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by CL810
posted 07-23-2012 01:14 AM


47 replies so far

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Dan'um Style

13068 posts in 2670 days


#1 posted 07-23-2012 01:36 AM

Hey CL810

check out this link ,,, might be what you are looking for … let us know

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/39989

-- keeping myself entertained ... Humor and fun lubricate the brain

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CL810

2111 posts in 1676 days


#2 posted 07-23-2012 01:06 PM

Close. It just hides forum topics that start with “Off Topic Content.” My suggestion would allow us to click which forums would show. I would like to be able to select which forums are displayed. Right now you can only show all or one forum.

-- "It's amazing how much can go wrong when you think you know what you're doing."

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Mainiac Matt

4160 posts in 1016 days


#3 posted 07-23-2012 01:38 PM

every site administrator has to decide how to deal with trolls and such… as well as how to fund their sight…

I don’t think there’s really a “tech” solution, as trolls seem to thrive on pouring their energy to thwart such.

The best boards I’ve participated in deal with trolls the hard way, by recruiting a large team of volunteer moderators, who are tasked with monitoring certain sections of the site and are empowerd with admin. functions of deleting posts, banning users, etc…

This requires a very active community…. who are willing to put hundreds of hours per week into moderating the site.

The only down side to this approach is that the moderator team has to establish their guidelines … and those lines will inevitably impede the “free speech” of some members.

Based on my (admittedly limited) experience, LJs is a very lightly moderated site…... and it shows.

Unfortunately, trolls generate traffic and traffic stats make web sites attractive to advertisors…. and that makes the sites profitable. So unless the site is set up with not-for-profit and altruistic motives (and like minded revenue sources) they all seem to be eaten alive by trolls eventually.

OBTW, the best way to kill a troll is to starve it…

“don’t feed the trolls” is a fun motto that seems to drive them insane.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

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b2rtch

4341 posts in 1736 days


#4 posted 07-23-2012 01:41 PM

Interesting that right now there are four different posts “complaining ” about the same thing.
It seems to me that this should say something to the manager of this site , if he only cares.

-- Bert

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MonteCristo

2097 posts in 876 days


#5 posted 07-23-2012 09:08 PM

I wouldn’t mind seeing the Off-Topic stuff separated out but I hardly think it’s a big deal. I almost never look at them and figure if that’s their bag and they stick to putting it in the right place, I can just scroll on by.

I have found LJs to be a much better forum than those where the Moderators can act like little Gods. I am yet to see anything outside of the Off-Topic stuff that looks like it should not have been allowed so I would say LJs is working pretty well.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

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MsDebbieP

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#6 posted 07-28-2012 11:19 AM

At this time, you can click on the list of forums (“Show All Forums”) and just visit the ones that you are interested in.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (https://www.facebook.com/DebbiePribeleENJOConsultant)

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ronbuhg

121 posts in 836 days


#7 posted 07-29-2012 02:19 PM

since Im a newbie, I hestitate to say something, but…...I DID NOT join LJ’s to read the comments about anything that does not pertain to wood, wood working,wood supplies,etc,etc….get my drift ? I dont appreciate hearing anti-american comments,such as the ones posted by”you—know-who”...everyone knows who Im talking about….It will not bother me if he is asked to leave anytime soon…if you dont love this wonderful country ,then my suggestion is simply LEAVE OR SHUT UP !!! I have a nephew (Marine Corps) who has put his life in danger overseas ..he has served over there for three tours and he is currently serving another 4 years in the States. God Bless Him ! He is not doing this just for me and my family, he is also doing this for you and yours !! Think about all of those men and women who serve this country for us and to protect our way of life ! Shame on you for your hateful comments….I realize that I can choose what I want to read but it flat out pisses me off that this person is allowed to spew his Anti- American “blankity-blank” onto us…...ENOUGH !! and THAT’S how I feel about it !!!

-- the dumbest question is the one you dont ask !!

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jumbojack

1199 posts in 1312 days


#8 posted 07-29-2012 02:32 PM

There is just too much good stuff on this site to be concerned with the little bits of trash that show up. It is like viewing the Grand Canyon and only focusing on the gum wrapper carelessly tossed to the ground. The ugly parts of LJs is easily avoided.

-- Made in America, with American made tools....Shopsmith

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Kookaburra

748 posts in 912 days


#9 posted 07-29-2012 02:38 PM

With all due respect ronbuhg, that is your opinion. You are entitled to it and entitled to express it. What your nephew, and my father (career Navy pilot) and my brother and my cousin (career and currently serving Special Forces) and my uncle and my grandfather all fought for was the freedoms listed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the Untied State. One of these freedoms is, as I am sure you remember, Freedom of Speech.

That means the ability to express your opinions without fear of interference, impediment or punishment. It does not mean the freedom to hurt other people by slander or libel. It does not mean the right to expect other people to believe the things you do, no matter how fervently you believe them. That right is granted to you and to those who disagree with every word you say. It is granted to everyone who believes the government is on the wrong track and the US is headed for disaster. If free speech had been suppressed since the 18th century, we would still be a bunch of English Colonies and wearing silly hats to public events.

That said, LumberJocks does not fall under any of that for several reasons. Foremost, it is a private enterprize the owners or managers have the right to allow any legal speech they choose. You do have the right to avoid any or all of the postings here. I do not read any of the off-topic posts except by mistake. If you are not aware of how to hide the off topic subject on the pulse page, please read the link in the first reply.

As some Frenchman once said:
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

-- Kay - Just a girl who loves wood.

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KnickKnack

990 posts in 2254 days


#10 posted 07-29-2012 02:56 PM

As some Frenchman once said: I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

Usually attributed to Voltaire (a very famous frenchman), but in fact the words of Evelyn Beatrice Hall, who was English.

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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Kookaburra

748 posts in 912 days


#11 posted 07-29-2012 03:21 PM

Ah, one-upped by KnickKnack. I think I can live with that! :) And yes, I was referring to Voltaire – he said so many wise things. He should stop claiming credit for someone else’s quote!

-- Kay - Just a girl who loves wood.

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KnickKnack

990 posts in 2254 days


#12 posted 07-29-2012 04:51 PM

He should stop claiming credit for someone else’s quote!

Comment about “typical French” deleted :-)

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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ITnerd

261 posts in 1287 days


#13 posted 07-29-2012 06:25 PM

CL810, I posted a request that is similar to what you are asking for here. I hope the administrators find a way to achieve this, I like scanning the default forums page (when you first click the forums button) to see recent posts across all forums, but its a bit of a pain when 1/2 of the recent posts are off topic.

This allows the best of both worlds, those who find the NST a big part of thier LJ experience can keep it, and those who don’t will be able to focus on the woodworking related posts.

I recognize this would result in a less mouse-clicks from users having to sort through multiple forum post pages, but I think its a good step towards creating a healthy, happy community without resorting to excessive moderation. In the long run, I think it would keep more users in the forums. Net, +1 to CL810s request.

Debbie, thanks for weighing in here; is there any thought of adding this functionality in the future? Are there downsides I’m not aware of, besides of the impact to mouse clicks I mention above?

-- Chris @ Atlanta - JGM - Occam's razor tells us that when you hear hoofs, think horses not zebras.

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derosa

1556 posts in 1523 days


#14 posted 07-29-2012 07:26 PM

Ronbuhg- I will chime in that I’ve never understood the love it or leave it attitude when there is a disagreement; I’m more of the “work for change or shut up” attitude. It’s perfectly fine to hate a many great things about this nation but if you’re gonna whine about them you should work to change them and make it the country it should be.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

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MsDebbieP

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#15 posted 07-29-2012 08:07 PM

We have tried and implemented a variety of methods for accessing the different components of the site.
People use the site in so many ways – what works for some, doesn’t for others.
I am not aware of any plans on changing toolbars etc.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (https://www.facebook.com/DebbiePribeleENJOConsultant)

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derosa

1556 posts in 1523 days


#16 posted 07-29-2012 08:16 PM

How about one or two OT only forum mods to deal with the mudslingers. I’m of the opinion that not much needs to change there except the short term suspension of members who devolve into name calling and open attacks and threats. A couple of level headed volunteers could keep that down which would help change the overall tone.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

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DKV

3187 posts in 1192 days


#17 posted 07-29-2012 08:20 PM

What baffles me (and that’s hard to do) is the total lack of control displayed by LJers. It takes some effort to actually read the nonshop topics which tells me that you want to read the nonshop topics and you enjoy the pain and suffering that comes with it. They have a name for those type of people. I personally enjoy nonshop talk and I am not a troll. I am a person that enjoys to select only those areas of the site that interest me. I have self control and will power. And, I also have faith that the way I think is the right way. Get on board guys.

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

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ITnerd

261 posts in 1287 days


#18 posted 07-29-2012 09:45 PM

DKV, my initial request, and I think that of CL810, was to filter NST posts from the main forum page, by user choice – a manual opt-out. Scrubbing the titles was a good start. The next step to me would be to screen them entirely, which is more of a convienence than anything else.

I feel like this would be the best of both worlds; those who find NST topics an enjoyable part of thier LJ experience could continue to see them (titles and all) and those who don’t wouldn’t have to waste time scanning past a list of ‘Off topic content. Click to see the post’ headers.

I’m not quite sure I’ve seen a solid response on why this would be a bad thing, from either mananagement or other LJ’s, so I can only continue to ask for this feature and share my thoughts when the topic comes back around.

-- Chris @ Atlanta - JGM - Occam's razor tells us that when you hear hoofs, think horses not zebras.

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DKV

3187 posts in 1192 days


#19 posted 07-29-2012 10:26 PM

Chris, very good response. So often when disagreements happen the hostility and name calling start. I hope we both come out of this with what we want.

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

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cutworm

1065 posts in 1481 days


#20 posted 07-30-2012 02:26 AM

It seems to be growing too. I kinda think the best place for off topic comments is Facebook. I’m just sayin…..

-- Steve - "Never Give Up"

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RobWoodCutter

111 posts in 1917 days


#21 posted 07-30-2012 02:52 AM

What baffles me (and that’s hard to do) is the total lack of control displayed by LJers. It takes some effort to actually post an off topic (politics/religion) post in the nonshop topics which tells me that you want to post in the nonshop topics and you enjoy the pain and suffering that comes with it. They have a name for those type of people. I personally enjoy nonshop talk (that is not politics/religion)and I am not a troll. I am a person that enjoys to select only those areas of the site that interest me (woodworking). I have self control and will power. And, I also have faith that the way I think is the right way. Get on board guys…..

I post drumming issues in the drum forums (Vdrums or DTXpression).
I post photographing issues in photography forums (dpreview).
I post military issues in military sites (Defensetech).
I post news related issues at news sites (CNN, Foxnews, etc.)

;)

-- Rob-Yorktown "Shop's still not done, Tools are bought, Wood is bought, need to find time to start a project.."

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DKV

3187 posts in 1192 days


#22 posted 07-30-2012 04:46 AM

Way to go Rob. I post nonshop talk in the nonshop talk forum. And, I do it with no pain and suffering.

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

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MsDebbieP

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#23 posted 07-30-2012 09:49 AM

we shouldn’t have to keep any section of the site “invisible”. Everything posted should be respectful to/of everyone.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (https://www.facebook.com/DebbiePribeleENJOConsultant)

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Simon2822

69 posts in 1102 days


#24 posted 07-30-2012 11:42 AM

The non-shop talk forum should be for “WOODWORKERS” to talk about non woodworking topics. If anything should be stopped then it should be “NON WOODWORKERS” using any forum

Other than that, if you don’t like to or want to read it, don’t read it

-- Failure is always an option

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doughan

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#25 posted 07-30-2012 01:05 PM

so you decided to make it 10 of 21 ???congratulations

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ITnerd

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#26 posted 07-30-2012 01:26 PM

Debbie, we may disagree on what is respectful.

In a quick scan of NST, I see political posts with ‘Stupid’ in the title, others with CAPS (which represent yelling in my understanding of the internet), one regarding another members sack or lack thereof – which I’m pretty sure isn’t table talk, and some which allude to the stupidity of americans and thier beliefs.

I personally don’t find these respectful.

I stand by this request – if these are appropriate forum topics for you & others, thats great. They do not interest me, and I don’t find them appropriate for a community centered on woodworking. I’m not sure I know what community they would be appropriate in, but thats another discussion.

If we acknowledged some are offensive enough to provide a header masking option, why not take the next step and offer an option to hide them completely?

Thanks for being willing to have a dialogue about it.

-- Chris @ Atlanta - JGM - Occam's razor tells us that when you hear hoofs, think horses not zebras.

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CL810

2111 posts in 1676 days


#27 posted 07-30-2012 02:49 PM

I agree with those who have expressed the sentiment that if you don’t like certain subjects just ignore them. That is what I’m suggesting we be able to do. Completely ignore them. By being able to select the forums we want to see, we could see a page full of forum topics we want to follow versus sifting through all the forum topics to find the ones we’d like to see. This feature would not target anyone forum over others but allow lumberjocks to focus on just those forums they are interested in. If you want all or just a few, it doesn’t matter which ones.

doughan: This post was made in the site feedback forum and I believe that made it very much on topic. Site feedback may not be of interest to many lumberjocks and I support this change so they can filter out such posts.

-- "It's amazing how much can go wrong when you think you know what you're doing."

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higtron

196 posts in 1365 days


#28 posted 07-30-2012 03:53 PM

I’ve been a member for going on 2 yrs, and I used to watch the forum daily in my opinion the off topic posts have increased dramaticly now I bet I watch the forum maybe once a week. This is directly because of off topic posts all that crap doesn’t interest me I’m interested in peoples take on WW, creativeness, and problem solveing so it sounds like LJs plans on just continueing with this situation I find that sad, it was fun while it lasted. I think if this came to a vote off topic would either go away from the general forum or go away completely, I vote for the latter.

-- If I cut it too short I can scab a piece on, but if it's too long what do I do?

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DKV

3187 posts in 1192 days


#29 posted 07-30-2012 04:24 PM

Your post does not make sense (to me). If you were truly interested in the WW sections and posts then why quit just because of nonshop talk? Continue reading the WW posts and consider yourself lucky that we have such a great WW site to go to. I’ve been to all of them and this one is by far the best. Just remember this higtron, I am seldom wrong. Trust me on this… Why do you folks always want to censor what you don’t like? Live and let live…

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

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Raymond Thomas

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#30 posted 07-30-2012 05:01 PM

You can always hide the majority of OT by clicking on the “Go to Pulse Page” and then select the “show the off-topic titles” this will turn it to “Hide the off-topic titles”. It will hide the vast majority of the OT titles but not all.

-- Raymond, Charlotte, NC -------- Demonstrate the difference!

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moke

518 posts in 1464 days


#31 posted 07-30-2012 05:06 PM

Rick-Torqnut—
Thank you for pointing that out—it seems to work well
Mike

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Doss

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#32 posted 07-30-2012 06:38 PM

we shouldn’t have to keep any section of the site “invisible”. Everything posted should be respectful to/of everyone.MsDebbieP

I disagree (but with an aside). You shouldn’t, but just look at what’s happening right now. You can’t tell me none of the moderators notice the growing discontent.

In a quick scan of NST, I see political posts with ‘Stupid’ in the title, others with CAPS (which represent yelling in my understanding of the internet), one regarding another members sack or lack thereof – which I’m pretty sure isn’t table talk, and some which allude to the stupidity of americans and thier beliefs.

I personally don’t find these respectful.ITnerd

I agree.

We have tried and implemented a variety of methods for accessing the different components of the site. MsDebbieP

Well, according to some of the feedback and recent topic threads, this is not working. It is probably time to look for a new solution. As a software engineer, I think this could be implemented in any number of simple ways interface-wise (which may require some complex handling, but nothing difficult for an experienced developer of forums or possibly Rails).

As a former site moderator and admin myself, I find the lack of moderation on here a little disconcerting. Sure, you don’t want to outright censor people, but maybe the NST should be focused more on topics that are at least close to woodworking (or far less controversial). Lay some ground rules out. This political | religious | personal attack stuff is just out of line with the site. It’s like having a forum dedicated to photography and your top threads are about “big block Chevys” and “Which stereo receiver for $500 sounds the best”. A site that tries to be everything to everyone is a site that will almost be sure to make everyone angry or disappointed in some way… a jack of all trades deal.

While some want an opt-out of NST, I would like an opt-in to NST. The growing response from those that enjoy posting OT NST is “just ignore it if you don’t like it.” That’s what I’m trying to do… ignore it entirely by removing it completely from my view. I don’t care if they keep posting OT NST if I can’t see it. Go to town. Write a book about it. It won’t matter if I can’t see it so it won’t bother me. The default view for me is the Forums tab. If you look at your site’s hotspots, I’d be interested to see how many people click Forums compared to Pulse. My guess, not nearly as many click Pulse (I could be wrong, but I doubt it).

I know these OT NST threads drive up your traffic (on all related metrics) and probably helps with advertisers, but the group of us that do not like them is growing. And with that growth, you’re going to hear more complaints.

All just my opinions and observations. Take them how you wish.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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Remedyman

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#33 posted 07-30-2012 07:58 PM

I have to say, I find it kind of funny. Everyone says I want to be able to block it so I can ignore it. They don’t seem to understand the difference.

I think it is about personal responsibility here. Give name callers a warning, then a short term ban, then a permanent ban.

Allow OT conversation. No need to block it. Just like when you go into a wood shop, people talk about stuff besides wood. I get more annoyed with the whinny chains like this than I do the other OT conversation. I read this one because I am starting to find them entertaining and it helps me learn who I want to talk to.

But then, I have been told I am VERY patient. Maybe that is the problem, other people just aren’t patient enough.

-- As long as our customers are happy, we have done a good job. Even if we are our own customer.

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DKV

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#34 posted 07-30-2012 08:07 PM

+1

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

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CL810

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#35 posted 07-30-2012 08:40 PM

I’m curious why anyone would care if I could filter out certain forums. Would it bother anyone if I never looked at the Finishing forum? Why do some of the posters in this discussion care if Lumberjocks implemented a feature that enabled members to choose which forums are displayed on their screen? If I filter a forum so it’s not displayed why should anyone care but maybe the site owners?

If I filter out the finishing forum it does not impact any other lumberjock. If you wouldn’t want to use that feature fine, but again, why would you care if I did??

-- "It's amazing how much can go wrong when you think you know what you're doing."

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ITnerd

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#36 posted 07-30-2012 09:42 PM

DKV, I define censorship as the act of one person determining what another person or persons can see. In the case of this request, we’re asking for the right to ‘opt-out’ of certain parts of the site that don’t interest us. This would be a user by user choice, so I don’t feel its a case of censorship.

Remedyman, I’m not sure how the suggestion put forth here would prevent you from enjoying LJ’s in the way you see fit. I also don’t understand the block vs ignore statement you made.

I echo CL810s question – why is there such resistance to an option that you could choose to not use? If you find NST or Hand Tools or Underwater Basketweaving to be valuable, do not check the box ‘Hide this forum from recent posts lists & pulse’. If you do not find it valuable, check the box.

Although I can promise you my Underwater Basketweaving posts are quite scintillating, and you would not want to miss those.

-- Chris @ Atlanta - JGM - Occam's razor tells us that when you hear hoofs, think horses not zebras.

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DKV

3187 posts in 1192 days


#37 posted 07-30-2012 09:53 PM

I am not against any method that would allow people to “not see” the nonshop posts. That way they can focus entirely on the other forums. However, when some folks talk about restricting politics/religious discussions then that is most definitely censorship. I am not against a technological solution. I am against a censorship solution. I am sorry if I made you think otherwise.

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

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Doss

779 posts in 952 days


#38 posted 07-31-2012 04:24 PM

It seems we are reaching a consensus. Let the users filter out forums they don’t want to see.

That way, some of us can avoid the OT NST forums altogether while some can avoid the Jigs and Fixtures forum or whatever.

Agreed?

But DVK, I disagree that removing those topics is censorship. This is a private business and they can choose to not let you have those discussions on their site if they want to. You’re not stopping those people from saying what they want. You’re just stopping them from saying it here.

While I would remove them myself, I know a lot of people like to participate on those posts here so many people could possibly be upset. To each their own though, I wouldn’t want to take away from others enjoying this site because of my lack of interest.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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Remedyman

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#39 posted 07-31-2012 04:51 PM

For clarity’s sake, I am not against offering the option. I laugh at the people that are pushing it like they have some influence. It is still censorship, it is just a freedom that they have. If they wish to censor it, I wouldn’t complain. If they wish to perform the effort to allow us to block parts of the site, I won’t complain about that either.

And for the big explanation, ignoring something requires it to be available. Blocking something means it isn’t available. Once you block it, you no longer are able to ignore it.

-- As long as our customers are happy, we have done a good job. Even if we are our own customer.

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

10044 posts in 1306 days


#40 posted 07-31-2012 05:15 PM

CL810 said: I’m curious why anyone would care if I could filter out certain forums. Would it bother anyone if I never looked at the Finishing forum? Why do some of the posters in this discussion care if Lumberjocks implemented a feature that enabled members to choose which forums are displayed on their screen? If I filter a forum so it’s not displayed why should anyone care but maybe the site owners?

If I filter out the finishing forum it does not impact any other lumberjock. If you wouldn’t want to use that feature fine, but again, why would you care if I did??

+1. Let me choose to eliminate forums from my view. LJs will still have the right to post anything they want, and I can exercise features within LJs to totally ignore them.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive

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DrDirt

2499 posts in 2430 days


#41 posted 07-31-2012 05:43 PM

The tone that has been brewing on this and many other sites – has little to do with a lack of moderation, and a lot to do with the economy.

Several years ago there wasn’t 16% real unemployment.
Businesses are closing in both major metropolitan areas and small towns.

While this is indeed a woodworking site, people are going to talk about and ARGUE about what is weighing on their minds these days. Some are more concerned with finding a new job, than how to sharpen a handplane.

I see it getting worse through the election, with more finger pointing, as even those with seemingly solid jobs, feel the wolf breathing down their necks. And the Jocks in Spain, Greece, Portugal and other parts of the Eurozone are feeling it too. Peugeot is going under, and asking for bailouts. and a Debt crisis almost everywhere. Cities are going bankrupt.

There are trolls everywhere, but when times are tough… it is much easier to get sucked into these pissing matches.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

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KnickKnack

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#42 posted 07-31-2012 06:21 PM

…has little to do with a lack of moderation, and a lot to do with the economy

If that’s true, and there’s certainly at least a grain of truth there, then we’re in for a jolly rough ride in the coming months, possibly years!

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

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DrDirt

2499 posts in 2430 days


#43 posted 07-31-2012 06:50 PM

KnickKnack that is what I am afraid of.

People talk about what is they are worrying about, health, job, can they afford college tuition for their kids, is there any hope their kids can find jobs.

-- "If we did all the things we are capable of doing, we would literally astonish ourselves." Edison

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MsDebbieP

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#44 posted 08-01-2012 10:57 AM

as I stated recently, we are looking at the issue.
In the meantime – we ask that people “up” their self-monitoring. Please only post in a civil manner.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (https://www.facebook.com/DebbiePribeleENJOConsultant)

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ctregan

7 posts in 904 days


#45 posted 08-02-2012 12:55 AM

I am new to LJ. The site looked like a cool place until I started to read some of the political posts. Now I am a little freaked out. Kind of like eating at a nice restaurant, then using the bathroom and finding its a disgusting mess.

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Doss

779 posts in 952 days


#46 posted 08-02-2012 04:27 AM

ctregan, don’t be freaked out. There are plenty of good people on here with plenty of advice to give.

You just have to steer clear of the NST. People think because they have the right to speak their mind about politics that someone actually cares what they have to say.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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bandit571

7145 posts in 1371 days


#47 posted 08-02-2012 04:37 AM

There is a sign posted on my toolbox at work:

Just because YOU have the right to remain stupid, it does not mean you have the right to abuse it.


A second sign, also on my roll-around toolbox:

IF I wanted to listen to somebody bitch, moan, and complain all the time, I would have stayed home.

Third sign, on same toolbox

There is no job we have to do so fast, that we will think of SAFETY last.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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