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View KnickKnack's profile

Who, if anyone, is actually running this site?

by KnickKnack
posted 08-07-2012 03:30 PM


48 replies so far

View ShaneA's profile (online now)

ShaneA

5304 posts in 1255 days


#1 posted 08-07-2012 03:38 PM

I have no idea, sometimes it is like the wild west. But I still like it.

View GMman's profile

GMman

3902 posts in 2354 days


#2 posted 08-07-2012 03:38 PM

I agree with you 100%.
Debbie is doing what she can but she can only do so much.
Maybe Nathan could tell us if Martin is off the site or is on vacation?

View DKV's profile

DKV

3137 posts in 1160 days


#3 posted 08-07-2012 07:00 PM

Shane, the wild west is fantastic. Great times to be had.

-- My bad, 2015 is the correct year...

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Joe Lyddon

7726 posts in 2709 days


#4 posted 08-07-2012 07:12 PM

I PM’d Nathan…
... hope it does some good…

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

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Jeff in Huntersville

399 posts in 1851 days


#5 posted 08-07-2012 07:12 PM

I guess you could say we, the users, are running the site.

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Tennessee

1447 posts in 1171 days


#6 posted 08-07-2012 07:19 PM

I think DKV has taken over, and is slowly making it his own….

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

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nwbusa

1017 posts in 942 days


#7 posted 08-07-2012 07:24 PM

I’ve seen a few OT posts that had some personal attacks disappear. I’m assuming they were flagged by users and removed by mods.

-- John, BC, Canada

View MsDebbieP's profile

MsDebbieP

18615 posts in 2817 days


#8 posted 08-07-2012 09:35 PM

Hi everyone … I’m sure I commented recently that we are currently working on a solution to the inappropriate posting issues. Finding another solution has been our high priority. We have looked at past experiences, past strategies, current issues, site feedback, private messages, and, as always, the best interest of the site as a whole and of all the members.

We appreciate your patience as well as your feedback.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (https://www.facebook.com/DebbiePribeleENJOConsultant)

View Greg..the Cajun  Box Sculptor's profile

Greg..the Cajun Box Sculptor

5107 posts in 1965 days


#9 posted 08-07-2012 10:30 PM

This website, like so many others is driven by the numbers that generate advertisers. When member numbers… and not quality of the site content is the driving factor any website will eventually spiral downward and deterioriate.

Just take a look at how many people post here on the blogs and forums and never… ever post a project. They are not interested in using Lumberjocks to further their woodworking interests.
Take a look at alot of Lumberjocks with a lot of blog/forum entries and then click on their projects…I know that there are a few exceptions but….......

-- If retiring is having the time to be able to do what you enjoy then I have always been retired.

View KnickKnack's profile

KnickKnack

988 posts in 2223 days


#10 posted 08-07-2012 10:43 PM

…I commented recently that we are currently working on a solution to the inappropriate posting issues

With respect MsDebbie, my post is not about the “inappropriate posting issues”, it’s about the complete lack of management posting about anything – please see list above, none of which are about “inappropriate posting issues”.
Nor does it address the fake project – mwbusa says “I’ve seen a few OT posts that had some personal attacks disappear” – good, but to leave a fake project in the competition – surely that’s got to be beyond any line one might care to draw?

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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juniorjock

1930 posts in 2422 days


#11 posted 08-07-2012 11:35 PM

What KnickKnack said…............ looks like the big giant heads could handle more than one issue at a time….... or maybe not.

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112104 posts in 2233 days


#12 posted 08-07-2012 11:57 PM

I guess what some of us like others hate ,Martin has his prospective on the issues you brought up and may not feel that their not that big of an issue. I know on some of the other woodworking sites this post would have been deleted as soon as it was posted. So either we have a police state with crazy insane moderators or rioting in the street so to speak as far as posting goes. I know that LJs is one of a kind as far as it’s format and ease of use. I think it’s got to be next to impossible to moderate all of the post that are put on Ljs at any given time ,so perhaps we can help buy flagging the post we feel are most objectionable or sending Martin a PM explaining our point of view.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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Jimbo4

1133 posts in 1419 days


#13 posted 08-08-2012 12:44 AM

I think Debbie is swamped with :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: stuff !

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

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Kookaburra

748 posts in 880 days


#14 posted 08-08-2012 12:58 AM

The good news is that the plagiarized entry is gone. The bad news is that some people wasted their votes on it. I feel better knowing it has NO CHANCE of winning anything.

-- Kay - Just a girl who loves wood.

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

3998 posts in 985 days


#15 posted 08-08-2012 12:58 AM

I suspect Martin has a day job…

and while the cat is away, the mice will play….

I find my life is happier, the less I visit the OT forum….

but I’m bummed that the actual wood working traffic volume seems to decreasing.

I guess I need to get down to the shop and get busy :^)

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View derosa's profile

derosa

1556 posts in 1492 days


#16 posted 08-08-2012 12:59 AM

This is not to mention the huge number of “enlargement” products (both male and female) being advertised by the latest crop of non-woodworkers who’ve joined.
This is not to mention the massive number of “zimbio” non-woodworkers who’ve joined.

I must be blind as I never see these two groupings, just posts griping about them. Things do tend to happen just not without a huge amount of fanfair.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1219 days


#17 posted 08-08-2012 01:11 AM

With a site this large and essentially one effective moderator, MsDebbieP, it’s clear what Martin’s intentions are – low overhead, high advertising revenue. This unfortunately is NOT all that unusual and typical of the absentee site owner. Here are some of the familiar symptoms and eventual outcomes:

1. The site owner has very little to no interaction with the active forum community that he or she started.
2. Only one or maybe two moderators exist to police thousands of members – they can’t keep up.
3. Most or all administrative control is retained by the site owner, very little is delegated to the individual(s) in charge of moderating.
3. The site owner is absent from maintaining general site operations for extended periods of time.
4. Only at crisis moments does the site owner make an appearance to assuage the rebellious mob – aka members.
5. A heartfelt apology is then given, one recounting busy schedules and/or other circumstances that have gotten in the way of site responsibilities.
6. Assurance is given to everyone that current issues are being attended to.
7. And then the site owner disappears again for another extended period.
8. This cycle repeats.
9. Longtime members who have a deep respect and loyalty to the site owner quickly forgive all of the above because of their connections to a bygone past.
10. Members, new and old, finally get fed up with the obvious – the owner has no relevant interest in the site in-and-of-itself other than its revenue generating potential – and a large number of these members eventually create a site/forum of their own.

I’ve personally watched this happen to two different sites. By the way, when is the last time Martin interacted with the LJ community in a non-administrative fashion?

View Dark_Lightning's profile

Dark_Lightning

1715 posts in 1765 days


#18 posted 08-08-2012 02:02 AM

Greg the Box Sculptor- I haven’t posted many projects because my camera/photo skills are in the basement. Just go look at my two fuzzy project photos for example. I have a better camera now, and maybe I’ll get around to putting a few more projects on the site. But please don’t hold that against people! My project skills are pretty good, but some people may be afraid to post, in case they get unwelcome criticism, for example.

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 845 days


#19 posted 08-08-2012 03:49 AM

For me, the crap that gets posted is the forum owner’s problem/responsibility. I haven’t seen any of it because I automatically skip over the Off-Topic stuff. This is a woodworking site so I know that stuff should be ignored, For me, this is prety much a non-issue as a result. I have not seen any real problems in the actual woopdworking posts. If Martin or whoever owns this forum gets sued because he’s allowing hate speech or whatever, I guess he’s a slow learner.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

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RetiredCoastie

999 posts in 1839 days


#20 posted 08-08-2012 04:18 AM

Never mind!

-- www.thepatriotwoodworker.com Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops

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TopamaxSurvivor

14752 posts in 2332 days


#21 posted 08-08-2012 04:45 AM

Even with all the complaints and disgruntled members, this is still as good as it gets on the WWW!

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View rance's profile

rance

4132 posts in 1817 days


#22 posted 08-08-2012 05:05 AM

stolen woodworking entry’?

I hope I didn’t vote for that one. Which one was it?

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View KnickKnack's profile

KnickKnack

988 posts in 2223 days


#23 posted 08-08-2012 06:57 AM

a1Jim: Martin has his prospective on the issues you brought up and may not feel that their not that big of an issue
Perhaps so.
But if entering stolen work in the awards isn’t regarded as “that big” of an issue, well, I don’t know what to say.

a1Jim: I think it’s got to be next to impossible to moderate all of the post that are put on Ljs at any given time ,so perhaps we can help buy flagging the post we feel are most objectionable or sending Martin a PM explaining our point of view.
Also true.
But my post here wasn’t about moderating the thousands of posts a day, it was about there being no response to topics in the “Site Feedback” forum. MsDebbie says “We appreciate your patience as well as your feedback.” – I don’t think appreciation is adequately expressed by simply saying nothing.

ssvnet; I suspect Martin has a day job…I find my life is happier, the less I visit the OT forum
MonteCristo: For me, the crap that gets posted is the forum owner’s problem/responsibility. I haven’t seen any of it because I automatically skip over the Off-Topic stuff.
I say again, this post wasn’t about the whole OT issues.

rance: I hope I didn’t vote for that one. Which one was it?
“girlpower” had posted 3 projects, all just copies of pictures from the internet, “her” entry was this one…

which you’ll find here, on the woodcraft web site. Now, after voting has finished, these projects have been removed

TopamaxSurvivor: Even with all the complaints and disgruntled members, this is still as good as it gets on the WWW!
I recently posted a question asking about other woodworking sites. I looked at them all. As you say, this site is still the best. But if pierce85’s analysis is correct, for how long? Excellent and talented woodworkers are leaving, or should I say, “just not coming back” – a little data can be found here.

I note in passing that someone with sufficient power to remove projects has been on the site (since projects have been removed) since this topic was posted, but my question, “Who is supposed to be running this site, and why aren’t they actually doing so?”, has still not been answered.

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

View Tom Godfrey's profile

Tom Godfrey

466 posts in 832 days


#24 posted 08-08-2012 11:03 AM

Lets don’t mess up a good thing. Read what applies to you and ignore all the rest. What is broke or wrong to one or a few people doesn’t mean its wrong for all the rest. Life isn’t prefect and never will be so why worry over something when in fact it isn’t that big of an issue.
For me I am pleased with this site. I get to check out all the projects, comments that apply to me, and what more could I ask for? Maybe a few years down the road I may think different.
Please keep in mind this site is free. The old saying is “Never look a gift horse in the mouth.”
Some of you may not understand that but that’s the one way to tell the age of a horse.
I love the word “free” so please don’t mess that up for me

-- Tom Godfrey Landrum South Carolina (tom@thcww.com)

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KnickKnack

988 posts in 2223 days


#25 posted 08-08-2012 12:26 PM

Tom Godfrey: Lets don’t mess up a good thing

I agree 100% with that sentiment, and it was for that very reason that I created this forum topic – because, in my view, the site is being messed up by whoever it may be that is (not) running it. My opinion only, of course, other may disagree.

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

View Alexandre's profile

Alexandre

1417 posts in 847 days


#26 posted 08-08-2012 12:53 PM

Technically, I think there should be another mod… Like a1jim or someone…
But, with all the ads and donators, surly Martin is getting cash in his pocket…. Like he made the forum for money….

-- My terrible signature...

View Jorge G.'s profile

Jorge G.

1526 posts in 1131 days


#27 posted 08-08-2012 04:57 PM

In a perfect world there would be no spammers, no insults in the off topic forum, no cheats, etc. But this is not a perfect world nor are the owners/operators of this site. You can’t fault them for missing a few things here and there.

The fact that there is no response on the feedback forum does not mean the person that made the OP was not contacted. It simply means there was not a posted response. Do not assume members are being ignored.

In every forum there is an ebb and flow, people start very enthusiastic, and after a few months they stop woodworking, get too much work, decided they did not like the site, etc. This is the same on every forum regardless of subject matter.

Bottom line I rather have the forum as is than one that is run like SMC, where posts are deleted left and right, you can’t make an honest review of a product and members are treated like children (although some behave that way).

On the subject of money, I doubt Martin is on the Fiji islands with an umbrella drink in one hand and a babe on the other due to the revenue of this site. Ultimately you asked for other forums, you were given choices, yet here you are. I guess like this forum you could not find the perfect forum somewhere else.

In the end I really do not understand your complaint.
The OT forum is a damn if you do damn if you don’t issue, they remove it, people bitch, they keep it, people bitch. I for one never visit the OT forum and find LJ just right.

The enlargement “advertisements” I have yet to see one, either as a forum topic or a banner, so don’t know what you are talking about.

All forums have spammers or fake members join to cause problems, if there has been a slew of them lately, that is just the nature of the internet, once they find LJ useless for their purpose they stop coming.

The rubber necker is as must at fault as the accident itself for slowing down traffic. Why don’t you just concentrate on enjoying what you like about LJ and relax about the rest?

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

View Kookaburra's profile

Kookaburra

748 posts in 880 days


#28 posted 08-08-2012 05:37 PM

Just because I am always currious, I looked up some site stats on LJ. Here is the 12 month traffic volume:

Looks like it might be somewhat seasonal, but not a huge change over the last year overall.

Where visitors hail from was more interesting:

Who are all of those visitors from India?

-- Kay - Just a girl who loves wood.

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FarmerB

6 posts in 782 days


#29 posted 08-08-2012 05:51 PM

Well, this might get lost in the shuffle here, but I’m glad I stumbled across this topic.

I signed up to the site 8 days ago and tried to create a forum topic asking for advice on tackling a challenging part of a project. I’m pretty sure I posted to the correct forum and there was nothing in the post that would be perceived as spam or off-topic. That post still hasn’t been approved and since it was my first, I can’t create another topic to ask how long it typically takes to get the first one approved. 8 days is a lifetime on the internet.

I’ve tried emailing info@lumberjocks.com (the only thing I could find that might lead me to an administrator or moderator) and received no response.

Not sure what the issue is, but it certainly doesn’t make new users feel very welcome.

View Bsmith's profile

Bsmith

305 posts in 1326 days


#30 posted 08-08-2012 05:52 PM

I visit this site almost daily and I guess I just don’t see the issues others are refering to. If you”re getting pop ups be sure you are signed in to the account. The last time I check this was a free site that offers invaluable woodworking information. The tips and knowledge I’ve received from this site far outweight the occational off topics, which I don’t read anyway. Don’t let the few bad post or topics ruin the whole site. Like I always say, “Chew the meat and spit out the bones.” As A1Jim said; (paraphrase) we all have different taste, that doesn’t make it right or wrong… just different. As for me I’m choosing to stay… I like chicken. ;-)

-- Bryan

View rance's profile

rance

4132 posts in 1817 days


#31 posted 08-08-2012 06:11 PM

Thanks KC. Luckilly I did not vote for that one.

I’ve heard from Martin that the ads are geared towards the cookies it finds on your computer.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View Jorge G.'s profile

Jorge G.

1526 posts in 1131 days


#32 posted 08-08-2012 06:48 PM

Looks like it might be somewhat seasonal, but not a huge change over the last year overall.

True, but the graph does not tell you anything about the quality of the members and their participation. Participation from foreign members is limited to their capability of communicating n English.

One thing I have noticed is that those who start a particular thread are pretty good at policing it. I don’t know why, but my experience with LJ has been vastly different than yours.

It is not perfect, they do make mistakes sometimes, but heck life is like this, nothing ever is perfect.

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

View BTimmons's profile

BTimmons

2127 posts in 1141 days


#33 posted 08-08-2012 07:08 PM

Kay,

India has something like 1/6th of the world population, so I’m not surprised to see a lot of web traffic from there. I’ll bet the numbers would be even higher if more of the country was as modernized as its major cities.

-- Brian Timmons - http://www.BigTWoodworks.com

View Julian's profile

Julian

509 posts in 1347 days


#34 posted 08-08-2012 07:41 PM

I think some people need to take a deep breath and relax.

-- Julian

View crashn's profile

crashn

518 posts in 1122 days


#35 posted 08-09-2012 12:53 AM

Gregtheboxsculptor,

I guess I am one of those you pointed to. I post, but have not yet posted a project. I consider my self a very junior woodworker and have not had anything of any caliber to post.

However, contrary to your statement, I am building my skills and one day hope to post a project worthy of this site.

Maybe the borg has taken over ;)

crashn

-- Crashn - the only thing I make more of than sawdust is mistakes

View rance's profile

rance

4132 posts in 1817 days


#36 posted 08-09-2012 03:50 PM

Given the possibility(and now, actuality) of false entries, I would certainly recommend to the management that all entrants be vetted to some extent. Require they be 90 days or more a member, and maybe with a minimum number of, say 100 posts?

I also like Shipwright’s suggestion of no ‘old’ entries. These should be built specifically for the contest.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3766 posts in 2024 days


#37 posted 11-24-2012 03:55 AM

Leave well enough alone!

Problem areas have tendency to level out all by themselves since all content on this site is of human origin it will moderate itself just by human nature as interests wax and wane!

As far as the pop up adds go, there are two solutions:
  1. Get a pop up blocker for your PC and this will block all, even some that might interest you!
  2. Delete your cookies before you visit LJs as the majority of the adds are a result of cookies in your PC.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Rick's profile

Rick

6454 posts in 1689 days


#38 posted 11-26-2012 05:29 AM

OH GOOD!! Another of MY Posts Removed for NO apparent reason other than supporting the Author.

Perhaps that’s the one you’re replying to “Old Novice”??

(edited)

After a “Facebook Mail” to an “Administrator”. i.e. “It wasn’t my fault.”

Now this one will probably get ”Yanked” also.

-- COMMON SENSE Is Like Deodorant. The People Who need It Most, Never Use It.

View Rick's profile

Rick

6454 posts in 1689 days


#39 posted 11-26-2012 08:00 PM

Well it didn’t get Yanked but it DID get (Edited) as you can see above. “I” did not Edit it!!

It was a comment about a “Certain Member” who BLANTLY STOLE My IDENTITY and Blasted it all over this site! Then accusses me of STALKING Him. I can assure you that I’d rather sit and watch Paint Dry then Stalk Anyone here or anywhere else.

The fact that I Mentioned his name above is what got it (Edited) I would assume.

So now our Posts don’t simply get “Flagged” and removed even if they DON’T Deserve to be, now they get CENSORED!

ANYONE in “ADMIN” care to explain that and WHO Edited it and WHY?? Was it a LIE? NO!

Also please tell me why it’s even worth Posting if someone is going to come along and “EDIT” the Post.

Is there a “Rule” that I Violated?

ENOUGH!!

-- COMMON SENSE Is Like Deodorant. The People Who need It Most, Never Use It.

View Dan'um Style's profile

Dan'um Style

13003 posts in 2639 days


#40 posted 11-26-2012 10:04 PM

(Edited)

-- keeping myself entertained ... Humor and fun lubricate the brain

View Rick's profile

Rick

6454 posts in 1689 days


#41 posted 11-26-2012 10:32 PM

Hey Dan:

You have something to say? Say it!!

Stop with the Unwitty Punch Lines Or Hints!

You could always try this again.

==================================================

==================================================

Why are you using LJ’s URL as your Personal Web Site on your Profile and as above.

Your Post on getting more LJ Donors? Just in case You aren’t aware….That Stopped after the Site was Sold.

If anyone clicks on that link then Clicks on Highlited “Donors” all it does it take you to the “Most Active” LJ’ers.

-- COMMON SENSE Is Like Deodorant. The People Who need It Most, Never Use It.

View MsDebbieP's profile

MsDebbieP

18615 posts in 2817 days


#42 posted 11-26-2012 10:42 PM

be civil.
Editing will be done to eliminate personal attacks and please don’t dredge up things from past history to get the pot stirring again.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (https://www.facebook.com/DebbiePribeleENJOConsultant)

View vipond33's profile

vipond33

1405 posts in 1154 days


#43 posted 11-26-2012 11:33 PM

(Edited)

-- gene@toronto.ontario.canada : dovetail free since '53, critiques always welcome.

View Rick's profile

Rick

6454 posts in 1689 days


#44 posted 11-26-2012 11:37 PM

*

-- COMMON SENSE Is Like Deodorant. The People Who need It Most, Never Use It.

View Dan'um Style's profile

Dan'um Style

13003 posts in 2639 days


#45 posted 11-27-2012 12:53 AM

(Edited)

-- keeping myself entertained ... Humor and fun lubricate the brain

View Rick's profile

Rick

6454 posts in 1689 days


#46 posted 11-27-2012 01:10 AM

Here we go again. What Purpose does that Comment serve Mr. Dan? OR Vipond?

A measure of your Intelligence? Or more …...Forget it.

I refuse to enter into a Battle Of Wits With Unarmed Opponents.

Okay. Your Turn. (Edited)

-- COMMON SENSE Is Like Deodorant. The People Who need It Most, Never Use It.

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vipond33

1405 posts in 1154 days


#47 posted 11-27-2012 01:35 AM

Dan, Dan, even fish that live in a barrel have a right to life

-- gene@toronto.ontario.canada : dovetail free since '53, critiques always welcome.

View Dan'um Style's profile

Dan'um Style

13003 posts in 2639 days


#48 posted 11-27-2012 02:59 AM

Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted or obsessive attention by an individual toward another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them. The word stalking is used, with some differing meanings, in psychology and psychiatry and also in some legal jurisdictions as a term for a criminal offense.

Cyberstalking is the use of computers or other electronic technology to facilitate stalking.

Types of stalkers

Psychologists often group individuals who stalk into two categories: psychotic and nonpsychotic.[14] Stalkers may have pre-existing psychotic disorders such as delusional disorder, schizoaffective disorder, or schizophrenia. Most stalkers are nonpsychotic and may exhibit disorders or neuroses such as major depression, adjustment disorder, or substance dependence, as well as a variety of Axis II personality disorders (such as antisocial, borderline, dependent, narcissistic, or paranoid). Some of the symptoms of “obsessing” over a person is part of obsessive compulsive personality disorder. The nonpsychotic stalkers’ pursuit of victims can be influenced by various psychological factors, including anger, hostility, projection of blame, obsession, dependency, minimization, denial, and jealousy. Conversely, as is more commonly the case, the stalker has no antipathic feelings towards the victim, but simply a longing that cannot be fulfilled due to deficiencies either in their personality or their society’s norms.[15]

In “A Study of Stalkers” Mullen et al.. (2000)[16] identified five types of stalkers:

Rejected stalkers pursue their victims in order to reverse, correct, or avenge a rejection (e.g. divorce, separation, termination).
Resentful stalkers pursue a vendetta because of a sense of grievance against the victims – motivated mainly by the desire to frighten and distress the victim.
Intimacy seekers seek to establish an intimate, loving relationship with their victim. To many of them the victim is a long-sought-after soul mate, and they were ‘meant’ to be together.
Incompetent suitors, despite poor social or courting skills, have a fixation, or in some cases, a sense of entitlement to an intimate relationship with those who have attracted their amorous interest. Their victims are most often already in a dating relationship with someone else.
Predatory stalkers spy on the victim in order to prepare and plan an attack – often sexual – on the victim.

The 2002 National Victim Association Academy defines an additional form of stalking: The vengeance/terrorist stalker. Both the vengeance stalker and terrorist stalker (the latter sometimes called the political stalker) do not, in contrast with some of the aforementioned types of stalkers, seek a personal relationship with their victims but rather force them to emit a certain response favourable to the stalker. While the vengeance stalker’s motive is “to get even” with the other person whom he/she perceives has done some wrong to them (e.g., an employee who believes is fired without justification from their job by their superior), the political stalker intends to accomplish a political agenda, also using threats and intimidation to force his/her target to refrain and/or become involved in some particular activity, regardless of the victim’s consent.[17]

Many stalkers[quantify] fit categories with paranoia disorders. Intimacy-seeking stalkers often have delusional disorders involving erotomanic delusions. With rejected stalkers, the continual clinging to a relationship of an inadequate or dependent person couples with the entitlement of the narcissistic personality, and the persistent jealousy of the paranoid personality. In contrast, resentful stalkers demonstrate an almost “pure culture of persecution,” with delusional disorders of the paranoid type, paranoid personalities, and paranoid schizophrenia.[16]

One of the uncertainties in understanding the origins of stalking is that the concept is now widely understood in terms of specific behaviors18 which are found to be offensive and/or illegal. As discussed above, these specific (apparently stalking) behaviors may have multiple motivations.

In addition, the personality characteristics that are often discussed as antecedent to stalking may also produce behavior that is not stalking as conventionally defined. Some research suggests there is a spectrum of what might be called “obsessed following behavior.” People who complain obsessively and for years, about a perceived wrong or wrong-doer, when no one else can perceive the injury—and people who cannot or will not “let go” of a person or a place or an idea—comprise a wider group of persons that may be problematic in ways that seem similar to stalking. Some of these people get extruded from their organizations—they may get hospitalized or fired or let go if their behavior is defined in terms of illegal stalking, but many others do good or even excellent work in their organizations and appear to have just one focus of tenacious obsession.[19]

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