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wood working, and lumberjocks

by grizzman
posted 08-04-2012 08:57 PM

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105 replies

105 replies so far

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Monte Pittman

29386 posts in 2362 days

#1 posted 08-04-2012 09:03 PM

Couldn’t agree more. There are plenty of sites dedicated to the other topics. Let this be for our crafts and the beauty of it. That is the sole reason I came here.

-- Nature created it, I just assemble it.

View cstrang's profile


1832 posts in 3192 days

#2 posted 08-04-2012 09:08 PM

Amen brother! (oops, that too much religion? lol) I agree 100% that there is too much arguing and other childish things going on here, i want it back the way it was too, when it was woodworkers talking about woodworking, sharing helpful hints, tips and techniques and answering other woodworkers questions. There are places for religious and political views but one of those places is not LumberJocks, everyone has different outlooks on those two subjects and everyone is entitled to believe and think what they want but you dont need to verbalize your thoughts on the political and religious front everywhere you go. Thanks for posting this grizz, maybe we will be able to see some change in our future and get back to the good ole days.

-- A hammer dangling from a wall will bang and sound like work when the wind blows the right way.

View richgreer's profile


4541 posts in 3098 days

#3 posted 08-04-2012 09:08 PM

Absolutely! I’ve been here over 2 1/2 years and I yearn for what it was like earlier. These political discussions are destroying what was a great site. There are lots of other places for such discussions.

I’m reluctant to leave, but I will if this continues.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View Keith Fenton's profile

Keith Fenton

328 posts in 2944 days

#4 posted 08-04-2012 09:14 PM

Yes but different sites come with an entirely different group of people. I don’t want to go discuss every topic under the sun each with a different group of random strangers who happen to feel like talking about that subject at the moment.

I don’t participate in political threads anymore. 99% of the time I don’t even read the thread if it’s political. It’s not that hard to do. Just because I don’t want to participate, doesn’t mean I think others shouldn’t be allowed to. It’s that simple.

Once political/religious topics are banned, in comes heavy-handed censorship. A harmless conversation steers towards anything that hints politics or religion and in swoop the whiners, who call in the moderators (I’m telling mommy!) , and the thread gets closed or chopped up. Censorship sucks.

-- Scroll saw patterns @

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17423 posts in 3030 days

#5 posted 08-04-2012 09:36 PM

I too remember the “nicer” days where 99% of the members were all for helping one another and the kind acts were much more abundant. Its not to say that it doesnt happen anymore because it does but most of the time its overshadowed. Its too bad that we have to sift through the rubbish to find the gold.


Shop song of the day
The time Patrons truck broke down.
The time MY WIFE dropped the clippers down the toilet

These were the off topic’s that kept us loose and let us goof around showing the other side of being a woodworker. Friends were made in abundance, enemies were non existent. Ok this is gettin all John Lennon … anyway thanks Grizz.

-- Its not a crack, its a casting imperfection.

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875 posts in 2919 days

#6 posted 08-04-2012 09:47 PM

I agree. I come to this forum for woodworking, so I really don’t look at the off-topic stuff. I’m more interested in projects and contests and tips and jigs. If I want political discussions and other such, I suspect I could find a website dedicated specifically to that. All the off-topic stuff here doesn’t bother me, because I don’t look at it! Problem solved for me! I certainly would hate for anyone to leave, or to be upset enough to leave. Hopefully all those who enjoy arguing will get their fill or pop a gasket or something. Life’s too short, don’t waste it!

-- Mike P., Arkansas,

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67 posts in 2897 days

#7 posted 08-04-2012 09:49 PM

I usually never come to the off topic. If I don’t like something I just don’t look at it or go to where it is off topic. Easy enough for me!

View DeputyDawg's profile


196 posts in 3989 days

#8 posted 08-04-2012 09:56 PM

Glad to see these answers to the present problems with this site. I have always said that if you want to get onto a site that You will never hear a negative remark, and always have someone to help you with your wood working skills and be able to see the finest wood workers in the WORLD not just around where you live then join the LumberJocks. Nicely put guys and glad to see it posted.

-- DeputyDawg

View stefang's profile


15881 posts in 3358 days

#9 posted 08-04-2012 09:56 PM

There is certainly nothing wrong with wanting folks to have good manners Grizz. So kudos for bringing up the subject.

I don’t like the discussions about controversial subjects either. I joined LJ to enjoy the company of other woodworkers, not to argue with them. I’m sure we all break the rules sometimes, mostly in small and inconsequential ways, but I agree that some people can’t help themselves from bringing in some negativity, so I just don’t participate in those threads.

It seems to me that an overwhelming majority of LJ members are very polite and positive. That in itself says a lot about the typical member without others needing to know his political or religious affiliations. I don’t mind if the rules are changed, but I can’t say that it is a burning issue with me as long as I can opt out on the negative discussions.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

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196 posts in 3989 days

#10 posted 08-04-2012 10:01 PM

And I would like to add. I could use more Buddies so if you would like to be my buddie please do

-- DeputyDawg

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4017 posts in 2432 days

#11 posted 08-04-2012 10:04 PM

Well….........................................................A while back, taking a cue from a politcal prof at the local college, I joined the “you win” category of debate. Whenever I get into a “debate” I just say to myself….’let them win.’ LOL It’s so much easier to believe strongly in what YOU believe than in wasting a hell of a lot of energy trying to convert the unconvertable. I like visiting and participating on lumberjocks because there are people of like minds here with a similar goal in mind…to learn, share, and show off. I have done all but lessof the last than I’d like. LOL

Folks, life is short. If you wanna spend it getting all worked up over something you absolutely cannot change….knock yourself out. I gave up a long time ago. It aint worth it. I dont visit any of the non-woodworking forums on here because I AM HERE for the wood…
that and that only. I could go on and on but I will just close by saying….if it bothers you…dont go read it. Most of the people that we are talking about are insecure to begin with and I just have no time for BS(not band saw) in my life today. Make a choice and stick with it.

Dont know if any of the above made any sense to y’all but it made sense to me.

PS——Ricky Nelson——you cant please everyone…so you’ve got to please yourself.” Well worth listening to—-

-- Use it up, Wear it out --------------- Make it do, Or do without!

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2738 posts in 3456 days

#12 posted 08-04-2012 10:08 PM

I totally agree, Grizz. I too remember when Lumberjocks was about woodworking and woodworking RELATED issues. I find myself coming here less and less… we have lost some really good woodworkers and posters due to the inflammatory rhetoric of some morons…. It is time to go back to our roots.

-- "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Voltaire

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7992 posts in 2822 days

#13 posted 08-04-2012 10:49 PM

You have my vote Grizz.
I almost never look in the “off topics”. When I do I find that it usually spoils my mental image of some “friend” or other. The anonymity of the internet allows us all to be friends and buddies in woodworking without having to know all about each others’ views on divisive, non woodworking topics. I like it that way.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees.

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117115 posts in 3601 days

#14 posted 08-04-2012 11:03 PM

I agree with you buddy about Ljs subjects should focus on woodworking but there’s always are a dozen or so folks that love the topics on non shop talk and a few of them love to talk about politics an religion the most. Unless Martin bands those subjects(which I doubt will happen) all we can do is click on the “hide non shop talk” toggle button and enjoy the rest of the forum. I miss the good old days too and a lot of the folks who have left . I’m sure glad you and Ellen and a long list of good folks are still here. In short lets all be kind and respectful of each other not matter what forum we are in.

-- wood crafting & woodworking classes

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35125 posts in 4424 days

#15 posted 08-04-2012 11:05 PM

Clap – Clap.

I went to post on your first one and it was gone.

Glad you decided to bring another back in it’s place.

You can have strong ideas about religion and politics, but I don’t think that you are going to change anyone’s opinion by posting it on lumberjocks.

Go stand on a corner on a soapbox and put out your spiel if you want—but keep it away from LumberJocks. Your not going to change my opinion on who I’m going to vote for or where I spend my Sundays.

-- I've been blessed with a father who liked to tinker in wood, and a wife who lets me tinker in wood. Southern Delaware soon moving to Virginia †

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980 posts in 3074 days

#16 posted 08-04-2012 11:08 PM

Me too. I have gotten to the point I don’t come here as much as I used too. One can allways not click on off-topic posts, but in doing so one can miss a valuable post that the op didn’t know where to post. Politics and religion have NO place here. I think sometimes site owners let stuff like this go because it attracts lots of attention-good or bad- and that spells revenue. Thanks Grizz


-- Steve in KY. 44 years so far with my lovely bride. Think I'll keep her.

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David Kirtley

1286 posts in 3022 days

#17 posted 08-04-2012 11:37 PM

The real problem is that there are a few that come here where they are “safe.” If it were a forum where people were really familiar and interested in the topics, they would get banned. They can come here where it is off topic and can push buttons and get a rise out of the few who don’t recognize the recycled talking points that they are repeating from elsewhere. Then the ones that get sucked into the frenzy go overboard in frustration. The rest are just like the people that can’t help but look at the highway accident.

I will admit to admiring the one well crafted troll. I just can’t see it being worth the effort to keep it up. I guess I am just basically lazy that way.

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune:

View Viking's profile


880 posts in 3219 days

#18 posted 08-05-2012 12:08 AM


Could not agree more! I keep asking what would happen if you wento on a “Political” web site, right or left, and started a post about a wood working subject. Think you would be banned??

Thanks for a great post!

-- Rick Gustafson - Lost Creek Ranch - Colorado County, Texas

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18286 posts in 3699 days

#19 posted 08-05-2012 12:28 AM

I think the habitual posting a new thread everyday or 2 is out of hand. I don’t mind an occasional and I have not been paying much attention until the last few days. Occasionally I will try to insert some historical facts into a mess of passionate ignorance, but it is a pointless pursuit most of the time. It is too bad so many of them stoup to childish behaviour and have no respect for the others.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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18286 posts in 3699 days

#20 posted 08-05-2012 12:36 AM

An afterthought: The turning point on LJ seems to have been when a previous member who was removed inserted his right to use a female avatar that was especially offensive to many. It progressed to posting porn.

I guess this is a natural progression of mankind. I remember a few turning points in the deterioration of, shall we say “ethics”, and the public discourse in America. The point of this thread is we don’t want to go there.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Dez's profile


1166 posts in 4101 days

#21 posted 08-05-2012 12:49 AM

I agree!
Although I am also willing to say is “Don’t go there!”
No different than when my father told me that some people or places are “Off” limits!
Just don’t go there!
Anyone that keeps going “there” has a fascination with it!
If it bothers you – don’t go there!!!!!
Let those that will – go, you do NOT have to visit there OR see it!!
This discussion belongs there as it is NOT woodworking related!
Ignore it!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Folly ever comes cloaked in opportunity!

View bunkie's profile


412 posts in 3171 days

#22 posted 08-05-2012 01:00 AM

I posted a similar request a few months back and got the usual mix of agreement and “get over it posts”. I think the real issue is not the discussion of the subjects per se, but the combination of too-frequent posts that are clearly meant to be rabble-rousing and the inevitable personal attacks. My feeling is that the political process really matters and it’s important to have meaningful discussions thereof. While a public space, this board is privately owned and operated and the decisions as to to content rules is solely in the hands of the owners and I respect that, whatever they decide.

I’ve come to believe that it’s impossible to use political orientation to judge a person’s character. I think that’s the mistake that some posters make. There are members whose political opinions I find laughable who are, nonetheless, very generous with their time and expertise and I am glad that they are here sharing what they know.

In the end, it’s up to each of us to rise above the temptation to cross the line into personal and ad hominem attacks. In fact, I think that proper behavior adds to the credibility of the arguments that one makes in such discussions.

-- Altruism is, ultimately, self-serving

View EPJartisan's profile


1118 posts in 3149 days

#23 posted 08-05-2012 01:06 AM

I agree.. yet, I am guilty… and yet I have to disagree a little.I love this site. I am a better woodworker.. hell a better artist for the inspiration and knowledge shared here. But I have to keep in mind of how I found LumberJocks in the first place. I have tried other resources and knowledge sharing sites, but none have been as rich and easy to use. SO here’s my story.. Being a woodworker with an “alternative lifestyle” I am often asked are there many people like me in woodworking. So I searched the internet… yes, please, I am not instigating…I searched for “Gay Woodworkers” nestled among lots of horrible comments, jokes, and porn… was a comment from someone on here that they did not care if a person was christian or gay and that it was all about woodworking. Well, I joined and thought I could just be myself… I was terribly wrong, but even while I was being sent horrible PMs and blasted on the forums.. the sheer beauty of what you people make made it so hard for me to walk away. I stayed, the people who tormented me are gone. So, had there been a ban on controversial subjects I might not have found this site… or maybe I would have eventually.. i don’t know.. sigh.

I try so hard not to hit the off topic posts, but I recently found that not all of them are about fighting and some were quite interesting regarding the people here and the business we share… but like I wrote above I am guilty. Occasionally, like the last week, I have been in a slump in the studio and turn to LJ’s for inspiration or distraction… BOY was I distracted… I hate getting so angry and frustrated. So does my husband and every assistant I have ever had over the last 3 years. They understand why I belong, but none of them want me to be on here, for the way it hurts my life as well. I want just to be one of the pack of LumberJocks and most of you always make me feel welcome and relaxed. I apologize for giving into the temptation and doing what we are all tired of on here. Thanks Grizzman…

-- " 'Truth' is like a beautiful flower, unique to each plant and to the season it blossoms ... 'Fact' is the root and leaf, allowing the plant grow and bloom again."

View woodklutz's profile


221 posts in 2792 days

#24 posted 08-05-2012 01:07 AM

I agree. Hopefully there are more of us them.
Maybe we should create a “splinter group”(groan)

-- honing my craft one mistake at a time.

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1415 posts in 2621 days

#25 posted 08-05-2012 01:09 AM

You can count me in. This is about woodworking, nothing else.

-- Flaws are only in the eye of the artisan!

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8565 posts in 2638 days

#26 posted 08-05-2012 01:27 AM

i dont really agree Grizz ,its a open forum ,i dont really go there often but from time to time ,i like reading other points of view ,its just politics thats all ,they do moderate them somewhat but is a right to say what you want its freedom of speech,just dont go to them .its just a thread you can stop your self ,most all this site is woodworkers and they come in all shapes and sizes we,ll never all agree on politics or religion ,what you posted is no problem and and as far as fight, i know you enogh to know you would not start one ,but if someone said you could not post your say ,i will stand with you and we will fight them as most all would , have read all there rants and raves they are just hveing there say.we may not agree on this but i still love ya and have the upmost respect for you Grizz

-- Jesus Is Alright with me

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Jim Crockett (USN Retired)

852 posts in 3757 days

#27 posted 08-05-2012 01:34 AM

I, too, yearn for the day when Lumberjocks was a WOODWORKING site and people went out of their way to be polite to one another. Help was always just a question away – still is to some extent – but we didn’t have to weed through the BS to get to woodworking posts. I find myself spending much less time on LJ lately, guess this is why… a different mindset on the part of some/many of the posters. I get enough of the crap listening to commercials and the nightly news – I don’t need to subject myself to even more on a “woodworking” site that’s on it’s way to “gone bad”.

-- A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including his/her life".

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Tom Godfrey

488 posts in 2199 days

#28 posted 08-05-2012 02:39 AM

I have only been on this site for a short period of time and have enjoyed every moment I have spend checking out projects that LJ members have built and was in awe at most of those. I have about 60 people added as buddies. No I don’t know all of them but for what ever reason I wanted to keep in touch with the projects they did or were going to do in the future.
In my personal life I don’t listen to news on TV or watch anything that I feel isn’t in line with my way of thinking. I don’t read trash on LJ either. I refuse to let anyone control how I feel and for that reason I leave all that junk to someone else to read.
Don’t read it and don’t respond to that junk and it will go away on its own. Its like getting into a fuss with someone. The only way that can happen is for two people to keep talking. If one of the two says nothing then a fuss want take place.
I promise as long as I am a member of this site you will never hear me say any negative thing or make any comments that should hurt anyone’s feeling. If i do or have then I am sorry for that and hope you will forgive me.
Several members have shared with me about projects and helped me when I needed help and I appreciate that and will do the same for anyone that I can help.

-- Tom Godfrey Landrum South Carolina (

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#29 posted 08-05-2012 03:01 AM

I completely agree with you Grizz :)

-- - Eric Noblesville, IN

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#30 posted 08-05-2012 04:00 AM

May Allah keep and bless you grizzman. He loves you.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

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#31 posted 08-05-2012 04:25 AM

Lookie here Third most popular forum. Numbers = revenue = profit = ultimate goal of business

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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Craftsman on the lake

2794 posts in 3461 days

#32 posted 08-05-2012 04:29 AM

Bravo Grizz. Well said.

I’m considering becoming a rare visitor/poster after finishing posting my latest blog string.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

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1862 posts in 2363 days

#33 posted 08-05-2012 05:40 AM

I want to agree, but unfortunately politics saturate your society. It does not matter what you do, politics are involved. Go shopping with your wife for house paint. What color? Politics. Go to work. Boss wants dados, you want splines. Politics.
Also this is an election year, where there are a lot of unhappy people because of a bunch of reasons (the reasons are the cause of all the bad vibes on this site) and at the end of the year I wish that we can all kiss and make up, and it will be business as usual.
That is my hope. Yes I am involved in the political debates. The one reason is I hate to see people slamming others for no reason other than being red or blue.
Isn’t strange that 20 years ago being red was being a commie and now it means being to the right.

-- Thor and Odin are still the greatest of Gods.

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618 posts in 3170 days

#34 posted 08-05-2012 05:45 AM

I un buddied Abbot a few days ago just cuz he hasn’t said any thing for a long time. He used to be a handful. It’s hard not to mix philosophy with art, wood working is not for the weak of mind. Some threads go for so long and folks get way off the subject but hey there are your great stories too. Having the experience of LJS is worth the small stuff and I admire all here.

-- $tudie

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#35 posted 08-05-2012 06:10 AM

I agree as well with Grizzman. I have participated in the off topic forums and I am a firm believer in freedom of speech regardless from the right or the left with respect to politics but the content lately has been rude, disgusting & disrespectful. It’s one thing to have a differing opinion than the next person but when it gets malicious and hateful then those people should not be allowed on this site. Talk about politics or religion on the off topic forum? Sure but the minute you resort to name calling, personnel attacks then you should be booted. If you wish to disagree, that is fine but you must maintain respect and a certain amount of decorum. There are many people that have come here that are very fine woodworkers that have left because in there opinion we have a site while having fine projects have an area where it is allowed to treat people in a hateful manner.

I still think there is a place for off topic content but come on lets have some behavior standards attached to this area.

-- Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops

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1166 posts in 4101 days

#36 posted 08-05-2012 06:36 AM

I do know what you mean by “looking for peace”!
After almost as many years as most of you have spent, I finally realized that it is all “in where you look”!
I stopped looking in “trouble spots” when I wanted peacefulness.
I am buddies with a bunch of folks here because they contribute to MY inner peace.
My buddies are my buddies because I relate in some way – a challenge of some sort (wood, technique, attitude etc.) or sometimes when I am looking for acknowledgement !
I come to LJ’s because of you folks!
I do not go through the forums or blogs looking for ”**”, etc because I only have time for positive stuff!
Ignore the “prissy shit” because none of us real people have time for it!
Scroll past it and only post when you need to share and ignore the rest!

-- Folly ever comes cloaked in opportunity!

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14940 posts in 2714 days

#37 posted 08-05-2012 12:41 PM

I’ll second the motion Grizz and add that it would be nice if everyone could just learn to “play nice”

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

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4611 posts in 3060 days

#38 posted 08-05-2012 01:02 PM

Whilst I agree with you in principle, Grizz, where there is freedom some will always express their freedom to be and idiot. I find it best to not look at anything thats not directly woodwork related. I would not like to live under a totalitarian regime where my every post is censored. If people want to play with their own shit let them. It says more about them than it does about we who don’t.

-- Martyn -- Boxologist, Pattern Juggler and Candyman of the visually challenging.

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2672 posts in 3115 days

#39 posted 08-05-2012 03:41 PM

no one posting political or religious threads are breaking any rules. They are posted in the Off Topic Forum, and the off topic forum allows them. When someone does break a rule while posting or responding then that should be tagged.

I never get involved in political and religious threads. For me….lumberjocks hasnt changed at all. I still come for the woodworking, and thats exactly what i see…..woodworking. When I want to venture off into the off topic forum. I do… When I dont….I dont. Pretty simple. its the EXACT same concept of not clicking on particular projects you’re not interested in. No one FORCES you to click on projects you aren’t interested in…right? Well, no one is forcing you to click on off topic content…right? I dont understand why people get so upset at this. It literally boggles my mind. And then they create posts like this one, which isnt any better than the political and religious threads themselves….this has nothing to do with woodworking either…

I truly dont see this as a lumberjock problem. I see this as some members want this site to be exactly how they want it to be. I suggest that they go create their own site, and have on that site exactly what they want to see, and nothing else. The people who own lumberjocks have this site exactly how they want it…otherwise they would have changed it by now….i’m just here to enjoy the ride. Which is exactly what I do….

Didnt mean any of this as a personal attack on you Grizzman…please dont take it personal. I’m speaking in general

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

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3940 posts in 2528 days

#40 posted 08-05-2012 04:22 PM

As you all say, if this is just about woodworking and nothing else…what the heck are you all doing in the nonshop talk forum? Stay in the wood forums and everyone will be happy. May Allah give you the strength and discipline to keep you from the forum that so offends you.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

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4356 posts in 3758 days

#41 posted 08-05-2012 04:33 PM

I just don’t get it…in my 45 years of woodworking, hobby woodwork, production shops, custom millwork and cabinetry shops, working side-by-side with other craftsmen, hanging out with other woodworkers, ....AND NOT ONCE DID ANYBODY EVER DISAGREE WITH ONE ANOTHER”S OPINION!!!! Not once, not even when the subject of religion, abortion, or politics or other topic in the course of conversation. :-\ Then I came to Lumberjocks… and for the first time I heard people disagree with one another’s opinion. How could that be, Grizzman? (Note the sarcasm?)

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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#42 posted 08-05-2012 04:56 PM

well it sounds like you worked in some pretty special places, and im glad you had that, everyone here has there right to how they feel, ’’there opinion” and i would fight to the death for that to always be so, no one here should ever want to take away that right, but what im asking for is a change in how things happen here, i am not saying that someone cant do what is in the currant rules, they have that right, but i would like to see this site one that is centered on wood working, take the other things to a different site, they cause arguing, they cause back biting, personal attacks, swearing, i would like these subjects that cause those things to be changed, and ive asked for voices of those who feel the same, people dont always agree with what someone else wants, it will always be that way, im not here to argue or be disrespectful to anyone or there say, but i stand in wanting a change, those are my feelings and that is my opinion. im looking for things to be better…those other things are not good, you have light and you have dark, i want to see more light, good feelings, and most of all, i want to see LUMBERJOCKS, a wood working site, where that is what we talk about, not the other…i wont post here again, as im not here to argue or to further defend my opinion.i wish and hope the best for every person here, and each one has there right to feel as they please.

-- GRIZZMAN ...[''''']

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#43 posted 08-05-2012 05:00 PM


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#44 posted 08-05-2012 05:08 PM

Amen brother!

-- Ron Wilson - maker of fine firewood!

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#45 posted 08-05-2012 05:22 PM

agreed and supported grizz! why do u think im barely on this site anymore….too much b.s (and im not talking bandsaw). i miss everyone but there no point in being here if everyones too focused on everything else but woodwork.

-- M.K.

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3902 posts in 3721 days

#46 posted 08-05-2012 06:55 PM

I agree with you 200% grizz but some people just cannot put “POLITICS and RELIGION” aside it’s a way of life with them.
That will never change and it’s a no win subject why they do it I don’t know.

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3940 posts in 2528 days

#47 posted 08-05-2012 07:07 PM

Freedom of thought and speech probably has something to do with their actions, GMman.

May Allah bestow you with patience for those with thoughts that do not match yours.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

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18286 posts in 3699 days

#48 posted 08-05-2012 09:17 PM

This quote is slightly edited for obvious reasons ;-)

Please give us grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things
we can change,
and the Wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.

Living one day at a time,
Enjoying one moment at a time,
Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace,
Taking this sinful world as it is,
Not as I would have it,
Trusting that You will make all things right,
If I surrender to Your will,
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life and on this site.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View DKV's profile


3940 posts in 2528 days

#49 posted 08-05-2012 09:22 PM

Allah is happy with your post Topa. May he bless you.

-- This is a Troll Free zone.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile


18286 posts in 3699 days

#50 posted 08-05-2012 09:49 PM

Sure I will not be smitten for editing out His name?

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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