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View xylophage's profile

Sarvodaya Export Should not be posting on LJ

by xylophage
posted 06-19-2012 02:39 PM


25 replies so far

View KnickKnack's profile

KnickKnack

992 posts in 2291 days


#1 posted 06-19-2012 02:48 PM

I’m with you on this – in the bin – I flagged their projects yesterday.
I made a few comments on their profile page – the reply was simple sales spiel.

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

View knothead's profile

knothead

155 posts in 2673 days


#2 posted 06-19-2012 02:50 PM

Aside from maybe pointing them out to the administrators for action I wouldn’t do anything- (This has gotten to be a large site and probably a little difficult to watch every item. )

If the owners of LJ site want to allow free advertisement in their forums so be it. Who knows maybe this bunch have paid for placing their products here but I doubt it.

I do tend to agree with you though, if you (the posters in question) stand to profit from sales after posting here then they should either pay for the posts or not post all together. Site administrators will decide.

-- So Much Wood - So Little Time! --

View AKSteve's profile

AKSteve

442 posts in 1028 days


#3 posted 06-19-2012 02:56 PM

I am with you this too. I don’t want to see advertisements in the projects page.

-- Steve - Wasilla, Alaska

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1529 posts in 1239 days


#4 posted 06-19-2012 03:06 PM

Well, here’s how dumb they are…did I actually think when I joined I would sell a wooden guitar to a bunch of woodworkers? NOT!!!
So if they think that we will buy their furniture, well that is their mistake. The moderators and owners of LJ will make the right decision. I say leave them alone, might just find a design I like and build one for myself…

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View xylophage's profile

xylophage

70 posts in 1259 days


#5 posted 06-19-2012 03:30 PM

Jonathan…If you look at there web site they bost about having 1.2% of a $100 billion market. Its obvious they are a large scale company. This is not some little shop sharing their signature line. Which I would have no problem with. And if your looking for Ideas from them visit their website, and browse the extensive catalogue.

-- D.A Winograsky

View KnickKnack's profile

KnickKnack

992 posts in 2291 days


#6 posted 06-19-2012 03:40 PM

They have 4 projects, so far. Not 1 of them even have a link to there website. It looks to me like there only sharing what they do. I have no problem with them.

If you look at their profile page you’ll see the commercial nature of what’s going on, and their attitude.
I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and pointed out some broken links on their web site. To 99.9% of the world (excepting large banks and airlines), and 100% of the population here, that would, I’m fairly sure, be regarded as helpful feedback. They responded with a sales pitch. When I pointed out that their response was somewhat inappropriate the response was ”Why are you looking my website when i am not posting those regular items here”

In my view allowing these posts, under these conditions, could well be a slippery slope – one day we’ll log on and the first 10 pages of projects will be Ikea’s latest range, Tectona, etc etc etc

-- "Do not speak – unless it improves on silence." --- "Following the rules and protecting the regulations is binding oneself without rope."

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1529 posts in 1239 days


#7 posted 06-19-2012 03:49 PM

KnickKnack, looks like you touched a nerve with them. If their stated purpose is to sell furniture, well like I said, they are really on the wrong venue. Some of the storefront guys may take some of the designs and knock them off, but I cannot imagine any of us actually buying or recommending these people.
Flag them and let LJ Admin sort it out.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1529 posts in 1239 days


#8 posted 06-19-2012 05:20 PM

Xylophage, I think what we have here, based on my time in China, is a little guy trying to make it big. Through a posting back to me his name is Ramesh Balara, and it is apparent through his postings he is doing all this mostly by hand, with few tools, probably in a poorly equipped shop. I don’t mean empty, I mean snake infested, dirt floor poor. He might be part of a co-op, where dirt poor people have a few tools each and make what they can. He may be the manager of the co-op. By the way, this is the Go Fish store concept in this country, www.shopgofish.com. Gives an outlet to people in 3rd world countries to sell their wares.

In any case, here are my clues to the givaway.
He reads English, but like most Asians and Indians, cannot think very well in English, so his written word is poor. He does, however, totally understand what you write.
The three piece table looked like it was built in some kind of converted area with a dirt floor, and you can see a fairly large mill of some sort in the background, and that was about it. Probably limited power, mill might be on generator power, lots of hand tools, not even proper sanding equipment to finish off what should have been a stunner of a table. Beautiful wood, though. Funny how we would give almost anything for a truckload of that wood, and he would give almost anything for one of our large power tools.
In one picture his legs are seen, and the pants, whooo boy, have I seen a lot of those pants. They are the choice for working men just about everywhere in the Asian area, since they look like Levi’s but are actually a cheap rayon pant that does hold up pretty well but costs next to nothing.
He might be the builder, he might be the warehouse manager for the co-op, since the one table picture was obviously taken in a typical Asian furniture shipping warehouse, fully wrapped pieces, ready to be loaded into shipping containers. No pallets. Pallets take up room. They would load the containers by hand.
On the table with the sloppy joints, shame but pretty normal. They are cutting it all probably on an old table saw, and one person cuts the grooves in the top frame for the cross slats, another person cuts the sides of the joints for the top slats on the same saw, putting it through vertically but the blade was too high. Another might be assembling it. Too bad, put it together anyway. The nail in each slat and the bolts tell me they have limited glue – glue is expensive, nails are not.
He talks about spirit based lacquer, probably meaning he is mixing his own. From local chemicals he can get cheaply, where finished product is expensive. It looked more like a wax finish on that sideboard.

They will get better, but not if they keep getting chewed up by us. They pose no threat to our work, it will be sold probably in island areas South of them, somewhere on the Indonesian “ring of fire”, where poor craftsmanship is allowed in “island condos” that Europeans and Americans alike like to visit.
Of special note were his comments on how to router the front of the drawers with the slanted edges. We would never do that with a hand-held router, you could kill yourself and keeping a straight line would be especially hard at that angle. I give him chops for keeping that router straight! We would use a router table maybe, or a special jig for a tablesaw, and he doesn’t have the jig or table.

I think that wraps it up.
I have a bit of an affinity for these folks – they have a lot of disadvantages, and little or nowhere to sell their stuff. We are blessed with all our Powermatics, Grizzly’s, Rikons and all the rest, and I believe wrong for knocking his effort. He would probably give real teeth for a 14” Powermatic bandsaw. See if you could build that sideboard with a hand router, a log mill, an old table saw and a dirt floor with no lighting…

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Ramesh Balara's profile

Ramesh Balara

44 posts in 893 days


#9 posted 06-19-2012 06:10 PM

I am just sharing the items which are under evaluation process which means they are under trial process which means they can have errors my idea was that if this forum is really of woodworkers they will definitely try to get get the idea and will ask about it or may be they can tell where i am doing wrong or what can be done for better ..i just came here to share those items..
but sorry to say this forum found to be like other forums where you find everything except craftsmanship and real woodworking people who have a vision and creative mind …
Actually we are looking a forum where people discus mainly about craftsmanship and new ideas
we are not here to sell products This is the reason why i am not posting the items we are selling..
http://www.toboc.com/Sarvodaya-Export/599032-Exporter-CompanyTradeleads.aspx
if i have to sell i will post links like above we are doing…

-- Ramesh Balara

View Ramesh Balara's profile

Ramesh Balara

44 posts in 893 days


#10 posted 06-19-2012 06:10 PM

@Tennessee…
NOTE THAT WE MAKE ITEMS FOR SHOWROOMS FOR WWW.ARTEMANO.CA THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY 22000USD
PEOPLE AND SHOWROOM OWNER’S FROM YOUR PLACE COME TO US AND JUST LIKE BEGGARS TRY TO ASK FOR LOWERING PRICE AND DISCOUNT WITH NONSENSE REASONS…
REGARDING FURNITURE MACHINES WE DO HAVE the highest quality woodworking machines.
FOR YOU KIND INFORMATION IN INDIA CONTAINER IS STUFFED BY HANDS ONLY …YOUR WORDS SAY YOU WERE JUST SOME KIND OF FORWARDER OR SHIPPING LINE AGENT WATCHING THE SHIPMENTS..
WORKERS OR CARPENTERS AND LABORS ARE POOR ONLY WHO WORK IN OUR FACTORY / INDUSTRY ON OUR DIRECTIONS..WE DO HAVE MACHINES AND REASON WHY WE ARE STILL HOLD OUR POSITION IN MANUFACTURING AND EXPORTING

BY THE WAY BY QUALIFICATION I AM… B.E ( BACHELOR OF ENGINEERING) IN INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY…GOT ADMISSION LETTER FROM CONCORDIA UNIVERSITY MONTREAL …I GUESS MORE EDUCATED THAN YOU ….

I CHOOSE HANDICRAFT BUSINESS AS WHEN I MA ALREADY BELONG TO MULTIMILLIONAIRE FAMILY THEN WHY TO GO FOR FEW THOUSAND $ JOB… SO I STARTED MY OWN INDUSTRY…

BY THE WAY WE ALREADY DOING GOOD BUSINESS NOW STARTING SHOWROOMS AND DISTRIBUTOR CENTER IN EUROPE..IN NEXT COMING YEARS

-- Ramesh Balara

View Ramesh Balara's profile

Ramesh Balara

44 posts in 893 days


#11 posted 06-19-2012 06:17 PM

I JUST CAME HERE FOR SENSIBLE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A VISION AND CREATIVE MIND WITH IDEAS ..WHEN EVER I AM POSTING THESE ITEMS ARE STILL BE MADE THEY ARE JUST IDEA CAN WORK OR HOW IT CAN BE DONE MORE BETTER…... PEOPLE WITH VISIONS WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM POSTING… EVEN A BUYER CAN UNDERSTANDS WHAT I AM POSTING…

IN TIME I WILL NOT BE POSTING FOR I FOUND ONLY BLOCK HEADS LIKE OTHER FORUMS..WHO EXPLAIN THEMSELVES AS CRAFTSMAN BUT ARE NOTHING MORE PEOPLE LIVING IN ILLUSION AND DUMB HEADS…

-- Ramesh Balara

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1529 posts in 1239 days


#12 posted 06-19-2012 06:38 PM

First off, Ramesh, slow down, I am not trying to insult you. Congratulations on your degree, but that degree doesn’t make you more educated than me, it only means you went to a Canadian University. I went to an American University.
Second, I came on this site with a simple line on the bottom of my postings with my website name, not the entire page from my website telling people how great my guitars are in my profile. You will not sell any furniture here. But if you are somewhat kind to the members, like most, you will learn techniques that can save you thousands of dollars in building your furniture. That is what this site is about, and that is why you are taking so much pressure. Don’t try to sell a lot of master woodworkers on your woodworking expertise. Don’t condemm these people, they know more about woodworking than you will ever forget. They also are not just from the US. We have members from all over the world.

And if Artemano owes you $22,000 USD, you picked the wrong company to do business with, did you not?
I was in the furniture business for about 6.5 years, and I learned that it is very competitive, very cut throat. You should already know this. I have been in manufacturing in the USA, Germany, Mexico and China for 29 years. So I know how a product should be made and how to sell it. Am I the smartest person? No, and I do not want to be. I do have common sense, and a good business sense. If Artemano has your furniture, and you have no money yet, I certainly hope you have a way to get the money.

By the way, if you are in India, kind of late to be up, is it not? Should be about 2:00AM there right now, depending on where you live.
Anyway, if you come here to ask about how to improve your furniture, you should realize that the people on this website will listen and give back, but not if you come in with a sales pitch everytime, acting like you are selling. This is the largest woodworking site of private woodworkers in the world. There is more knowledge here on wood and furniture than any other place in the world. I suggest you cool your jets a little and try to listen. Don’t try to sell wooden furniture to a woodworker. We will simply build your designs and sell it ourselves, if we choose. And a lot of us have shops that probably rival a good part of your factory.
Try again, as a pure woodworker, not as some sales guy from an Indian furniture comany.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Ramesh Balara's profile

Ramesh Balara

44 posts in 893 days


#13 posted 06-19-2012 06:56 PM

my first project was how it look when a Chinese style item is made in wood… AS I SAID ..THIS NOT NOT INTENDED FOR SELLING…TELL MY WHY A PERSON WILL SPEND 450 $ TO US WHEN HE CAN GET SAME ITEM IN PLY IN 180$ FROM CHINA…
THE RAW TABLE IN POSTED WAS LAST YEAR SOME THING SIMILAR WAS SEN TO YOU U.A.E BUYER AT
‘S COST I1000 $ COST MADE IN SAUR WOOD…IT’S FINAL FINISH COST IN US IS 4000$ ONLY….
MY PROJECT WITH ROSEWOOD SIDE BOARD WAS NEW IDEA DOSE THE DESIGN LOOKS GOOD OR NOT

MY TABLE PROJECT WAS MY OWN IDEA ….

WE DON’T MAKE PRODUCTS ON OUR WON IT DEPENDS WHAT OUR BUYER WANTS..THEIR DESIGNER SEND US PICTURES DRAWINGS THEN WE PRODUCE THEM AND EXPORT THEM…WE DON’T STOCK…

ITS ONLY ABOUT VISION….BY THE WAY BEFORE JUDGING ANYTHING COME OUT OF ILLUSION…

IN FORUMS SELLING CANT BE DONE…..HERE PEOPLE JUST DISCUSS ….BEFORE JOINING ANY FORUM NOTE THIS…
I WAS POSTING BECAUSE WHAT NEW CAN BE MADE JUST FOR PASSION. WE ARE MORE AFFECTED BY BOREDOM BECAUSE EVERY TIME OUR BUYER ASKS LIMITED ITEMS OR DESIGNS ..THE REAL CREATIVITY IS LOST BY THIS….

I AM JUST 30 YEARS OLD ALWAYS EAR TO DO SOMETHING NEW..THE ITEMS I SUPPOSE TO POST WHICH I WILL NOT…. WAS ITEMS WE WILL MAKE FOR OUR SHOWROOMS WE ARE ABOUT TO START IN WARSAW POLAND… JUST NEEDED THE DIFFERENT IDEAS WHAT I AM DOING WRONG OR HOW PIECE CAN BE MADE MORE BETTER…

-- Ramesh Balara

View Ramesh Balara's profile

Ramesh Balara

44 posts in 893 days


#14 posted 06-19-2012 07:03 PM

@Tennessee

ITEMS ARE KEPT IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT BECAUSE WITH MAN MADE SEASONING PLANTS WE CAN GET 5 TO 6 MOISTURE INDEX BUT WITH NATURAL SEASONING IT IS MORE PERFECT….
BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU ALWAYS CRY AND GO TO SHOWROOMS COMPLAINING THAT PARTICULAR TABLE IS SHOWING CRACKS AND WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING NATURE OF WOOD ASKS FOR REPLACEMENT…
THIS IN TURN BECAUSE OF NAME
” SARVODAYA EXPORT” AND OUR REPUTATION WE HAVE TO SEND REPLACEMENT TO BUYERS FOR FREE…
WE ARE HIGHLY WORKAHOLIC THIS IS WHY WE NEVER FEEL ALWAYS SELLING BUT TO MAKE OUR PRODUCT MORE BETTER…

-- Ramesh Balara

View Ramesh Balara's profile

Ramesh Balara

44 posts in 893 days


#15 posted 06-19-2012 07:04 PM

TO ALL

BEFORE JUDGE BETTER TO ASK WHAT A PERSON WANTS TO DO THEN COMMENT…..

-- Ramesh Balara

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1529 posts in 1239 days


#16 posted 06-19-2012 07:08 PM

Ok, now, do me a little favor. Take down the words on your Profile page and replace them with “I am looking to learn new designs from the world”, or something like that.
We don’t care if you have a furniture factory, a number of people on this site build furniture very successfully for a living. A LOT of them.
We care that you are in love with wood, and work wood, and the techniques you use in working with the wood. We don’t care about the selling, save the the one forum here, “Sweating for bucks through woodworking”.
If you post as Ramesh, 30 year old woodworker from India, you will be received much better.
We don’t care that you sold $22,000 USD of furniture to Artemano, we care about how you work that beautiful plank of mango, or teak. You have wood you can use that we can only dream about. How do you work with those exotics that we cannot get? How do you dry your wood? How you machine your wood. How you finish your wood. That is what we care about and want to know about.
Also, concerning machinery, we will talk about woodworking machinery all day long, and make suggestions for jigs and additional items that can be put on machines to make them better. We don’t care if you have kilometers of machines, only how you use them and what you do with them.

So that is what we are. And if you are interested in new items, pay close attention to the projects, but do not come across as a big deal production. We just don’t care, we are surrounded by big deal production. We care about the way things are made, new ways to work wood, new items out of wood, new tools, finishes, repairs, and so on.
That is what this site is all about.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Ramesh Balara's profile

Ramesh Balara

44 posts in 893 days


#17 posted 06-19-2012 07:12 PM

@Tennessee
it is 1.00 am in morning ..i work 18 hr a day…i am not the selling person i am owner…but i love wood this is reason i choose this line…in 6 years we stand with proud reason our work….
i don’t get enough time..
regarding profile ..about us ..if you felt that I AM SORRY ..IT WAS JUST A FORMAL . I WILL CHANGE THAT may be that will be solve this problem

-- Ramesh Balara

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1529 posts in 1239 days


#18 posted 06-19-2012 07:14 PM

Well, I tried… and it looks like he is rethinking!

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1529 posts in 1239 days


#19 posted 06-19-2012 07:29 PM

Good deal, Ramesh. And not a bad guess eh’? I was only off by one hour! Now go to bed and sleep!!

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1529 posts in 1239 days


#20 posted 06-19-2012 07:34 PM

I think so, Jonathan. Overworked, obviously. Glad I sent him what I did. Now, he is Ramesh from India, woodworker…making exotic furniture. We need those members.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Ramesh Balara's profile

Ramesh Balara

44 posts in 893 days


#21 posted 06-19-2012 07:37 PM

@Tennessee
whatever i am posting is not what i am producing in lot or going to be ..it is no good just waste of time..because if i am producing in bulk mistakes will be already noted by buyer…
in bulk production we produce as our buyer says…for example if someone want straight square leg dining table then he will give us design or choose form catalog…
IN THIS CASE WHERE IS FUN OR INTEREST….TOTAL BOREDOM NOTHING MORE…BUT NEW IDEA COMES IT EXPLAINS MISTAKES AND DEVELOPS INTEREST…PEOPLE HERE WORKS ARE NO DOUBT BETTER AT LEAST BY EXPERIENCE
this what i thought and joined the forum….i don’t get enough time to visit so i try to post what i am working on and visit any eye catching projects..today like your guitars …so i come online here 9.00 pm to 2.00 am then 2.00 am to 3.00 am ( i reply my buyer’s queries) then i got for sleep..from 6.00 am to 9.00 pm i go to industry taking care of my work which i do for my earning …

i hope now you understand why i am on flames…my every hour counts.. and i am wasting my time on replying uselessly on out of scope comments

-- Ramesh Balara

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1529 posts in 1239 days


#22 posted 06-19-2012 07:40 PM

Ok, that’s all very fine. But when you have a problem to solve with wood, do not be afraid to ask. You will get answers that might surprise you.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Ramesh Balara's profile

Ramesh Balara

44 posts in 893 days


#23 posted 06-19-2012 08:14 PM

@Tennessee

heartily thank you for understanding and offering kind and precious support..i will be happy to share my doubts..
..good night..

-- Ramesh Balara

View Everett1's profile

Everett1

208 posts in 1259 days


#24 posted 06-21-2012 09:33 PM

Ramesh,

I give you props for what you do. It’s impressive with what it looks like what little you have to work with (I make that statement totally according to your pictures).

Now, onto the real question… Can we figure out a way you can ship us some of that crazy exotic wood? That would be so sweet.

-- Ev in Framingham, MA

View Kittu's profile

Kittu

9 posts in 866 days


#25 posted 09-06-2012 03:48 AM

A bit late on this discussion. Im from India. Most likely Ramesh himself may not be involved in making the furniture as a craftsman. Shortage of good skills is a big problem in India. We do not value our craftsmen they are mostly lowly paid workers often dirt poor. Neither our socitey rewards craftsmanship nor sees it as a worthwhile pursuit. Most of the people involved in traditional crafts are hereditary. Due to loss of patronage the quality of work has suffered over the last few hundred years.

Now most craftsmen are there in their field because they have no other means of education. Educated Indians rarely get involved in something that requires hand skills. Business who use modern machinery are hampered by owners who know almost nothing of the craft and workers who refuse to use machinery properly. We have neither technical people who can make and maintain use the machines properly nor craftsmen who value the effort in taking care of the last details that really make a project stand out.

This is not to say there arent a lot of very gifted craftsmen. They turn out the most amazing variety of stuff from wood to metal to textiles but they never get enough to value their craft so they are never able to properly refine their skills.

Intervention by western educated elite has even stopped the traditional learning by children in home/community based business branding it all as child labor. The result is the children rarely go to school nor are able to learn their family profession and the few those who do go to school fare in terms of employment and finally fall back to their family profession which they never learnt properly.

I have seen helpful NGO’s trying to take out middle men like Ramesh out of the equation by giving slightly higher wages and getting stuff to be sold as “fair market” produce. The end result is the NGO and the retail shop makes many times more than what they paid the craftsman some times sales taxes add up to more than the cost of material and labor paid for the product.

Typically the carpenters belonged to a caste called ‘Vishwakarma Vadrangi ’.The first term is the super caste of craftsmen and vadrangi means carpenter. Wood carving is mainly done by muslim community based craftsmen(they do not belong to a caste but like a guild open only to close knit community) in Northern India and Kashmir.

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