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Yes, one more person seeking help on selecting a table saw...

by Ralph
posted 760 days ago


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51 replies

51 replies so far

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SchottFamily

105 posts in 1120 days


#1 posted 760 days ago

I’m in the same boat. I had my heart set on the G0715P and then I started reading more and more reviews talking about the adjustment issue at different blade heights. It was crushing. lol I’m not ready to buy yet, so I’m still poking around.

-- IZZZZZI BoB IZZZZZI

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BlankMan

1487 posts in 1980 days


#2 posted 760 days ago

Hey Ralph, couple of things. If the line to the garage is 12ga you might be able to increase it to a 20A circuit, if it’s 14ga you’re stuck with 15A. And just an FYI, when I first got my 3HP Unisaw I was curious how much current it drew so I measured it. No load it was in the 3A range, cutting some hardwood like oak it jumped all the way up into the 4, 5A range. :-) I have no idea what I’d have to be cutting for it to draw the 13A the nameplate states. So you might have some leeway.

You might want to consider used too, might get more bang for your buck. I’ve gotten some good old iron that way, made better and sometimes something I might not have bought new because of the price like my 12” Delta RAS. But I like to restore stuff too.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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knotscott

5419 posts in 2003 days


#3 posted 760 days ago

I suspect that your feeble 120v circuit may have contributed to the demise of the motor on the R4512. Running it on 220v may have prevented the “seizure”.

As for the trunnions….they do both look very, very similar, but that doesn’t mean the motors are the same, and just because they look the same doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re identical. The G0715P definitely adds solid cast wings, a steel t-square fence, and a full enclosure….a little nicer, heavier saw with a better fence. AFAIK, the alignment issues have been rectified on the G0715P….interestingly, many of the R4512 and 21833 models had similar alignment problems, which lends more credibility to the rumors that the trunnions are the same.

If you can get 220v 20 amp service, the 3hp G1023RL is a far more substantial saw than any you’ve mentioned, including the Jet hybrid… $1294 shipped. Look at the pics of those trunnions compared to the hybrid or contractor saws.

Here’s an exploded pictorial of the guts of the G0715P:

Here’s a pictorial of the guts of the Cman 21833, which are the same as those on the R4512:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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toolie

1739 posts in 1256 days


#4 posted 759 days ago

stay away from the jet and powermatic brands. those tools are long on promise, short on delivery and pricey, making them really poor values. if you are thinking cabinet, griz 691 would be my choice as it’s innards quite closely resemble older unisaws. you mentioned steel city and the 35950 ( http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/USA2012summer_lowres.pdf ) would be be my choice over any jet TS. anything between 1.5 and 2 hp will do anything you want to do provided it is aligned correctly and has the right blade for the intended operation. be careful about the temptation to always go the “more power” route in tool selection. i have 2 10” emerson electric built (one is 1.5hp and the other is 1hp) CI contractor saws and a 10” ‘72 3hp unisaw. the unisaw is presently on CL and i’ll be keeping the 2 contractor saws as they do what i want to do, including easily ripping 8/4 oak to build a mobile base for the uniaw. and if that wire to your shop is 10G, you can go to 30A which is what i have in my shop(if your wire is 12g, you’re limited to 20A) and i run my unisaw and a 1.5hp dust collector at the same time on the same 20A 220v circuit. contrary to what you may read on this and other forums, properly distributed, a little bit of power can go a long way.

good luck with your search.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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PurpLev

8476 posts in 2276 days


#5 posted 759 days ago

here is the $65 answer – if you know you can have 240v -why stay with the hybrid saws at 1.5hp?

if I had 220, I’d just go with the 3hp saws that have much beefier cabinet mounted trunnion and are just a better build than the lighter hybrids all together at not much more $$$

I would personally look at used unisaws, or the griz 690 if you want to keep expense low.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1008 posts in 913 days


#6 posted 759 days ago

Seems to me your first order of business is getting the electric feed sorted out. What, EXACTLY, do you have running out there for wire? The answer to that is going to shape much of what follows. Your lights are dimming because you are running everything on one circuit, apparently.

I have a Steel City 35990. It’s a hybrid, not a cabinet saw, but it has cabinet mounted trunions, a granite top, and so far, after building all of my kitchen cabinets with it, I’m very happy with it. You’ll probably hear a lot of advice along the lines of, “Oh, you really want a cabinet saw…”, and if you’ve got the bucks, go for it. Just don’t get caught up in thinking that without one, you’re somehow diminished as a woodworker. A good saw will cut the wood you normally cut, and do it well. It should have a decent fence. Doesn’t have to be anything more than the stock fence if the stock fence can be adjusted square and locked into position repeatedly. Ease of use is obviously a factor. Once adjusted, your saw should transition easily from one cut to another. Without a lot of fiddling.

In your situation, if it was me, I’d be looking at spending a few bucks to get the electric squared away, spend around $700 on a saw instead of 11 or 12 hundred. I’d class myself as a serious hobby woodworker. I don’t build cabinets for sale to others (normally). I’m not a commercial shop. But as soon as I had a good table saw, I wanted my dust collector hooked up. And as soon as I started needing larger quantities of wood (kitchen cabinets) I quickly discovered how much cheaper it was to buy rough cut and get a decent planer. I only had a 60amp sub panel installed. My lights don’t dim when I start my saw or dust collector or planer.

I wish you happiness, but also see you putting the cart before the horse if you get another saw without first knowing exactly what you’re dealing with electrically.

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#7 posted 759 days ago

BlankMan-
The line is 14gauge, actually that is what I was checking when I found the unused fourth (red) wire. Your comment about the actual motor draw is very, very, interesting; 240V@5A is just over 1.5HP of input power. That’s a lot of power! Good point, I’ll keep that in mind. BTW, were you using a thin kerf blade? As far as used saws, I have been checking Craig’s list, and either the saws are huge, or very pricey; like a few hundred shy of a new saw.

knotscott-
I don’t know… both trunnions look very similar… but then they are designed to do the same thing, so some similarity is to be expected. I’ll keep the 1023 in mind, especially in light of the measurements made by BlankMan.

Toolie-
My wallet does not stretch as far as a Powermatic, so there is no worry there. Thanks for the link to Steel City. One advantage of SC is that Lowes sells it- at least they are listed as a supplier, and CS saws show up on Lowe’s computer. Interesting point you make about required motor power vs. saw alignment. The new thin kerf saws require less power, and its cheaper to get a good blade than to get more HP in the saw. Again, BlankMans’ current measurements are very interesting.

PurpLev-
The unisaws I found – although I’d love to own an American made saw- were upwards of $2-2.5k, totally more than I want to spend. The grizzly is a possibility, but maxes out my wallet. That’s the whole issue, finding a saw within my budget.

Charlie-
Sorry if it wasn’t clear: I will have 240V@15A service going to the garage. I hear you about the saw and the woodworker. For some reason I equate “machine accuracy” with “cabinet saw”. You can tune up a saw up to a point and then it is out of your hands. In my former life I built kitchen cabinets with a Craftsman radial arm saw. The cabinets were European style, which made them simple to build. I also built the Corian counter tops. The radial arm saw was so bad that I used to spend a couple of hours adjusting the saw, and a couple of hours cutting wood. I don’t want to repeat that experience. By the way, that saw was originally wired for 120V; it used to bog down and then pop the breaker. I rewired the motor for 240V and the saw never bogged down again. I suspect the voltage at the motor terminals didn’t droop as much. Charlie, for me, a 60A service would be like going to heaven, actually even a 30A service would make me a very happy man, but alas, only a 15A service is in my future! Thanks for the good word on the Steel City saw.

ALL-
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO RESPOND.

It is great to communicate with more experienced woodworkers.

... and so the search continues. I’ll keep you posted…

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

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cutworm

1064 posts in 1420 days


#8 posted 759 days ago

I’d go ahead and run a new circuit to your shop before buying anything. Run 240 60 amp service to the shop and install a breaker box in the shop. It it is more than 50’ to your shop go up 1 size in wiring. I’d go with #4 or #2 copper depending on the distance of your run. Measure the voltage with things off and things running. Voltage shouldn’t drop any more than 5% or so. If it does you need bigger wiring. With 14 AWG it’s a no brainer. Replace it.

-- Steve - "Never Give Up"

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ScottStewart

108 posts in 759 days


#9 posted 759 days ago

I was where you are at about 3 years ago. I am a garage guy, and anytime I would attempt a rip cut with my Craftsman contractor’s saw I would pop the breaker. It was stupidly frustrating and money was really tight.

The smartest thing I did was to get a sub panel put in the garage so I have all the power I want. (I did 95% of the work, had an electrician friend do the aluminum connections with the SER). I had to pass the test for the county so I could do the work. It was a lot of work, but we got there. Even with 15A@240V, that’s not a lot of juice to run both a table saw and a dust collector. Unless you don’t intend to be in your location very long, the best thing is to get the electrical to your shop figured out first. I justified it mentally by just calling it another of the big 5/6 power tools that I wanted.

I also think the Grizzly 1023 line looks like a lot of saw for the money. For a long time, that was the saw I thought I would grow old with. For the type of budget you are describing, it looks like the right way to go.

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NiteWalker

2709 posts in 1204 days


#10 posted 759 days ago

With 220, skip all the in-betweens and get a nice 3HP cabinet saw. Make sure the trunions are cabinet mounted. Steel city would be my first choice followed by grizzly.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View BlankMan's profile

BlankMan

1487 posts in 1980 days


#11 posted 759 days ago

Ralph, full kerf, that’s all I use.

And that’s pretty common for motors not under load. The more it has to work the more power it draws, when not cutting all it has to do is overcome frictional losses.

240V @5A is just over 1.25HP for a 80% efficient motor, no motor is 100% efficient. So @3A it’s using ~3/4HP just to idle.

Cyclones and dust collectors are the exception, they’re always under full load when running so they’re always drawing nameplate FLA. So keep that in mind when sizing things and it probably be best if you run it at 240V also because of that so it’s not pulling its FLA on one 120V leg.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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Grandpa

3078 posts in 1303 days


#12 posted 759 days ago

Ralph, I decided there were tools I wanted in my shop and I made provisions for those from the beginning. I installed a 100 amp panel with the spaces for my tools. I would recommend doing that from the begining. I planned for the maximum size tools I might want and installed those circuits as needed. I had the spaces designated.
I have gotten by with a cheaper Sears table saw for 30+ years. I have always felt that learning to use the tool and doing the best is important. If you have a better saw you can’t get sloppy. I had given up on ever owning a “better saw” because they don’t show up for sale in my part of the country. I went to an auction about a month ago and I bought a 5hp Delta Unisaw for $180. It is a 3 phase but I feel I can overcome that little deal. Even if I decide to replace the motor I got a good deal on the saw. Don’t give up on owning a big name expensive saw.

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toolie

1739 posts in 1256 days


#13 posted 759 days ago

ralph….check your private messages.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

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dnick

910 posts in 1009 days


#14 posted 759 days ago

I got that craftsman. I was hesitant about the granite top, but after 9 months , I love it. Lot of good features, does everything I ask, it was an upgrade, I have nothing to compare it to, but I use this saw a lot & I am really happy with it. I am getting old, not having to clean that cast iron top is saving a lot of wear & tear on my bad elbow.

-- dnick, North Hollywood, Ca.

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knotscott

5419 posts in 2003 days


#15 posted 759 days ago

The jump from an R4512 to a G0715P (or any other hybrid) gets you pretty similar guts, power, and duty rating. The jump to a 3hp cabinet saw, not only gives you substantially more power, but much more substantial mechanisms under the hood, and usually a better fence….also, ~ 300# vs ~ 540#. I’m reititerating a little on my earlier statement, but I wanted to emphasize what a large step it really is. You don’t need a 3hp cabinet saw to do good work, but they are a lot more saw if you can swing it. When the budget approaches $1300, and 220v is available, IMHO it’s just good sense to at least give that class of saw some thought.

This pic is of the guts of the former Griz G0478 hybrid saw (all I have available as a comparison), which is reasonably similar to the R4512/G0715P, 21833, Jet Proshop, etc.:

Compared to the pic of the new G1023RL:

or the former G1023SL or older Unisaw should you buy a used one:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View BlankMan's profile

BlankMan

1487 posts in 1980 days


#16 posted 759 days ago

I have to agree with Scott regarding the consideration of a 3HP cabinet saw. Not so much needing 3HP but what you get with a saw of that caliber. As Scott says, what’s under the hood.

My first TS was a Ryobi BT3000, being new to serious woodworking at the time I got caught up in the hype, in a word that saw sucked. Repeatability was poor, fence was flimsy and wouldn’t lock parallel without coaxing, overall the whole thing was not a solid saw.

So I decided to get a real saw, in the $800 range and this was back in the mid to late 90’s.I was looking at Jet and General and either one would be good. A buddy had told me a while before that that his dream saw was Unisaw, but I couldn’t afford one.

After carefully shopping this time, knowing what to look for and not getting caught in the hype something dawned on me. I had $1000 into the Ryobi after buying all it’s accessories, and I thought, what if I spend $800 on a new saw and am not satisfied with it? Then I’ll have spent $1800 on the two saws and be looking for a third? I went and bought a Unisaw and believe me had to scrape.

After 15+ years, best thing I ever did, buying that Unisaw. All the saw I need and it will never be replaced.

I’m not advocating buying a Unisaw, I’m not sold on the new redesign, if I were to do it now I’d look for a Unisaw of the old design like the one I have. But I am advocating buying a good, solid table saw, one that you might think is more then you need at the moment. IMO everything pretty much revolves around the table saw, and to have one that is solid, accurate, repeatable, holds alignment, makes everything else just so much easier.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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RogerM

445 posts in 1026 days


#17 posted 759 days ago

I second the Delta Unisaw. Hard to beat a real good solid, accurate, reliable Unisaw. Money well spent. Buy it and use it.

-- Roger M, Aiken, SC

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#18 posted 758 days ago

Well, I know that upgrading to 50 or more amps is a great thing to do, but it is just not viable in my situation. Before doing that, I’d upgrade the house service from 100 to 200 amps.

I found a Rockwell Delta vintage 1972 with many upgrades (bearings, belt, arbor, etc). The cast iron table and extensions look in pretty good condition- some body rust but that is just cosmetic. Asking $775.
I also found a Steel City 10” Granite Cabinet Saw – Model 35920 – Fence, riving knives, etc. Looks clean- asking $525.
Any thoughts?

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

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Alexandre

1417 posts in 818 days


#19 posted 758 days ago

Ralph, for the $1000, I would get a SawStop contractors..

-- My terrible signature...

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Charlie

1008 posts in 913 days


#20 posted 758 days ago

I believe the SC 35920 does not have t-slot miter slots. I think they’re just 3/4 by 3/8 grooves. For that reason alone, I’d pass on that one.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5419 posts in 2003 days


#21 posted 758 days ago

Alexandre – I didn’t think you could even touch a Saw Stop for much under $2k out the door…..which one do you have in mind?

The SC35920 is a granite top saw. It’s got the same guts, top, and fence as the former Ridgid R4511…both well regarded, and had cabinet mounted trunnions for easier alignment. Both have a functional, but modest fence IMO. Very similar to the Cman 22116, but the 22116 has a better fence. The 22116 and 35920 also have a full enclosure for better DC.

Any pics of the Rockwell? Sounds really steep unless it’s a 550# Unisaw.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#22 posted 758 days ago

Alexandre- Any one in particular? I also thought Saw Stop saws were in the $2k and up range.
Charlie- I sent an email to SC about the style of the miter slot. I’ll let you know what comes back.
knotscot- It is a Unisaw. Here are a couple of pics.

Some rust on the body- just cosmetic.

Table top look clean.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

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knotscott

5419 posts in 2003 days


#23 posted 758 days ago

No question, I’d go with the Uni, but would offer less…..maybe $650-$700 for one in that condition with the jetlock fence if it’s 3hp single phase…..less $ if less hp.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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toolie

1739 posts in 1256 days


#24 posted 758 days ago

knotscott…....what is a 550# unisaw?

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1008 posts in 913 days


#25 posted 758 days ago

Ralph,

Just another consideration here…
When I was shopping for a new table saw, there was precious little available on Craigslist. I looked at a few that were similar in level to that unisaw. None were in that good of condition though. One of the things that kept creeping in to my decision process was that while some of the older saws are wonderful pieces of machinery, built to last, powerful, and probably a bit more saw than I needed (again, I class myself as a serious hobby woodworker, not a pro), NONE of them had any of the safety features of the newer saws. Most notably, a riving knife. Sure they can be added to some, but at what expense, and how good is the add-on? And how easy is it to do blade changes, etc with the add-on?

Eventually, my need for the saw to start a major project meant I simply had to buy a saw. Ran out of time to shop for a deal on Craigslist. I opted for a new saw and the safety features played no small part in that decision. I opted to lower my risk in the shop because I’m also an artist and wanted to make sure I could still paint, sculpt and carve with all my digits intact.

If I had come across a unisaw in the condition of the one you are looking at, I might have gone with it. But that safety thing….. it’s hard to explain. I initially purchased a Rigid R4512, but it had a defect in the blade height mechanism that could not be resolved. So I returned it and continued looking. Found the Steel City 35990 granite top. I got it locally for $649. Was initially concerned about the granite, really wanted the cast iron, but the granite was in stock, the cast iron was not, and I was up against a wall and needing a saw.

Once I figured out the secret to adjusting the wing-seam-in-the-miter-slot thing, the saw went from “a darn nice saw” to “holy cow, this is awesome!”.

You’re shopping for a saw. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO CUT? I’m cutting 3/4 ply and other sheet goods for cabinets. Ripping 3/4 inch hard maple for face frames. Last night I cut Corian. A few weeks ago I was straight-lining (ripping) and cutting 6/4 walnut for a counter top. The saw performed beautifully on all of those. This is on 110 volts.

This is not an ad for Steel City. There are other decent saws out there. I’m just stressing that you might want to look at what you’ll be doing with the saw. By all means, if a quarter ton vintage machine is your dream, go for it. Just don’t get caught up in the excitement and buy something that isn’t really practical for the work you’ll do.

Shop smart, and whatever you decide, please be safe. :)

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#26 posted 758 days ago

Charlie,
Yes, it s very easy to get caught up with bigger and better. Mostly I’ll be cutting ¾” ply, 1x’s 2x’s, that kind of stuff. Maybe in the future there will be a need to cut thicker stuff, who knows.
The importance of the riving knife I suppose is to keep the kerf open and keep the stock aligned to the blade. I am far from being an artist, but I still like, and want to keep, all my digits intact.

It is interesting that you also had problems with the Ridgid R4512 saw.

Not much experience, but 1.75HP at the motor shaft seems like a lot of power. I used to have an old Craftsman table saw, I think it had a 1HP motor, and that served me pretty well. CI table with webbed CI extensions. Sold it for $80, including a daddo set. I now see the same saw on Craigs list listed for $450! NUTS!

What a head ache from all the possibilities; but I guess it has to be before the dust settles (no pun intended)!

Ralph.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1008 posts in 913 days


#27 posted 758 days ago

Ralph,
I should also admit here that there’s no way to drive back to my shop. Everything has to be carried or carted back there. My son and I got the Rigid back there by loading it on a rolling scaffold and wheeling it (with only minor difficulty) over frozen ground. By the time I figured out the problem, the ground had thawed (mud) and it had to be CARRIED back out to my van.
To get the SC back there, I unboxed it after I slid it down a couple of 2×10s, carried each piece of granite back to the shop and anything else that wasn’t part of the main body of the saw, then borrowed a 2-wheeler and my wife and I wrangled it back to the shop.

So a 500 pound plus machine, would probably pose some issues in terms of just getting it back there. I’d have to dismantle it into pieces we can move (I’m 60 years old and in no hurry to hurt myself).

If your experience is anything like mine in terms of getting a saw…. I bought the best I could afford, but money was tight. So $649 was about the limit. I very quickly learned that a few other items would make HAVING this saw a truly money saving situation. Most notably the planer. I also hooked up my dust collector and got a trash can separator for it. If I had gone overboard on the saw…. even by just 2 or 3 hundred bucks, I wouldn’t have been able to get the planer and the PLANER made it possible for me to have walnut counter tops.

One thing leads to another. I am certain that once you get into this, you’ll want more. Better tools don’t make you a better woodwork, necessarily, but they DO make it easier, safer and faster to do the things you may have struggled with when using lesser equipment. I think nothing of changing blades now, and I know that if I move my fence, it will be square when I lock it down. My old saw, a “portable” home owner type saw was an absolute nightmare to change the blade, had NO capability for a zero clearance insert, had an absolutely useless fence, etc.

My new saw may not be a Unisaw, and even though it cost much less than some of my next-level-up choices, it’s still a great addition to my shop and didn’t break the bank.

Buy what makes you HAPPY and what you can comfortably manage and work with (both physically and financially) and you will be rewarded. :)

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#28 posted 758 days ago

Charlie,

Yes, I am concerned about a 500# saw. The Ridgid was about 265# and that was plenty heavy. I never did the “nickle” test, but I think it would have passed.

Looking around this site, and generally in the WEB, I am in awe of the beautiful things some people build with just a contractor’s saw, or even a small table mounted (portable?) table saw.

When buying a new saw, you get the advantage of a warranty, customer service, and parts availability.

BTW, I previously said that 1.75HP sounds like a lot of power, so I made some calculations. At 4000rpm, 5 inches from the center of the motor shaft, 1.75HP produces about 5.5# of force. Now that sounds puny!

Ralph-

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View BlankMan's profile

BlankMan

1487 posts in 1980 days


#29 posted 757 days ago

Ralph, take the wings off, take the motor out, strap it to an appliance dolly, just like moving a frig. That’s what I had to do to get it down in my basement. And coming in the back door I have a 90 degree right then right away a 90 degree left and I’m going down the stairs… And I’m talking 2 feet from the edge of the outside door opening to the start of the stairs and the edge of basement door opening is on the same wall as the outside door is…

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#30 posted 757 days ago

I finally got off the fence-

I looked at all options given, the SC 35950 (toolie provided the link) looked like a very nice cabinet mounted trunnion choice, reasonably priced, low current requirements. But I shied away because I could not find reviews on the saw; and being a new saw, like anything new, will have some bugs.

All saws I looked at had mixed review. I suppose it is the luck of the draw and how critical your requirements are.

So I think I’ll go for my original choice: the Grizzly G0715P. It also had mixed reviews, but mostly all positive. The low ratings I saw were given well over a year ago and I read the issues were corrected.

Thanks to all for your help with my saw selection.

I’ll keep you posted.

Ralph.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View toolie's profile

toolie

1739 posts in 1256 days


#31 posted 757 days ago

ralph…..did you notice the SC 35926 in that sales brochure i linked? it’s going for $849 and i believe it is available through home depot online. delivery to the store is free. i only mention it because that saw is probably made by the same company that made the ridgid 4511. the 4511, except for a factory recall of an arbor problem, pretty much got great reviews. and unlike the 0715P, which has table mounted trunions, the 35926 has cabinet mounted trunions (the table is moved to align the blade to the miter slot). and it has a built in mobile base and carries a 5 year warranty. with the 715, you have to provide a mobile base and it has a 1 year warranty. purchased through hd, the 35926 would also qualify for deferred billing (6 mos., 12 mos., whatever they’re offering now).

here’s the OM for the 35926:

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/0b/0bec2e2b-5712-4186-9ed1-8a29e4d2a61a.pdf

just looks like the 35926 might provide a little more in terms of benefits at the same price as the 715p, especially the warranty. hope i’m not butting my nose in where it doesn’t belong. just trying to help maximize the outcome of an important decision.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#32 posted 756 days ago

toolie,
No problem, all suggestions are welcomed!
I knew Lowes sold SC, butI didn’t know HD sold SC. When I google the model number I get two stores: HD for $1075 and Toolking for $900, but when you go into the Toolking site, it lists for $1232 ???

Can you send me a link to the $849?
Have you seen any reviews?

Thanks,
Ralph.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View toolie's profile

toolie

1739 posts in 1256 days


#33 posted 756 days ago

ralph,

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/USA2012summer_lowres.pdf

but i’m afraid it doesn’t matter. i just noticed those sale prices were only valid thru 6/30/12.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#34 posted 756 days ago

toolie,
I noticed that when I followed your last SC link.
For that saw the price increase was $100.
A five year warranty is five times better than one year warranty!
Ralph.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View CyberDyneSystems's profile

CyberDyneSystems

106 posts in 816 days


#35 posted 755 days ago

My views on this are not always popular, but I’m a bargain hunter and do it yourself kind of guy, so here it is.

Look for a decent used Unisaw or PM 66.

With a little elbow grease (or sometimes no work at all) you can get one these days for about $400.00 or less.

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#36 posted 755 days ago

Either the Unisaw or PM 66, used or otherwise, would be great. My concern is available power for a 3 HP motor. The measurements BlankMan took on his 3 HP saw imply that the nameplate ratings (for load current) may be worst case. 3 HP on 240V, 75% efficiency, would draw 12 A, and I only have 15 amps available. But then, I will be mostly cutting 3/4” ply, and at most 8/4 stock. Neither of which will, IMO, require 3 HP. So then, why not a new (I like new- safety & service) 1-3/4 or 2 HP saw? What I have not mentioned- my shop is in a small one car garage.

I just red some negative reviews on grizzly service, and positive reviews on Steel City.

Man, this decision is tough, it is driving me to drink….
Ralph.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View toolie's profile

toolie

1739 posts in 1256 days


#37 posted 755 days ago

ralph….hadn’t you had decided on the 715P? FYI, a splitter is available for most older unisaws for $50, it doesn’t raise/lower or tilt like a true riving knife, but it does have anti kick back pawls and does prevent the blade kerf from closing on the back side of the spinning blade.

it pops in and out and once aligned, the alignment is not disturbed by removal/reinstallation.

a blade guard doesn’t attach to it, but the sawcenter sells a complete splitter/blade guard assembly for ~ $155 (overkill, IMHO).

http://www.sawcenter.com/unisawparts.htm

just trying to help make a tough decision even arder.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#38 posted 755 days ago

toolie- Thanks for your input.

You are not kidding tough decision, too many variables, too many unknowns!

You are right, the Grizzly 715p was my decision. I found a blog here on LJs with pretty bad reviews on Grizzly service. The responses were mixed, some surprised, some agreed.

Your links, and Charlie’s comments, steered me in the SC direction.

A search of SC’s customer service performance, on this and on other sites, showed positive results. I know that like in the stock market, past performance is no indication of future performance. But still, good past performance gives me a warm feeling.

Ralph.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View CyberDyneSystems's profile

CyberDyneSystems

106 posts in 816 days


#39 posted 754 days ago

“So then, why not a new (I like new- safety & service) 1-3/4 or 2 HP saw? What I have not mentioned- my shop is in a small one car garage.”

The older (circa 1940’s) Unisaws had a 1 HP Repulsion/Induction motor that can be wired 110v or 220v.

This is what I have in my basement. Mine is wired for standard 110v, and let me tell you, that old work horse “Bullet motor” is a ballsy 1HP!

Compared to today’s motors it is “near as makes no difference” as powerful as the 3HP 220v 1991 Unisaw we have at work.

I got mine in near perfect working condition for $350.00 on the big auction site.
All I had to do was find four bolts to re-attach the top to have a working saw. (approx $5.00)

To make it even better, I replaced the useable but a little tired wiring and plug, and replaced the old Jetlock fence with a 52” Beisemeyer I also found used.

So a working excellent saw for $355.00, better than most new saws made today,
and with upgrades still under $500.00 for a dream saw I will never want or need to replace.

Modern Uniguard, right hand side

Older Uniguard, left hand side,

Note, many of the parts fro each of the Uniguards are interchangeable.

Splitter with guard;

and without as seen above.

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#40 posted 754 days ago

OK, so you agree, a 1-3/4 to 2 HP motor should suffice.

$350 for your saw is a great find. The saws on CL around here are expensive- for instance two PMs for $2000 each, another for $1900; an old Rockwell (no fence) for $700, a UNI with rusted top for $1200. The best deal so far is a refurbished Rockwell/Delta asking $775 obo- but 3HP motor. In the $300-500 price range you get an old tired contractors saw.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

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CyberDyneSystems

106 posts in 816 days


#41 posted 744 days ago

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/40460

In NY,.
I’ve seen cheaper in NY, NJ and Connecticut (that’s where I got mine) on E-bay and CL

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#42 posted 744 days ago

I thought so too.
I am presently leaning towards a G0715P, but until I finally buy, I keep looking on CL. I have expanded my search outside LI. I have a little time before I have to buy.
Right now I am rebuilding the garage doors. They are the old fashion swing out type. Very, very heavy; four feet wide by at least seven feet high. Rails and stiles are just shy of two inches thick. I finished re-assembling and mounting one door, and tomorrow, weather permitting, will start on the second.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#43 posted 730 days ago

Hello again,
I have been searching CL and seeing this add for a PM66 for a bout a month now. The saw looks in good shape, but the price is in the stratosphere, $2000. Here are some posted pictures (sorry for the postage stamp sized photos):

I have not seen the saw, and I can only assume that the pictures accurately represent the saw as it is today.

The $2000 price seems high to me since you can purchase a new PM for about one more grand- free shipping, with a 5 year warranty.

The question is, what do you think is a fair price for this saw?

Thanks,
Ralph

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5419 posts in 2003 days


#44 posted 730 days ago

$2k for a used PM66 is pretty steep. $1500 in mint would be at about the top of what I’d expect someone to pay, and even that isn’t a steel. A new Grizzly G1023RL is < $1300 shipped….perhaps not quite in the same league as a PM66, but a fine saw for most of us, and quite a bit more substantial than the G0715P.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View b2rtch's profile

b2rtch

4310 posts in 1676 days


#45 posted 730 days ago

I bought a used but in excellent condition Unisaw for $400.00

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/37781

http://lumberjocks.com/b2rtch/blog/29941

My rule is that I never pay more than 50% of the price for new, even if the tool is still in the box.

My advice, be patient , keep looking , the right saw for you will come.
When you see it ,buy right away if not some one else will buy it.

-- Bert

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1447 posts in 1142 days


#46 posted 730 days ago

Ralph: It’s a shame you had problems with your R4512, I have one and it’s great, no problems whatsoever. I too looked at the Grizzly G0715P, but in all honesty, I didn’t think it was worth the $894 it’s gonna cost you to get it to your house. I have two Grizzly machines, a G0453PX Spiralhead Planer, and a G0513X2BF 17” bandsaw, and I bought them for value vs. price. The sprialhead planer, the first motor lasted 40 seconds, (I think just a capacitor failed), and Grizzly was more than happy to ship me a new motor, which I HAD TO HOG INTO THE BOTTOM OF THE PLANER and wire it up. I was 62 at the time and I have a number of bad discs, arthritis, etc, and that was not a nice evening. The only good news on that, if it is only capacitors, I got an extra 2HP Chinese motor in a crate in storage in my basement. I never really checked it out, but I did read out the windings, and they read good, not grounded, so I think caps.
The bandsaw, the instructions, AND the instructions that were available to the service tech both told me that they had shipped the wrong table with my saw. Turns out I made it work after thinking about it for a while. Turns out they changed the table on that saw right when my shipped. I got the new style table and saw with the old style instructions. The Grizzly people were again willing to ship me the old style table, and the service tech spent almost an hour on the phone with me to make sure we had all the right numbers. Over four weeks after I got it all figured out and forgot about it, (thought they had too, to be honest), in the UPS truck comes with two big boxes with another table, the new one, just like the one that came with my saw, with all the OLD numbers on the boxes. Go figure. So those parts now sit with the bad motor in the storage area in the basement…
So Grizzly is no better than any other company, and you could get a lemon just like you can with any other company.
Since no one is perfect, and the old stuff is maybe lacking new developments in safety and warranty, I would look STRICTLY at value vs. price. That’s why I eventually went with the Rigid R4512, and I like it.
By the way, after buying the planer and the bandsaw, I decided that the Rigid R4512 was a much better value with the lifetime service waranty than any Grizzly, and to be honest, I was sick of honking extra steel around to make things run.
Good luck!!

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

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b2rtch

4310 posts in 1676 days


#47 posted 730 days ago

I used to have Ridgid R4511 (GRANITE TABLE) , this was an excellent saw.

-- Bert

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#48 posted 729 days ago

Tennessee- I know- it seems to be the luck of the draw. On just about any item you can read rave reviews, and terrible reviews as well ! Although reviews are great, it is the mix that makes it difficult to choose an item based on reading reviews.

knotscott- I just wrote a response to the CL posting. I’ll start at $1k. If he doesn’t go ballistic, then maybe I’ll have a chance.

b2rtch- If it doesn’t work out, I’ll keep looking.

Thanks for the replies,
Ralph.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View crank49's profile

crank49

3371 posts in 1598 days


#49 posted 729 days ago

You know that the reason the motor “seized” on your 4512 is probably due to running it under voltage.
You should really love the return policy at HD because they ate a problem that was not their fault.

Don’t think that a more expensive, better saw will solve the problem. Low voltage will fry a new saw as well.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 760 days


#50 posted 729 days ago

The reason for the motor seizing was not under voltage !
The problem was mechanical, not electrical !
Most probably a bearing seized.
Under voltage will cause the motor current to go up, causing burning of the windings. Possible results are:
- smoke from overheating the windings, there was none,
- an open winding due to overheating,
- a blown capacitor, open or shorted; causing stall at power up (zero torque)
In all these cases the motor would be free to spin. If the stating circuit opened up, all it would require was just to spin the blade to get the motor to run (in either direction).
In my case, most probably a bearing seized, a mechanical, not electrical problem.
So it was low voltage !

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

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