well but more would be nicer. and if i had some coming up in the floor that would be cool

View Don W's profile

Don W

15217 posts in 1253 days


#28 posted 08-11-2012 09:22 PM

look at it this why. No matter how many you put in, you’ll need at least one more. I’d put at least 2 or three on every 20 ft section of wall were you might have machinery.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Arlin Eastman's profile

Arlin Eastman

2116 posts in 1247 days


#29 posted 08-11-2012 11:09 PM

I have 3 lines with two plug ins in each for a total of 90 amps

Arlin

-- It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

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