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View Everythinggoes's profile

Newby needs help getting my new (used) jointer fixed

by Everythinggoes
posted 06-30-2012 01:34 AM


16 replies so far

View Peter Oxley's profile

Peter Oxley

1426 posts in 2532 days


#1 posted 06-30-2012 02:07 AM

Nathan – Doesn’t sound good. Any chance you could put up a photo or two? It might be something a machine shop could repair and mill flat.

-- http://www.peteroxley.com -- http://north40studios.etsy.com --

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5472 posts in 2033 days


#2 posted 06-30-2012 02:14 AM

IIRC, that jointer was made by Steel City/Orion. Like Peter, I was thinking a pic would help too….

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

506 posts in 856 days


#3 posted 06-30-2012 02:48 AM

It can be welded, but might not need to be.. without a picture it’s a crap shoot trying to guess a fix.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View Everythinggoes's profile

Everythinggoes

8 posts in 815 days


#4 posted 06-30-2012 03:38 PM

Thanks for your feedback, I will take a photo and try to post it.
-Nathan

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Everythinggoes

8 posts in 815 days


#5 posted 06-30-2012 04:58 PM

OK, here are the photos. I hope they read well. Anyway, as you can see, the cracked rail is on the right side and is about 2” long up from the bottom of the right infeed table rail. You can see it is bent slightly in but still attached. The lower right gib adjustment screw seems to have applied enough pressure to have pushed/broken this section of rail.

Does this look fixable? It was origionally about 1/16” out of adjustment between the lower and upper feed table (in tilt) but each of the tables seem flat and unwarped to my eyes.

If I shim it well and don’t have a strong positive lower gib bolt attachement, will that work? I might be able to tap a new gib adjustment screw hight up where the rail isn’t broken but I don’t know if that will give me enough leverage to get an accurate adjustment.

If it is going to cost a lot to fix it, I will probably scrap it and save up for a new one but I have a job I wanted to use it for now.

Thanks for your feedback.

-Nathan

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

506 posts in 856 days


#6 posted 06-30-2012 05:41 PM

Looks like you should be able to get it working without too much fuss depending on how you plan on using it.. I rarely change the depth of cut on my jointer, so I’d set it up to do somewhere around a 1/16” or less of a cut and leave it there. Set the tables up so they are aligned properly (shimming if necessary), lock everything down and use it as is. Depending on how much movement is present on that way, I might give it a good tack weld on the end and underneath where it doesn’t effect the way or the table movement. But that would depend entirely on how much ‘slop’ it injects to its operation and might not be necessary at all.

If it’s really bad and moves around a lot, then you might need to get more aggressive.. weld it up and grind it back to proper alignment if required. Welding cast iron is not that difficult. Some would recommend brazing or arc welding with various specific rods, but I’ve fixed many a cast iron part with my trusty Miller MIG wire feeder just fine. I wouldn’t give up on it just yet.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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Everythinggoes

8 posts in 815 days


#7 posted 06-30-2012 05:55 PM

Hi Brad,

Thanks for the quick response and detailed feedback. That is great to hear that I should not give up on it yet.

The table was really sturdy (no play) before I took it off, I just wanted to be able to fine tune it.

I have a MIG welder and will tack weld the back and end of the split piece without welding inside the groove and see if that stabalized it. If not, I can always grind them off.

I was hoping to be able to go between jointing and rabbiting but if I need to set this machine up just for jointing at 1/16” that will be fine – at least I can use it.

I will go to my local auto-parts store and see if they have shim stock and get her all level and flat and tightened down so there is no play.

I still don’t quiet get how gibs work but will play with it until she is leve and tight..

Thanks so much,

-Nathan

View LukieB's profile

LukieB

921 posts in 987 days


#8 posted 06-30-2012 06:01 PM

Nathan, if you can find your model number, I would check out ereplacementparts.com I’ve had really good luck finding parts for all kinds of tools there…even a new motor for my 14 year old Cambell Hausfeld compressor!

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/craftsman-jointer-planer-parts-c-158286_160101.html

Good Luck!

-- Lucas, "Someday woodworks will be my real job, until then, there's this http://www.melbrownfarmsupply.com"

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1017 posts in 944 days


#9 posted 06-30-2012 06:13 PM

If that’s machined cast iron, just welding it may simply not work unless you know how to weld cast. I was a millright for many years and when we welded cast, it had to be heated in an oven to get the whole piece hot, then you welded it hot, and put it back in the oven to cool slowly. An inexperienced millright, welding cast iron for the first time would often curse and swear as he watched the weld cracking a bit behind where his bead was going down. :)

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

506 posts in 856 days


#10 posted 06-30-2012 06:20 PM

If it was solid before then you should be good to go. A tack weld or three to keep that part from moving any more would probably be a good move. As for rabbiting on a jointer.. too much of a PITA for me! There are faster and easier ways to accomplish the same results, so my jointer is just used for.. well.. jointing! You never know though, you might find that yours is solid enough to easily adjust the depth of cut without any problems once you get it all set up and aligned.

Also, the tables on my jointer were out of plane slightly and needed shimming to get it up to snuff. I found that aluminum soda cans make suitable shim stock and don’t cost anything. A typical Pepsi can is 0.004” thick and works well for the task. At the very least, it will give you an idea of what thickness you need should you want to go with some real shim stock later on.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View Everythinggoes's profile

Everythinggoes

8 posts in 815 days


#11 posted 06-30-2012 07:48 PM

Thanks for the post on ereplacement parts. I stumbled on their site last night in desperation and it looks to be the same partlist that Sears has – hence no base avaiable.

Things are starting to make sense. Now I see that the bent rail is raised up and that is probably why the table was 1/16” high on the infeed end (as opposed to the blade end of the infeed table).

Brad, thanks for the comments on the soda can – I will try that first. Maybe I will use my table saw for rabbiting instead (or make a router table).

Since the cracked party is raised, I am going to attempt to stabalize it with some MIG tack welds then take my 4” angle grinder and grind the raised part down so it is at least level with the rest of the rail. If I go more, I will try and shim back up.

I should have listened to my mentor when he told me to never by used tools.

If anyone has any other ideas – fire away.

If it turns out that I runin it – I will put it up for parts and save for a new machine.

Thanks,

Nathan

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

1186 posts in 954 days


#12 posted 06-30-2012 07:59 PM

Mig welding cast iron? I didn’t think that was really possible. If the crack stops at a point you can drill a small hole at the end of it and that will prevent it from spreading. I would also try some JB Weld. I think if it worked fine before with the crack it will be fine again with the crack. Or if Steel City made that unit try contacting them for replacement parts.

View Everythinggoes's profile

Everythinggoes

8 posts in 815 days


#13 posted 06-30-2012 08:13 PM

The JB weld is a good idea too. I would probably have to break it off first to do that. Maybe drill a stop-hole and then break it off.
If I am going to grind the rail down, I will need to stabilize the rail somehow first (either welding or JB weld) because it will probably break when I start to grind it.
I am feeling better that even though it wasn’t lined up propery – I could probably get her back together and in solid shape to do 1/16” cutting. I won’t know until I get the bent part dressed and try to bolt her back together.

Thanks,

Nathan

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Everythinggoes

8 posts in 815 days


#14 posted 06-30-2012 08:14 PM

Thanks for the Steel City idea. I will call them on Tuesday when they are open again.
-Nathan

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

506 posts in 856 days


#15 posted 06-30-2012 09:04 PM

I should have listened to my mentor when he told me to never by used tools.

I wouldn’t listen to him if he says stuff like that! Older equipment is generally over-built and bullet proof, not like the new plastic and thin stamped steel disposable stuff sold today. You just happened to draw the short straw on yours this time.. which happens occasionally even on new stuff.

Mig welding cast iron? I didn’t think that was really possible.

Not only possible, but very common.. cracked cast iron engine blocks are repaired that way all the time. I’ve welded engine blocks, table saw tables, machine bases/stands and various other cast parts just fine. As long as you don’t heat it up too much (make small tacks and let it cool between them instead of using long beads) you should not have a problem. Here is an example of a jointer table top that I mig welded:

That just happens to be on my little ~300 pound 6” jointer that was built in 1954! Built like a tank, works as well or better than when it was made over 50 years ago and will probably continue doing so long after I’m gone. I would not even try going the JB weld route.. from experience, it just doesn’t hold up well at all.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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Everythinggoes

8 posts in 815 days


#16 posted 07-01-2012 02:39 PM

That is a cool photo, Brad. Thanks for posting. Ididn’t know you could weld cast-iron. I thought it was too – I don’t know – gritty or or to be able to weld.

For now, I liked the JB weld idea and decided to break the section off (wich didn’t take much force to do) and glue it down with JB weld. Tomorrow after it sets up, I will put everything back together and see it it holds. If it doesn’t, I may try the welding idea after I grind off all of the JB weld.

My sense is that since it was fairly tight to begin with, I should be ok.

Thanks to this site for giving me insight (and confidence) to work with what I have – I think I will be ok. I will followup with my results.

Oh, and if anyone has any links to adjusting infeed tables – please feel free to post. I have been reading Rick Peters book on Jointers but am still a little fuzzy on how the gibs are suppose to work.

Thanks,

Nathan

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