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View tyskkvinna's profile

Cutting Board Table

by tyskkvinna
posted 756 days ago


45 replies so far

View Andrew Betschman's profile

Andrew Betschman

284 posts in 1819 days


#1 posted 756 days ago

What sort of base is this going on?
At 5” thick you will be fine. No ply wood necessary.

-- Andrew, Ohio http://andrewmbetschman.com/

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

4744 posts in 1172 days


#2 posted 756 days ago

Let’s see, 100 inches is around 8 feet long. I would suggest some type of leg support around the perimeter.
The one in the picture is 10inches deep and is 24” x 18”. My friend has one similar and it weighs so much it’s incredible.

A base may be more appropriate to keep it from sagging.

View Viktor's profile

Viktor

447 posts in 2014 days


#3 posted 756 days ago

Am I reading it right: 100×50x5” maple butcher block?! That will be around 300 kg (700lb).
It will definitely need a solid apron underneath around the perimeter and maybe across the middle. You should not glue it to anything because a block this size will expand and contract quite a bit with moisture variation.

View adaughhetee's profile

adaughhetee

100 posts in 1279 days


#4 posted 756 days ago

A table that size could be very hard to move. At 44 pounds on average per cubic foot x 14.47 cubic feet = 637 pounds for the top alone. If its an option it may be more practical to use 3”thick with two rows of 5” around the perimeter as kind of a skirt. That would still give you the impression of a 5” top with out the weight (around 250lbs less if my math is correct) To move a 50” wide table through a doorway you will have to pick it up turn it on it’s side and maneuver it through the doorway. It would be a problem at around 650 pounds total unless you have very, very strong friends.

View bent's profile

bent

311 posts in 2265 days


#5 posted 756 days ago

that’s 174 bdft! it’s going to be a monster. i’m curious about this project now, please keep us updated.

View Chris 's profile

Chris

67 posts in 950 days


#6 posted 756 days ago

I agree you will not need a ply wood bottom.

-- Chris ~ Central Michigan

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#7 posted 756 days ago

Nope, it has to be 5 inches solid, this is not negotiable. :) The weight in and of itself is no big deal and neither is moving it. It’s going to a particular installation and the logistics of THAT have already been settled. I’m just asking about the stability of it.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View Jim Jakosh's profile

Jim Jakosh

11049 posts in 1701 days


#8 posted 756 days ago

If it is solidly glued, I see no need for a plywood bottom. That much wood may expand more than the plywood and be a problem to the plywood if they were glued together!

How will you machine the top? Will it fit on the CNC router table?
It will need a good frame to support all that weight!.........................Jim

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!! Variety is the Spice of Life!!

View KenBry's profile

KenBry

449 posts in 1043 days


#9 posted 756 days ago

Holy Moly, That’s going to be a Monster, I just built a 73” x 24” x 4” top and it is a beast to move around. Who on earth needs a table that size and wieght?

-- Ken, USAF MSgt, Ret.

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2094 posts in 784 days


#10 posted 756 days ago

You don’t want to glue the maple to the plywood if you use the latter. Plywood will not move (much) but the maple will. Given the weight of the maple, the plywood seems unlikely to do much anyhow unless you use really skookum plywood and lag it to the maple using slots instead of holes so they can move relative to one another.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#11 posted 756 days ago

How much do you think I can expect the maple to move? Would it be better to use epoxy to glue them up?

I want to layer the maple so I need to keep this as stable as possible.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View Rutager's profile

Rutager

27 posts in 899 days


#12 posted 756 days ago

Lis,

Since all the movement will be the same direction for all the pieces, I don’t think you’ll have any problem with it. If it will be used for food prep and get wet, use a waterproof glue like Titebond III. I would also cut your boards a little oversize and let them acclimate to your shop then take them to their final size.

Best,
Rutager

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#13 posted 756 days ago

The boards are super dry and the table won’t come into contact with food. It will be under glass. And never actually be a cutting board, it will just look like one.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View IrreverentJack's profile

IrreverentJack

724 posts in 1439 days


#14 posted 756 days ago

Lis, Is this going to be an end grain top? My thoughts would be to strengthen the top with internal threaded rod (tensioned) going lengthwise. Compressing the vertical joints in the end grain would give you more options supporting it. It sounds very interesting. Please keep us posted. -Jack

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#15 posted 756 days ago

No, I was going to have it be long-grain… end grain is kind of a pain for the tools I have. I have been considering putting it under tension as well. it’s something I’m still considering.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View BertFlores58's profile

BertFlores58

1644 posts in 1518 days


#16 posted 756 days ago

Hi Lis,
After reading all your bits and pieces above, I don’t think you need other things like plywood underneath but just glue them together with all the boards staggered and avoiding those joints in the middle concentration. Joining end to end is the worst scenario, so you have to rip the wood to smaller width otherwise wide boards can be joined in end to end using splines…. 5 inches thick will require 2 pieces of 1 inch spline each joint.
I am no longer amazed about the size. You had all your woodworks in exemplary size. Your Earth table speaks and now the roaring is coming with the chopping board. Take care.

-- Bert

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

4744 posts in 1172 days


#17 posted 756 days ago

This butcher block was about 30” x 48” x 2” thick maple, I think, and had 3/8 threaded rod width wise
and was abused and it only split at the ends due to neglect.

View dkg's profile

dkg

30 posts in 1681 days


#18 posted 756 days ago

If I am reading this correctly, you are planning on gluing Maple boards that are 5” deep and 100” long or maybe random lengths but the total is 100’? Assuming that is the procedure, I agree with Jim Jakosh and that you should not have any problem with the integrity of the finished piece as is. In the glue up process, you might consider gluing 3 pieces that total 50” in width and then glue the 3 pieces together. Titebond 2 is fine since this will not be exposed to water or the elements. When laminating the Maple boards eliminate as much cupping as possible by using cauls or shims between the body of the clamp and the wood. Movement in surface should not be an issue if the wood has been dried. What is the MC of the wood by the way? I do not see a need for using anything but glue to hold the table together. Look forward to seeing the finished piece.

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#19 posted 755 days ago

I am not sure what the MC is, but I know it’s dry. It was flooring, in the room I am working in, that was in installed in 1975 and removed last year. My experience with working with more of this wood is “super dry”. It’s not brittle in the slightest, however.

And no, I do not have 100” lengths… it will just be 100” wide. Actually I think I am going to go the other way, with the lengths going the 50”.. unless that would be a really bad idea.

Most of my lengths are 25 to 60” long and I intend to randomise them.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View sras's profile

sras

3777 posts in 1725 days


#20 posted 755 days ago

Here is a project using a similar layout. He mentions wood movement of up to 1”. His table is not as thick, but I would suggest on planning for a similar amount of movement. As long as the wood is allowed to move, you should be fine.

-- Steve - Impatience is Expensive

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#21 posted 755 days ago

Hmmm. I really need to limit the wood movement as much as possible. If it wasn’t apparent yet (based off of the work I do), this table top is going to be heavily carved into something.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View sras's profile

sras

3777 posts in 1725 days


#22 posted 755 days ago

I’m not sure how wood movement will be a problem if the surface is carved – but then again I am not aware of all the details. 1” over 8 feet is about 1%. Across 1” the change is 0.01”. And that is the change from season to season – over several months. The movement is slow and relatively small over small distances.

Smaller carvings are likely experiencing the same forces causing expansion and contraction, but the total distance is smaller.

Your project may see less movement as the table project I referenced is flatsawn material. Quartersawn grain orientation would reduce the effect. Hard maple likely moves less than the walnut in the example project.

-- Steve - Impatience is Expensive

View Roger's profile

Roger

14094 posts in 1400 days


#23 posted 755 days ago

All I can think to say is, Wow! I am speechless. Good luck with a beast like that.

-- Roger from KY. Work/Play/Travel Safe. Kentuk55@bellsouth.net

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

2437 posts in 947 days


#24 posted 755 days ago

You shouldn’t need plywood for the top. It will be a massive construction for sure and it will move width wise and thickness wise, but as long as you accommodate it in the construction of the legs and support frame, it will be a non-issue. Normally wood movement in the thickness of a table top is a non issue because you can’t tell if your table varies in thickness from one day to to next. and that movement is not constrained by any joinery. The only real concern here is the movement that will occur width wise and by allowing for it and planning for it in the joinery there shouldn’t be any issues even in table of this size.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View dkg's profile

dkg

30 posts in 1681 days


#25 posted 755 days ago

Lis,
What are the dimensions of the flooring? Possibly .75”thick x 2.5” wide x by random lengths.?

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#26 posted 755 days ago

.75” x 1.75” x random :) So three layers deep.

I’m thinking of steel legs for the base, which I imagine will let it breathe laterally if it needs. wondering if I should accommodate potential movement by having some kind of material span the length or not.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View dkg's profile

dkg

30 posts in 1681 days


#27 posted 755 days ago

How do you plan on gluing the boards up? What type of clamps do you have on hand? Do you have access to an 8” joiner or 6”? Belt sander? Sorry about all the questions.

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#28 posted 755 days ago

I have a bunch of bar clamps and I’m not opposed to buying new clamps to do the job.. Have been looking at this type of clamp too: http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2000321/WoodRiver-Clamping-System.aspx

I have a 6” jointer (and a 13” planer). Also have a table top belt sander. The most important tool I have in this regard is likely going to be the CNC gantry because I can flatten one entire side after gluing it together, and I can do it as a full glue up.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View dkg's profile

dkg

30 posts in 1681 days


#29 posted 755 days ago

OK. Sounds like you are set to go. This just a suggestion. I would take 7 pieces of flooring and laminate them into blocks of 5.25”wide x 1.75” deep x 50”, clamping every 8” or so. Before laminating the blocks, lightly run the pieces thru a belt sander at 80 grit so the glue has something to grab onto. Run the finished blocks thru the joiner to get a clean edge for joining the 3 blocks together. Don’t worry about cleaning any excess dried glue off. Clamp the 3 blocks of 5.25” x 1.75” x 50” You will now have 19 blocks that are approximately 5.25” x 5.25”x 50”. Clamp the 19 blocks with pipe clamps about 9’ long. Clamp every 12” or so. Check to make sure the glued up piece is perfectly flat. If not, use shims between the pipe and the wood to take any deflection out. When the glue is set(next day) you will have a massive piece of Maple that should not sag or noticeably move.

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

4744 posts in 1172 days


#30 posted 755 days ago

http://www.bowclamp.com

Maybe some bow clamps (cauls) to help with the glue up. F clamps work best with them.

View Alexandre's profile

Alexandre

1417 posts in 787 days


#31 posted 755 days ago

I have a idea.
Get a GIANT Hard maple log about 10 inches high, which is dry, remove all the bark, and shape it into a circle or square, put a finish on, and you get a VERY sturdy cutting surface which is like what the chinese do to chop cooked meat.

Something like ^^^
Probably pine could be better…

-- My terrible signature...

View DonnyD's profile

DonnyD

49 posts in 770 days


#32 posted 755 days ago

WoW I was going to post the same Q mine as to be 120” x48”x3” im thinking the alltread is a good idea and titebond111 or a glue with more open time what is the open time of titebond111

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#33 posted 755 days ago

Titebond has a pot time of more than half an hour I think. I used it to glue large sheets of plywood together and it worked just fine – never had things set up too early.

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View SASmith               's profile

SASmith

1543 posts in 1583 days


#34 posted 755 days ago

Keep your sub-assemblies small enough to deal with the open time of Titebond or use a slower setting glue.
Open time:
Titebond II 5 min.
Titebond III 10 min.
Titebond extend 15 min.

Here is a cutting board I made of small pieces laminated in length, thickness, and width.
Bigger cuttingboards can warp, so laminating in multiple directions will help to keep it stable. It won’t stop seasonal movement but will help to eliminate bowing, twisting and cupping.

-- Scott Smith, Southern Illinois

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#35 posted 755 days ago

Awesome. Aside from the slightly longer assembly times, is there any advantage (for me, for this) for using Titebond III over II?

Need more clamps….

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View dkg's profile

dkg

30 posts in 1681 days


#36 posted 755 days ago

Tite 3 is good for areas that moisture issues and it is more expensive. Tite 2 will work just fine

View SASmith               's profile

SASmith

1543 posts in 1583 days


#37 posted 755 days ago

Titebond 3 is waterproof.
Titebond 2 is water-resistant.
Gorilla polyurethane glue is waterproof with a longer open time than titebond.
You can get epoxy with an even longer open time.

-- Scott Smith, Southern Illinois

View sras's profile

sras

3777 posts in 1725 days


#38 posted 755 days ago

Always need more clamps!

-- Steve - Impatience is Expensive

View DonnyD's profile

DonnyD

49 posts in 770 days


#39 posted 755 days ago

i was planing on running all thread through maybe every 16 in or so thinking this would help alinement issues and use cnc to mill but idk let does this sound right O i think titebond makes a trim glue with loooong open time its thick and white i would go with tbIII

View dkg's profile

dkg

30 posts in 1681 days


#40 posted 755 days ago

Why use all thread? Don’t trust the glue?
Just curious

View tyskkvinna's profile

tyskkvinna

1308 posts in 1582 days


#41 posted 755 days ago

I think I am going to do it with glue only and if it looks like it needs the help I’ll add the all-thread. I’m going to go ahead with TB2, and do them in rows of 4-5 and then glue those rows together. I think a new blog series is going to start up…

-- Lis - Michigan - http://www.missmooseart.com - https://www.etsy.com/people/lisbokt

View IrreverentJack's profile

IrreverentJack

724 posts in 1439 days


#42 posted 755 days ago

TB2 has a lighter color joint than TB3.
DKG- I mentioned internal steel rods when I thought the top would be end grain.

View dkg's profile

dkg

30 posts in 1681 days


#43 posted 755 days ago

I look forward to seeing the project

View Loren's profile (online now)

Loren

7223 posts in 2243 days


#44 posted 755 days ago

You might consider scraping the jointed boards a bit hollow
lest the joints open up. With the grade of equipment you’re
doing this with I’m concerned that you’re getting in over
your head, but you’ll certainly learn a lot from the experience.

In commercial woodworking settings this sort of glue up would
probably be done using a wood welder.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View tbone's profile

tbone

256 posts in 2280 days


#45 posted 753 days ago

So…you ought to be showing us the completed project around Monday, right? Seriously, I was just looking at a few of the professional butcher block websites, and it seems that the larger ‘thick’ pieces—islands and tabletops—usually have all-thread reinforcements. (Not all the time, but usually)
Keep in mind that drilling for all-thread after assembly can be problematic for most woodworkers. I’m not saying you can’t do it—I’m just saying that it won’t be easy.
Good luck, and post those pictures Monday night.

-- Kinky Friedman on gay marriage: "They should have the right to be just as miserable as the rest of us."

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